In Conversation With... Diana Todd - Part One: Evolution
Terry sits down with Diana Todd to explore her journey into the driving instructor world.
Diana shares how the search for a better work-life balance led her from a high-pressure career into ADI training, just before the pandemic reshaped everything. She speaks openly about the challenges of qualifying, the reality of juggling family and work, and the lessons she learned along the way.
The conversation also dives into blended training, why trust matters in the industry, and the importance of staying open to feedback. Diana reflects on her transition into training others, her admiration for the late Lou Walsh, and how mentoring has shaped her approach.
Honest, insightful, and at times raw, this episode offers valuable takeaways for anyone on their own instructor journey.
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Transcript
The Instructor Podcast with Terry Cook talking.
Speaker B:With leaders, innovators, experts and game changers.
Speaker A:About what drives them.
Speaker A:Welcome to the Instructor Podcast.
Speaker A:This is a show that continues to help you become an even more awesome driving instructor and run a better driving school business.
Speaker A:As always, I am your splendid host, Terry Cook.
Speaker A:I'm delighted to be here.
Speaker A:I'm even more delighted that you have chosen to listen because earlier this year I revamped this podcast, in particular the public portion of the podcast, and made it into a regular monthly show.
Speaker A:So you get an episode at the end of every month.
Speaker A:But one of the things said at the time is that also frees me up to do some of the other aspects around the podcast I enjoy, such as the short lessons and the monthly reviews that I've done.
Speaker A:But it also gives me the opportunity to do this because on this special little section of episodes, I am joined by Diana Todd in the latest installment of In Conversation With.
Speaker A:So put them together.
Speaker A:It's In Conversation with Diana Todd.
Speaker A:And the In Conversation with series is where I go and meet another instructor in person.
Speaker A:We talk for a few hours.
Speaker A:I get loads of stuff together, put them together into episodes and release them all out batched together.
Speaker A:So today is the first of four and I thoroughly enjoyed this conversation with Anna Todd.
Speaker A:In this episode, we are talking about her evolution into the industry, becoming a trainer and then running a driving school.
Speaker A:And it's, it's a fascinating sort of dive into Diana's history, but there's also some real key takeaways that you can pick from this if you listen.
Speaker A:Well, just before we get stuck in, I just want to remind you that if you are a member of the Instructor Podcast premium, you will get these episodes early and ad free as well as all the other stuff that goes in there.
Speaker A:But you will get these early and ad free.
Speaker A:And the best way to sign up is to head to the link in the show notes.
Speaker A:You'll find a direct link over there.
Speaker A:You can still get a free trial or you can even get a 16% discount on a year's membership.
Speaker A:As I said, you find all the links to that in the show notes.
Speaker A:But for now, let's get stuck into the show.
Speaker A:So we're now joined by Diana Todd.
Speaker A:How are we doing, Diana?
Speaker B:I'm really good, thank you.
Speaker B:How are you?
Speaker A:The bit of seeing your smiley face, obviously.
Speaker A:First question, we're in the Wirral.
Speaker A:Why is it the Wirral?
Speaker A:Not just Wirral.
Speaker B:I am the wrong person to ask this of because I'm practically a foreigner still here.
Speaker B:I think it's the Wirral because it's a peninsula and it's also the Asda here, so who knows?
Speaker A:Also, it's just the.
Speaker A:Everything.
Speaker B:It's the.
Speaker B:The home and bargains, not home bargains.
Speaker A:So it's the opposite to dvsa, whereas it's not the dvsa, it's just dvsa.
Speaker A:And I still can't figure out why.
Speaker A:Maybe that's the answer.
Speaker A:The world.
Speaker A:Anyway, no.
Speaker A:Thank you for joining me today on this in conversation.
Speaker A:We're delighted to be here with you.
Speaker A:And we're going to start off talking about your journey, really, in training in general as well, and how you became an adi and then the thing you said he'd never do when running a driving school.
Speaker A:So talk to me about becoming an adi or what made you decide to become a driving instructor?
Speaker B:I think.
Speaker B:Well, first of all, I think the main reason was work, life, balance.
Speaker B:That was genuinely what motivated me to do it.
Speaker B:I think the seed was planted because when I met Stuart, he was training to become a driving instructor.
Speaker B:I genuinely thought it would be easy to become one.
Speaker B:And I know that's not the case, so feel free to, you know, judge me on that, but I thought it would be easy.
Speaker B:And I always had positions of stress, high powered, extreme pressure.
Speaker B:And when I had my daughter, all of the nice cities that came with that just faded into the background.
Speaker B:And I thought, I really want to be able to pick my daughter up from school.
Speaker B:I want to be able to be off for most of the holidays.
Speaker B:Not that I'm off most of the holidays now, but it was that work, life, balance.
Speaker B:And actually there's a local driving school here and I'd see their roof boxes everywhere.
Speaker B:And I thought, that's what I'm gonna do.
Speaker B:And I did.
Speaker B:I signed up to become a driving instructor and then did nothing with it for like two years.
Speaker B:Because high pressure job, like, to please people, like to get the best out of my job.
Speaker B:And then there was an incident and this incident, and I think something.
Speaker B:Something about me and I'm really.
Speaker B:We've had this conversation.
Speaker B:Like, I'm brutally honest and open.
Speaker B:I like to think I'm a decent human being.
Speaker B:And if you challenge my morality, then I absolutely see my backside over it because it's.
Speaker B:It's something that really hurts.
Speaker B:And I had this guy come into this, like, really high pressure job, basically was like, and what the hell have you been doing?
Speaker B:That was like a red rag to a bull.
Speaker B:Now, bear in mind, I'd already signed up to Become a driving instructor.
Speaker B:Hadn't done anything for two years.
Speaker B:And I was like, right, I'm done.
Speaker B:And that instant was really almost a trigger, like a traumatic trigger.
Speaker B:I heard a podcast recently that a lot of good things can come from traumatic triggers, and that was definitely one of them.
Speaker B:So I went off, contacted this local school.
Speaker B:I was like, I know you haven't actually heard from me in two years, but I need to make this happen now.
Speaker B:And it did.
Speaker B:And it was at the time where you could get tests, so that was great.
Speaker B:And I was very fortunate as a PDI in some ways and very unfortunate in other ways, because I decided to become a driving instructor.
Speaker B: working towards it in October: Speaker B: y part one, I think, November: Speaker B: was Valentine's Day, February: Speaker B:So you can see where this is going.
Speaker B:And thankfully, I was going down this rabbit hole of buying a new car, even though I had no income.
Speaker B:Like, literally by this point, I'd left that company or in the processes of leaving, thank God I didn't buy this bloody new car.
Speaker B:What I did do was insure my current car.
Speaker B:I took out one pupil I taught for free for quite some time.
Speaker B:Before that, I taught one pupil.
Speaker B:And then Covid hit.
Speaker B:And it was a good thing and a bad thing for my career journey, if you like, because what it.
Speaker B:What it allowed me to do.
Speaker B:I remember having a conversation with a friend, and she was looking for career changes, and she said to me, I've been Googling Facebook groups and stuff, and it hadn't even occurred to me to Google a Facebook group about driving instructors.
Speaker B:So I did, and then I found Lou's PTI group.
Speaker B:Um, and I sort of placed myself in that.
Speaker B:And I. I started to get a lot of the help that I needed now, in that point of view.
Speaker B:And I'm probably giving you loads of detail here and, And.
Speaker B:And feel free to sort of pick and choose what.
Speaker B:What you like.
Speaker B:But what was good about that was I was getting the foundational knowledge that I needed to be a driving instructor, because I sort of signed up to the Zooms, and I signed up to everything that was on this group that was it, really.
Speaker B:I kind of.
Speaker B:There were some other groups, but quite frankly, I didn't like the other groups.
Speaker B:They didn't feel conducive to be in a learning environment.
Speaker B:Um, but that one did.
Speaker A:And.
Speaker B:I.
Speaker B:Then when the lockdown started changing, I actually got a job as well.
Speaker B:I went from having no job and learning and Having like my ultimate desire, which was spending time with Sophia, to having an income, coming in temporarily, three days a week, working from home, dream job, fantastic, lovely, lovely people.
Speaker B:And then the driving lesson started.
Speaker B:So I went full scale the other way.
Speaker B:And I honestly, tennis is going to sound dead big headed and I don't mean it to be, but because I really, like immersed myself in the training and I thought, I knew, I thought I'd be the bee's knees, right?
Speaker B:I went into these driving lessons.
Speaker B:Like, I know my stuff.
Speaker B:Like, you know, I've.
Speaker B:I've got zooms, I know how to do moving off and stopping and roundabouts.
Speaker B:And I'm going to ask the best goddamn questions.
Speaker B:Yeah, I was awful.
Speaker B:I was awful.
Speaker B:Like, absolutely awful.
Speaker B:I was like, oh, I don't have time to ask that fancy question.
Speaker B:Do I have time to like psychoanalyze you?
Speaker B:I need to keep this bloody thing safe.
Speaker B:So there was kind of like a baptism of fire.
Speaker B:In some ways it was really good.
Speaker B:I had all that foundational knowledge because when I did get better, I could call upon it, but I didn't get the practical experience that I so needed to keep everybody around us alive.
Speaker B:So that was my PDI journey.
Speaker B:So that was the start of it.
Speaker B:And then there was lockdowns.
Speaker B:And I was genuinely relieved, genuinely relieved when lockdowns happened.
Speaker B:Even though I was part of the camp that was never getting paid and, you know, all the rest of it.
Speaker B:So there was a bit of stress added to that.
Speaker B:I was relieved because I thought, bloody hell, this is hard.
Speaker B:I've got to work really, really hard to become this thing that I thought would be easy.
Speaker B:Partly because I never know where I'm going most days, like, I get lost quite easily.
Speaker B:So there was that.
Speaker B:I was fortunate, I say fortunate.
Speaker B:I did put in the effort.
Speaker B:So I passed everything, you know, first time quite well.
Speaker B:And I was then just breathed a sigh of relief.
Speaker B:There's a picture of me with my past photo, part three, all the lockdowns and I look exhausted.
Speaker B:It literally tore drips off me.
Speaker B:And I think it's because it really matters to me that I do well at stuff.
Speaker B:Like I feel that internal pressure.
Speaker B:Although I probably said to people, I just want to pass.
Speaker B:And it did just want to pass.
Speaker B:But I definitely had that pressure.
Speaker B:And the day before, two days before, my husband, poor Stuart, I was like, right, you be the student, I'll be the driving instructor.
Speaker B:This is my plan where I think we're gonna go with this pupil.
Speaker B:And of course I'd ask him Questions.
Speaker B:And he's just.
Speaker B:He wouldn't answer it the way.
Speaker B:And I was like, oh, this is bloody useless.
Speaker B:And I remember the day before the test, I'm shouting and moaning at my poor lovely husband, right, I'm gonna put it on the record.
Speaker B:My poor lovely husband.
Speaker B:And I was like, right, I'm canceling it.
Speaker B:I'm gonna say, I've got Covid.
Speaker B:I'm not doing this.
Speaker B:This pressure.
Speaker B:I'm just gonna work for this other company and I'm just gonna live my best life at home.
Speaker B:And then I pass.
Speaker B:And that was fine.
Speaker B:And I remember texting Lou.
Speaker B:Cause I got out the car and this is something I've noticed, actually.
Speaker B:I think when you think you haven't done that well, you've probably done better than you think.
Speaker B:And what I've found is that PDIs, when they.
Speaker B:When they come out for tests going, yeah, I actually think I nailed it.
Speaker B:They.
Speaker B:They haven't.
Speaker B:So that.
Speaker B:That's an interesting observation.
Speaker B:So I said to.
Speaker B:I messaged Lou, I said, it's been 20 minutes and I can't call this.
Speaker B:And she went, have you got the result yet?
Speaker B:And I was like, nope, I'm still waiting outside the car.
Speaker B:She was the first person I called.
Speaker B:I called Lou before I called my husband, which was ridiculous.
Speaker B:Um, but yeah, I. I caught and obviously I pass and.
Speaker B:And that was fine.
Speaker B:So I was an adi.
Speaker B:Shiny new adi.
Speaker B:I'm going to be honest, I probably marginally took my foot off the gas a little bit because I was like, oh, thank God for that.
Speaker B:You know, we have an income here.
Speaker B:Carried on working with the other company because I really enjoyed that job and I really enjoyed the people that I worked with there and worked from home.
Speaker B:It was great.
Speaker B:And I'm very risk averse, which was ironic because my first lessons weren't.
Speaker B:And I'm risk averse.
Speaker B:I was like, oh, standards check.
Speaker B:And, you know, all the rest of it.
Speaker B:And I had.
Speaker B:I had this other job and income, and quite frankly, I was juggling, juggling too much.
Speaker B:And I passed in the August, and Lou reached out to me in the October, and she said, we're looking for somebody to help, like, you know, a nice person that just wants to help people.
Speaker B:And that was the kick up the backside, I would say, for me.
Speaker B:Not that I was letting standards slip, but I was very much in my sort of comforty zone, which I think I needed, because we're going like August, October, it wasn't that much.
Speaker B:And she said, look, can we have help and.
Speaker B:Or everybody I know.
Speaker B:Told me not to do because they were like, how.
Speaker B:How can you help support PDIs?
Speaker B:Not from a lack of experience point of view, but a lack of time point of view.
Speaker B:You know, you're a mum, you've got this business that you're doing 21 hours for, you've got your driving skill, you've got this, that, and the next thing, best thing that ever did.
Speaker B:Because it made me be better.
Speaker B:It.
Speaker B:It pushed me, as I said earlier, I've got this internal pressure to be like, not the best, but the best that I can be.
Speaker B:And it just made me better.
Speaker B:And why would I not do something to help Lucas?
Speaker B:Go on.
Speaker A:I say, before I get inside, you've warned me about interrupting you today.
Speaker A:I want to talk a little bit about that.
Speaker A:Becoming an instructor before me wants the training aspect because, I mean, first of all, what we'll say is that I'm now 90% convinced that Stuart's name is Paul Stewart.
Speaker B:Oh, my God.
Speaker B:I know, Tell me about it.
Speaker A:Naturally, whenever you don't say Stuart, you say poor, poor Stuart every time.
Speaker A:Because you said it a couple of times about thinking that becoming an instructor would be easy.
Speaker A:And it's interesting because I think I thought somewhat similar.
Speaker A:I'm not necessarily sure that all I said I thought it would be easy, but I just thought it just.
Speaker A:You just do it.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:You know, well, it's an instructor.
Speaker A:There's, you know, from the.
Speaker A:The public perspective of instructors, which is what I had at the time, it was like, well, how hard can it be?
Speaker A:You know, you turn off and you teach people to drive.
Speaker A:So I'm not necessarily sure I would have used the word easy at the time, but it's just like, well, I'm not going to fail that.
Speaker A:There was no consideration initially that it wouldn't.
Speaker A:Wouldn't be done.
Speaker A:Why?
Speaker A:Why did you think it would be easy, do you reckon?
Speaker B:Oh, great question.
Speaker B:I think it'd be easy because I see so many people doing it.
Speaker B:There was literally all of these boards out there and I think I knew how to drive so I could tell people how I do it.
Speaker B:And that will work.
Speaker B:I think that's what it was.
Speaker B:I had enough experience.
Speaker B:Turns out I was a terrible driver, by the way, before that.
Speaker B:But I'm not going to come on your podcast.
Speaker B:There's enough stories of my bad driving pre instructor.
Speaker B:I think that's what my expectation was.
Speaker B:And I have to say my trainer was pretty decent.
Speaker B:Like, I had different sort of people.
Speaker B:And it was that point I thought, oh, hang on, A minute.
Speaker B:You're brilliant.
Speaker B:How are you getting me to think like that and still feel good about myself?
Speaker B:How have you done that?
Speaker B:And actually, I think that that kind of helped me realize this is not going to be as easy as I thought.
Speaker B:But initially I thought you had to be about 55, 60, a man.
Speaker B:Like that was my perception.
Speaker B:And it was just something you did because you couldn't do much else, if I'm honest.
Speaker B:I know that's terrible.
Speaker B:I didn't have.
Speaker B:I didn't have respect.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And actually I went from.
Speaker B:This is.
Speaker B:This is me being brutally honest.
Speaker B:I went from being the director of sales and marketing and international trainer to a driving instructor.
Speaker B:And it didn't.
Speaker B:I didn't love that idea, if I'm honest.
Speaker B:Not from an ego point of view.
Speaker B:Just felt bleh.
Speaker B:And that is terrible.
Speaker A:I. I love it.
Speaker A:I was very similar.
Speaker A:Not, not similar in the.
Speaker A:The role you had, but the similar feelings while driving your shrug day.
Speaker A:I think the interesting bit was that driving aspect you mentioned, because as soon as you said it, I was going to ask you about it, but then you clarified it.
Speaker A:Your driving wasn't good.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:You feel like it's good.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Because we don't know better.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:So we think, well, I'm driving every day, so I must be a good driver.
Speaker A:So therefore I can be a driving instructor.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And then you find out, oh, actually, my driving isn't up to scratch.
Speaker A:Because I remember it was that point where I thought I might struggle here.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Because the theory, you know, I just give him a couple of books and an app to use and did it.
Speaker A:And then it's like past it and should have done more on it 100%.
Speaker A:But you didn't, you know, and then the driving bit is like, oh, hold on.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:What do you mean?
Speaker A:Should be in a high egg area.
Speaker A:I always do it in this game.
Speaker A:What do you mean?
Speaker A:I should be checking the, you know, all that aspect.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And then there was a real panic for me, like, can I.
Speaker A:Can I do it?
Speaker A:Do you reckon that's common in a lot of people?
Speaker A:That idea of they think they can drive so they can be an instructor, but then also realizing that they can't drive that well, they can just get from A to B. Yeah.
Speaker B:A hundred percent.
Speaker B:And I also think that people come into this job because they like driving.
Speaker B:I'm like, but you are not the driver, you're the teacher.
Speaker B:Now, interestingly, my part two, this is interesting, actually.
Speaker B:You've just kind of made me reflect on this because my part two training, there was no real light bulb moments for me when he was like, well, you need to do this better.
Speaker B:In fact, I think we only had a handful of lessons.
Speaker B:He was like, you'll be fine.
Speaker B:So it must have been all right.
Speaker B:But it's actually since I've become a driving instructor and trainer that I've reflected on previous decisions and I think it did me.
Speaker B:It was a benefit to me being in the Widow because I didn't know the areas he's taking me to.
Speaker B:All these areas, I didn't bloody know that any of them.
Speaker B:So I was on high alert focus.
Speaker B:If he'd done it in an area that I'd lived in, I think my driving would have been worse.
Speaker B:I did had that complacency, but from that point of view, it was quite good.
Speaker B:So I think he thought I was better than I was anyway.
Speaker B:But I wholeheartedly know that I was not a good driver before.
Speaker B:Absolutely poor choices, motivated by lots of different things.
Speaker B:But yeah, I think people come into it and even, even my mom and dad, I remember, I remember talking about some of my driving lessons and some of the things that I do and they'd be like, but you're just teaching them to drive, Diana.
Speaker B:And I think that public perception as well.
Speaker B:So it's just societal, you know, it's not an overly respected profession.
Speaker B:And I think for that reason people think they can do it quite easily.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:No, I think I agree.
Speaker A:It's that polar perception that people have of instructors because they drive every day.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:I don't think it's necessarily a negative perception.
Speaker A:A lot of the time.
Speaker A:It's just like, this is what people do.
Speaker A:It's like you said, we all job, you know, you felt like potentially felt like a step down.
Speaker A:Yeah, for me it was a bit different.
Speaker A:I came from McDonald's, so I, I used to, I worked on the building sites and then there was a Christmas where I could only get work on roofs and it was snowing.
Speaker A:I'm like, I don't want to work on roofs in snow.
Speaker A:And my partner at Times suggested, Go McDonald's, it'll be warm in kitchen.
Speaker A:Like that's a good idea.
Speaker A:She was joking.
Speaker A:I'm like, no, I'm gonna do that.
Speaker A:And I.
Speaker A:And I went there and I loved it.
Speaker A:And I stayed there five years, went more up and stuff, and then ended up leaving for different reasons.
Speaker A:But so for me it was like, I didn't quite have that same thing because I just worked at McDonald's and I'd gone in there having that negative image of McDonald's and realized that I was wrong.
Speaker A:It's actually got 16, 17 hours working there, but they're clued up.
Speaker A:They do a good job, you know.
Speaker A:So I think that little shift for me, one as prominent.
Speaker A:But.
Speaker A:But yeah, I think you reckon that's what we should be getting across more.
Speaker A:You know, I know there's been talk previously, suggestions and ideas about making the driving test or the advanced test before the part two, before the part one, basically swapping them around.
Speaker A:Obviously we can't control that, but do you reckon that we should be getting that message more out?
Speaker A:Almost.
Speaker A:If you're thinking of becoming an instructor, they get your driving assessed first.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:You know, whether that's somewhat like the IAM or Ross, or whether that's just going to an instructor and getting your results, but reckon that's a message we could get out more.
Speaker B:Definitely.
Speaker B:And I think we're trying to, if I'm honest, you know, we talk about blended training and the benefits to it.
Speaker B:I don't think many people talk about the benefits.
Speaker B:They sort of tend to just talk about doing it holistically.
Speaker B:But I'm all for explaining why.
Speaker B:Why the benefit of doing part three training whilst you're doing part two and part two training whilst you're doing part one and how it's going to help you.
Speaker B:But the problem is, I had a conversation just yesterday with, with someone is that message just isn't getting out there.
Speaker B:It's not.
Speaker B:It's not.
Speaker B:It's the perception.
Speaker B:People just think part one, part two, part three, a bit like pupils sometimes as well, and finances as well.
Speaker B:I think that plays a big part in it.
Speaker B:And also maybe just the way our biology works.
Speaker B:I talk about things holistically and I. I did part one, part two, part three, and I'm.
Speaker B:I'm a list creator.
Speaker B:I have to work through it systematically.
Speaker B:So perhaps biology plays a part in it.
Speaker B:And I know we'll come on to this later, but Stuart, even when I'm training Stuart and I'm saying to him, poor Stuart.
Speaker B:Poor, yeah, absolutely poor me when it comes to training him.
Speaker B:But that's a whole other story.
Speaker B:He wanted to do it and he got the message loud and clear.
Speaker B:He's like, no, no, no, I just need to do part one, I need to do part two, I need to do part three, it's not gonna work.
Speaker B:And it didn't.
Speaker B:Didn't work.
Speaker B:And we'll come back to that later.
Speaker B:But mostly because of the test waiting Times and stuff like that as well.
Speaker B:So yeah, and I.
Speaker B:We're trying.
Speaker B:So from a school perspective, we push that a lot.
Speaker B:It's part of our PDI pack.
Speaker B:It's part of.
Speaker B:I really took a lot of time to speak to this lady yesterday who has done part one and her question to me was, are you going to offer me a package, you know, to go on the franchise?
Speaker B:And this is the other thing.
Speaker B:I think people think that it's a franchise or it's pay as you go, just training.
Speaker B:And I said it has to work right for you.
Speaker B:So whatever from our discussions comes out is right for you.
Speaker B:That's what we're going to do for you.
Speaker B:Because finances do play a part in it as well.
Speaker B:But I cannot stress enough because what she wanted was a pay as you go driving instructor to pass our part to.
Speaker B:And my advice is if you want to be good at something, teach it, learn to teach it and then you will buy into it because you're the one that's trying to relay that information.
Speaker B:So you're the one that's looking into the reasons on why you're saying that and you will naturally buy into it.
Speaker B:So that makes sense to me and I took the time to explain that to her.
Speaker B:So I'm hopeful, I'm hopeful that we can find a way to help her sort of blend those two within the timelines that the DVSA give us as well.
Speaker A:I think the problem sometimes is people only ask one question.
Speaker A:So for example, they would ask you, what's the benefit of doing it 3, 2, 1.
Speaker A:You know, if you like having them 1, 2, 3 or you know, blended, and you will give them an answer and they will listen to that answer, then they will go away and they will ask someone else, what's the benefit?
Speaker A:And that person will say, it's pointless, just do it this way.
Speaker A:Yeah, but they don't ask the follow up question.
Speaker A:They just ask that and then what they've got is they've got two different perspectives but they haven't got the detail as to why.
Speaker A:Yeah, and I think that's what, that's what people miss.
Speaker A:And I don't think we can actually change that.
Speaker A:You know, we can, obviously we can talk to individuals, but I don't think we can change that.
Speaker A:So when you ask that person says just do 1, 2, 3.
Speaker A:Anyone that's trying to give you this newfangled coaching nonsense, whatever they will say, so why, yeah, that person is then going to be stuck because really the only answer and give, oh, we Might save you some money, we'll get you through quicker, that it's not really a genuine answer.
Speaker A:But then we come to you and I'll ask you, because you mentioned it, the benefits of that blended training.
Speaker A:What are the benefits of that blended training?
Speaker A:And they ask you that, hopefully you're going to do it.
Speaker A:Now give me a more comprehensive answer.
Speaker A:What are the benefits of blended training rather than 1, 2, 3.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So I think for me the benefits are that when we are doing part two training, and I'll, I'll do that, not to dismiss the part one because that definitely plays a part in it, but when we are doing that part two training because it's easier to articulate, we are not teaching it as finessing your skills on what you've already had.
Speaker B:We're doing it from day.
Speaker B:As if you were a new learner.
Speaker B:And the benefits for that to me and to them is that one, we're showing them how you would teach it as a skill.
Speaker B:We're introducing the reflection point and then we're saying to them, how do you think this might work out if it was a pupil doing this?
Speaker B:And they've never done it before, what things might crop up here and you're starting to get them to think about it.
Speaker B:I had a lovely example the other day where a driving instructor, a pti, he's not done part one yet and we're doing part two training and we're sort of blending the part one, part two, and we're doing moving off and stop him, he's a taxi driver, he knows how to move off and stop.
Speaker B:But I was saying, and what I noticed was every time he pulled in, he would look in his left mirror to line up the curb.
Speaker B:He did it brilliantly.
Speaker B:There was no problems with it at all.
Speaker B:And I just got him to think about it.
Speaker B:And I'd said, what I've noticed is, I said, this isn't a negative at all.
Speaker B:I'm just, you know, if it's okay, can I share?
Speaker B:I've noticed you're looking in that left mirror as you're pulling up and it's working out brilliantly for you.
Speaker B:How do you think that might affect a learner doing it for the first time?
Speaker B:And he was like, oh, they might steer into the curb.
Speaker B:It's like, uh huh.
Speaker B:I was like, lovely.
Speaker B:I love the fact you've recognized that already.
Speaker B:Anyway, and we went on and I said, so how are you going to teach them?
Speaker B:Because if you do that, how, how are you gonna teach them to do it because you don't want to create something that's gonna cause a problem.
Speaker B:So what's your thoughts?
Speaker B:And we just explored that and we went, we went into it in more detail and he was like, bless his heart.
Speaker B:He did say something really funny, which made me laugh.
Speaker B:And I'm gonna share it if you don't mind.
Speaker B:But it proper made me laugh.
Speaker B:He was like, well, I need him to look ahead.
Speaker B:I was like, right.
Speaker B:And I said, okay, but is looking in the left mirror helping?
Speaker B:Cause I want.
Speaker B:I didn't necessarily want him to dismiss it if it works for him.
Speaker B:And you know, really curious as to how it would work.
Speaker B:And blessed his heart, he said, I could get them to have one eye on the left mirror, one eye out front.
Speaker B:And I'm ashamed to say I did chuckle at that.
Speaker B:I was like.
Speaker B:And I think I said to him, I was like, try that for me.
Speaker B:See how that works out for you.
Speaker B:But that's what I mean, you know, that's something that just popped into his head and it was fine and we had that nice environment and it's moving off and stopping.
Speaker B:He's a taxi driver, but the fact I've got him to think about his driving and what he's doing now and before he's even done part one is helping him with the part three, because he's never going to introduce that now.
Speaker A:And we're just taking a quick break from today's conversation to tell you about the Instructor Paul Podcast Premium.
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Speaker A:But for now, back to the episode.
Speaker A:Do you know what?
Speaker A:I think that's it.
Speaker A:What you can do in there is you're creating problem solving.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And then they can take that to their students.
Speaker A:And I think to not to defer that into part three, it's then you've got to learn something new.
Speaker A:It's like, well, you do it this way and then Change it.
Speaker A:It's like, well, no, no, you don't need to change it.
Speaker A:Start doing it that way from the scratch.
Speaker A:And I think that that's the thing.
Speaker A:So when you get someone inquiring and they ask that first question and we get those responses and you don't ask the follow up question, which one sounds better?
Speaker A:The one that costs you less money potentially.
Speaker A:Again, I don't think we can change that other than to get the message out.
Speaker A:But it's that follow up question.
Speaker A:And it's the same on lessons, it's the same with your PDI's.
Speaker A:Adis.
Speaker A:It's just a follow up question that works.
Speaker B:But.
Speaker A:Yeah, let's.
Speaker A:I want to ask you about Lou because you said you joined Lou's group.
Speaker A:She was the first person you messaged when she passed.
Speaker A:Was it like the training and, you know, with Lou and Lou's group?
Speaker A:And why was she the first person you messaged rather than your husband?
Speaker B:I actually don't think he even knows that Lou's the first person that I called.
Speaker B:So that's slightly awkward.
Speaker B:Admiration springs to mind.
Speaker B:That's probably the first words that comes to mind with Lou.
Speaker B:I get quite emotional when I think about Lou, so forgive me if I croak up a little bit.
Speaker B:But wouldn't cross her ever, not once would I ever do that because, oh God, I, I, I was like a little puppy wanting her.
Speaker B:What's the words?
Speaker B:Appreciate.
Speaker B:No, not appreciate.
Speaker B:Approval.
Speaker B:Thank you.
Speaker B:Yes, approval.
Speaker B:And I remember actually in the whole PDI journey, I did send her a video and I've got a lovely, lovely video of Lou giving me feedback.
Speaker B:And it was just wonderful.
Speaker B:It was wonderful feedback.
Speaker B:And said in a way that just felt like a warm hug being wrapped around me because I wasn't in the best way when I was training because I was getting those conflicting messages that we were talking about.
Speaker B:She was just brilliant.
Speaker B:And I mean brilliant.
Speaker B:And she had the benefit of, you know, obviously Blaine is brilliant, but she just brought a different perspective to things.
Speaker B:She thought about things in a way that I don't think has been really shared before.
Speaker B:And I would, I would sometimes answer something or think about something in a way and then she'd come along and answer it and I'd go, that's like next level brilliant.
Speaker B:Like absolutely spot on brilliant.
Speaker B:And it wasn't an experience thing, it was a loo thing.
Speaker B:She had a way of looking at things completely different to anybody else.
Speaker B:Selfless is another word that I would say that I would associate with Lou.
Speaker B:I think she Would give you all of her time and then more.
Speaker B:She would travel, she would watch videos, she would message you like, God, 11 o' clock at night, and she was up at 5 in the morning to help other people.
Speaker B:And I think that's.
Speaker B:That's something that I admired, but I also think I'm wary of becoming because I think I tried to emulate that a little bit.
Speaker B:I wanted to help everybody and do everything, but it was detrimental to my own health and wellbeing, if I'm honest.
Speaker B:And that's just my reflection.
Speaker B:But, yeah, selfless, caring, kind, brilliant, bloody good.
Speaker B:Bloody scary.
Speaker B:And I mean bloody scary in a way that I had her in the back of my lessons a couple of times, and I don't ever choose the easy option.
Speaker B:I could have taken her because she'd seen my lessons that were good.
Speaker B:She'd given me some lovely feedback.
Speaker B:I took it into my lesson when I was struggling, and it always plays on my mind.
Speaker B:I thought, God, does she think I was a bit shit because I brought I know you're gonna have to put explicit name on this podcast sauce.
Speaker B:Because I took her into.
Speaker B:Because I valued her opinion so much that I took her into the lessons when I really needed her help.
Speaker B:And that mattered more to me.
Speaker B:It mattered more that I got her help.
Speaker B:And I do that with anybody.
Speaker B:It's too easy to put them in the back of the lessons.
Speaker B:And I'm not egotistical.
Speaker B:I'm not.
Speaker B:I know when I need help.
Speaker B:So I'll get you in the back of my crappy lessons because that's what I'm paying you for.
Speaker B:Do you know what I mean?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So that, that, that was.
Speaker B:That was that.
Speaker B:And I think.
Speaker B:I think on the PDI group, it was a genuinely supportive space for everybody.
Speaker B:I remember.
Speaker B:And I mean everybody, including the people that were managing it.
Speaker B:So at the time, it was.
Speaker B:It was just.
Speaker B:It was Blaine, Lou, Laura and I.
Speaker B:And then Laura and I went to the conference and got Covid.
Speaker B:And we absolutely got floored with the pair of us.
Speaker B:And when I say supportive.
Speaker B:She was so supportive of us and making sure that we got better as well.
Speaker B:Very protective of her time.
Speaker B:You know, if I was going away, she'd be like, please don't reply, please don't message.
Speaker B:She'd often give up her time to just talk things through.
Speaker B:I saw another side to Lou.
Speaker B:I saw a sassy side to Lou.
Speaker B:Yeah, I saw.
Speaker B:I just.
Speaker B:I love her.
Speaker B:Like, in my mind, she could do no wrong.
Speaker B:And massive, massive loss to the industry.
Speaker A:I didn't know her that well.
Speaker A:I think she was still sussing me out.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:But one thing I did notice, and this has come from speaking to other people mainly, but, like, she almost had an eye for talent.
Speaker A:She wasn't afraid to go and go, let's do this, you know, let's try this.
Speaker A:And, you know, I spoke to Laura Morris, who was the first person I had this, did this in conversation series with, and she said somewhat similar.
Speaker A:And it's like Laura hadn't been qualified long when Lou went, right, come and do this and Laura's gone.
Speaker A:Yeah, but I don't feel I'm ready.
Speaker A:I don't care.
Speaker A:You're doing it.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Is that similar to how it was with you?
Speaker A:Did you feel ready when she pulled you?
Speaker A:And unspoiled?
Speaker A:Second question, why do you think Lou asked you, what were the qualities she saw in you?
Speaker B:Oh, I love that.
Speaker B:I love that question.
Speaker A:Sorry, I've asked you several so far.
Speaker A:That's the first one you said that about, so that must mean you was cracking.
Speaker B:I said it once before, so you clearly weren't listening.
Speaker B:I was not ready.
Speaker B:I wasn't ready when she asked me, or I certainly didn't feel ready.
Speaker B:But the way she asked me was so magnificent because she sent me this message saying, well, first of all, she set up a group chat.
Speaker B:Me, Blaine, Laura, Lou.
Speaker B:And I thought, well, that's clearly a mistake.
Speaker B:I remember thinking it, oh, I'm in a group chat by mistake.
Speaker B:And there was nothing sent.
Speaker B:It was just the group chat.
Speaker B:And I was like, well, whatever.
Speaker B:I thought I might linger here, see what's happening.
Speaker B:And then she reached out and said, you know, we've got a PDI group.
Speaker B:I'd already been kicked out, graduated to the green side.
Speaker B:And she'd said, we need help.
Speaker B:We need people that we can trust.
Speaker B:We need people that are going to be there to support these PDIs with their questions that they need.
Speaker B:And upon having several conversations, there's only.
Speaker B:I can't remember the exact way she said it.
Speaker B:Said, There's 1.8 people that we trust and you bring 1.5 of that or something.
Speaker B:Something like that.
Speaker B:And I was like, oh.
Speaker B:And I was like, yes, yes, yes.
Speaker B:She said, would you consider helping us out?
Speaker B:Ah.
Speaker B:Honestly, I just.
Speaker B:Probably one of my proudest moments, like I say, my mum was like, what the hell are you doing, Diana?
Speaker B:You have no time, Stuart.
Speaker B:You are not doing this.
Speaker B:Like, as if.
Speaker B:As if that was gonna work.
Speaker B:It was very much like, you have no time.
Speaker B:And I said, no, this will Be good for me.
Speaker B:This will be really good for me.
Speaker B:And I don't mean that in terms of, again, ego or anything like that.
Speaker B:I thought this is going to make me better so that my job gets easier and therefore I can help others.
Speaker B:That is what I thought.
Speaker B:Qualities I think she saw in me was I wasn't afraid to put myself forward.
Speaker B:And when I say self forward, I mean be humble.
Speaker B:So I respected Lou so much that I would send her, you know, I would question stuff on the zooms.
Speaker B:I told her on the zoom.
Speaker B:I was like, listen, Lou, you know, I genuinely thought I'd be.
Speaker B:The bee's knees went out after this lockdown.
Speaker B:Tried asking your questions.
Speaker B:They didn't work for me because guess what?
Speaker B:See what I say?
Speaker B:Have you got a way of figuring that out?
Speaker B:And the people goes, no.
Speaker B:I go, yeah, me neither.
Speaker B:Let's go.
Speaker B:You know, so she got it.
Speaker B:I remember kind of smiling, going, yeah, yeah, I hear you on that.
Speaker B:And that's just an experience thing.
Speaker B:So that was interesting.
Speaker B:So I've asked that openly on zooms and stuff like that.
Speaker B:I also.
Speaker B:I said earlier I got some lovely feedback on a video.
Speaker B:I also got some really shocking feedback on video because I was awful.
Speaker B:And I put it out there, and she asked me, would you like your feedback privately?
Speaker B:Would you like it on a zoom that we shared or, you know, would you be happy for it to be over Facebook?
Speaker B:And I thought, God, this woman gives up so much of her time.
Speaker B:She didn't once charge me for those things.
Speaker B:If you can take use out of me putting this video forward, then, yes, let's.
Speaker B:Let's go for it.
Speaker B:I didn't think it would be a Facebook Live, so.
Speaker B:So she watched my video, and then I got the feedback on a Facebook Live where everybody else watched the video and then commented on it.
Speaker B:And it was.
Speaker B:It was awful.
Speaker B:Like, it was my country roads lesson.
Speaker B:My country roads lesson now is superb.
Speaker B:Like, absolutely superb.
Speaker B:Because our.
Speaker B:Because the devil wasn't in the detail.
Speaker B:It just wasn't good enough, really.
Speaker B:And she did it in such a way where I came out of this Facebook Live lesson with, quite frankly, a really awful lesson.
Speaker B:It's out there in public domain.
Speaker B:Feel free to, like, check it out.
Speaker B:And I came out of it feeling good about myself.
Speaker B:And, you know, I was very open, very receptive to feedback.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:And I think that is the key sort of values, code, instructor sort of skills that we have to have.
Speaker B:We have to have.
Speaker B:And I don't know, because I never asked her, maybe I did ask her, but I can't recall what the answer was.
Speaker B:I probably would have been too embarrassed to ask her, but I think that's maybe what she saw.
Speaker B:Somebody that wasn't afraid to get feedback, somebody that just genuinely wants to help people and somebody who doesn't think they know it all.
Speaker B:Because I openly admitted.
Speaker B:I don't.
Speaker A:I think, I think the one that interests me there is something that I don't know if I don't recall hearing being mentioned before, that word trust.
Speaker A:And I think it's such a big thing that, like, you look at that example you gave Lou and go Green, that's her business.
Speaker A:The PDI group is her group built up this reputation and established it as what it is.
Speaker A:She needs to trust the people that are coming in.
Speaker A:And it's like, I think about that way.
Speaker A:For example, this podcast.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:You know, it's, it's.
Speaker A:It's trusting the guest.
Speaker A:It's trusting that in the, the five years I've done it, I've had two guest hosts on both.
Speaker A:On International Women's Day, I had Emma Cottington and Laura Joyce.
Speaker A:Like, trusting that they're going to do a good job.
Speaker A:Not explicitly.
Speaker A:It's not live.
Speaker A:I will check it first, but it's, you know, do you think that I try not to put this in a negative way, but you think that's something that's missing in a lot of instances, you know, can you support driving school, your, your driving school as the example here in the trusting that your PDIs are going to do a good job and represent the brand properly.
Speaker A:You know, trusting that your learner is going to go and do a good driving test.
Speaker A:Yeah, do a good driving test.
Speaker A:Poet in that, you know, trust in the.
Speaker A:Someone's going to represent your brand.
Speaker A:Do you think that it's considered enough?
Speaker A:Do you think it's considered.
Speaker A:Because I think I thought about it before, but it's not something I've ever mentioned before.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:I think that's where the bigger you get and the more you scale, there's a risk of, of.
Speaker B:Of that trust being tarnished slightly.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:I don't think it's as high up the radar as it should be for everyone actually involved.
Speaker B:And it matters to me.
Speaker B:And this is what I'll say even to my learners.
Speaker B:And this is terrible.
Speaker B:Well, maybe it's not terrible business sense, but if my learner comes to me and wants to give me a block of lessons, I talk them out of it often.
Speaker B:In fact, always, pretty much.
Speaker B:I'll say it really.
Speaker B:It really Matters.
Speaker B:Matters to me that you feel confident, you trust me, I'm the right person for you.
Speaker B:So let's just pay for one driving lesson with the expectation you'll come back the next week, but it is absolutely wholly okay if you don't.
Speaker B:I'm okay with that.
Speaker B:Please be.
Speaker B:Be okay with telling me I'm not the right person for you, because that is so important and there will be zero offense.
Speaker B:I've not had anyone not come back, so I. I can't relate to how it might feel.
Speaker B:I've definitely had people stop lessons, you know, for.
Speaker B:For various reasons, but I haven't had anyone not come back the next week.
Speaker B:And I'd have to analyze that.
Speaker B:I think I've.
Speaker A:I've got a different way of phrasing it, which is if you go home and your mum asks you how your driving has been and you say, can't stand that Terry is the right knob, then just text me.
Speaker A:You don't have to tell me that.
Speaker A:That's my job.
Speaker A:Don't tell me I'm a knob, but just tell me that it's cool, you're going somewhere else.
Speaker A:I won't take offense because again, we were speaking on this before.
Speaker A:It's building up trust, building up credit.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Whether that's with your learners, your pdi.
Speaker A:So this is kind of the opposite around that.
Speaker A:You're building up trust for your learns.
Speaker A:You'll build up trust for your PDI's, your ADAs, the listeners, the mentors, whatever it might be.
Speaker A:So that when you make a mistake, because you're human, and you will, you've got that credit in the bank where someone goes, that's not like them.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:So much wrong.
Speaker A:And they'll come to you and say, you okay?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:You know, I don't think that's done enough.
Speaker A:I really don't.
Speaker A:I think that there's too many people.
Speaker A:Forget our industry.
Speaker A:There's too many people in the world that go, what do you owe me?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Oh, God, yeah.
Speaker A:You know, it's the cultivar.
Speaker A:Say, what film was I watching over there?
Speaker A:It's not American Courting.
Speaker A:It's not what Churchill quote.
Speaker A:It's not.
Speaker A:Not what you can.
Speaker A:What your country can do for you, but it's what you can do for your country.
Speaker A:It's almost that, what can you do for other people?
Speaker A:Rather than just looking and going, what can they do for me?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Because I do you find this.
Speaker A:The more that you do for others.
Speaker A:There will always be some people that take advantage, of course, but the More you do for others, the more they will happily do back.
Speaker A:And that has a big reciprocal effect, a hundred percent.
Speaker B:I had.
Speaker B:I remember recently, because I'm very protective of everybody else's time and stuff like that.
Speaker B:And I remember.
Speaker B:I remember speaking to one of our lovely mentors, Chris, and she said, oh, I've.
Speaker B:I've taken this person out and I've done this and I've done that and.
Speaker B:And I said, okay, did you.
Speaker B:Did you charge for that?
Speaker B:I don't know how we got into money.
Speaker B:She's like, no, no, I did that.
Speaker B:And I said, but how long did it take you?
Speaker B:She was like, oh, well, it was about half a day.
Speaker B:You know, I showed them all the routes and I did this and I did that.
Speaker B:And I said, but you need to be mindful of your time.
Speaker B:Do you know what?
Speaker B:She turned around and said to me, she went, you did that with me?
Speaker B:And I went, oh.
Speaker B:I was like, did I?
Speaker B:And she was like, yeah.
Speaker B:She went.
Speaker B:So I was paying it forwards.
Speaker B:And I said, it's interesting, but I do.
Speaker B:I still do that.
Speaker B:But I was so protective of her time that it became obvious to me that we shouldn't always do that.
Speaker B:You know, it's just something to be aware of.
Speaker B:And I think actually, to answer the question, with the trust thing, with the training and the PDI training, there was an element as well where I sought external training because I didn't trust what I was getting was good enough.
Speaker B:And I think that kind of.
Speaker B:And like I said it before, my trainer was good.
Speaker B:He was okay.
Speaker B:Very reactive, though, so I didn't quite know what I didn't know.
Speaker B:So I trusted my own instincts.
Speaker B:I think that's important as well.
Speaker B:I trusted that he had enough knowledge to get me through, but not enough to solely rely on him.
Speaker B:And I think that's important as well because there's so many people out there that recognize there's something just not quite working and they don't do anything about it.
Speaker B:So I'm going to suggest trust your instincts on that.
Speaker B:Any good trainer worth their salt is not going to care if you seek external resources as long as they're, you know.
Speaker B:Well, I don't think they'll care that you seek external resources to supplement your training, as long as it doesn't hinder what's going on in the car.
Speaker B:And I think that's something we're really keen to get across.
Speaker B:It's not Diana's way or no way.
Speaker B:It's not support driving school or no way, you know, we get our franchisees to use your podcast.
Speaker B:We get.
Speaker B:We've suggested that the mentors go on the bright coaching diploma.
Speaker B:There's lots of resources out there that you can gain.
Speaker B:A lot of different perspectives, or people might just say something in a different way where the penny will drop, whereas I might say it in a way that it's just not quite making sense.
Speaker B:So trust your own instincts on that as well, I think, would be my top tip.
Speaker A:I think the other thing I'd chuck in, and I've mentioned this a few times recently, actually, but it's just asking the question.
Speaker A:No.
Speaker A:So if your trainer is saying something doesn't sit right, ask them, not, don't challenge them.
Speaker A:But, yeah, explain that to me.
Speaker A:What's the benefit of that?
Speaker A:What's a negative of that?
Speaker A:Whatever.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And I think that if they're a decent trainer, they'll happily answer that.
Speaker A:And if they can't answer that.
Speaker A:Almost going back to the example you gave with Lou before when you were reciting some of those phrases.
Speaker A:It's not working.
Speaker A:It's because they're not.
Speaker A:They're not your phrases.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:Now, there'll be some that work.
Speaker A:There'll be some that resonate with you straight away and you can just adopt.
Speaker A:But if it stopped, everything that someone says, it's not your thing.
Speaker A:And then when the PDI or the learner or whoever it is challenge you on it, you're then stuck and you go, well, hold on, I don't know.
Speaker A:Like the example you give.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:So, yeah, I think just asking.
Speaker A:And if you see.
Speaker A:Go elsewhere, you come back to our training.
Speaker A:So and so said this what you thought.
Speaker A:Someone in your trainer goes, moans, then that's a good sign that someone's not quite right.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:If they come back and give you a constructive thing as to why it's wrong.
Speaker A:Great.
Speaker A:If they come back and say, oh, that's a good idea, great.
Speaker A:I think it's looking for that, you know, just that moan and grumbling, oh, you've gone somewhere else.
Speaker A:You know, how dare you.
Speaker B:I always try and find the positives in what another trainer has said and then make a point of sort of almost celebrating the positives that they've said.
Speaker B:And then I make a point of saying to PDIs, if there's anything that I see or somebody else has said where you're thinking, I'm not getting that, or I don't understand why that's important, please ask.
Speaker B:Because, like you said, because.
Speaker B:And I actually say to them, please challenge me.
Speaker B:And Chris actually did challenge me.
Speaker B:She was like, I don't get what you're saying.
Speaker B:And I said, right, do me a favor.
Speaker B:I'm gonna have a little look, because I'm clearly not articulating what I'm trying to say.
Speaker B:Well, have a little look for yourself.
Speaker B:Do your own research on that.
Speaker B:And I'm gonna do a little bit of research and see if I can find a way of getting my point across a bit better.
Speaker B:I was like, but can I just be dead clear?
Speaker B:I love the fact that you voiced this.
Speaker B:I love it because I'm not.
Speaker B:What I'm doing now isn't working.
Speaker A:Here's a specific example from me.
Speaker A:Very, very recent.
Speaker A:And a student.
Speaker A:The last lesson that come up to me, Terry, I need to.
Speaker A:I need to tell you something.
Speaker A:Like, really timid.
Speaker A:Good God, what is it?
Speaker A:You know, they complain or something, what I done.
Speaker A:And she's like, I'm getting another instructor.
Speaker A:Oh, Christ.
Speaker A:What?
Speaker A:Have that.
Speaker A:Why?
Speaker A:She goes, oh, no, no, not Eustace.
Speaker A:I'm off to uni.
Speaker A:I've been accepted to a different uni, and so I'm going to get another instructor there.
Speaker A:But she got a test booked in December.
Speaker A:She said, I still want to come back here and take my test.
Speaker A:So is it okay, do you think, if I come back and have my test for you and do some more lessons?
Speaker A:I'm like, yeah, of course it is.
Speaker A:She's like, oh, you know what?
Speaker A:No class, not good.
Speaker A:Here's the deal.
Speaker A:You.
Speaker A:When you go sort of instructor and come back, you have to tell me what they did better than me.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:So I can gain somewhat from it as well.
Speaker A:It's like, I'm excited.
Speaker A:I get to go and learn some.
Speaker A:Hopefully, you know, there's a bit of me, though, so crap.
Speaker B:So that may look good, but, yeah, totally.
Speaker A:I want to come back.
Speaker A:I wanted to ask you a bit more about becoming a trainer because you spoke about how you got into Diana's group.
Speaker B:Diana's here.
Speaker A:I got names today.
Speaker A:It's not going well.
Speaker A:The only one I can remember is Paul Stuart, obviously come into Lewis Group and helping others talk me about that transition to becoming a trainer.
Speaker B:Oh, gosh.
Speaker B:I think it happened quite.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Holistically, naturally, because it started off by me just having several conversations with people where they'd maybe failed.
Speaker B:Lou had shared some of my videos in the group.
Speaker B:So people just started naturally reaching out to me, saying, gosh, I didn't.
Speaker B:I don't ask as many questions as you or.
Speaker B:I like the way you did that.
Speaker B:How did you do that?
Speaker B:I think I posted some things like awareness, anticipation, planning, little mind map stuff.
Speaker B:And that was it, really.
Speaker B:I didn't, I wasn't.
Speaker B:Because I just thought that would have been helpful for me or it was helpful for me.
Speaker B:So you guys have it.
Speaker B:And I think that's how it started.
Speaker B:And I would often have conversations, like half an hour, 45 minute conversations where people would just chat and say, you know, like, you've got lovely pupils, they seem to answer your questions or how do you do that?
Speaker B:And I'd say, I promise you, I'm just asking the question that comes to mind.
Speaker B:I've not got this bank of questions that I go to or they share with me that something had happened.
Speaker B:And then I would, I would almost help them work through it a little bit so they'll say, oh, I'm having a string of fails.
Speaker B:This, this springs to mind.
Speaker B:And I said, okay, well, what are your fails for?
Speaker B:And they tell me, and we'd break it down that, that there was a lack of skill in some of them.
Speaker B:Even though the faults were completely sporadic, there was a consistent skill going wrong with several of these.
Speaker B:These fails, if you like driving test fails.
Speaker B:So it just started from that.
Speaker B:And then I would have people reach out and say, oh, would you watch a video?
Speaker B:Or I would offer, because that was one of my go to free cpd, start recording yourself, critique it yourself, and if, you know, you want to send it to somebody to watch for you, that was wholly beneficial for me.
Speaker B:So I would say that to them and I would watch.
Speaker B:Takes hours to watch it, but it certainly took me hours back then because I'd pause it.
Speaker B:I'd be watching every little bit of this video to make sure I didn't miss a trick because again, I held myself accountable to get it right.
Speaker B:Even though I wasn't getting paid.
Speaker B:This was all I saw it as my development.
Speaker B:And I think that's how it just.
Speaker B:It just started.
Speaker B:And that was it.
Speaker B:It kind of just.
Speaker B:I was just helping lots of people all the time.
Speaker B:And I did that for about three years where I was just constantly just checking in with people, making sure they were okay.
Speaker B:I was learning from Laura, I was learning from Lou, learning from Blaine.
Speaker B:And then Phil joined.
Speaker B:So I started dipping my toe in the water with actually training PDIs.
Speaker B:I never wanted to sponsor one.
Speaker B:Never, not once.
Speaker B:I did not want to do that.
Speaker B:It felt like too big a responsibility.
Speaker B:And I've always said I never, I never wanted to manage people or own a driving school ironically.
Speaker B:So it Naturally happened and I dipped my toe in the water.
Speaker B:But again, it wasn't for me, it was for them.
Speaker B:So there was somebody in Liverpool and I said, oh, I'll help you, you know, I'll come in, I'll sit in the back of your lessons, blah, blah, blah.
Speaker B:Chris was in Witness, you know, so just, just lots of people reaching out.
Speaker B:And I think it just naturally came from there.
Speaker B:And I thought, I need to, I need to do right by these people.
Speaker B:I need to make sure that what I'm saying, what I'm doing is, is correct.
Speaker B:And I think that's where it stemmed.
Speaker B:And then Lou asked me to deliver some Zoom sessions as well.
Speaker B:So then I just made sure that I was good enough.
Speaker B:Like I made sure that I knew my stuff.
Speaker B:I mean, not, not to show what I knew, but more to make sure that I was helping the people that needed it, that were on that Zoom.
Speaker B:I think.
Speaker B:Yeah, just, it just happened, to be honest with you.
Speaker B:But I have, I have come from a training background, so every single job, every single one, including I worked at McDonald's, every single job, I became the trainer.
Speaker B:And I didn't actually see that happening when I was a PDI because I genuinely wanted work, life, balance, wanted to have this so called easy life.
Speaker B:It was going to be easy to qualify, et cetera.
Speaker B:And then it just didn't.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So I think that's where it came about.
Speaker B:And then Phil joined and we set up Inspire.
Speaker B:So, yeah, that's how it kind of all came about.
Speaker A:It's interesting because again, there's parallels because I no desire to sponsor people don't appeal to me.
Speaker A:I like the training aspect but not the ongoing stuff.
Speaker A:But when it comes to.
Speaker A:There you go.
Speaker A:I asked this on the 660 episodes I did once and the answers were interesting.
Speaker A:So I'm going to ask you, are you a better trainer, driving instructor or driver?
Speaker A:Which are you best at?
Speaker B:Oh, I'm gonna say.
Speaker B:Oh, I think it's changed.
Speaker B:I would have said trainer, but the better at training I get, the better driving instructor I become.
Speaker B:If I'm on it, I'm a good driver.
Speaker B:That is the most wishy washy answer ever.
Speaker B:I'm gonna say driving instructor.
Speaker A:What's the biggest strength as a trainer?
Speaker B:Ooh.
Speaker B:I have no assumptions on whether you're actually gonna be able to let me think about this properly.
Speaker B:My biggest strength as a trainer.
Speaker B:I don't think I have an assumption of what you can or can't do.
Speaker B:Therefore, I just work with you on what you present me with.
Speaker B:And I'd say that's similar as a driving instructor.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Has no preconceived ideas of what you can or can't do.
Speaker A:What's your biggest weakness?
Speaker B:My weakness is I. I hold.
Speaker B:I. I ask a lot of fancy dancy questions, and that's not always right for the person that I'm training.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker A:And.
Speaker B:I expect people to put loads of work in.
Speaker B:Like, I'm like, this is gonna be hard, people.
Speaker B:You need to put the work.
Speaker B:And I can be quite.
Speaker B:I don't know, really.
Speaker B:Frustrated's the wrong word.
Speaker B:But I want them to do well and I want them to feel the sense of urgency that they need to put in.
Speaker B:Therefore, I can be a bit like, right, what have you done?
Speaker B:What did you learn?
Speaker B:How.
Speaker B:How's that work?
Speaker B:You know, and.
Speaker B:And I'm.
Speaker B:I'm a bit.
Speaker B:Not pushy, but more for their own development.
Speaker A:I like them.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker A:Do you want to take a minute to tell people where they can find you and where they can go to find stuff?
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:So we are at Inspire Instructor training.
Speaker B:Phil Cowley and myself.
Speaker B:That's Inspire instructortraining.com We also run support driving school, which you very well know where we are all over the uk.
Speaker B:We have instructors in Devon, all the way up to Bonnie, Scotland, and we're hoping to get those messages out that we've talked about today.
Speaker B:Cool.
Speaker A:Well, awesome.
Speaker A:I really enjoyed this first part of this in conversation with them.
Speaker A:We'll look forward to recording some more, but big thank you for now.
Speaker B:Thank you so much.
Speaker A:The instructor podcast with Terry Cook, talking.
Speaker B:With leaders, innovators, experts and game changers.
Speaker A:About what drives them.
