Mini-Casts #2: Phil Cowley and Will Stewart
Today, we’re diving into the wild world of driving school marketing!
Our guests, Phil Cowley and Will Stewart, are here to shake things up and share some fresh ideas that’ll get those student inquiries rolling in like a well-oiled engine.
Phil kicks things off by reminiscing about the days of “buy one, get one free” lessons and how the game has changed post-COVID. Spoiler alert: it’s all about standing out in a crowded market now! We chat about the power of social media, the magic of community engagement, and even sprinkle in some fun tips like leveraging your students as your biggest cheerleaders. So buckle up, because we’re about to shift gears and rev up your marketing game!
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Diving into the vibrant world of driving instruction, we explore the clever marketing tactics that can help your driving school stand out in a crowded market. Phil Cowley spills the beans on what’s working post-COVID, revealing how the landscape has changed from the old buy-one-get-one-free deals to a more genuine approach to attracting students. We discuss the magic of social media and how regularly posting engaging content—like driving tips or funny anecdotes—can keep your school top of mind for potential learners. Get ready to discover how to harness the power of local partnerships and community engagement to boost your driving school’s visibility without breaking the bank. Whether it's sponsoring a local sports team or posting creative content, this episode is packed with gems to help you drive your business forward!
Takeaways:
- The podcast dives into the marketing strategies for driving schools, emphasizing the importance of social media presence to attract potential students. It's like casting a fishing net, but make sure it's the sparkliest one out there!
- Instructors are encouraged to engage with their local communities through sponsorships or partnerships, which can create brand awareness and boost credibility. Think of it as being the cool kid on the block who everyone wants to hang out with!
- A focus on the unintentional help instructors might offer students during lessons is discussed, reminding us to empower learners instead of doing the thinking for them. After all, we want them driving, not just coasting along!
- The episode highlights the idea that marketing doesn't have to be traditional; creativity can shine through unique content that showcases personality, making the driving school memorable. So, let your quirky side out and show the world what makes you, you!
- Listeners are encouraged to reflect on their teaching methods and consider how to challenge students effectively, ensuring they are developing their own driving plans rather than relying on instructors to lead the way. It's like teaching them to ride a bike without training wheels, but with a bit more horsepower!
- The conversation also touches on the overlap between sports coaching and driving instruction, suggesting that techniques from athletics can enhance driving lessons, making them more engaging and effective. Because who wouldn’t want to score a goal in both driving and sports?
Transcript
The Instructor Podcast with Terry Cook talking with leaders, innovators, experts and game changers about what drives them.
Speaker B:Welcome to the Instructor Podcast.
Speaker B:This is a show that helps you become an even more awesome driving instructor and run a better driving school.
Speaker B:As always, I am your splendid host, Terry Cook.
Speaker B:I'm delighted to be here, but even more delighted that you have chosen to listen because today we are back with some more bonus content for you.
Speaker B:That's right, I put out a call to arms for people to come and book a 15 minute recording with me to talk about a topic of their choice.
Speaker B:And folks did not let me down because today I am joined by Phil Cowley and Will Stewart who are talking about two very different things.
Speaker B:Before we get stuck into that, I want to point you in the direction of the Instructor podcast website.
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Speaker C:Now.
Speaker B:We currently have a three weeks trial for the Instructor Podcast Premium, so I highly recommend that you go and check that out.
Speaker B:There's over 250 hours worth of exclusive content from people inside and outside the industry.
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Speaker B:You can find out more@the instructorpodcast.com or go to the episode description and you'll find a direct link there.
Speaker B:But for now, let's get stuck into the show.
Speaker B:So we are now joined on this latest mini cast by Phil Cowley.
Speaker B:How are we doing, Phil?
Speaker C:I am doing really well, thank you.
Speaker B:Excellent.
Speaker B:And what have you come along to talk about today?
Speaker C:Marketing your driving school.
Speaker C:And my reasoning for this is actually on Facebook.
Speaker C:Recently it popped up on my feed a driving school offering for your first lesson like buy one, get one free, which I don't have an issue with.
Speaker C:People can do what they want with their driving schools.
Speaker C:It was just that used to be the norm.
Speaker C:That was like.
Speaker C:You'd see that all over.
Speaker C:It was almost like weird if you didn't offer two for one on your first driving lesson.
Speaker C:And actually since COVID and since business has been booming, I've not seen that.
Speaker C:And it just sort of kind of made me think, oh, that's interesting.
Speaker C:Maybe times are changing.
Speaker B:Maybe.
Speaker B:Maybe I've.
Speaker B:I've noticed a few less of the inquiries where people seem desperate.
Speaker B:In fact, a lot less of the inquiries where people seem desperate.
Speaker B:I'm getting a lot more kind of genuine queries now.
Speaker B:Whereas I think a lot of last year it felt help me, help me, help me just like message after message.
Speaker B:And were you saying that.
Speaker B:I do think it's died off a little bit.
Speaker B:I don't think I've seen any.
Speaker B:Any kind of special offers on.
Speaker B:Unlike you, I don't have a problem with them.
Speaker B:I don't think there's anything wrong there.
Speaker B:I think where I have a concern actually is if people are doing it because they're desperate, because maybe you need to.
Speaker B:But then we need to look at why you're desperate and can we move on from that?
Speaker B:And I think the other one is if you part of a franchise and that franchise is forcing that upon you, I think it should be your choice.
Speaker B:What, what marketing do you do at Cowley's?
Speaker B:Do you have any special offers or anything like that?
Speaker C:No, not at the moment.
Speaker A:Actually.
Speaker C:We don't really do any special offers.
Speaker C:And I think what we do is we make sure we put ourselves out there all the time, even when we're really busy.
Speaker C:It's quite interesting.
Speaker C:My wife does the admin, sort of taking the phone calls for pupils.
Speaker C:And I always see it as my job to make sure she's really busy taking phone calls.
Speaker C:And so regardless of how many instructors, like, whether our instructors are busy or not, and they all are full diaries, I still want to be present within the local community and making sure our name is like top of everyone's sort of thoughts when they're thinking about driving lessons.
Speaker B:I have one kind of which is it's not first lesson free, but it's.
Speaker B:If you.
Speaker B:If you have your first lesson and don't like it and you don't want anymore, I'll just give you money back.
Speaker B:I won't charge him for that first lesson.
Speaker B:I don't advertise that.
Speaker B:But that's just one of the first things I say on that first lesson.
Speaker B:If you don't like this lesson then you don't want to come back with me, then I'll happily give you your money back and no problem.
Speaker B:It's happened once which it's happened a couple of times where I've turned them down afterwards but once I think someone said no to to me afterwards but I don't know.
Speaker B:Occasionally I do them and it's not for any kind of social media reason.
Speaker B:It's not for any, it's not even for marketing reasons cause I get bored.
Speaker B:Okay, what kind of marketing thing can I do now then?
Speaker B:But one of the things that you said in the topic of choice was you wanted to come up with some ideas for people how they could market.
Speaker B:So what ideas have you got?
Speaker C:So what we do is I think probably my biggest marketing tool is just to post regularly on social media.
Speaker C:Now what regularly means to you might be different to other people but I think it's do more than everybody else is possibly the way I would say and not everybody else.
Speaker C:I know there's people that post more than I do and so I, I.
Speaker C:We post almost daily some form of tip or road safety message or like a driving test.
Speaker C:We do two types of tips so we do a driving test tip and a driving tip.
Speaker C:So like slightly different sort of kind of formats and they're all sort of kind of visuals that I've just done on, on Canva and just put them out, put them out there as a tip.
Speaker C:Videos are also something again I know that's not not the same.
Speaker C:Not everyone's comfortable with that.
Speaker C:So I do a combination of videos of me just sticking my face in a camera and maybe talking through one of those tips or videos of me teaching on lessons which I'm going to do more of now.
Speaker C:My dash cam's fixed so get definitely going to be doing more of those.
Speaker C:I recently posted a dash cam footage of a lesson from about two years ago of my pupil not stopping at a stop junction which I hadn't considered the fact that I just posted a video of my pupil breaking the law but he sort of kind of did that nearly stopped and it got 1.2 million views and like thousands of comments because people really have an opinion on stop junctions apparently.
Speaker C:So I had to do a follow up video to correct everyone.
Speaker C:So yeah, social media I think is probably my first go to.
Speaker B:You could potentially prove me wrong with this but I would imagine that that that video clip doesn't get you an awful lot of custom.
Speaker B:It just gets more eyeballs on Cowley's instructor training and sorry Cowley's Driving School.
Speaker B:And I think that the thing I would suggest here, whether it's written content, video content, whatever, you don't have to do the same thing that everyone else does, you know, I'm gonna chuck a couple of the videos that I've done over here.
Speaker B:So I did one when we came out of COVID and it was essentially me taking little pictures of my Mini at the time, and I put them up with a background theme to.
Speaker B:For the.
Speaker B:Oh, the Space Odyssey film.
Speaker B:I can't remember what it's called now, but there's like this classic music in the background that then cuts off to a picture of me, like, not car, looking all cocky with the theme tune I'm Back.
Speaker B:And, you know, that was coming out a lockdown.
Speaker B:And it wasn't there to get eyeballs, as in loads of people viewing it.
Speaker B:It was there to get people's attention and let them see that I was back on the road again.
Speaker B:And one I've done for the instructor podcast recently.
Speaker B:Well, last season, I think it was when I had the Taylor Swift getting excited at the football game.
Speaker B:Getting excited.
Speaker B:They started a podcast coming back.
Speaker B:I'm not even on there.
Speaker B:So if you don't have to put yourself on the video, but you can get that little bit creative and put other things out, it doesn't all have to be sitting in a.
Speaker B:In a car looking at the camera and talking like this and saying that you need a stop at a stop sign or whatever it was.
Speaker C:Did not sound like that.
Speaker C:The.
Speaker C:What I love about those two things is they also show off your personality.
Speaker C:And so you're selling yourself in those situations.
Speaker C:So actually, yeah, if you.
Speaker C:I was gonna say if you have a personality, then.
Speaker C:But what I mean is when.
Speaker C:If you have some interests or you have something you feel is unique, then.
Speaker C:And actually, even if you don't think it's unique, you are unique.
Speaker C:So go sell yourself.
Speaker C:Just put yourself.
Speaker C:Putting yourself out there is your personality.
Speaker C:And people buy into that way more than is a lot of what I put out, which is just.
Speaker C:Just the.
Speaker C:That's kind of like the filler stuff, I think.
Speaker C:Whereas the other stuff is.
Speaker C:And I suppose I'm putting out road safety messages because I want people to see that and see that's the sort of school we are.
Speaker C:And it's not just our past photos.
Speaker C:On the note of past photos.
Speaker C:I've heard you talk about these, like, loads and loads.
Speaker C:And absolutely, they're great.
Speaker C:I agree with you.
Speaker C:They're great.
Speaker C:But they shouldn't be the only thing you're putting out there.
Speaker C:But also I actually would say, like, spice them up a little bit.
Speaker C:Because when you are looking through and it is just a picture of you with someone next to your car looking like, trying to force a smile most of the time because they don't actually want the photo.
Speaker C:It's not, it's not like engaging and exciting.
Speaker C:So do something to like.
Speaker C:And again, just have a, like, something different to what everyone else is doing.
Speaker C:Something that just stops people scrolling for a second and then takes note of actually, oh, that person's passed with that.
Speaker C:And again, they're not going to necessarily instantly contact you.
Speaker C:For me, social media is about brand awareness.
Speaker C:It's about bring like being in people's minds when they come to learn to drive or when they have a friend learning to drive.
Speaker C:Like, oh, have you seen Cowley's?
Speaker C:And because that you've been in that sort of kind of process.
Speaker C:The, the other thing I do with social media is I have a partnership with my local spotted page.
Speaker C:Do you guys have a spotted page?
Speaker C:Is that a thing nationally?
Speaker B:If we do, I'm not aware of it.
Speaker C:So it's kind of like local people.
Speaker C:It starts off, it started off, I assume it's like, have you seen this guy's parking?
Speaker C:Or have you seen something going on in town?
Speaker C:That sort of kind of thing.
Speaker C:But realistically, like, people just post all about like the local stuff and they've actually, they don't let you post about your business in there, but they have a partnership.
Speaker C:So I pay them monthly to share my posts basically.
Speaker C: ,: Speaker C:So it's hugely beneficial.
Speaker C:Like I couldn't get that for the same amount of money if I advertised on Facebook and used the like, booster posts, all kind of things.
Speaker C:And it's all local.
Speaker C:So yeah, something like that.
Speaker C:But again, it doesn't have to be paid.
Speaker C:I'm sure there are places where you could offer your services in.
Speaker C:In one of those groups going, actually, these guys have, maybe there's been a collision, a particular roundabout or something like that.
Speaker C:Go and say, actually, do you want me to do a video?
Speaker C:And I'll post it up.
Speaker C:I think that might be helpful, something like that.
Speaker C:Or write a post.
Speaker B:Community groups are great for that.
Speaker B:Get in your local community group on Facebook and say, can I do a monthly video or, you know, written thing or Q and A or, you know, anything around that.
Speaker B:And every month you're just in that group.
Speaker B:And what you'll find is that they'll have like specific days where you can post you and advertise stuff like that.
Speaker B:But you're in their monthly weekly whatever is you do and people start asking you questions now again, whether you do it as a video, text format, whatever works for you.
Speaker B:But that could be great.
Speaker B:And if, what if, if your local community group will let you do that.
Speaker B:Start your own community group.
Speaker B:You'll soon get 4,000 members in there and you're in charge of it.
Speaker B:So you can make it your thing.
Speaker B:But one of the things that worked for me and this was free, but it, but it fell on it, if you like.
Speaker B:I didn't choose.
Speaker B:It was my local catchment area, Old town called Geisley and I get about 60% of my customer from there, but I live next to it, not in it.
Speaker B:And they banned me from doing any kind of advertising in there.
Speaker B:They let me stay in the community group but wouldn't let me advertise because I didn't live in the area.
Speaker B:And one of my students got annoyed and she started advertising on my behalf and just sharing all my stuff in there, which annoyed him.
Speaker B:And I think they kicked her out at the end.
Speaker B:But it worked very well.
Speaker B:I think that's why I've got so much customing guys, if I'm being honest with you, because she did all that.
Speaker B:But do you know what the other thing I'll just say, and I think this ties in what you were saying about the pass picture and stuff is make it like you said, make it your own.
Speaker B:So when you put that past picture up, do a write up and make it personable and you might not get as many inquiries or as just going, look, this person passed with three minors and all, whatever, but you're going to get people that are more relatable to you which then makes you enjoy your lessons.
Speaker B:So you might find that by getting a bit more specific and a bit more niche, you don't quite get the same volume of inquiries, but you'll enjoy your lessons a hell of a lot more.
Speaker C:Yep, definitely.
Speaker C:Other ideas coming away from social media, you could sponsor like a local sports team potentially particularly if they're around that age.
Speaker C:So if you can get the local under 18s football team, like that's like pretty much your target audience.
Speaker C:So something like that might be again financially viable option, putting your name out there.
Speaker C:It's also networking to a certain because those sort of kind of things, they'll probably invite you along to the events and so you're starting to kind of build this image within the community.
Speaker C:So absolutely, I think that's quite, quite a good option.
Speaker C:And then I think the other one I would suggest is utilize your biggest cheerleaders, which, like you just said, your, your pupil got annoyed because you got banned and suddenly started posting for you.
Speaker C:A little bit of encouragement and your pupils will shout about you.
Speaker C:And it quite often is better when they're shouting about you than you're shouting about you.
Speaker C:So I think it's finding a way, whether it's a little competition or maybe even like a, like a Starbucks reward system, like every recommendation you get, you get a stamp or something and then you get something at the end of that.
Speaker C:I don't know, something like that that works.
Speaker B:It's, it's, it's asking forgiveness rather than permission sometimes I would say as well, you know, I'm, I'm a big one for that.
Speaker B:Within reason.
Speaker B:Don't do anything illegal.
Speaker B:But you know, if you were to give somebody, students some flyers or business cards and say, can you pin these up around your school?
Speaker B:Not around the school.
Speaker B:You know where they go at school, you know, the students will do it for you.
Speaker B:And then three weeks later, if a teacher will notice and go, they shouldn't be up here and take it down.
Speaker B:If they've mourned, they say, I'll just give it to my student.
Speaker B:They know they'll put it up or whatever.
Speaker B:So you can pass this stuff on.
Speaker B:And even with stuff like that, if you want to go a bit more extreme, you could offer students, every student, you get me, once I've done 10 hours, I will give you a, an hour free or something like that.
Speaker B:And that gets the ball rolling.
Speaker B:You don't have to keep that forever.
Speaker B:But if you're short of students now that might get the ball rolling so that you're not short of students in six months time.
Speaker B: And: Speaker B:So I think there's some tips there to get people started.
Speaker B:You've got one last tip there, Phil.
Speaker C:I just wanted to jump in because you said about giving a free hour for the person, which people might be thinking it's the same as that, buy one, get one free hour that we started the conversation with.
Speaker C:But actually it's really different because it's a recommendation.
Speaker C:And if you get a recommendation and that person gets a recommendation, you start to create this group of friends that you teach and that's far more powerful than these random people coming in for your offer.
Speaker C:I measured out because the time is ticking down.
Speaker B:Well, look, just on that, if you get someone in and that person comes you for 50 hours and you give someone one hour, because of that, you've got 49 hours paid.
Speaker B:So that's not bad.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Do you want to take a moment, Phil, just to remind everyone where they can find you and very, very briefly what you have to offer?
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:So inspire instructure training.com and you can find everything we do on there.
Speaker C:So we have our mentorship and our online courses and we are, we are going to be doing our we're only human workshop and our nine and a half simple steps to passing your standards checker part three workshop.
Speaker C:We're going to be doing them regularly online and also we have just decided today that we're also going to go on tour again.
Speaker B:Excellent.
Speaker B:Well, links will be in the show Notes and Bink, thank you for joining us today.
Speaker C:Thank you.
Speaker B:But we're just taking a brief pause and we're back with another 15 minute episode in just a moment.
Speaker B:But I want to tell you about a series I'm currently running over on the Instructor Premium, which is something I call Honestly, and it's based in conjunction with the Honest Truth.
Speaker B:So what we're doing is we're taking a deep dive into the Honest Truth and we've been looking at how to introduce it into lessons and how to manage some of those obstructions you might get from your students.
Speaker B:But the recent thing we've started doing is recording episodes, doing a deep dive into each of the ten truths.
Speaker B:So we're giving you some background on those truths and we're looking at how you can bring them into the conversation and how you can shoehorn them in or how they might fit nicely into that lesson.
Speaker B:We're also looking at some of the objections potentially that a student may have and how we can deal with those.
Speaker B:And this is an ongoing series within the Instructor Podcast Premium.
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Speaker B:So head to the episode description or Visit the website www.the instructorpodcast.com.
Speaker B:but for now, let's see what Will's got to say.
Speaker B:So I'm now delighted to be joined by Will Stewart.
Speaker B:How are we doing, Will?
Speaker A:Terry, it's a joy to be here.
Speaker A:Thanks very much.
Speaker B:Excellent.
Speaker B:Good to have you on.
Speaker B:What are we talking about today, Terry?
Speaker A:I thought when you asked the topic of what we're going to talk about, I thought it'd be interesting to say something.
Speaker A:I just mentioned a previous blog post I'd written about unintentional help that instructors maybe don't realize they're giving to students and maybe being a bit too helpful.
Speaker B:Give me an example.
Speaker B:What do you mean by unintentional help?
Speaker A:Well, how did I break it down before?
Speaker A:I guess what I was saying, if we think about the driving task as it what someone needs to do to perform like a task while we're driving, I broke it down into three parts.
Speaker A:You know, for students driving along, they have to be able to identify risk.
Speaker A:They need to be able to form a solution of how they deal with that risk and then they need to execute that solution in a safe way, if that makes sense.
Speaker A:So what I a big thing on part three and standards check is this idea of empowering your student to form a driving plan.
Speaker A:And I think sometimes instructors, one of the joys of be able to watch lessons from the back as you see all sorts of style, all sorts of lessons going on.
Speaker A:And sometimes you have lessons where there's too little help going on and you're in the back and you've got a student in the front and we're heading towards a roundabout and there's, you know, it's not a lot's happening from the student.
Speaker A:So you look over to the instructor and not a lot's happening there either.
Speaker A:And you're kind of like, guys, any chance, any danger that someone's going to step in here and that sometimes happens.
Speaker A:But what often there's a phase I've seen recently of what has been happening is people would say things like, okay, there's a roundabout coming up, it looks very busy, so what do you need to do about the speed?
Speaker A:And if we break down how that person has a.
Speaker A:There's a round mic coming up.
Speaker A:If we think about those three sections we just mentioned, identify risk, solution, execution.
Speaker A:The instructor, by saying that has identified to the student there's a problem ahead, it's quite busy, has also sort of affirmed that risk.
Speaker A:And so, and the instructor has said, so what are we going to do about our Speed as an example and I heard the other day.
Speaker A:And so in terms of solution and the work the student has to do, actually the student has got very little thought process left to do.
Speaker A:So I think sometimes we as instructors are quite, are very good at coaching students really well through driving plans we formed.
Speaker B:Does that make sense, do you think?
Speaker B:The key there is that word unintentional because if you're intentionally helping a student then that's very likely a good thing.
Speaker B:But if you're doing it without realizing.
Speaker A:I totally agree.
Speaker A:I totally agree.
Speaker A:What I'm not saying there is point out problems to a student is wrong because helping them form a plan is a large part of the training we want to do.
Speaker A:How they form that plan and how their thoughts and opinions shape it.
Speaker A:But the, what I sometimes think can occur is that we never step off that.
Speaker A:It's, we're, we, we're forever giving those little directions or oh, just watch out here, it's a bit tight or just, you know, be careful as you come around this.
Speaker A:Sometimes we want to be seen to be helpful and helping the student along.
Speaker A:And it's just that those little unintentional problems as we get close to the say to the test or to that next level that sometimes we don't come off as much as maybe we could.
Speaker B:I would suggest that the most important thing here is to notice when you've done that because, well, I'm an instructor, I'm human, I make mistakes.
Speaker B:And one springs to mind for me recently we're coming towards the roundabout and I've told the students of we're going towards Bradford.
Speaker B:Wherever the sign was pointing, we're going towards Bradford.
Speaker B:And they added onto the end, that's the third exit.
Speaker B:And I'm immediately kicking myself.
Speaker B:I'm like, why have I given an extra clue?
Speaker B:They should be working.
Speaker B:Ice was working out what exit is.
Speaker B:But I've noticed I've done that.
Speaker B:I beat myself up for about five seconds and then I'm on to the next thing.
Speaker B:It's like right now I need to make sure I don't do that again.
Speaker B:You think maybe that's the most important thing, that when we make that mistake we notice it and then try and remedy it going forward.
Speaker A:I totally agree.
Speaker A:I think everyone, as you said, can think of examples where they've, they've said something.
Speaker B:Why?
Speaker A:Why have I said that?
Speaker A:You know, I didn't, I didn't.
Speaker A:And it is really easily done and I think that it's a really helpful reflection to think about.
Speaker A:If a student has to identify risk, form a solution and then execute.
Speaker A:Especially when it thinks about you.
Speaker A:Questions that we ask on the move.
Speaker A:How many questions have I said to that student that is focused purely on say the execution, you know, what position, what speed, how you doing the gear.
Speaker A:Often we're quite good at the solution things.
Speaker A:Okay, so you see the head looks quite traffic.
Speaker A:How do you think you're going to resolve this?
Speaker A:But the get the box often is probably needs most reflection maybe would be the identify risk.
Speaker A:How good are we at being quiet in some areas or just letting them read the road, letting them do the talking, you know, can they talk us through with a talk through, a commentary wherever we want to say to describe what they're seeing and how they're perceiving the risk for themselves.
Speaker B:So what advice would you give to an instructor in this situation?
Speaker B:Someone that finds themselves, as you describe it unintentionally helping a student.
Speaker B:I gave my example before of you know, towards Bradford, third exit, you know, and giving too much information.
Speaker B:What advice would you give to someone that finds themselves in this, in this quandary?
Speaker A:I think examples I would think of just the top of my head is how can we pose a question that challenges a student's what they're picking up risk wise without accidentally picking up the risk for them.
Speaker A:And so questions personally I've used and I'm sure other people have lots of great examples of this and I'd be really interested to hear them as well.
Speaker A:Might be things like if you're driving down the road, just asking things like what hazards are you prioritizing down this road?
Speaker A:Because then you're getting a sense maybe of what they're saying but also what they're counting as danger.
Speaker A:I think sometimes I like a bit of a clue in the question.
Speaker A:I think sometimes we can say things, oh, what do you see down here?
Speaker A:And it's kind of a bit open.
Speaker A:I can see someone, you know, walking.
Speaker A:It's a bit more vague.
Speaker A:So if we can ask things like what you're prioritizing or I think that idea of encouraging the sort of the talk through the students.
Speaker A:You can you really enter into the mindset and their thought process of how they're seeing the road and the, and their risks develop as they drive along.
Speaker B:I like it.
Speaker B:I think the thing I want to mention because I'm always concerned about people listening and taking things literally.
Speaker B:I assume what you're not saying if there's a problem arising to not identify that problem, you know, if the problem's there, we May need to identify it.
Speaker B:We can't just go, what are you going to do about this?
Speaker B:Oh, crash.
Speaker A:But what I would add to that is, hasn't that helped you recognize a gap in the student's planning?
Speaker A:I'm not saying you wouldn't step in and I'm not saying you wouldn't help keep it safe and avoid safety, potential safety critical incidents.
Speaker A:But what that has helped do is realize, oh hang on, there's been a barrier there for forever reason the student hasn't seen something.
Speaker A:So actually it's enhanced what the feedback or the reflection you can have with that student about that situation.
Speaker B:Yeah, I also think it shows us where we're lacking as instructors in that scenario.
Speaker B:You know, I always think of it that if, if something surprises me on a lesson or if I have to step in and take action, a lot of the time that means I've missed something.
Speaker B:I can relate to them now that might not be what I'll say to the student because obviously we're looking at their driving, but it's an opportunity to reflect on what I've done and gone.
Speaker B:I maybe should have stepped in earlier there, you know, would you concur with that?
Speaker A:I would concur with that.
Speaker A:And I, I have been in the back of some very brutal lessons where it that has happened.
Speaker A:You know, they've headed to something, it's gone safety critical and the instructors like dual controlled them because they haven't maybe stepped in or they've been caught out, but pulled the student over and gone.
Speaker A:I had to dual control you there any, any reasons why I had to do that?
Speaker A:And the student probably would rightly say I think we both missed what, just what just happened.
Speaker A:But they never do, they never say that.
Speaker A:They always say, oh, I could have done this and I could have done that.
Speaker A:And the instructor gets off scot free a little bit from that.
Speaker A:But I totally agree that one of the hardest things is just that is the mental challenge of being an instructor.
Speaker A:You know, being you're planning yourself is that step ahead.
Speaker A:Not just thinking about high traffic will interact with us, but how the person beside us will interact with them.
Speaker A:And just thinking about that intervention early and so you've got that preemptive help ready nice and early and little like question templates like when what questions we quite, you know, quite nice.
Speaker A:Just, you know, when we get to such and such, what are we going to do?
Speaker A:And they give you a little bit of a what their plan is going to be.
Speaker A:Excellent, let's see you, let's See, you execute that, can't wait to see it.
Speaker A:And then things adapt that and they're able to change and how they react to any dynamic hazards that do change.
Speaker B:Yeah, And I think that's the difference like you were speaking about there, there'll be times you'll just ask them a question to kind of know what they're thinking and to see where they're looking and what they're planning.
Speaker B:And there'll be times, as you mentioned, where you're asking a question because you're giving them a little clue or you want to know if they've seen something.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:Because I think sometimes it can feel like in lessons it's almost like the students like leaning on you for help and you can feel yourself just like, just not almost like you're not doing them off your shoulder, you know, like stand on your own two feet and let's see, let's see what you can do.
Speaker A:Test yourself and see if you can push yourself and get to that next level.
Speaker B:At the start of this one, when you first mentioned it, you mentioned about it being in a blog post you'd written.
Speaker B:So it's a two part question.
Speaker B:If I wanted to find this blog post, why would I go to find it?
Speaker B:And secondly, what was the idea behind this?
Speaker B:What was the goal behind it?
Speaker A:Okay, good questions.
Speaker A:The blog post mimes are Will Stewart.
Speaker A:It's just on my personal Facebook page.
Speaker A:It's a link to a substack that I've started on instructor training.
Speaker A:And you'll find if you go on the substack and just look up driver instructor training, you'll, you'll find it on there.
Speaker A:I run sort of CPD courses in the southwest and so feel free to look those up.
Speaker A:When I started with this, do you know what the blog post was just free anyone to read the.
Speaker A:The idea really was sort of like, like what you do yourself.
Speaker A:It's a great collection of ideas and just, you know, very welcome for people to, to comment and share their thoughts as well.
Speaker A:And it was kind of just putting like coaching thoughts out there just for the benefit of anyone who wanted to sort of read and follow and go from there really.
Speaker B:So I, I was thinking about like substack the other day and thing and read it as well and thinking, I don't think there's an awful lot on here.
Speaker B:So I'm glad that somewhat's popped up.
Speaker B:But you know, I think it's worth mentioning at this point there'll be a lot of people that have no idea what substack is.
Speaker B:Do you want to take a minute to explain that, what you mean by that?
Speaker A:I mean until fairly recently I probably would have said this in.
Speaker A:It was just a very simple platform, mainly for writers.
Speaker A:And actually it's a really nice shared space of ideas.
Speaker A:And you're absolutely right because I was inspired to join by someone else who was really, who's into coaching.
Speaker A:So actually there's a really nice sports coaching which I have a good passion for content on there.
Speaker A:And actually I thought, you know what, it's a really nice idea where people are just sharing thoughts on that coaching content.
Speaker A:So I've added the instructor side and again, just that idea of just sharing thoughts.
Speaker A:So it's very simple to find.
Speaker A:There's an app or you can just go on to desktop and search it there.
Speaker B:I'll include links to that in the show notes so people can, you know, find it quite easily.
Speaker B:But you mentioned sports coaching there.
Speaker B:I think there's a big overlap in sports coached on what we do.
Speaker B:I'm on my proper sports coach.
Speaker B:I don't mean like the, you know, Sunday football league or that way or someone's shouting at your kids on a school playground or whatever.
Speaker B:I, I do feel like there's a big overlap there in, in the way that proper sports coaches coach their athletes and the way proper instructor coaches coach their students.
Speaker B:What are your thoughts on that?
Speaker A:Yeah, no, absolutely.
Speaker A:And in fact I took a lot of inspiration from that as well.
Speaker A:How do people perform under pressure?
Speaker A:That's a thing you often hear in elite level sport is just performance under pressure.
Speaker A:And I think just little thing, I was talking about this the other day with someone, what types of skills?
Speaker A:And imagine, you know, someone practicing a tennis serve or a basketball shot.
Speaker A:You know, you do your practice and there's an outcome and you would stop and reflect.
Speaker A:And that's sort of similar to sort of things we do when we're driving, where we would do an activity that there's an outcome and we can stop and reflect or there's skills like imagine you were practicing your jogging stride or running strider swim technique.
Speaker A:You would actually coach in motion.
Speaker A:You actually put your arms in or, and actually that's similar to like as we drive and positioning.
Speaker A:What does this position feel like?
Speaker A:Now there's a bend coming up to the right.
Speaker A:How does it feel if we position over to the left?
Speaker A:What advantages does that have?
Speaker A:And actually, and the idea of, well, what do we coach that has an outcome?
Speaker A:What do we coach that we can coach in motion?
Speaker A:Lots of ideas from sport that we can apply to lessons and how we coach because a lot of the themes are very similar.
Speaker B:Just as a quick plug, I don't know if you've heard it, but I think it was season two or three of the podcast back in the end of 21 or start 22 when I had a chatbot it's called Simon Hartley who's like genuinely level coach psychology kind of coach work with likes to Bayern Munich and rugby union football.
Speaker B:And rugby football England.
Speaker B:I'm getting my words mixed up there but you know that kind of stuff.
Speaker B:So for anyone that's interested in that, go back and check out his episode from that.
Speaker B:But.
Speaker A:But yeah.
Speaker B:Now I just wanted to say a big thank you for coming on Will today.
Speaker B:It's the first time we've spoke.
Speaker B:I've enjoyed chatting to you.
Speaker B:Do you want to take a moment to tell people where they can find you?
Speaker A:For sure.
Speaker A:I'm in based in the southwest of England, based in Exeter and always happy for people to come and have a chat or cup of tea or.
Speaker A:I said I run my classroom CPD there.
Speaker A:I enjoy the classroom experience, classroom feel, be able to interact in small groups and so you can find me there or just find me online.
Speaker B:Where's the best place online?
Speaker A:At the moment it's just sort of Facebook and the blog.
Speaker A:But we'll hopefully we'll build from there.
Speaker B:Cool.
Speaker B:Excellent.
Speaker B:I can link that in the show notes.
Speaker B:But big thank you for joining me today, Terry.
Speaker A:Thank you very much.
Speaker A:The instructor podcast with Terry Cook, talking with leaders, innovators, experts and game changers about what drives them.
