Mini-Cast #1 - Kevin Sellwood & Sarah Hall
Terry Cook welcomes listeners back to the Instructor Podcast with an exciting lineup featuring two distinct guests, Kevin Sellwood and Sarah Hall, who each bring their own unique perspectives and experiences from the driving instruction world.
The episode kicks off with Terry discussing the purpose of the podcast: to enhance the skills of driving instructors and improve the operations of driving schools. Kevin, a former driving instructor and podcast host, shares his journey of getting back into the groove after experiencing personal setbacks that dampened his enthusiasm for podcasting. He opens up about the life events that affected him, including family losses and the challenges of engaging with guests for his own podcast.
Kevin's renewed passion is evident as he discusses his eagerness to explore the quality of driver training and the misinformation prevalent in the industry. The conversation highlights the importance of consistent communication and the need for instructors to stay informed and engaged with their craft.
Sarah Hall, the second guest, adds a vibrant energy to the discussion as she shares her transition from teaching learner drivers to working with car manufacturers and engaging in advanced driving and fleet training. She embodies the spirit of versatility, taking on roles that allow her to explore precision driving and even partake in motorsport events.
Sarah emphasizes the significance of planning and awareness in driving, drawing parallels between her racing experiences and the skills necessary for safe driving on public roads. Her insights into the 'body language of cars' shed light on the subtleties that experienced drivers often perceive, underscoring the need for awareness that goes beyond basic driving techniques. The episode wraps up with an encouraging message about the evolving nature of driving instruction and the opportunities that lie ahead for both guests and listeners alike.
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Takeaways:
- Maintaining enthusiasm and structure in podcasting is important to avoid burnout.
- Kevin Sellwood shares his journey of rediscovering passion in podcasting after personal challenges.
- Sarah Hall discusses her transition from teaching learners to advanced driving and fleet training.
- The concept of 'body language of the car' emphasizes awareness of other drivers' intentions.
- Both guests highlight the need for accurate information in driver training and education.
- Exploring the opportunities that arise within the driving industry, including unique experiences like rallying.
Transcript
The Instructor Podcast with Terry Cook talking with leaders, innovators, experts and game changers about what drives them.
Terry Cook (Host):Welcome to the Instructor Podcast.
Terry Cook (Host):This is a show we help you become an even more awesome driving instructor and run a better driving school.
Terry Cook (Host):As always, I am your splendid host, Terry Cook.
Terry Cook (Host):I'm delighted to be even more delighted that you have chosen to listen because we are back with a special episode for you.
Terry Cook (Host):I have decided to do something a bit different and I put a link out to my Zoom scheduler and allowed people to book 15 minute sessions to come and record on whatever topic they wanted.
Terry Cook (Host):And that's what we've got for you.
Terry Cook (Host):Today we are joined by two amazing people have come on to talk about the thing that you wanted to talk about.
Terry Cook (Host):So today we are joined by Kevin Sellwood and Sarah Hall.
Terry Cook (Host):So very different people, very different topics, but I'm sure you'll enjoy it.
Terry Cook (Host):So just before we get stuck in though, I do want to point you in the direction of the Instructor Podcast premium because if you are enjoying these episodes, a sign this you're at the podcast premium.
Terry Cook (Host):There's loads more of this stuff.
Terry Cook (Host):There's a massive variety and a massive back catalog.
Terry Cook (Host):The risk of scaring you, there's over 200 hours worth of stuff over there, this new stuff going on all the time.
Terry Cook (Host):But it's a little bit different to what we put out in the public feed.
Terry Cook (Host):We tend to go a bit more in depth, a bit more of a deep dive on things.
Speaker C:You also get these episodes early.
Terry Cook (Host):So premium members will be listening to this now, three days before you do.
Speaker C:But not just that.
Terry Cook (Host):If you are enjoying the podcast, if you've been listening, especially if you've been listening for a while and you get a news from it, why not just sign up and contribute ten pounds a month towards the podcast being con, being run and being developed and being produced anyway, you're more than welcome to do that even if you don't want to make use of all the content.
Terry Cook (Host):The best place to go is the instructor Podcast website where you can find out more details.
Terry Cook (Host):That's www.the instructorpodcast.com or you can head straight to sign up.
Terry Cook (Host):There'll be a link in the show notes for that, but for now let's get stuck into the show.
Speaker C:How are we doing, Kevin?
Kevin Sellwood:I'm fine, thanks very much Terry.
Kevin Sellwood:Good to see you again.
Speaker C:Oh, it's good to have you on board.
Speaker C:When I, when I put these up, you were the first person to jump on.
Speaker C:You gave me a really good description.
Speaker C:The topic you wanted to cover.
Speaker C:So what is it we're talking about today?
Kevin Sellwood:Well, I think really it's a case, as I said to you, of sort of getting back into the swing of it, as you may, or, you know.
Kevin Sellwood:But other people probably don't know that.
Kevin Sellwood:I run what was called the XL podcast E Xel because I'm based down near Exeter in Devon.
Kevin Sellwood:And a few things occurred sort of the second half of last year, which meant.
Kevin Sellwood:I don't know how I lost enthusiasm for it, but things happened.
Kevin Sellwood:We had a rather unfortunate situation with a family member which I'm not going to go into.
Kevin Sellwood:It's not very pleasant, I'm afraid.
Kevin Sellwood:But then also, my wife's brother died very suddenly in September.
Kevin Sellwood:It was sudden because he was 85, but he'd won a golf tournament the day before.
Kevin Sellwood:Then he had a ruptured a altar.
Kevin Sellwood:Virtually nobody ever survives from them.
Kevin Sellwood:And he lasted four days.
Kevin Sellwood:So both of those things sort of.
Kevin Sellwood:Sort of deflated me a bit.
Kevin Sellwood:And also I'd had a bit of trouble with a couple of people who were fairly.
Kevin Sellwood:I wouldn't say they were awkward about coming on the podcast, but the platform they were trying to use and it just didn't work.
Kevin Sellwood:And I thought, oh, crikey, you know.
Kevin Sellwood:And then we went to Australia for five weeks, which was a much more pleasant thing to happen.
Kevin Sellwood:But I knew that was coming as well, so things sort of drifted.
Kevin Sellwood:And I thought I was at the test center at some point.
Kevin Sellwood:Not that I go there very often because I only work three days a week now.
Kevin Sellwood:And somebody said to me, when's the next episode?
Kevin Sellwood:And I thought, oh, well, at the moment there isn't one.
Kevin Sellwood:I thought, well, why not, you know, let's use next year.
Kevin Sellwood:And I've got to say things.
Kevin Sellwood:I feel a bit more enthusiastic about doing it.
Kevin Sellwood:We are taking on people.
Kevin Sellwood:I don't want this to become a rant.
Kevin Sellwood:Taking on people from other training providers, shall I say, that are a little bit disappointed with what they're getting or even not getting in some cases.
Kevin Sellwood:So my whole sort of enthusiasm for things is coming back again.
Kevin Sellwood:So I really want.
Kevin Sellwood:I thought if I use this talk to you the the Guru of Instructor podcast, that it would get me fired up again as well.
Speaker C:Well, well, that last comment has got you an extra minute.
Speaker C:So there you go.
Speaker C:I think.
Speaker C:You know what, I'll be completely honest with this.
Speaker C:One of the things I find really difficult to manage, and I mean no offense to anyone when I say this, because I know they ever only ever say it with good intentions is when people say, keep doing what you're doing.
Speaker C:I'll keep up the good work.
Speaker C:I'm like, this is really hard.
Kevin Sellwood:Yes.
Speaker C:I don't want you to tell me to keep going.
Speaker C:I want you to give me a hug and say, it's going to be right at the end.
Speaker C:Because especially if you look at your perspective, you're creating this free resource for people.
Kevin Sellwood:Yes.
Speaker C:You don't earn anything from it.
Speaker C:You know, it's great for us.
Speaker C:You know, I'm not hiding the positives.
Speaker C:We can, it helps publicize stuff.
Speaker C:It gets us in contact with people who may not have been in contact with before.
Speaker C:It's good promotion.
Speaker C:You know, there's a lot of positives there, but there's a lot of work goes into it.
Kevin Sellwood:Yes.
Speaker C:And it's free for, for everyone at point of use.
Speaker C:And I, I think we've spoke about it before, actually, where, where you said you fell off the horse a bit before and you should have been recording, but you was, you went out with your wife and I remember saying to you, you've got a wife and family to go out with.
Speaker C:Yeah, I, I, I ain't got a wife.
Speaker C:I just got divorced at time and I'm sat all in my flat feeling sorry for myself.
Speaker C:You know, there's, there's two sides to every coin.
Kevin Sellwood:Yeah.
Speaker C:So do you think potentially you almost being a bit harsh on yourself in that respect?
Kevin Sellwood:Yeah.
Kevin Sellwood:I think it needs somebody like you to sort of say that like all of us, we, our industry in particular, we're so insular, really, that we go on and on doing what we do and we don't know whether we're really doing it to the best of our ability or not.
Kevin Sellwood:And until somebody comes along and says, well, yeah, that's, that's great, or it's not, we don't really know.
Kevin Sellwood:So I think that bit was a selfish thing coming on here.
Speaker C:That's not a bad thing.
Kevin Sellwood:No.
Kevin Sellwood:Right.
Kevin Sellwood:I knew you would sort of be saying the sort of things you are saying.
Speaker C:Well, I think the other thing to consider is the schedule of the podcast, because there's a reason why I do seasons.
Speaker C:It's because I know that if I commit to doing, for example, one a week, I won't do it.
Speaker C:Now, I tend to do 50 or 60 episodes a year anyway.
Kevin Sellwood:Yeah.
Speaker C:So in theory, I'm doing more than one a week.
Speaker C:However, if I commit to one a week, that's too stressful for me.
Speaker C:So how I tend to do it, I do my seasons because I know, I can go all in for free month, twice a year, and then I do loads of other bits around it.
Speaker C:So I just wonder, is a schedule something you could sit over?
Speaker C:Fortnightly, monthly, ad hoc episodes?
Kevin Sellwood:That's where I started work because I did this originally for two and a half, three years ago, solely for people in this area, just to give them some support because people there were a lot of new ADIs PDIs.
Kevin Sellwood:There's still a lot.
Kevin Sellwood:And that's another issue that does concern me a little bit, the quality of some of the information they get before they even start.
Kevin Sellwood:But that's going to take us down another garden path if I'm not careful.
Kevin Sellwood:But it's.
Kevin Sellwood:Yeah, I started off doing it fortnightly, which was easy, and then I sort of went up to weekly, which were.
Kevin Sellwood:The thing about it is that you've got to be disciplined, you've got to have a structure, you've got to plan ahead.
Kevin Sellwood:And if you do and you go and ask people.
Kevin Sellwood:I have had nobody ever say no to me.
Kevin Sellwood:Well, in fact, no, I have had one person and that was due to personal circumstances, which I fully understood.
Kevin Sellwood:But everybody says yes, whether it's the instructor down the road from me or whether it's Bob Morton or Chris Benstead, everybody says yes.
Kevin Sellwood:So that's the encouraging thing about it.
Kevin Sellwood:I know that when I start again, I will have plenty of people who will be prepared to come and give their two pennif.
Speaker C:Well, you're doing better than me because I've had at least two people say no, one of whom was the author Matt Hick, and the other's love Day Rider.
Speaker C:So, you know, see if you can get lovely on Aim high.
Kevin Sellwood:Yeah, or low, whichever way you want to put it.
Speaker C:Lillian Greenwood hasn't said no yet.
Speaker C:She hasn't replied, admittedly, but she hasn't said no yet.
Speaker C:So you never know.
Kevin Sellwood:She has written a very nice letter to my MP in reply to an inquiry I made, or some comment about test times and all this sort of thing.
Kevin Sellwood:So at least I've had a reply from her in writing through a third party.
Speaker C:Well, let me throw an idea at you for the podcast, because I know initially, and I know it's kind of changed slightly a little bit over the years, but initially it was very much focused at your local area.
Speaker C:But one of the things I've seen you talk about online recently and one of the things you put in the topic and the thing you mentioned twice in the seven minutes we've been recording so far is about the misinformation that feels like something you're quite passionate about at the minute.
Speaker C:Could you.
Speaker C:I'm not saying change the podcast, but you could almost do a miniseries on quality control.
Kevin Sellwood:Yes.
Speaker C:Find that thing that you're passionate about and care about.
Kevin Sellwood:Yeah.
Kevin Sellwood:I think it pains me when I see the people on Facebook who are.
Kevin Sellwood:It's not misinformation, it's.
Kevin Sellwood:It's lack of it.
Kevin Sellwood:It's like when the parent comes to you and.
Kevin Sellwood:And says, can we start driving lessons next week?
Kevin Sellwood:You know, and it is very difficult not to stifle a laugh at that, you know, but the thing is, they genuinely don't know the situation.
Kevin Sellwood:People.
Kevin Sellwood:If you've got no experience of driver training or learn learners and tests and the way it is, you just don't know.
Kevin Sellwood:And people who ask about, can we do an intensive course?
Kevin Sellwood:So there is a lack of information out there.
Kevin Sellwood:Now, I'm not saying I want to go down the road of parents, it's more the side of the training, but it's the.
Kevin Sellwood:And it is people who don't know or they're halfway through and they suddenly find they're in a contract that they didn't really read properly and now they're trying to get out of it and, you know, I feel sad for them.
Kevin Sellwood:There's a lot of criticism of some of the national providers.
Kevin Sellwood:I was really encouraged, though, this morning when I read something that was the total opposite of people who are really praising some of the national providers.
Kevin Sellwood:And in some parts of the country, clearly it is working well.
Kevin Sellwood:So it's, you know, you can't tar these people nationally with the same problem down here.
Kevin Sellwood:You can.
Kevin Sellwood:One of them has no trainer at all south of South Wales.
Kevin Sellwood:Anybody from Bristol downwards has to go to South Wales for training and they don't know that until they start.
Kevin Sellwood:But it's, you know, it is.
Kevin Sellwood:That idea has been going through my mind as well.
Kevin Sellwood:Why not do a series of things and strictly sort of focus to helping people know what the information is or what they should know before they start.
Speaker C:Yeah, I'm glad you mentioned about not tying everyone the same brush, because I was with a national provider when I started and, yeah, my trainer was really good.
Speaker C:Look, I caveat this by saying it was just before the part three changed.
Speaker C:It was when you sell the exam, the PSTs.
Speaker C:That's the phrase I'm looking for.
Speaker C:It was that.
Speaker C:So there was a very different type of training, but, yes, I got on with a lot of what he did and it was always there for me.
Speaker C:And I won't mention the school.
Speaker C:I will do a red driving school.
Speaker C:They were really, really good for me.
Kevin Sellwood:So the ones who I've read about today and people really praising them, there are one or two down here who are a little bit disappointed in what they're getting.
Kevin Sellwood:But yeah, it's easy to criticize when you're not.
Kevin Sellwood:Not being in the situation, not being in the car.
Kevin Sellwood:I get very.
Kevin Sellwood:You want to be very careful about whether I really want to criticize somebody or not.
Speaker C:Well, I'll tell you what, I'm just going to ask you this question because it's something I spoke about recently.
Speaker C:Chris Spencer's on a Green Room episode, which is gaps in training.
Speaker C:Because if you're.
Speaker C:Let's say it's.
Speaker C:You took a year to train, let's just use that figure of a year.
Speaker C:12 months.
Speaker C:You can't possibly cover everything in 12 months, otherwise there'll be no need ever for CPD.
Speaker C:So, yes, there's crucial things we have to get in.
Speaker C:Obviously there's crucial things.
Speaker C:But do you think that a lot of the gaps in trainings we hear about are gaps, or do you think it's just certain things that trainers prioritize over others?
Kevin Sellwood:That's a difficult question to answer.
Kevin Sellwood:Again, without not being seeing a particular track.
Kevin Sellwood:I think it's probably a bit of both.
Kevin Sellwood:I think there are some trainers out there who have not really invested in their own training to be able to train people to become instructors.
Kevin Sellwood:And there are some gaps there.
Kevin Sellwood:And I, I've spoken to one person recently, I said, do you know about the GDE matrix?
Kevin Sellwood:Do you know about the national standards of driver and rider training?
Kevin Sellwood:And I might have been on.
Kevin Sellwood:It was.
Kevin Sellwood:Been on a different planet.
Kevin Sellwood:And I think, well, you don't talk about them specifically to learners or, or maybe even to instructor training, but somehow you incorporate those things into your training.
Kevin Sellwood:And the trainers who don't.
Kevin Sellwood:Don't even know about some of these things, I think are really doing us a disservice.
Kevin Sellwood:I know Mick Knowles and Lee Jarrett are passionate about this.
Kevin Sellwood:Go to a trainer who's invested in their own training as well, rather than somebody who thinks it okay just to start up as a trainer.
Speaker C:Yeah, I get that.
Speaker C:But I look at the podcasts, not just podcasts, but YouTube channels, content within our industry.
Speaker C:And while we've been talking our thinking about it and there's a lot, there's a lot of good stuff out there, but I think the thing that's missing at the minute is that information.
Speaker C:It is that kind of technical aspect.
Speaker C:Everyone's doing the interviews.
Speaker C:This is what I do.
Speaker C:So everyone's doing the interviews.
Speaker C:Everyone's doing the mindset stuff and the standards check stuff.
Speaker C:It's all around this.
Speaker C:There's no one out there putting out this solid information.
Kevin Sellwood:So maybe there will be soon then.
Speaker C:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker C:You know, even whether it's.
Kevin Sellwood:Just get that in quickly because I can see the timer going down.
Speaker C:Don't give my secrets away.
Speaker C:But no, there's.
Speaker C:Whether it's just a miniseries, whether it's an ongoing thing, one a month, however, it's ad hoc and you could mix it in more other stuff.
Speaker C:But I.
Speaker C:If you did that, you would be doing the thing that I preach about, which is something different.
Kevin Sellwood:Yeah.
Speaker C:I don't think anyone.
Speaker C:Maybe it's not.
Speaker C:I've missed, but I don't think anyone else is doing that.
Kevin Sellwood:That might have been part of the thing.
Kevin Sellwood:I'm doing the sort of same thing as everybody else, but, you know, you.
Kevin Sellwood:Thank you for that.
Kevin Sellwood:I'm glad I came on here now.
Speaker C:Oh, well, There you go.
Speaker C:14 and a half minutes and we got you.
Speaker C:Glad you came on.
Speaker C:That's not bad.
Speaker C:Well, no, I'm.
Speaker C:I'm pleased to come on with this topic because I do think that it's.
Speaker C:People don't always realize what goes into these and it's a free resource and I'm glad that you took the time off you needed and I hope I had a good time while you're away as well.
Speaker C:In Australia, New Zealand.
Speaker C:I've been once an amazing place, but I hated it.
Kevin Sellwood:Couldn't wait to get back.
Speaker C:I don't believe that for a second.
Speaker C:Have you got what you wanted from this 15 minute recording?
Kevin Sellwood:Yeah, definitely.
Speaker C:Excellent.
Speaker C:Do you want to take a minute just to tell people where they can find you if they want more?
Kevin Sellwood:Well, yes, you will be able to find me on the Excel podcast.
Kevin Sellwood:I'm not sure it's active at the moment, but it's going to be again very soon.
Kevin Sellwood:So it's Exel podcast.
Kevin Sellwood:Yeah.
Kevin Sellwood:And there's plenty of past episodes there to go look at from the great and the good and the not so great and good, or not so great.
Speaker C:Shall I say the great, good and even me.
Speaker C:But yeah, no, well, thank you.
Kevin Sellwood:I did make sure that I, when I looked at the categories of the instructor intelligent instructor awards that I.
Kevin Sellwood:That I had put voted for you, because all the other people on there, I didn't know who they were anyway, so I'm not.
Kevin Sellwood:I'm not offending Any of the usual suspects.
Speaker C:I will finish third in that award.
Speaker C:That is my prediction now.
Speaker C:But no.
Speaker C:Thank you for joining us there, Kevin.
Speaker C:It's been a pleasure chatting to you and to you.
Kevin Sellwood:Great to see you and catch up with you again soon.
Speaker C:So we're now joined by the wonderful Sarah Hall.
Speaker C:How are we doing, Sarah?
Sarah Hall:Yeah, I'm great, thanks.
Sarah Hall:How are you?
Speaker C:All about seeing your smiley face, obviously, and I've already said that to you once there, but there you go.
Speaker C:But you filled in the little form that I'm getting people to fill in when they're coming in for these slots.
Speaker C:And your topic you want to talk about was everything with, I believe it was six G's on the end.
Speaker C:So let's talk about everything in 15 minutes.
Speaker C:You're through.
Sarah Hall:Well, we've tried this before, Matt.
Sarah Hall:I reckon we've just been about a four hour unofficial podcast between me and you.
Sarah Hall:So, yeah, good luck for 15 minutes.
Speaker C:I want to talk about what you're doing now because you messaged me about coming on here and said you weren't sure what to talk about but you wanted to come on.
Speaker C:And I asked kind of where you're at and he said you're not teaching learners anymore but you're still obviously in the industry.
Speaker C:So I want to know what you're up to now because A, it's been too long since I've spoken to you and B, we've not had you on the podcast.
Speaker C:Radies.
Sarah Hall:Yeah, it feels like it's been quite a while, doesn't it?
Speaker C:Yeah.
Sarah Hall:So not teaching learners at the minute, I was finding with the other things that I was doing it wasn't fitting in for me.
Sarah Hall:But also it wasn't really ideal for them either.
Sarah Hall:I need to be able to commit to them if I'm going to take people on.
Sarah Hall:So I felt like that wasn't the right move at that particular time.
Sarah Hall:So I'm doing some advanced driving stuff and some fleet training and that kind of thing.
Sarah Hall:So I'm still doing that on road.
Sarah Hall:But most of what I'm doing is working for car manufacturers doing quite an array of things really.
Sarah Hall:So it can be anything from performance driving, precision driving stuff, racing myself, if you can call it that loosely, doing something like that on a track and then doing a lot of training as well for the manufacturers.
Sarah Hall:So it can be either their guests, all their dealership network stuff.
Sarah Hall:So any new car launches coming out, new car tech, all that's a lot of stuff.
Sarah Hall:We cover and do training for them.
Sarah Hall:So it's quite an array, which is great because I like variety.
Sarah Hall:I can't sit in one place too long.
Sarah Hall:But yeah, it's hectic as well.
Speaker C:I just want to ask you a little bit about not working with learners anymore because it's something that I spoke about in my Premium membership recently that I did a recording with Dan Hill and he was saying, take this opportunity to ask yourself, is this the right thing for you?
Speaker C:So obviously it's not for you at the moment.
Speaker C:So I suppose two part question, was it hard stopping?
Speaker C:And the second part is, do you reckon you'll come back to that aspect of.
Sarah Hall:It was a very hard decision because it was a hell of a lot of work to get there and achieving the ADI qualification was a stressful process and it meant a lot to me.
Sarah Hall:I worked really hard to get it.
Sarah Hall:So to feel like I was failing or giving up wasn't a nice feeling.
Sarah Hall:I don't process that feeling very well anyway and beat myself up quite a lot about it.
Sarah Hall:But in the end it was the right decision at that moment in time.
Sarah Hall:Career and personal reasons meant that it.
Sarah Hall:It was the right decision and I don't feel bad about it now.
Sarah Hall:Although there's definitely some elements I miss some that I've done.
Sarah Hall:Same with any job, I guess.
Sarah Hall:But would I go back?
Sarah Hall:Yeah, I'd definitely consider it.
Sarah Hall:I want to keep that qualification there.
Sarah Hall:I want to do some professional development and stuff.
Sarah Hall:I'm always looking at avenues for that.
Sarah Hall:I'm not giving up on it.
Sarah Hall:It's just not the path that I need to be on right now.
Speaker C:I was about to go almost telling you off mode for beating yourself up, but you said you're over that now, so that's good.
Kevin Sellwood:But I'll try.
Speaker C:Yeah, I can imagine why that's difficult though.
Speaker C:But you've got to do what's right for you in the long run.
Speaker C:And part of what you said there is part two training.
Speaker C:I know that you're looking to do this with instructors and part two training, so I'm.
Speaker C:Well, I.
Speaker C:I've said this before and I haven't done it, but you're someone I want to come to for some training around this thing.
Speaker C:Obviously I don't need to pass about 2, but for some training around the driving, because I.
Speaker C:I think you've got quite a unique perspective of this.
Speaker C:We are.
Speaker C:With your background.
Speaker C:So is there elements of that that your.
Speaker C:Your background, the stunt driving, the.
Speaker C:The racing, the precision driving, all this stuff that you bring into your training?
Sarah Hall:Yes and no.
Sarah Hall:It's.
Sarah Hall:It's Quite a difficult one to explain.
Sarah Hall:I always find that, because I think the impression that would give from the outset, or the likes of maybe a young new driver's parents, for example, I don't really put that out there so much because it can have a negative attachment to it because obviously the road is not the place to race and all those kind of good things.
Sarah Hall:So it's understanding that I'm not directly bringing those elements into learner driving or even fleet driving and stuff.
Sarah Hall:However, sort of underneath it all, without really labeling it.
Sarah Hall:Yes, there's definitely some elements of it in there.
Sarah Hall:Car control and the empathy for the controls of the car.
Sarah Hall:Why would you use the controls in a certain way?
Sarah Hall:That's a really big part of it.
Sarah Hall:And also planning an awareness side, because that's my book, Bear out on the road anyway, with a lot of drivers and we can all improve that.
Sarah Hall:But for anything, precision racing, motorsport, anything like that, you have to have fast reactions and you have to be thinking a few steps ahead of what's happening on a track because everything's moving a lot faster, so you don't have any time to react to things like you might do on the road.
Sarah Hall:So being able to see things in advance is a real benefit, I think, and hopefully try and pass a bit of that on, if nothing else.
Speaker C:Is there any specific part of that planning awareness, like a common theme, if you like that you see from full license holders things that they're not doing?
Sarah Hall:Yeah, people just don't look far enough ahead, generally, or anticipate what someone else is going to do.
Sarah Hall:I think sometimes you can use a lot of clues on the road or you can use a lot of clues with people's, what I would say body language, but it's the language of the car that you can see, you know, which direction the wheels facing, all those sort of little things that a lot of people tend to miss or potentially just kind of get a bit complacent with.
Sarah Hall:There's a lot of things out there like that you can pick up on.
Sarah Hall:And it sounds so simple when you're coaching, but actually by the end of the drive, you've got someone really looking for things.
Sarah Hall:And just having that awareness means the got loads more time to plan for an inevitable incident because it's happening all the time, there's that many cars that fast, so at least if you can save yourself from someone else's mistake, it's better than nothing.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:I think it's interesting you refer to it as body language of the car, because I do that I call it body language and it's not.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:You can't call it car language.
Speaker C:That sounds.
Speaker C:But I think that this is.
Speaker C:It's almost where instructors have that sixth sense.
Speaker C:You know, they can sense what another car is going to do, but they don't necessarily know why.
Speaker C:I think it's the body language of the car because if we look at.
Speaker C:When we're around other people, we get those.
Speaker C:That feeling around someone and it's often the body language of that person.
Speaker C:It's just a subtle thing and.
Speaker C:And it's the same with cars.
Speaker C:Am I right there, do you think?
Sarah Hall:Definitely.
Sarah Hall:Totally agree with that.
Sarah Hall:I think it's not even necessarily one thing.
Sarah Hall:It's probably an.
Sarah Hall:A whole cluster of small things that individually don't mean a lot, but it just gives you that vibe about the driver and what they're doing and their attitude.
Sarah Hall:You can pick up a lot of that sometimes, and that's the same on the track as well.
Sarah Hall:You can get that intention from somebody, whether they're going to be aggressive, whether they're going to be quite tame with you, whether they're going to let you through, whether they're going to try and shunt you off the track when they overtake you.
Sarah Hall:You can get a 5 off pizza quite easily the more you do it.
Sarah Hall:So I think it's really important to understand that.
Speaker C:Are you an aggressive driver on the track?
Sarah Hall:Nowhere near enough, no.
Sarah Hall:I try because you have to be.
Sarah Hall:You have to be aggressive to be able to race.
Sarah Hall:But there's a line between aggressive and fair and hard driving and holding your line and not letting people push their way through.
Sarah Hall:And then also, same as on the road, you get punished if it's an incident.
Sarah Hall:You've got a racing license, they'll put points on it, they can disqualify you, all that kind of stuff.
Sarah Hall:So you do have to be careful.
Sarah Hall:I'm relatively new to competition racing, really, so I'm fairly tame as far as the scale of aggressive racing drivers goes.
Sarah Hall:I'm very tame, but it's just learning every time you go out looking at those sort of things and being a bit braver and just trying to push the boundaries a bit without being an unfair driver.
Sarah Hall:It's hard work.
Speaker C:I.
Speaker C:I'm.
Speaker C:Well, I.
Speaker C:I'm not the biggest motorsport fan, but I used to really like Formula 1 and I.
Speaker C:I don't anymore.
Speaker C:I find it quite dull now, if I'm being honest, but I used to.
Sarah Hall:Love it and that's for a racing driver.
Speaker C:There you go.
Speaker C:Well, there's no overtaking anymore.
Speaker C:That's the issue.
Speaker C:Anyway, another topic, we'll put that one aside.
Speaker C:But I don't know.
Speaker C:I always think back to Michael Schumacher because he was the.
Speaker C:The biggest advocate for improving safety and putting in harsher rules.
Speaker C:But he always said as long as the rule is here, I will drive to this point, even though I'm campaigning it for it to be changed, I'll use it while it's there.
Speaker C:So I just wondered where.
Speaker C:Where you're on that.
Speaker C:So aggressive but not aggressive enough.
Speaker C:Interesting.
Sarah Hall:I basically, yeah, because when you get up to those sort of levels, the real professional levels, you have to be very aggressive.
Sarah Hall:The only way to survive.
Sarah Hall:I'm doing clubman level stuff so I've got leeway really to be as not aggressive or as aggressive as I want and that will determine how part of my racing career goes.
Sarah Hall:Really.
Speaker C:Does that help when you're driving through a city centre at rush hour?
Sarah Hall:You know what, yes and no.
Sarah Hall:Because realistically it's a completely different environment and there's definitely an element of security that you feel in a race car.
Sarah Hall:I've got full safety cage, helmet, all that sort of stuff.
Sarah Hall:And even then you are out there feeling like, well I don't want to do that because that's a brick wall and that might hurt or that's another car and that might.
Sarah Hall:That is in the back of your mind on the road it's just a totally different vibe.
Sarah Hall:I think I almost.
Sarah Hall:I can deal with it calmer now on the road I would say because I can deal with actually quite high stress situation on a track.
Sarah Hall:Stress on the road is not the same stress anymore like that used as a driver, I think on the road in a really stressful situation.
Sarah Hall:That's usually the max stress you're going to get as a driver is those horrible situations of traffic and horrible drives and everything else.
Sarah Hall:Whereas when you race it's like that stress is up here somewhere.
Sarah Hall:So now this one feels okay.
Sarah Hall:I feel like I can just deal with that family.
Speaker C:I will pick your brains about this properly another time.
Speaker C:But I want to ask you about.
Speaker C:I think it was the Caribbean, was it Africa you were recently doing?
Speaker C:Tell me about that.
Sarah Hall:Yeah, just over a year ago I went to do some rallying in Barbados as you do.
Sarah Hall:Yeah.
Sarah Hall:So I've got a contact pal of mine who came over here from Barbados to do some rallycross when I worked with the championship in the uk.
Sarah Hall:So we kept in touch and he was basically bringing this event to life, which is the Barbados Rally Carnival.
Sarah Hall:So it was two weeks of just motorsport, rum and a bit more rum.
Sarah Hall:And yeah, it was brilliant.
Sarah Hall:He said, you want to come over and do it?
Sarah Hall:Obviously I say yes to that.
Sarah Hall:So, yeah, myself and an Irish girl, Tony, we went over and we shared car and we'd competed doing different events separately as drivers and then we came together and did rally.
Sarah Hall:So that was my first ever rally event and I did the navigating and she did the driving and it was a full day, no air on, full suits.
Sarah Hall:We were nearly passing out by the end of it.
Sarah Hall:But the, the rum and the beach at the end of the day made it all worth.
Speaker C:What is rally driving?
Terry Cook (Host):What's.
Speaker C:What's the, the definition if you like.
Sarah Hall:So I mean it's all, it's all about stages and times.
Sarah Hall:It depends on.
Sarah Hall:There's different valley events.
Sarah Hall:We've got not time for that today.
Sarah Hall:But there's different events.
Sarah Hall:But generally rallying is a mix of farmac and loose surface racing.
Speaker C:I mean, as well.
Speaker C:That sounds like the.
Speaker C:Almost like an opportunity of a lifetime.
Speaker C:It sounds pretty amazing if someone says, do you want to go about Bed Austin or some rally driving?
Speaker C:How, you know, how awesome was it?
Sarah Hall:I can't even describe.
Sarah Hall:I'm still on a high note.
Sarah Hall:If I look back at the pictures, I actually almost feel emotional about it because it was just such an incredible experience with some amazing people and I'm very aware how incredibly lucky I am to have that opportunity.
Sarah Hall:So I'm very, very grateful for it and it's something I wouldn't have done had I not known Greg and he invited me over.
Sarah Hall:So, yeah, incredible.
Speaker C:I just think that when you think of driving as a career, and I know that's we're not driving as a career, but it's within that, that same sort of brackets, we don't think of these opportunities, you know.
Speaker C:And then some stuff like this comes along.
Speaker C:I think it's awesome.
Speaker C:But I know you recorded a video of your time over there.
Speaker C:Where can people find that?
Sarah Hall: on YouTube, obviously it was: Sarah Hall:Let's think about that then.
Sarah Hall: Yeah,: Sarah Hall:And there'll be various videos.
Sarah Hall:There's some, yeah, behind the scenes stuff on there as well in my own page.
Sarah Hall:Sarah Vaughan Water Squad should link to it as well.
Sarah Hall:So you'll get to see all of the shenanigans.
Speaker C:I'll put link in the show notes.
Speaker C:But what's next?
Speaker C:What's next for you?
Kevin Sellwood:I don't know.
Sarah Hall:And that's scary.
Sarah Hall:But also, I like that because I don't have a set path right now.
Sarah Hall:I'm happy doing what I'm doing.
Sarah Hall:There's lots of doors that I can't even see the doors yet, never mind open them.
Sarah Hall:I don't know they're there in what I'm doing at the moment with manufacturers and stuff.
Sarah Hall:So, yeah, I don't know is the answer.
Sarah Hall:But that's a good thing, I think.
Speaker C:But this will be listened to by PDIs and by ADIs.
Speaker C:So if they want to come to you for some part two training, where's the best way to get in touch with you?
Sarah Hall:So I've got Teesside Driving Academy on the usual socials, or you can find the Sarah Hall Motorsport on the social.
Sarah Hall:All of the socials as well.
Sarah Hall:Just drop me a message on any of them.
Sarah Hall:Not a problem.
Sarah Hall:If I can help anyone out, even just with some advice, then I will.
Speaker C:Excellent.
Speaker C:Well, I'll put links in the show notes, but big thank you for joining me today.
Sarah Hall:Thanks for having me again.
Terry Cook:The instructor podcast with Terry Cook talking with leaders, innovators, experts in game changers about what drives them.
