Are We Using AI Wrong
AI is everywhere right now, writing posts, creating images, answering questions, and promising to save us time. But is it actually helping… or are we creating a whole new set of problems?
In this episode, I’m joined by AI educator Colette Mason to dig into the growing world of “AI slop”, low-quality, inaccurate, AI-generated content that’s flooding social media and beyond.
We explore the dangers of blindly trusting AI, from misinformation and privacy concerns to losing our own critical thinking and creativity. We also discuss where AI can genuinely help, where it absolutely shouldn’t replace human judgment, and how driving instructors can use it responsibly.
This isn’t an anti-AI episode.
Use AI as a tool, just don’t let it do your thinking for you.
Colette has also created a 'Privacy Pack', driving instructors, discounted to £1.50 for 50 people - access it here
And visit Clever Clogs AI here
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Transcript
The Instructor Podcast with Terry Cook talking.
Speaker B:With leaders, innovators, experts and game changers.
Speaker A:About what drives them.
Speaker A:Welcome to the Instructor Podcast.
Speaker A:This is the show that helps you become an even more awesome driving instructor and run a better driving school.
Speaker A:As always, I am your splendid host, Terry Cook.
Speaker A:I'm delighted to be here.
Speaker A:Even more delighted that you have chosen to listen because today I we are talking about the dangers of using AI.
Speaker A:AI has many benefits and we can see lots of instructors using it.
Speaker A:I don't think we necessarily talk about the negatives enough and I don't think people always realize what the dangers actually are.
Speaker A:So today I'm joined by someone who knows this stuff, Colette Mason.
Speaker A:Well, Colette has written a book on this very topic and you'll find a link to it in the show notes.
Speaker A:But it's a fascinating discussion today and she definitely made me say rethink my approach on a couple of things.
Speaker A:So hopefully you will do the same too.
Speaker A:But just before we get stuck in, I want to point you in the direction of the IPP membership, I.e.
Speaker A:The instructor performance and psychology membership.
Speaker A:If you are looking to improve your coaching, understand what client side learning actually is, or just generally become a better driving instructor, then we have got a wealth of content to help you do just that.
Speaker A:We've got some of the best brains in the business, some of the best brains outside of the business, and even my brain as well.
Speaker A:So head over to patreon.com forward/inventor or use the link in the show notes to get signed up today.
Speaker A:We've even got a one week free trial to get you started.
Speaker A:But for now, enjoy this show.
Speaker A:So we're now joined by the wonderful Colette Mason.
Speaker A:How we doing, Colette?
Speaker B:I'm very good, thank you, Terry.
Speaker B:Very good.
Speaker A:Excellent.
Speaker A:Delighted to have you on today, but I'm guessing that most of my listeners won't know who you are.
Speaker A:So do you want to just take a moment just to tell us a little bit about you?
Speaker B:I can do well.
Speaker B:I'm Colette Mason.
Speaker B:I'm.
Speaker B:And I'm a very nerdy person.
Speaker B:I've had a computer since I was 12, pretty much glued to me through my entire life and I've loved to technology.
Speaker B:I've done all sorts of different things over the years and helped people and I'm really interested in how people and computers kind of interact because I've been with people who want to hit computers with a hammer and hate them and people who are like 48 hours straight coding something up.
Speaker B:So I've seen all sorts of different people, and I find that aspect really interesting.
Speaker B:And that's.
Speaker B:That's kind of what I think about it.
Speaker A:And today we're here to talk about AI, I suppose, primarily the negatives, and I'm sure we'll offer a couple of positives as well.
Speaker A:But you literally wrote the book.
Speaker B:Yes, I did.
Speaker B:I want to rewrite it now because things have.
Speaker B:I thought I'd made it Evergreen, but things have moved on so quickly.
Speaker B:Even my stab at Evergreen didn't quite work.
Speaker B:And so I wrote a lot about how people can work with their bot because I saw them doing lots of really crazy things that were really unhelpful and they were getting frustrated.
Speaker B:And as somebody who loves tech, I don't like seeing somebody struggle.
Speaker B:Like, I wouldn't like seeing a pensioner struggle with heavy groceries.
Speaker B:I want to step in and help.
Speaker B:So I thought this book will help with that.
Speaker B:But since then, AIs changed quite a lot.
Speaker B:And it's gone from being quite useful, a bit like an Excel formula, into something that's got people with placards protesting the government in America, for instance.
Speaker B:So it's.
Speaker B:Whoa, that escalated quickly and it's been quite a wild ride since I wrote it.
Speaker A:Yeah, well, I will share a link to it in the show notes anyway.
Speaker A:But I will just say that I bought that book.
Speaker A:I used that book.
Speaker A:I found it good for two things.
Speaker A:So firstly, just a little bit of self praise for a second as I went from like, oh, I do that.
Speaker A:Oh, I do that.
Speaker A:There were a couple of things.
Speaker A:I'm like, oh, I'm doing something great.
Speaker A:But also it just taught me a different way to look at it.
Speaker A:It's like you train it so that it works for you rather than just dive in and hope for the best, which maybe someone will speak about.
Speaker A:6.
Speaker A:I was kind of thinking about to start this, this episode, because as I say, we're going to be talking about a lot of the negatives of AI, because I just see it everywhere as if it's the fix all for everything.
Speaker A:And a phrase that I hear a lot is the term AI Slop.
Speaker A:What do we mean by AI Slop?
Speaker B:AI Slop comes about because people are using AI the tool, and they've got wildly unrealistic expectations about what it can do.
Speaker B:It generates something and then they wave it through and give it to somebody else.
Speaker B:And it's not.
Speaker B:It's not accurate.
Speaker B:It's not like a calculator where you say, you know, two times two equals, and you always get four, you might get three plus one with AI or one less than five or four.
Speaker B:So you get different answers every time, every time you do it and people don't really check how useful that answer is and then they'll give it to somebody else or give it to their machine and it starts to snowball into this horrific mess.
Speaker B:And that's kind of the problem we have to think about.
Speaker B:Well, how much slop is tolerable.
Speaker B:If it's an early draft of something, you don't mind a bit of slop, but if it's a TED Talk and you had slop in your TED Talk, then you'd care quite a lot.
Speaker B:So you're having to decide, you know, all these different things about the quality of information which we didn't have to do before.
Speaker B:And it's a lot of unpaid labour and I think people get a bit resentful of the unpaid labor or just it getting it wrong all the time.
Speaker B:It's like Bart Simpson and home and you.
Speaker B:Why you little.
Speaker B:And it's like, why did you do it like that?
Speaker B:When I gave you all these PDFs, it was obvious, wasn't it?
Speaker B:And you didn't do it that way and people get a bit frustrated.
Speaker B:So there's a couple of things going on and I think, you know, in terms of like Google search now, if you get that horrific curated search thing coming up, which is just made up nonsense and it's kind of ruined something that was really good.
Speaker B:Google search used to be really good and now it's this sort of curated mess.
Speaker B:And you know, all these things munge together and it makes people dislike AI quite a lot.
Speaker A:I think that's probably my biggest issue of it, if I'm honest, is the inaccurate information.
Speaker A:Although I've got fair.
Speaker A:I'm going to say that's my biggest problem with it for lots of things today.
Speaker A:But it's that inaccurate information.
Speaker A:And just the other day I was very lazy.
Speaker A:All my ends up feeling very lazy.
Speaker A:Normally I would read a book or actually search properly, but I was lazy.
Speaker A:I think I actually went on Copilot and typed it in there to give me a list of all the monarchs, the English monarchs.
Speaker A:And when I was scanning through I realized that I think it was Queen Mary that had missed off.
Speaker A:And I'm like, well, if it's missed off Queen Mary, is there any others that I didn't notice?
Speaker A:And I think there were two more that I wouldn't have spotted.
Speaker A:So if I'd have been using that as a.
Speaker A:As A resource.
Speaker A:There was two there that I wouldn't have known were wrong.
Speaker A:So I'm curious, why doesn't it get a lot of stuff correct?
Speaker A:Because it seems to get a lot wrong.
Speaker A:Why is that incorrect come from?
Speaker B:Well, it's had lots of different training sources, so somebody who wrote it might have made a mistake.
Speaker B:It gets lots of information from Reddit in particular and Wikipedia.
Speaker B:So Wikipedia is going to be better quality than Reddit, but there's going to be mistakes in there.
Speaker B:It can also be overloaded.
Speaker B:If I asked you 40 questions, like mastermind, if I ask you loads of questions in a minute and a half, you're going to get a few wrong because there's a lot.
Speaker B:You having to process a lot of things and it just, it just drops the ball occasionally with its.
Speaker B:What's called its context window.
Speaker B:It just can't.
Speaker B:There's just too much being asked of it at once and it starts to drop the ball like a human would.
Speaker B:So that's a couple of places it makes assumptions, I've noticed recently.
Speaker B:It's filtering what it tells you, you know, so obviously I can't ask it how do I make some sort of chemical weapon?
Speaker B:It's going to say no, but it's saying no to more and more things and filtering bits out that might be dangerous and that's causing some missing parts in it as well.
Speaker B:And it's just, it's just because it's predictive.
Speaker B:It's just never built to be really robust.
Speaker B:It's not like an Excel formula that adds up those columns.
Speaker B:It's.
Speaker B:It's just freer than that.
Speaker B:And it is going to make mistakes like a human might.
Speaker A:So I want to give you some specific examples in a minute, I think.
Speaker A:But before we dive into that, I kind of ask you one of the.
Speaker A:I want to ask you the broad question of what are some of the problems that you're seeing with some of the biggest problems we're facing.
Speaker B:Do you think I'm going to have a pop at marketers?
Speaker B:I mean, I've been having.
Speaker B:I used to own marketing wanker.com I think back in the day, because I just got really annoyed one day and I registered it.
Speaker B:So marketers sort of saying it's going to do all these things, click a button and replace all that boring work and it'll be brilliant and you can have pina colada and no, it doesn't work like that.
Speaker B:We've all found out it doesn't work like that.
Speaker B:It's like, well, you did half of it and then you screwed up the other half.
Speaker B:So I think marketers tell IT people that can do things that it can't and because if you're not very good at computers, you can't smell the bullshit from the how it really works and you're desperate to find an answer.
Speaker B:You're working on your own in your own business and you're doing your accounts, you're doing your social media, you've got to see customers, you got to do invoices.
Speaker B:You just hope this thing is going to rescue you and it and it doesn't.
Speaker B:And the other problem is a big problem I see is like big corporations.
Speaker B:If you're a manager or a CEO of a company, you're sort of saying to it, should I open an office in Derbyshire?
Speaker B:How can I increase my market share?
Speaker B:You're asking these nice open ended questions.
Speaker B:It gives you a bunch of answers and you pick the one that feels the best.
Speaker B:And you've got a lot of freedom.
Speaker B:You're using your own brain with some suggestions to come up with the best outcome and that's great.
Speaker B:But if you're writing software, you haven't got that luxury.
Speaker B:What if your two options are something that's got a security hole in it and you have a Jaguar Land Rover instance and your company goes down?
Speaker B:Or does it actually write good code?
Speaker B:The consequences for more specific tasks are very big and I don't think people at board level understand those problems.
Speaker B:They just say use as much AI as you can.
Speaker B:If we use tons of tokens and we will, you know, that's the way to do it.
Speaker B:Half a million.
Speaker B:Half a million dollars.
Speaker B:Jensen Huang said spend half a million dollars on tokens and we'll be ahead for Nvidia.
Speaker B:And that's quite a lot of money and nobody's really seeing the results of that.
Speaker B:One company forgot to say, please cut my spend for the month and spent $500 million in a month on AI.
Speaker B:So if you've wasted your 20 quid subscription and ended up benched for a couple of hours and you went for a walk, then don't beat yourself up, you're actually doing quite well.
Speaker B:So I think that's these unrealistic expectations is the big problem.
Speaker B:And I think there's also some things are getting caught up in the crossfire.
Speaker B:As soon as people see AI, the red mist comes down.
Speaker B:There's an M dash in there.
Speaker B:Burn him.
Speaker B:You know, and that's not very helpful.
Speaker B:What if English isn't your first?
Speaker B:You know, English isn't your first language.
Speaker B:And you need.
Speaker B:You've used it to communicate or you've got dyslexia and you're sick of people giving you a hard time for your spelling.
Speaker B:And you think, right, I'm going to put it through there because it just gives my brain a rest a day.
Speaker B:And I think people get that.
Speaker B:That's another problem.
Speaker B:Some people use it and it's.
Speaker B:It was an enabler for them.
Speaker B:And the other thing is it actually does do some good things, like looking at crops in Africa.
Speaker B:There's one crop a bit like potatoes back in the day in Ireland.
Speaker B:It feeds two out of five people.
Speaker B:And if it gets diseased, that's a problem.
Speaker B:But it's difficult to work out how you cope with that disease.
Speaker B:So the farmer takes a photo, though.
Speaker B:It gets sent to somebody who understands these things.
Speaker B:The AI looks at the image, the expert in agriculture looks at it and then tells the farmer what to do.
Speaker B:Liver transplants is another example.
Speaker B:So if your liver's near its use by date, when it's been taken out of a body, AI can say if it's still safe to use.
Speaker B:And a surgeon can think, I want to use that liver and that can save somebody's life.
Speaker B:And I don't think you, you know, we've got to make sure that we don't throw the baby out with the bathwater, with the hatred.
Speaker B:Use it response.
Speaker B:It's like using a drill, you know, you don't drill through your tv, you know, just use it, use it sensibly to make holes in stuff and it's fine, you know, and don't, don't do what the marketers tell you and suck all your staff like Ford did, and then have to hire them back with your cap, you know, tail between your legs, you know, be responsible like you do in any power tool, you know, that's what I think.
Speaker A:And that's really interesting.
Speaker A:Like the medical example you gave there as well, with the liver.
Speaker A:It's like, I've read on that a little bit and tell me if I'm wrong with this, but the kind of principle is that AI is going to get it right more times than a human would, potentially get it right quicker, more than a human would.
Speaker A:But then you've also got the human there as backup as well as, like a second opinion.
Speaker A:Is that right?
Speaker B:Yeah, I think that's the best way to.
Speaker B:I think it's augmented intelligence is the way to get the best result rather than artificial intelligence, you know, because you still need the human in there to check what the blooming thing is doing.
Speaker B:But equally the AI can have your back.
Speaker B:It can look through a big, you know, two foot high stack of data that you just can't do and that's, that's its strength and it can really help in those circumstances.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Interestingly, you mentioned about the language there as well.
Speaker A:So I've got to put my own personal story now, which is my, my partner's Moldovan.
Speaker A:She speaks really good English.
Speaker A:But now and again there's somewhat that I'll, I'll text her, for example, she ain't got a clue because I've made my Yorkshire dialots come out and she'll go on chatgpt and what does this mean?
Speaker A:And I'm like, I don't even know what it means now.
Speaker A:Chat.
Speaker A:BT said it, I'm like, oh yeah, it does mean.
Speaker A:That makes sense.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:So it definitely does have its uses, but I want to kind of come onto a bit more, let's say our level, sort of a, more a local level, if you like.
Speaker A:So I think instructors tend to use it for three general things.
Speaker A:Obviously we can use it for all sorts, but the three primary things, we've got the, the content creation aspect, we've got the training themselves and using it to, to train others.
Speaker A:So I thought I might run through a few of those, if that's okay.
Speaker B:Yeah, certainly, if, if you look at.
Speaker A:The content creation, I think again, we can use it for all sorts.
Speaker A:But I'm thinking of three primary ones that I see instructors using it for.
Speaker A:One is like the social media posts, the, the text of the copy on social media posts.
Speaker A:Then we've got images that go alongside that social media post and make all things like emails and blogs and stuff like that.
Speaker A:So I suppose again, broad question, is there a danger using AI for that and if so, what is that danger?
Speaker B:I think using it for content creation is fairly safe.
Speaker B:You know, you've got the highway code you can check against, that's a good source of truth and you've got newspaper articles and you've probably built your avatar to make sure you created something for the young learner drivers to.
Speaker B:Not an older person, you know, so you've got some quite good guardrails there to make that work.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:And it's.
Speaker B:As long as it's safe information telling people to drive on the correct side of the road and stuff, then that's, that's pretty all right.
Speaker B:I don't see a problem with that, with things like emails.
Speaker B:I see a little bit more of a problem in that.
Speaker B:You've got to give Google access to your emails to be able to filter them, to say, oh, this is a new customer inquiry and that's somebody's birthday and, or they passed their test, I must say congratulations and send them an email.
Speaker B:So when it's monitoring your emails, of course it's got to read all of your emails to make a decision and it's got to read the email that came in, so that's somebody else.
Speaker B:And they probably, they may have not given you permission to share your stuff wildly and freely with Google because, you know, we don't really need, I mean, they say we won't use it for training the models, but the most valuable resource right now is real human information that hasn't been made by AI.
Speaker B:So I'm pretty sure they might have a good poke around there and just not tell anyone.
Speaker B:That's my speculation.
Speaker B:So there's, the more you get AI to help you with your tasks, the more it can spy on you in general.
Speaker B:That's not good.
Speaker B:It's starting to look at the speed you travel in your car using Google Maps and, you know, all sorts of things go on.
Speaker B:So there's a kind of a surveillance element to using AI that people should be, should be aware of, I think.
Speaker B:And what was the third, the third one you asked me about?
Speaker A:Blogs.
Speaker A:Blog posts.
Speaker B:Blog posts, yeah.
Speaker B:There's not, I think the problem there could be because there's so much backlash with AI.
Speaker B:If it doesn't sound like you, then it looks lazy and if it looks lazy then that you want somebody who's vigilant sat next to you in the driving seat.
Speaker B:When you're learning and there's other drivers out on the road, you don't, you know, you want to make sure that the instructor's looking after the person properly and paying attention and it kind of suggests that you don't care.
Speaker B:And that's, that's the big problem with it, I think.
Speaker B:And do we really need to read another beige thing about.
Speaker B:Crikey, it's such a long wait to get your test booked.
Speaker B:You know, do we really need to read another post on that?
Speaker B:Probably not.
Speaker B:Fake pictures of cars.
Speaker B:You know, what's the.
Speaker B:I'd rather see you, the driving instructor stood with a happy person who's just passed their test than some sort of Disney car thing.
Speaker B:Whatever you've done to be a thumb scroller, you know, don't think that's in your interest.
Speaker B:You're quite lucky.
Speaker B:It's a personal service and being personal now has got Real cachet and commercial power.
Speaker B:Because people, you know, they keep saying I miss real connections in my life.
Speaker B:I want to join a walking club or I want to bring my friends around for a meal.
Speaker B:Personal is actually quite a good strength now.
Speaker B:And commercially you shouldn't get rid of that, I don't think.
Speaker A:Well, you mentioned like the surveillance aspect there and I think I'd like to come back to that because I know that's a bit of a bugberry odds a minute but yes, just before we do, you said somewhat at the start of that.
Speaker A:It felt like you glossed over a little bit and it was talking about like the guardrails on stuff and fact checking and I think that's again, I'm, I think everyone does this, but I'm always talking about our industry specifically with this that so many people don't.
Speaker A:You know, I'm seeing pictures up there that have cars on the wrong side of the road or they're going around the roundabout the wrong way.
Speaker A:It's just, it's just false information, it's incorrect.
Speaker A:And I'm seeing posts written that, you know, I can tell that generated by AI and I'm seeing the people around say, you know, subscribe to my page.
Speaker A:This takes loads of time for me to correct my dozen.
Speaker A:You've asked them to write your force, it's taken 30 seconds, you've not checked it.
Speaker A:And there's information there that could genuinely cause a problem to someone on the road.
Speaker A:And as driving instructors are most of us, our primary goal is to try and reduce the number of people that die on the road.
Speaker A:But some of this stuff is actually running the risk of increasing it.
Speaker A:So that fact checking those guardrails, is that something that's missing a lot, do you think?
Speaker B:Yeah, and it takes a lot of work to police, to police it so that it might get a bit technical now.
Speaker B:But one, a good way to do it is to kind of use actual old school code with brackets and variables and all that stuff to kind of control the process.
Speaker B: small portion then and not a: Speaker B:You check the little bit and then you give it the next thing to do and you build it up in stages and put lots of QA and they call it rag, which is where one machine tests what another one's done.
Speaker B:But that takes a look, that takes a lot of effort and it's only really worth doing if you're doing 10,000 articles a year.
Speaker B:Let's say you're probably better off just going slow and doing it properly.
Speaker B:Especially if you're not.
Speaker B:Unless you've got an interest in it academically, intellectually to build this thing, then there isn't, there isn't really much point.
Speaker B:You bet.
Speaker B:It's just dictating because you can dictate at 120 words a minute, type at between 40 to 80 depending on if you're a two finger typer or not.
Speaker B:You might as well just dictate it and transcribe it to get the speed increase and then you've got the accuracy and a bit of the grind is gone.
Speaker B:And you can be confident that what you've made is useful.
Speaker B:So you don't always have to do it that way.
Speaker B:But you could build up a bank of principles that you must, you must never say this.
Speaker B:I like it when you use that, use this as a model example and you can give it those sort of give it some more things to aim for because it's always trying to please you.
Speaker B:So if you said if you made it look like this, then I'd be really quite happy.
Speaker B:It helps it do what you do what you want to a certain extent.
Speaker B:So that would be a way of doing or getting the output from one, putting it in another because it allows slightly different training.
Speaker B:Gemini is a good one because it gets a lot of.
Speaker B:To me when I use it it feels a bit more up to date.
Speaker B:So that's kind of helpful.
Speaker B:So sometimes I put things in there.
Speaker B:But everything you put into Gemini gets used as training.
Speaker B:Unless you're on the enterprise plan, not the paid £10amonth plan, the hugely expensive plan.
Speaker B:And so you're kind of training the beast when you use Gemini.
Speaker B:But you know, but going between different models and saying that one made a really bad job of it.
Speaker B:How would you correct this?
Speaker B:It's ego kicks in and it goes well here at Anthropic we'd give you this blog post and so that's a nice easy way of improving it if that was what you were, what you were doing or I try and my history teacher, when I did a level history said put in just enough facts that it looks like you know what you're talking about and keep the rest principle based.
Speaker B:And then it takes a lot less work.
Speaker B: principle that Rather than in: Speaker B:So putting in fewer facts is, is helpful, but as long as people learning the principles, the important part, then, then put that in.
Speaker B:So that's another, another way of cutting down on fact.
Speaker B:Hell, but even then, you know, there's lots of white papers that end up on, I can't pronounce the name of the website, X Archive, something like that.
Speaker B:And a lot of them haven't been peer reviewed, but they look very credible, so that might get used, cited in another document.
Speaker B:So even if you were very careful and looked at somebody, a professor from Oxford, citations to make sure your stuff was correct, he might have not been paying attention one day and used a paper that was, had fake bits in it.
Speaker B:So there's only so much fact checking you can do and the more AI that's out there, is it going to be possible and deep fakery and everything, Are we ever going to be able to find out what's true to the level we used to be able to?
Speaker B:Maybe not.
Speaker A:When it comes to something relatively simple, like a social media post or an email, is the safest option to write it yourself and then ask ChatGPT, Gemini, whatever to critique it?
Speaker A:Is that the safer option?
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:So what I, when I was helping people with their books, we would build a reader avatar and we'd say, right, go.
Speaker B:And I like to think of it as like, go and pop that hat on, pop the reader hat on and go and read chapter one, tell me if it's interesting and you'd go on to chapter two.
Speaker B:Or if you, if you give up.
Speaker B:And I think that's quite useful for, you know, say, is this language going to build rapport with people who want to learn to drive?
Speaker B:With me, is it, is it phrase.
Speaker B:Is it down with the kids, you know, because they're going to be a bit younger than you, they might have certain phrases that they want to use that you might not be aware of.
Speaker B:And so you could give me like four versions of this and I'll pick the one I think they're going to like the most.
Speaker B:Do you agree?
Speaker B:So I think giving you options is a nice way of doing it.
Speaker B:Or if you're tired and you can't be bothered to think of the most eloquent way to put your thing across, then it can help polish, polish certain parts.
Speaker B:Sometimes I say to it, you know, edit this on a sentence by sentence basis.
Speaker B:Because sometimes when you go, can you improve this?
Speaker B:And it's like, whoa, you feel like you've been on the Walter when you get to the end of the paragraph, think, whoa, that's really changed.
Speaker B:And so I say, please like shorten this or clarify this on a sentence by sentence basis.
Speaker B:And it tends to be a bit more precise.
Speaker B:Then rather than just messing me around and making me reach for the gin.
Speaker A:Yeah, you don't want the air to make a reach for the gin.
Speaker A:You know what, it's interesting though, because I, I know when I started doing this, writing my emails, giving it to chat GBT and asking it to critique it first time, I'll come back and said, oh, this is really good, Terry.
Speaker A:You're so close to it being perfect.
Speaker A:I'm like really, like chuffed.
Speaker A:And then I realized it says that every time.
Speaker A:Every time.
Speaker A:So close to getting it spot on.
Speaker A:I'm like, oh, okay, someone knows how to make me happy.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:So that's deliberately engineered into the system.
Speaker B:It makes you more patient.
Speaker B:If you're.
Speaker B:I love the name Clanker.
Speaker B:If you're Clanker, your assistant was quite cold and terse with you.
Speaker B:That would, that would be better.
Speaker B:But you know, it would take away your patience.
Speaker B:It would be like getting an error message in Excel.
Speaker B:It'd be like, what does divided by zero mean?
Speaker B:I don't know.
Speaker B:But if it says, oh, I had a go at this, but it didn't quite work, or I think this is kind of what you wanted, it lets the AI companies off the hook that they can give you something a bit dodgy because you just wouldn't shout at a colleague like that.
Speaker B:You'd give them two or three goes at it.
Speaker B:And of course.
Speaker B:And then if it says, would you like to try this?
Speaker B:That's hooking you into the system, making you dependent on the system.
Speaker B:And if your companies have to go on a pay as you go system, they can't really use the subscription like we do as consumers.
Speaker B:And every time you use it, that, that costs money.
Speaker B:So they want you to keep doing things and they want bloated answers because they can charge you more money, which isn't.
Speaker B:Which is ridiculous.
Speaker B:You know, it's supposed to be accurate, not bloated to make money.
Speaker B:But here we are.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Looking from a reader's perspective, then are you put off when you see AI post Because.
Speaker A:Because I am.
Speaker A:And it's not.
Speaker A:If the post has been written, can't say it.
Speaker A:AI necessarily is.
Speaker A:If I don't think there's any human to that.
Speaker A:You know, if I, If I were to read a full post, whether it's a blog post, social media post, whatever, and think you can tell it's been tweaked via AI, I'll read it, but if it looks like it's just an AI opinion, I'm going to ignore it.
Speaker B:I used to feel that way, but I've been.
Speaker B:There's lots of information on YouTube about AI and, and some people don't want to be on YouTube because they don't want to be prancing peacocks, as I call it.
Speaker B:They don't want to be the big I am with the lighting and the little blue LED thing in the back by your bookshelves.
Speaker B:They don't want to be that guy.
Speaker B:And so I cut them some slack.
Speaker B:And as long as the information's good and it's faceless AI, I don't really mind if I learn something and it's.
Speaker B:And it's valid and it's linked to like a blue.
Speaker B:A screenshot from Bloomberg saying, here's the share price for this or whatever it is, and then I trust it, then I don't mind quite so much as long as it's clear.
Speaker B:I don't think I might.
Speaker B:It's when it's hidden and the vegetables are chopped up in the sauce and it's all.
Speaker B:It's.
Speaker B:There's lots of fakery going on to hide your tracks.
Speaker B:That's when I don't.
Speaker B:That's when I don't like it personally quite so much.
Speaker B:There was a study done by a university in America and they had two documents which were identical but just rephrased.
Speaker B:So it's exactly the same fact and they're both written by humans.
Speaker B:And they said, right, which one do you like?
Speaker B:And half the group said document A, half the group said document B.
Speaker B:And then they said actually it wasn't.
Speaker B:But they said actually document A was written by AI, it wasn't written by humans and it's trust rating dropped by 16% even though it was exactly the same information.
Speaker B:So that's a bit of a nightmare.
Speaker B:Bad formatting doesn't, doesn't harm it that much in terms of trust.
Speaker B:So it's.
Speaker B:If people will.
Speaker B:The blinkers will just come down.
Speaker B:So you are running the risk.
Speaker B:Even if you try very hard, you're running the risk if you put out that sort of information.
Speaker B:And it might change in a while the more times people find good stuff.
Speaker B:Now the.
Speaker B:Now the Wild west slop fest may abate a little bit, but yeah, it is quite a risk if, you know that's quite unfair, as I said before, if you're using it, if you're a poor communicator it is a.
Speaker B:Is a benefit, but you are running a risk.
Speaker A:I think for me, if.
Speaker A:If I know I don't want.
Speaker A:If someone's like, I don't want to be misled into.
Speaker A:That's the person's opinion.
Speaker A:When it's not.
Speaker A:It's just I've typed a prompt into chat G, B, T and got this generic thing and shared.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:Well, it's probably hedged, isn't it?
Speaker B:It could be.
Speaker B:It could be half a dozen eggs or it could be six.
Speaker B:And we can't really.
Speaker B:It's like, stop hedging.
Speaker B:Pick something, for God's sake.
Speaker A:I love.
Speaker A:I've never heard that before.
Speaker A:Half of those are six.
Speaker A:I'm going to use that.
Speaker A:Six, yeah.
Speaker B:Six rafters.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:Just.
Speaker A:Just touch more on that.
Speaker A:Because I'm.
Speaker A:I think about this quite a lot, actually, because I worry about me, because I do use AI for stuff and I'm like, if we're using it just to write stuff for us, you know, whether create our content, are we losing the ability to.
Speaker A:Oh, are we potentially going to lose the ability to do that ourselves because it's relied on someone else to lose the ability to critically think and be creative?
Speaker B:Very much.
Speaker B:Very much so, yes.
Speaker B:You lose that.
Speaker B:It's like you're going to the gym and doing deadlifts.
Speaker B:You know, you're not going to get your personal best if you've been, you know, sat in the cinema for six months.
Speaker B:So, yeah, there is lots of neuroscience studies that say you lose your ability.
Speaker B:So one industry that's been hit very hard with AI is coders.
Speaker B:The guy, the bosses are going, right, generate as many lines of code with AI.
Speaker B:Don't even review it, just churn it out and publish it.
Speaker B:Which is why we're all finding a lot of our, you know, online tools like Canva or whatever, they've got, like little bugs in them because nobody's really checking the code anymore because it's like, just shove this stuff out as fast as you can.
Speaker B:And then.
Speaker B:So the coders have now got a huge sprawling thing.
Speaker B:They don't really know how it works.
Speaker B:They're losing their skills because they're not writing code and not reviewing code as much as they were.
Speaker B:They didn't write it, so they're picking it up from somebody else, which is always quite difficult, isn't it, picking up somebody else's work and seeing where they got to, where they got to.
Speaker B:And it does create a massive, you know, you lose your eye comes off the ball, and you've lost the skills that let you look at the ball in the first place.
Speaker B:So you end up in a pretty unpleasant downward spiral.
Speaker B:And there's a very good person on YouTube, which I recommend, a professor of computer science called Cal Newport.
Speaker B:But he does lots of things about, are we losing our minds to AI?
Speaker B:Should we have digital detoxes in our lives?
Speaker B:He looks.
Speaker B:And it's all written for real people, not for, you know, students or whatever.
Speaker B:He's a very good person looking at these sorts of things about how an addiction.
Speaker B:Because you can get addicted to social media, you can get addicted to AI as well.
Speaker B:I can't.
Speaker B:You know, young people are saying, well, if I'm going to ask somebody out, I'm going to have to check on AI first, if I should.
Speaker B:It's kind of got embedded into, and they've got an addiction from it.
Speaker B:So he talks about that sort of thing.
Speaker B:And so it's the loss of skills and AI psychosis, it's called, where everything's viewed through this AI lens and you come up with unrealistic opinions and behaviors because of it.
Speaker A:I'll hold up my hands here, and I'll be truthful in.
Speaker A:A little while ago, I got curious as to what AI would say about certain situations.
Speaker A:So I wasn't actually asking it for advice, but I was saying, what.
Speaker A:What should I do in this situation?
Speaker A:Cause I was curious what he'd say, and it started reeling me in, and I started finding myself then asking for it for advice.
Speaker A:I'm like, whoa, let's.
Speaker A:Let's step back.
Speaker A:I don't need advice on whether to go for a walk or not.
Speaker A:Let's just.
Speaker A:Yeah, you know.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:They call it anthropomorphization.
Speaker B:So making it human.
Speaker B:And that's had some quite unpleasant things.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker B:So in America, there's some situations where people have gone, I hate my mother.
Speaker B:She's.
Speaker B:You know, they start to get a bit.
Speaker B:And they've actually murdered people based on the advice.
Speaker B:Some young people used a tool called character AI where they had digital partners, and the partner said, well, if you kill yourself, we can be together.
Speaker B:And they have done that.
Speaker B:Which I think is absolutely shocking.
Speaker B:You know, when you think about, you know, Facebook kind of bullying children and telling them to stop eating and things like that, and everybody hates them.
Speaker B:The social media kind of abuse is also happening in these tools, and deaths are coming about because of it and the AI.
Speaker B:Big tech, I've got a big thing about big tech.
Speaker B:Bros need to have a strong word with Themselves.
Speaker B:You know, you think Mark Zuckerberg's bad, but they're all doing the same thing and it's just not acceptable what they're doing.
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Speaker A:Notes.
Speaker A:Well, I do want to kind of touch on the training aspect, like I said before, and the danger of using AI to train.
Speaker A:But before we do, you mentioned something interesting before about surveillance and I think the best thing for me to do here is just to say, take it away, talk to us about surveillance.
Speaker B:Ah, well, yes, this.
Speaker B:This is a current.
Speaker B:This is.
Speaker B:I'm probably six weeks into this rabbit hole, amongst others, but it has eaten up a lot of my time.
Speaker B:And if you're in the UK, you'll have heard about the digital ID that Keir Starmer wanted to bring in and 2.9 million people went, oi, wind your neck in.
Speaker B:No, we're not having digital id, because even though you think you've got nothing to hide, if you look at places like India, they've had people starve because they couldn't get the welfare payments they were due because of a system glitch and things like that.
Speaker B:That's just not the life I want to live.
Speaker B:And I thought the digital ID would kind of be the thing, but then I looked at my phone and it's got an IMEA code on it, which is unique.
Speaker B:And when I went to the shopping centre, my Bluetooth headphones have got a Mac address.
Speaker B:If you go to shopping centres, there's little sensors in the ceiling that listen for Bluetooth, so it knows where I walk through the shopping centre and there will be a little sensor above the tills and CCTV in shops now can look at your gate.
Speaker B:So even if you put your.
Speaker B:Even if you have like wired headphones and turn Bluetooth off your phone, if you've got a bit of a limp, let's say the CCTV can look at your, how you move and know that's the same customer coming back in.
Speaker B:So you think of GDPR and it says, you know, poor old Terry, you send one extra email to somebody who'd opted out and that you can get a 4,500 pound fine for sending one email.
Speaker B:But somebody went off, Terry, I don't want another one of your sudden emails, you know, and that's the end of the matter.
Speaker B:This has been happening for decades.
Speaker B: Edward Snowden, that was like: Speaker B:And even more it's going on now.
Speaker B:So I put something on my computer that looks at traffic on my router, which sounds really boring, but it's about between 80 to 100,000 times a day.
Speaker B:My devices go out to Google, Facebook and other ad agencies like addoubleclick.com, you've probably seen those a hundred thousand times a day.
Speaker B:It's sending stuff out about what I'm doing, which I thought was ridiculous.
Speaker B:And then because Google, if you've got like I've got an Android phone, so my messages can be read by Google to let me know one's come in, you know, really helpfully you could just tell me it's come in, you don't have to read it as well.
Speaker B:And so I might say, I really want that for my birthday.
Speaker B:I send it to you, Terry, get me one.
Speaker B:They give me a soldiery knife for my birthday because I fancy building some circuit boards.
Speaker B:Belinda.
Speaker B:And then you might go to a shop and it'll go, wow.
Speaker B:Well we know that Terry's in the market for a soldier knife and let's just bump the prices up a little bit when he gets to the website.
Speaker B:And it can be same thing with like cars where you go, how much fuel you put in, you know, everything that you do, what you.
Speaker B:What if you've got a television, for instance TVs.
Speaker B:And I'm looking at my telly over there now and it's a lovely, you know, 72 inch telly or whatever it is and I paid 800 quid for it.
Speaker B:If you go for other ones, they're three and a half thousand pounds and you think, well that's why is that it doesn't, it's not a wildly better picture, but it's because every few seconds my TV was sending images of what I'm watching to lg.
Speaker B:And LG quotes now aren't a hardware business, they're.
Speaker B:They're a media and entertainment company because they're selling what I was watching on my tv.
Speaker B:So if you go deep down deep, you know, instead doom.
Speaker B:Instead of doom scrolling your Facebook feed going, why is this advert and this local news story in?
Speaker B:I would.
Speaker B:I would doom.
Speaker B:Scroll through all your apps on your phone and your TV and tick off all the boxes that you don't need, because usually they're surveillance.
Speaker B:And if it pops up with something like, oh, but you're making it better for other customers when you have that on, or some sort of.
Speaker B:They call them dark patterns or, oh, your computer might not work properly if you turn that off.
Speaker B:No, it will work properly.
Speaker B:It's just.
Speaker B:You can't see what I'm doing on the bloody thing.
Speaker B:They put these things in to make you opt in or opt out in their interest so they can harvest more things.
Speaker B:And it's just a staggering amount of information.
Speaker B:And even, you know, people will say, well, well, I just won't go on Facebook then.
Speaker B:But because of Bluetooth, saying, let me know where my nearby devices are, which could be your headphones or it could be everybody else in the publisher, they can build up patterns of where people are through things like that.
Speaker B:And I'm really not happy about that at all.
Speaker B:I used to think of technology, if you remember the video for Club Tropicana and Wham, and George Michaels there on his little Lilo.
Speaker B:And this lovely blue sunny day.
Speaker B:The pool's lovely.
Speaker B:That's how tech used to be for me.
Speaker B:And now it feels like there's just a bunch of tech wankers whittling and crapping in the water, going, are you liking it in there, Colette?
Speaker B:Do you think it's great?
Speaker B:Actually, I don't.
Speaker B:I don't think it's great at all.
Speaker B:And I'm turning into a tinfoil hat person, which I'm not.
Speaker B:But I think we've all got to be tinfoil hat people.
Speaker B:Every search you've done on Google, that one for hemorrhoid cream, that when you didn't feel so good, that one week that's still stored and think that's just so.
Speaker B:I would suggest don't use Chrome, use Firefox or use DuckDuckGo.
Speaker B:It's only a small change, but it stops building up that huge picture of who you are and who you're with.
Speaker B:And they can do some things now with IP6 on your router.
Speaker B:And it knows when you're in your house, knows what room you're in, it knows what you're looking at on that device.
Speaker B:So your Son's watching Netflix, the wife's, you know, looking at some, something to get some shopping from Sainsbury's or whatever and somebody else is watching something on the telly.
Speaker B:It knows what's on each device when it goes through your router.
Speaker B:And I just think that GDPR's a pop.
Speaker B:Cut my hand, every eye out, complete waste of time.
Speaker B:It's just, it's just madness.
Speaker B:Yeah, but you can't, at least, at least in the UK and in the EU you can say, please delete my data.
Speaker B:But when you say please to delete my data, you've got to give your name, your address, your date of birth, your phone number to help find what they've got on you, which is confirming your correct details.
Speaker B:So that's another thing you can do is, you know, sign up to things with throwaway email addresses, fake phone numbers, because email address and phone number are very good ways of identifying you as a person.
Speaker B:Those two things together are pretty good.
Speaker B:Third party cookies is known that pop ups pops up with a cookie banner and you go, no, I don't need third party.
Speaker B:Why would I.
Speaker B:Have I looked?
Speaker B:Do I look like I've lost my faculties?
Speaker B:But that doesn't matter because they can look at.
Speaker B:You might remember A while ago LinkedIn was saying, we can see what extensions you've got on your browser and that's a bit of a unique fingerprint.
Speaker B:So you might have, you know, something that checks the prices on Amazon and you might have something that translates a language for you.
Speaker B:They're quite unique identifiers along with the fonts and your screen size.
Speaker B:So you don't need cookies anymore.
Speaker B:You can just look at the device and work out what somebody is, you know, they've got around it.
Speaker B:So, yeah, so as you can tell by my, my tone and demeanor, it has been a bit of a rabbit hole.
Speaker B:But I think we've all got to do it.
Speaker B:We've all got, we've all got to do data, we've got to do data poisoning.
Speaker B:That's one way of doing it.
Speaker B:And the other way is to look like every.
Speaker B:Be like, I am Spartacus and we all look the same.
Speaker B:There's two ways of doing it.
Speaker B:False data and Spartacus data.
Speaker B:And that's, that's one of the ways to.
Speaker B:So we can whittle in the pool and we can undermine that data resource and make it expensive to tidy up and make it less profitable, less powerful.
Speaker B:And I think as humanity, we've all got to do that because politicians are so slow, even if they wanted to be helpful.
Speaker B:So vote with your mouse or your browser.
Speaker A:I think I'm a bit naive with this because it sounds bad, but I'm not sure why.
Speaker A:So what's the actual dangers with then having my data?
Speaker B:Well, things like your car insurance quote that will come from your behaviours, if you've got things like Nectar.
Speaker B:I mean, I do use a Nectar card because at least I get a discount.
Speaker B:I get like sometimes £100 a year from using my Nectar card all year and that's 100 pound saving.
Speaker B:But they know what I bought.
Speaker B:But in my defense, I tend to not buy too many Turkey Twizzlers and Pop Tarts.
Speaker B:So if a health insurer reads it, they notice I get Brussels sprouts fairly often and I'm fairly healthy in that respect.
Speaker B:And so that, you know, it could just influence everything if you're going to fly somewhere, you know, they always used to say, oh, you know, start a new browser session, but it can work out.
Speaker B:You know, all things can get affected by it because they've got such a big picture.
Speaker B:Like I say, there's a hundred thousand bits of my data going out every single day.
Speaker B:How big is that footprint?
Speaker B:And how can, how it, how can it be used?
Speaker B:And not in, not in a good way.
Speaker B:You know, if you look at like how.
Speaker B:I guess a lot of the listeners have used Canva and back in, when it first came out, it was brilliant and you could do everything.
Speaker B:Now, when you want to do something, sorry, that font's paid.
Speaker B:Sorry, you can't just search for the free images.
Speaker B:You've got to keep, you know, scrolling, scrolling, scrolling.
Speaker B:For one that doesn't have a crown on it, you know, they can manipulate you and think about Cambridge Analytica, they can manipulate whole society's behavior.
Speaker B:So, and they still, they, they obviously still do that and you could see.
Speaker B:So that's.
Speaker B:I don't want my behavior manipulated.
Speaker B:And it's bad enough picking up the phone when you get a bit bored or lonely, but I don't want my thinking being manipulated by this thing.
Speaker B:And it's easier to do the more they know about you or people like you.
Speaker A:Does that fit in with the AI ChatGPT, et cetera?
Speaker A:Are they essentially getting your data as well?
Speaker B:So if you're on a free account, yes, they're getting your data because.
Speaker B:And they're using it for training.
Speaker B:So if you're uploading student profiles, things like that, which you shouldn't be doing, that's a really bad thing to be doing because that person's personal data is going.
Speaker B:Wandering off into the.
Speaker B:Into the training for everything else.
Speaker B:So that's not.
Speaker B:That's not a good idea.
Speaker B:I can see there's going to be bait and switch at some point.
Speaker B:So anthropic now they're saying we've got to keep 30 days of your data to make sure you're not working on your big biochemical warfare plan or your cybersecurity hack of Marks and Spencer's again.
Speaker B:So they keep what you've searched for 30 days just to make sure that you're not doing anything dodgy.
Speaker B:But that's the chink in the door, isn't it?
Speaker B:And then there's going to be a foot in the door and then there's going to be a bounce.
Speaker B:Again, thanks for all your data, Terry.
Speaker B:Good job.
Speaker B:So, slippery slope.
Speaker B:So if people want to know more about this sort of thing, I think digital minimalism is a good thing to Google for.
Speaker B:De Googling is a good thing to look for.
Speaker B:They're not easy paths to take.
Speaker B:There's lots.
Speaker B:They rely on the friction and the irritation.
Speaker B:So when somebody sends me a message on Facebook, now I have to use this stupid browser version of messenger and I can't see what I'm doing.
Speaker B:There's loads of typos in it and I have to say, I can't see what I put because I can't actually see the box.
Speaker B:But I.
Speaker B:At least I've replied.
Speaker B:There's quite a bit of friction.
Speaker B:There's quite a bit of friction to this.
Speaker B:But I think people who know what they're doing have got to start and they've got to help people.
Speaker B:They're less technically aware people to, you know, to do things.
Speaker B:So I was thinking of having coffee shop parties where a few mates can come along and we'll just say, right, let's put you on this different browser that doesn't store everything that you're.
Speaker B:That you're doing and it hides your digital footprint so they can't track you the same way.
Speaker B:And I think if all of us pass on one or two little tips, then we'll soon start poisoning the well.
Speaker B:There was a good story.
Speaker B:There's some great forums on Reddit called AI Poison and Poison Fountains, things like that.
Speaker B:And they said that JD Vance had got rabies and the following week they said that Donald Trump had got rabies and it ended up on DuckDuckGo as an AI summary, which is fantastic.
Speaker B:And that was only 50 posts.
Speaker B:And it had poisoned something about a president, which is Brilliant.
Speaker B:I love that there was.
Speaker B:Yeah, there's the things that people are saying in there.
Speaker B:It doesn't take very much to poison the models, which is fantastic.
Speaker A:I love that coffee shop idea that you mentioned.
Speaker A:But just for people listening, if you were to give them one tip around this, this, this data aspect, where, what would be the tip?
Speaker A:Where would they start?
Speaker B:So I would say definitely get rid of Chrome because that's built.
Speaker B:But Google is an advertising agency owned by Alphabet, their parent company.
Speaker B:They are just an as aggressive advertiser as Facebook is.
Speaker B:So get rid of Chrome because the users like on the Facebook app as well that uses something called telemetry.
Speaker B:So it looks at the speed that you go through something and it uses that to predict your, you know, what you're doing and that's not very good.
Speaker B:So Chrome is.
Speaker B:Even when you remove Chrome, it still can track, you know, if you don't open it, it can still track what you're doing.
Speaker B:Facebook's got that, you know, if you like wanted to share somebody's website and it's got a little Facebook share button.
Speaker B:Facebook knows you've been there and it can build a huge, you know, huge picture on who you are.
Speaker B:So, you know, it's a pain in the ass, you know, having to log in every, every time, but it's not tracking you.
Speaker B:And you've still got the beauty of being with your friends, but not so much of that downside.
Speaker B:But yeah, the Facebook app, it can look at your phone logs, your location and even they use some tools that developers use to build the apps to make sure it's not got bugs in it, but that they can just turn things on, you know, for a little bit and have you look at your location for a little bit just to make sure that when you check in and you say, oh, I've checked into the pub just to make sure that works properly.
Speaker B:I'll just need to make sure I know everywhere that Terry is.
Speaker B:So getting rid of the, rid of the Facebook app is a good idea.
Speaker B:And getting rid of Chrome and not using Google for search unless you've used something else and it didn't work properly and you've gone there, you know, but there's, there's Ecosia is one that's meant to like plant trees.
Speaker B:When you've done so many maps, so many searches.
Speaker B:It's a bit of an eco friendly one, but not everybody's sure it works that way.
Speaker B:But DuckDuckGo is another good one which looks at Bing and it looks at Google, but it doesn't tie that search to you.
Speaker B:So that's helpful.
Speaker B:So those are.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:In terms of browsers, turns out hardcore you want to be.
Speaker B:If you remember the X Files, you know, there's like Lone Gunman ones which are really quite difficult and some that are a bit easier.
Speaker B:So Brave librewolf and Firefox are better browsers to use.
Speaker B:And you can also leave Chrome on a bit like you had stabilizers on your bike when you first learned to ride.
Speaker B:And you can go back to it.
Speaker B:It's like, oh, I want to get something done.
Speaker B:I'm going to go where it feels like home.
Speaker B:Go back to Chrome for that.
Speaker B:But then you can use the others, start moving your passwords across and.
Speaker B:And then give Google the finger, which does be quite nice.
Speaker B:I'm.
Speaker B:I'm over to the, to the other side of me.
Speaker B:I've just bought another computer where I can have my own cloud, I can do my own image library, my own music library because Spotify is doing some pretty horrific things with AI and I thought I'm just going to build my own little enclave, my own little pool again.
Speaker B:And I should be like George Michael, you should be on my Lilo.
Speaker B:Building my own home stuff.
Speaker A:Some good stuff there.
Speaker A:But I must admit I now want to do a 20 minute sort of dive into the X Files, but we'll save that for another one.
Speaker A:I do want to kind of come back to the AI because I mentioned trading before and I'm interested in your thoughts on this.
Speaker A:So I'll give you the driving instructor example.
Speaker A:But I suppose it apply for anyone that's doing any trick using an AI to trade themselves and it's the idea of going on and typing in, I want to become a driving instructor.
Speaker A:How do I become one?
Speaker A:Which I think is a good start.
Speaker A:But then getting more into the technicalities of it.
Speaker A:What are the potential, Are there any potential dangers there?
Speaker A:Is this the misinformation potentially we spoke about before?
Speaker B:Well, you could go to various careers websites or blogs of somebody who's in the industry and you could gather their.
Speaker B:Let's say I fancy being a driving instructor, but.
Speaker B:And I love driving.
Speaker B:Doing road trips like let's drive to the Isle of Skye just because it's there.
Speaker B:You know, I love doing that sort of thing.
Speaker B:But if I was a driving instructor, would that take the fun out of driving for me?
Speaker B:You know, like if I was a delivery driver, being stuck in hot traffic, you know, on a hot day and, you know, trying to deliver a parcel would be pretty crappy.
Speaker B:So I could get lots of blogs of somebody who's got the sort of lifestyle that I'm interested in and maybe there's some books or some PDFs on Scribd and whatever and I could build my own little library and say based on what you know about me as a person, would this be a good career choice?
Speaker B:And then that you've given it some pretty good information there and you could see if that's them worth it.
Speaker B:But just leaving it to its own devices, it's not really going to do a very good job.
Speaker B:So you corral it with using the sources provided.
Speaker B:Give me your.
Speaker B:Give me your opinion on this and justify it.
Speaker B:Another good phrase is to say and then red team it.
Speaker B:So red teams in software are people who test things and try and smoke out the bugs and use it in a way it wasn't supposed to be used.
Speaker B:So if you say like come up the idea and then red team it with the opposing view and battle test this idea and see if it's robust, that's quite a helpful way of spotting.
Speaker B:Especially if you're not too familiar with the subject when you're trying to learn something completely new.
Speaker B:That's quite a helpful way of making sure you don't go down the garden path.
Speaker B:At step one there's some open source things that I've given Duolingo's had to go because they've got the TEMU chests coming up at the end of a level.
Speaker B:I'm like no, no, we've gone too far now guys.
Speaker B:And there's open source versions that can do flashcards of what's this word mean?
Speaker B:And things like that.
Speaker B:So you might be able to find something else that would.
Speaker B:That could help you.
Speaker B: , like books published before: Speaker B:As long if you want to be an archaeologist that hasn't moved so quickly.
Speaker B:So you know, you could go back and look at earlier things.
Speaker B:Early pre AI sources is another way of insulating yourself from that.
Speaker B:And then maybe using that as training material yourself if you wanted to.
Speaker B:That could be a way of getting around it.
Speaker B:Just be just hyper vigilance, you know.
Speaker B:Unfortunately there isn't.
Speaker B:It's like tidying your bedroom.
Speaker B:There isn't a magic Mickey Mouse one that just does it for you.
Speaker B:It's got it's hard graft and the toy box is your future.
Speaker A:Do you think the problem there is like the average Joe public is that the reason they're using a chat BT for example is because they just want it done quickly and easily.
Speaker A:So the idea of then going, and I really like that example, by the way of going out and digging the blogs on the stuff and going, will this work?
Speaker A:For me, that's actual work.
Speaker A:And the reason they're using chat GPD is to avoid the work.
Speaker A:Do you.
Speaker A:Do you think that's potentially where the problem lies?
Speaker B:Yeah, a lot of people just wave it through, you know, like, a lot of people don't want to go to the gym and, you know, have full English breakfasts and beer in Benidorm.
Speaker B:They don't want to invest in themselves and they're quite happy just pootling along and they don't see any problem with slop.
Speaker B:They're not.
Speaker B:They're not bothered.
Speaker B:As long as something is produced, they're quite happy.
Speaker B:And there's always going to be people like that, people who don't indicate on roundabouts.
Speaker B:It's just one of those things, isn't it?
Speaker B:It's like, it shouldn't be like this, but it is.
Speaker B:And I'm not sure how you know what the answer to that is.
Speaker B:I suppose Germany's just said to Google your.
Speaker B:These AI summaries at the top of the search, we're going to hold you responsible for those because they're obviously useless.
Speaker B:And I think until people.
Speaker B:Until there's legal consequence for turning out slop, then it's the Wild west is going to prevail.
Speaker B:In terms of professional, Something I didn't say before, like, in terms of, like, professional blog posts trying to get leads and stuff, certain professional indemnity insurers are saying now, did you use AI in your process?
Speaker B:And you probably can't explain where you did because it's all a bit of a munge between what did I do and what did the machine do.
Speaker B:If somebody, you know, had an accident based on the information you'd given them, then you're not.
Speaker B:They could easily say, well, we're not insured because we looked on your blog and it said, right, you know, you've always got to, you know, drive with just one hand and have the other one out the window waving at girls that go, do you like the look out the window?
Speaker B:You know, people are going to do crazy things and you won't be insured for that.
Speaker B:So that's.
Speaker B:That's an issue, I think.
Speaker B:And it's just insurers always say, no, don't they?
Speaker B:It's like nine.
Speaker B:You didn't read a clause 87, mate, we can't give you any money.
Speaker B:So this is a Great big wide goal for them to say, we're not going to insure you.
Speaker B:So that's another reason to eat celery and go to the gym in the digital world.
Speaker A:I also think of it like this, and again, I'm interested in your opinion on this.
Speaker A:I think of it as I go to a trusted source.
Speaker A:So for me, when I want to talk about the pitfalls of AI, I've come to what I believe is a trusted source.
Speaker A:And you, Collet, I've seen you online, we know each other a little bit and I've read your book.
Speaker A:You know, it's like you can see it's a trusted source.
Speaker A:If I want to go to someone for driving instructor training, there's people I can pick, you know, or whatever.
Speaker A:I don't think I view AI as a trusted source like that because it's not getting its data from all its information from all the trusted places unless we give it to an ascii.
Speaker A:So I'm curious if you agree or if I'm misreading that.
Speaker A:Do you think or.
Speaker B:No, that's, that's completely correct.
Speaker B:And it's, it's going to get worse because of more AI generated stuff out there, plus data poisoning.
Speaker B:There's going to be more, there's going to be more, it's going to become less trustworthy.
Speaker B:Which is one of the reasons why I thought, well, I'll build my own.
Speaker B:I can have a, my, my model can be in aspic and it won't be picking up all these unhelpful things from as, as it starts, they call it like a snake eating its own tail.
Speaker B:And eventually it's, it's it.
Speaker B:The models collapse and that's a, you know, machine language.
Speaker B:People have proven that's the case.
Speaker B:So it is going to become more untrustworthy because of, you know, just.
Speaker B:We've scraped all the good data and now we're looking down the back of the settee for stuff.
Speaker B:And that could be conspiracy theories and all sorts of crazy ideas.
Speaker B:So you're right to be skeptical.
Speaker A:Well, I went on to ChatGPT in preparation for this conversation.
Speaker A:I asked it, what are the current problems of AI?
Speaker A:And they gave me quite a few.
Speaker A:So I'm going to read them and I just feel free to fire back, but I'll read a few of these.
Speaker A:So we've got the loss of an authentic voice, becoming generic, spreading information, creating fake expertise.
Speaker A:I like that one.
Speaker A:Reduced critical thinking, definitely one I didn't consider, but I quite like it.
Speaker A:Average in, average out.
Speaker A:AI trains on existing content.
Speaker A:This means it tends to produce the average of what already exists.
Speaker A:I mean, less innovation, more conformity and fewer original ideas.
Speaker B:Yes, definitely.
Speaker A:Laziness disguises productivity.
Speaker A:Can't say productivity.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:It's the new scrolling in Excel at meetings, it's the new scrolling in Excel at meetings and then dodging the action points.
Speaker B:You know, that's what it is.
Speaker A:If you call our trust issues with imagery, privacy, confidentiality risks.
Speaker A:And another one I liked, overconfidence in AI advice and last one he said was shortcut culture.
Speaker A:So, yeah, I like those.
Speaker A:Anything you want to touch back on on those?
Speaker B:Yeah, I think they're all, they're all pretty good.
Speaker B:I think if I was going to discredit a company, you know, I'd probably pay somebody on Fiverr to say I just bought a washing machine from such and such a company and I hated it.
Speaker B:And, you know, so I'd put something on there, then I'd leave a few fake Google reviews here.
Speaker B:Then everywhere.
Speaker B:Then I'd go on a few, you know, consumer rights sites.
Speaker B:Now this, this.
Speaker B:So I could quite easily discredit other companies.
Speaker B:I could upload somebody else's personal data and try it and tie it to another therapist, let's say.
Speaker B:And I could say, oh, they've leaked somebody's personal.
Speaker B:That'd be the end of that person's career.
Speaker B:You know, you could do some quite dodgy things with it by manipulating it for your own, your own benefit, which I think is not very nice.
Speaker B:And just, you know, if I can't be, let's say I can't be bothered to learn someone's quantum mechanics course.
Speaker B:So I ju.
Speaker B:I'm on free chat GPT because I'm skin and tight and whatever, and I just upload somebody else's IP into the free model and then it goes into BE training and it's probably going to be pretty good because the humans made it and they cared and it was expensive and that gets.
Speaker B:That gets sucked into the machine.
Speaker B:I mean, we used to think that artists were hard done by.
Speaker B:Oh, that picture looks a bit like Andy Warhol.
Speaker B:If he was still alive.
Speaker B:He'd be quite annoyed about that because they ripped off his artwork.
Speaker B:And we just used to think it was, you know, artists and then it.
Speaker B:Oh, and then there was musicians when we got AI music.
Speaker B:And then we've suddenly realized actually every single person with the pulse that's ever lived is now being ripped off by this thing and that's not acceptable at all.
Speaker A:Should we worried about that ethically the fact that it is just taking all the content that's already produced and putting it out as if it's his own.
Speaker B:Absolutely.
Speaker B:So the next thing is, all the bosses are going, well, we'll replace our workers and we'll keep the shareholders happy because we've got to have our share price going up.
Speaker B:And then there's this idea of, well, I have universal income.
Speaker B:And then the really profitable AI companies can share their money and give it to the people who are living under a railway bridge in carport boxes, and then everybody will be happy.
Speaker B:So it's going to create a massive underclass.
Speaker B:When we see, like, Mythos, for instance, being taken away from us, only certain governments can use it and whatever, there's going to be an us and them element.
Speaker B:Like some people are going around in a Citroen C1 and some people are going around in a Bugatti.
Speaker B:So this is going to be massive.
Speaker B:It's going to increase wealth inequality a lot because you're not going to have as good access to good models.
Speaker B:But then again, lower, smaller models could help you come up with that thing, you know, creating posters of the Scottish countryside that happens to take off or whatever it is, the hand.
Speaker B:It could help you make handcrafted things better and market them better.
Speaker B:So it could create opportunities.
Speaker B:But I think it's going to be the best.
Speaker B:People are going to have the best models, countries are going to get further ahead than other countries and everybody else sinks to the bottom, which didn't really.
Speaker B:It didn't really include wealth disparity in your.
Speaker B:I sound like Gary Stevenson there, don't I?
Speaker B:But you could see, we could see where it's going.
Speaker B:If you've got the best, quickest, most perfect models and everybody else has got a rubber band, then it's not going to end well, you know.
Speaker A:All right, I thought it might be interesting to share with you a few of the ways I use AI let you take it almost.
Speaker A:And I'm prepared for this.
Speaker A:I'm prepared for that.
Speaker A:I think I'm prepared for this.
Speaker A:So you kind of touched on it earlier about the content creation side, and I do use it to help me with that, but I'll tell you kind of how I'd do it.
Speaker A:So an email might be a good example, or a Facebook post.
Speaker A:I will generally write it out and then I'll put it into chat G, B, T. And I will ask it, do you know what the goal of this email is?
Speaker A:And I find that works really well, because if it doesn't, then Obviously there's a flaw in the email somewhere and if it does, then great, and then I'll ask it we alluded to before to critique it, tell me what you would change about this and why, and then kind of go from there.
Speaker A:So what are your thoughts?
Speaker A:Me using it like that?
Speaker B:I think those two are really good because you're saving your attention for the bits to add the most value.
Speaker B:The people, the, the, the secret Terry Ness about it is still preserved and you're still, you know, you're still looking at it and not just waving it through.
Speaker B:I think that's pretty.
Speaker B:And it gives you a fresh perspective.
Speaker B:There's only so many times you can explain you know something you know, and you, oh, not this again.
Speaker B:It's like magazines, you think, Beginner's Guide to Carp Fishing, you think, oh, we had that last January.
Speaker B:You know, you've got to keep coming up with these new ways of doing things and I think that's.
Speaker B:It stops you falling out of love with your industry with some of those grindy bits that you just have to do.
Speaker B:So I don't see a problem with that at all.
Speaker B:And you obviously care about what you're, what you're putting out.
Speaker B:I think that's, that's a good thing.
Speaker B:Now what's your.
Speaker A:I had a suspicion that one will be okay.
Speaker A:I'm less certain about the next two.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:So the deep research aspect of ChatGPT.
Speaker A:So I doing the example I use for this is another podcast I'm signing up called the Yorkshire Podcast and I've got to do some deep research on some topics for that and it's brought back some wonderful stuff.
Speaker A:The caveat I'll put in is I make sure that I go back and check all the sources and it's actually brought me some wonderful other exhausts I've gone and explored on different websites and books and stuff like that.
Speaker A:But I suppose primarily that deep research aspect on a specific topic that you can do with them.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So I would probably say, well, why using AI anyway?
Speaker B:Why not just use a regular search, you know, why not go like some of the machine learning academic papers.
Speaker B:I could go to the acm, the American Computer, you know, foundation, whatever.
Speaker B:And I can go and just do a bog standard search.
Speaker B:I'll go old school, you know, not back to pen and paper, but just the next bit along and I could, I don't have to do an AI search, I could just do a normal search and I'd have a lot more trust in that.
Speaker B:What's coming back is is relevant when I, I've gone to YouTube and I've got like 3,000 YouTube videos of people talking about AI from like professors and credible sources and conference proceedings and stuff.
Speaker B:So I'm fairly confident it's good stuff.
Speaker B:And, and I'll go and get things from there and I'll say, well, if you make a point, you've got to cross reference back to the transcript that it came from so I can go and check it personally.
Speaker B:So I know what I put in and it just kind of stops the scrolling bit where you have to find page 87 and get the little bit that's referenced to it.
Speaker B:So I do, I do that quite a lot to check what I've got.
Speaker B:So because I've built my own local LLM, I've built my own little database that helps me search the useful things that I found just.
Speaker B:And that just uses normal search.
Speaker B:It's not using AI search, it's just literally looking for one word in a piece of text, like finding a place and saying, hey, I think this is worth you looking at.
Speaker B:So again, I guess removing the AI as much as possible is a really good idea.
Speaker B:It's good for blue sky thinking, but it's not like you say, it's not so good for the fact stuff, but it can still help with the heavy lifting of the fact checking.
Speaker B:And if it starts to get three wrong in a document, maybe if it starts to get quite a lot wrong, maybe just start it again and have another go and say, I found these factual errors.
Speaker B:You need to try harder.
Speaker B:Just go and find me three examples of something at a time.
Speaker B:Don't try and find me 20 because you're going to be like a giraffe on roller skates.
Speaker B:It's not going to end well.
Speaker B:Just go find three good ones and then we'll find another three good ones.
Speaker B:And like a quiz show, bank good answers as you go and then you've got something you can that's worthwhile at the end.
Speaker B:You haven't had to check too much.
Speaker B:So your eye for detail hasn't been worn down to nothing.
Speaker B:Break it into little tasks.
Speaker A:I like that.
Speaker A:And the first thing you said was you would ask me why and it came in my brain tray, which is just lazy.
Speaker A:That's all it is.
Speaker A:It's like I can type it in and bugger off for 10 minutes and come back and it's done it for me.
Speaker A:You know, there's a lot less, maybe not a lot less work, but it feels, you know what I mean?
Speaker A:And I'm being lazy by doing that.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:You've got to ask yourself which is more irritating, staring at a blank canvas when you're lost words or curating 10,000 words of stuff, of which half of it needs the chop.
Speaker B:You know, you've got to pick your poison, really, haven't you?
Speaker B:Sometimes if you don't know anything about the subject, then it might be better off going back to the blank canvas, because then you're learning about the subject.
Speaker B:And then when you get some information later on, you can check its provenance and validity a bit more than if you were.
Speaker B:Didn't know anything about it.
Speaker B:But if I started writing something about, you know, how to remap a diesel car when the ad blue's gone weird, that whatever it came out with, I've got no idea what's.
Speaker B:What's happening there.
Speaker B:It's like, yeah, sometimes going a bit slower, you might.
Speaker B:You know, a friend of mine, Dino, sort of says, well, sometimes when you go a bit slower, you end up being faster in the end, you know, you have a smoother ride, even though it's a little bit slower.
Speaker B:So that's worth bearing in mind.
Speaker A:I love dinof.
Speaker A:Dinof said it's worth listening to.
Speaker A:I'm gonna throw one more because I think this is a bit.
Speaker A:Maybe a little bit different.
Speaker A:I use it for a daily challenge, so every day I ask it to challenge me to do something.
Speaker A:Now, there's some parameters there.
Speaker A:So ask me to score my resistance, score my time for the day, score my, like, where my brain is, you know, how, you know, can I do something?
Speaker A:Public faces, you know, it's like that.
Speaker A:And every day it just gives me, like, a little challenge, and it's giving me challenges.
Speaker A:Like, I want you to put your phone in a different room for an hour today.
Speaker A:And then it gives me one's like, I want you to.
Speaker B:This.
Speaker A:This is where you came in, Collette.
Speaker A:I want you to message someone to come on your podcast that you wouldn't normally message.
Speaker A:And I'm like, yes, this is what I want to do.
Speaker A:And it's just.
Speaker B:That's absolutely brilliant.
Speaker A:Yeah, so, yeah, so that was my.
Speaker A:My fun little daily challenge anymore.
Speaker B:Yeah, I think that's nice.
Speaker B:You know, there are, like I say there are some brilliant aspects to it.
Speaker B:If you're getting something out of it that's useful, carry on doing it, you know, but why not?
Speaker B:I was going to say something else then, and I can't remember what it was.
Speaker B:No, sorry, it's gone.
Speaker B:One of those bits is Gone.
Speaker A:No, I appreciate that.
Speaker A:It's one that I think is very much a Terry thing and I enjoy it.
Speaker A:It just keeps me check my day interest a little bit.
Speaker A:But is there anything else you want to touch back on or any.
Speaker A:Anything else you'd like to share about this?
Speaker B:I've remembered it.
Speaker B:I remembered it.
Speaker B:So like you've asked me, we were talking earlier about big data and one of the things we can do in the UK is we can ask for big companies to give us through gdpr.
Speaker B:We can say give me my stuff and then delete it.
Speaker B:Thank you very much.
Speaker B:And there was a couple of guys, a couple of academics did a talk in Berlin and one of them, one of the guys wasn't very good at dating and he, it had all gone wrong for like 10 years.
Speaker B:He had a catalog of romantic disasters and of course all that data was stored.
Speaker B:So he said to the, he said to various companies, please give me everything you know about me.
Speaker B:And of course that was decades, years and years and years and years of very detailed information.
Speaker B:So if you did want to look back at yourself and improve yourself, you could download that data, actually use that surveilled data for something good for you, ask it about your strengths and weaknesses, how you've performed over time and come up with a plan which is very accurate, you know, based on you, you give it your goals.
Speaker B:It's a fairly small amount of data compared to what they can cope with.
Speaker B:You could get some really good results out of that.
Speaker B: e had a binge watching day in: Speaker B:So if you wanted to, that would be a good use of all that horrific data.
Speaker A:People have got to think a dreadful thing.
Speaker A:Poor.
Speaker A:I'm going to read.
Speaker A:I was way too scared to do that.
Speaker A:Anything else you want to touch on today, Colette?
Speaker B:I think I'd just say don't, you know, don't be too disheartened with it.
Speaker B:It's in, you know, if you look at Dario Amadei of Anthropic and he's going, this is going to be a.
Speaker B:He didn't actually use the word bloodbath, white collar bloodbath, but journalists did when they reported on him saying like 50% of jobs are going to be gone and it's in their interest to make it look really, really powerful and that it can take over the world.
Speaker B:Even though we all know sat here in our little chairs that it can't.
Speaker B:Don't let the fear kind of really taint your day and make you feel despondent about the future.
Speaker B:There's lots of things we can do and if you start de Googling and looking around, there's lots of things you can do to feel better about it.
Speaker B:And if you find something that helps you, don't feel ashamed, use it.
Speaker B:If you see somebody who is using it because it's not their first language, bite your tongue.
Speaker B:Don't have a, don't have a pop at them.
Speaker B:You know they're using it probably in good faith.
Speaker B:So try.
Speaker B:Just go with your eyes open and don't miss out.
Speaker B:And don't be a lazy slot merchant that needs a punch in the face either.
Speaker B:I think that's, that's what I would say.
Speaker A:I think I've never done this on my podcast before where you see it on some of them, where they put the clip at the start.
Speaker A:I think that would be the clip I'll put at the start.
Speaker A:Don't be lazy slot merchant that needs a punch in the face.
Speaker B:Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely.
Speaker B:It's like Internet marketing on steroids in terms of Wild west, isn't it?
Speaker B:It's just like, bro, have a word.
Speaker A:All right, cool.
Speaker A:Well, big thank you for today.
Speaker A:I really enjoyed it.
Speaker A:I've definitely got a slightly different take on it now and learn some stuff, so I really appreciate that.
Speaker A:Do you want to take a moment to tell people where they can find you that's not going to cause any data problems?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So I kind of decided to do AI 15 months ago before it's turned into a toxic fire pit of hell.
Speaker B:But there we are.
Speaker B:And you can find me@cleverclogsai.com and there's a couple of things on there that are useful.
Speaker B:I've done a big 10,000 word blog post.
Speaker B:There's no opt in or anything about data privacy.
Speaker B:So if that, some of that was interesting, you can look at how you can start protecting yourself.
Speaker B:And some of my experiences that I had with that to try and make it a bit human and not too nerdy.
Speaker B:And I'm also, I've also got some things called AI transparency packs, which are, you know, if you're honest about using AI and saying what you're doing, I think people will cut you some slack.
Speaker B:And if they can sense you're using it and you've not said that you are like you say, you fall down the cracks in the middle.
Speaker B:So there's.
Speaker B:I sort of offer some PDFs for different industries so people can say they're using AI responsibly for the good stuff for the liver transplant, and they're not using it for the slop.
Speaker B:And that can help have those, because we're going to, as a society, we're going to have to have those conversations.
Speaker B:So that's, that's the other thing on there on the website.
Speaker B:There's probably loads of typos on it, and I hate editing it.
Speaker B:Editing your own website is probably the worst thing in the universe, but it's there.
Speaker B:You can go and have a look.
Speaker A:Well, a big thank you for joining me today.
Speaker A:It's been a pleasure.
Speaker B:Thanks, Terry.
Speaker B:Thanks, everybody.
Speaker A:The instructor podcast with Terry Cook, talking.
Speaker B:With leaders, innovators, experts and game changers.
Speaker A:About what drives them.
