The Instructor Boardroom
The very first Instructor Boardroom brings together a panel of familiar voices from across the industry to tackle the big questions facing driving instructors today. Terry Cook is joined by Tom Stenson, Andy MacFarlane, Laura Joyce, Ray Seagrave, Emma Cottington, Chris Bensted and Dan Hill for a wide-ranging discussion shaped by real questions from instructors.
From the changing demand for manual and automatic lessons, to the challenges of pricing, test availability and supporting PDIs, the group share their honest experiences from different parts of the country. They also explore how instructors can stand out in a crowded market, the importance of ongoing CPD, and why investing in yourself is the key to long-term success.
Packed with practical insights and frank opinions, this opening Boardroom session offers plenty of food for thought for anyone working in driver training.
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Transcript
The Instructor Podcast with Terry Cook talking with leaders, innovators, experts and game changers
Speaker B:about what drives them.
Speaker B:Welcome to the Instructor Podcast.
Speaker B:This is a show that helps you become an even more awesome driving instructor and run a better driving school.
Speaker B:As always, I am your splendid host, Terry Cook, and I'm delighted to be here.
Speaker B:I'm even more delighted that you have chosen to listen because we've got a cracking episode for you today as I am joined by seven very extraordinary people from within our industry.
Speaker B:Tom Stenson, Andy McFarlane, Laura Joyce, Ray Seagrave, Emma Cottington, Chris Benstead and Dan Hill.
Speaker B:Now this was a two hour live Q and A originally released in the instructor performance and psychology membership.
Speaker B:But every now and again I like to take something from that membership and release it here in the podcast feed so you guys can get an idea of what's going on over there.
Speaker B:Now, this is the audio version, but there is a video version available in IPP membership.
Speaker B:And if you enjoy this episode or simply want to go and check out more, there is a free one week trial that you can go and get access to.
Speaker B:Right now, just head to www.patreon.com the instructor, or head to the show notes where you will find a link to.
Speaker B:But for now, enjoy the show.
Speaker B:So welcome to this first ever instructor boardroom.
Speaker B:I am joined by a bunch of the regular contributors to the instructor premium, covering a wide variety of genres, let's say.
Speaker B:So I'm gonna go on and introduce these guys.
Speaker B:And the way I start my zooms nowadays is I always ask people to give me somewhere between a word and three words as to where their head is at right now.
Speaker B:So first of all, we are joined by Mr. Tom Stenson.
Speaker B:Tom, one to three words.
Speaker B:How are you doing?
Speaker C:I have a cold.
Speaker C:The last four words.
Speaker B:Sorry, and more after.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Just go with cold.
Speaker B:It's fine.
Speaker A:I have cold.
Speaker B:I have cold.
Speaker D:Yes.
Speaker B:There we go.
Speaker B:Andy McFarlane.
Speaker B:How are we doing?
Speaker E:Relaxed, Relaxed, excited and motivated.
Speaker E:They're my feelings.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:If you're taking the hands out, why is this so hard for you guys?
Speaker B:Great, Laura.
Speaker B:No pressure.
Speaker B:No more than three words, please.
Speaker B:How you doing, Laura?
Speaker B:Joyce.
Speaker F:Chaos.
Speaker B:I. I always call you Laura.
Speaker B:Joyce.
Speaker B:You've signed in as Laura Johnson.
Speaker F:That's my other name.
Speaker B:Which do you prefer?
Speaker F:Joyce, please.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker B:You're making it easy for me.
Speaker B:All right.
Speaker B:Ray Seagrave.
Speaker B:How are we doing?
Speaker G:I'm all right.
Speaker G:Focused on change.
Speaker B:Focused on change.
Speaker B:We'll go with that.
Speaker B:I'll take that.
Speaker B:Emma Cottington.
Speaker H:Serendipitous
Speaker B:if the last two of you could use words I understand, please.
Speaker D:Chris Benstead, focused and Dan Hill, busy and optimistic.
Speaker B:Dan, that was my favorite answer.
Speaker B:I like optimistic.
Speaker B:I like optimistic.
Speaker B:So we are kicking this off with a question that has been sent in by A one that's Sally Featherstone.
Speaker B:Now, first of all, if you don't know Sally, she is awesome and she's from Yorkshire, so she gets bonus points for that.
Speaker B:But I really, really like this question because it's something I've been punching a lot recently.
Speaker B:And just as a heads up, I'm going to start with you with this one, Emma, so I'll read it out and then I'll.
Speaker B:And I'll bring you in.
Speaker B:But I'm going to cut out the context you started, which she gave a bit of context.
Speaker B:But I'm going to go straight to the question because do we think the COVID backlog is now getting caught up?
Speaker B:Do we think there's simply more instructors out there now?
Speaker B:I'm still getting inquiries, but they have decreased a little.
Speaker B:It just seems like people are not having to wait to get on with an instructor these days and I'm curious to know why and if the guys on the Q and A have similar issues and their thoughts around this.
Speaker B:Have the tables turned already?
Speaker B:We knew the COVID backheart log and being able to pick and choose who we wish to teach wouldn't last forever.
Speaker B:Kind of a few questions wrapped into one there.
Speaker B:But I wanted to come to you first and because I know you've got a local driving school so this is something you'll be dealing with.
Speaker B:So, yeah, what are your thoughts on the COVID back backlog?
Speaker H:I quite like that you've come to me first on this because I literally had a discussion on this two days ago with someone and yes, we've noticed a change, but the change that I've noticed is that because we've got multicast school, so we have manual, we have auto sort of covering a couple of different areas and couple of things.
Speaker H: d is the inquiries now to pre: Speaker H:And I did a little bit of sort of like research recently because we was looking at changing our pricing.
Speaker H:So I had a little look at this as to, you know, where the trend is.
Speaker H:And I kind of jumped into some inboxes of people who've been inquiring and so I've started to ask, you know, what is the, the, what's the reason why you're coming for auto rather than manual, like just to kind of do a little bit of market research.
Speaker H:A lot of people was quite like, you know, wanting to, to sort of give some answers.
Speaker H:And a lot of people were coming at us with the auto rather than the manual because they think it's going to be quicker because of the whole backlog thing, knowing it's going to take longer to get to a test perspective because of the dvsa, thinking that there's, there's going to be a quickness to doing the auto rather than the manual.
Speaker H:And I was quite surprised that that was why people were coming at us for auto.
Speaker H:As for the inquiries, as in the, the, the volume of them.
Speaker H:I personally locally here haven't noticed a difference yet, although I have not.
Speaker H:Or the conversation I had was the, the guy who actually was talking to me in the test center about this was asking whether he.
Speaker H:We had noticed a difference because he had.
Speaker H:And the only through talking to him and asking him sort of like what trend he'd seen.
Speaker H:The only sort of conclusion I drawn, and it was only a very brief conversation, it was literally 10 minutes in the test center was that locally, if I look at like our social media and things like that, we've typically got maybe a thousand to fifteen hundred followers more than the next driving school.
Speaker H:So I think when people are looking for schools, we're typically at the top.
Speaker H:And then it's not necessarily filtering further because we are filling gaps better now because locally test tests, I don't want to say this to everybody because I know there's a lot of the country that's still in a mess, but locally we can probably get a test within about eight weeks, which I know is really, really good.
Speaker H:So there has been a shift in trend here because we are turning people over a little bit quicker than we were maybe 18 months ago.
Speaker H:So I don't know.
Speaker H:I think there's a few, few combinations.
Speaker H:And I think the other factor is, and I, and I sort of foreseen this coming a while ago is that with pricing, a lot of us, because of demand, started to put our prices up.
Speaker H:And I think we're now at that borderline where people are now having more options because people are having gaps.
Speaker H:That's what we're seeing here now.
Speaker H:Pricing is becoming an important factor.
Speaker H:And the ones who jumped their prices really, really high are now suffering a little bit because where we did put our prices up, we didn't go really, really high.
Speaker H:We went up a bit, but not hugely.
Speaker H:So we're still sort of sat in
Speaker B:the middle it's interesting.
Speaker B:I think the difference or one of the differences I've noticed is I've always spoke a lot about people would choose me as an instructor rather than because of the type of stuff I put out on social media.
Speaker B:They'll go, I want to learn.
Speaker B:With Terry, the last couple of years it's been more just, you know, have you got any space available?
Speaker B:Because it's firing off to anyone, but it seems to.
Speaker B:Going back to.
Speaker B:Yeah, I've been recommended to.
Speaker B:And I've seen you talk about this and I.
Speaker B:So I think there's.
Speaker B:There's definitely a shift there and for me personally, I've noticed more.
Speaker B:Sorry, less inquiries.
Speaker B:But just for those that don't know.
Speaker B:Where are you based, Emma?
Speaker H:I'm in St Helens, so northwest.
Speaker E:Yeah.
Speaker B:So I'm in Leeds or Leeds, Bradford and my local testing at Horseford.
Speaker B:You still struggling to get anything, you know, at all.
Speaker B:But then there's a couple of ones a bit further out that we can use it eight to 10 weeks.
Speaker B:We can sneak it in sometimes.
Speaker B:But I want to go up north.
Speaker B:I think I want to go north and south.
Speaker B:So we're going to go to Andy and then Chris to get.
Speaker B:To get their takes on this.
Speaker B:We're going up and down the country.
Speaker B:Andy, what.
Speaker B:What have you noticed around this?
Speaker E:I think there's definitely been a lot of.
Speaker E:Of a big increase in people planning early so that the younger ones are planning before they're even 17th birthday or they're kind of six months in advance.
Speaker E:There's people saying, look, can I book a lesson?
Speaker E:Which I think is really good because it just helps future planning and it guarantees spaces and diaries rather than people turning around and saying, can I get a lesson next week?
Speaker E:But I still think we're not as lucky.
Speaker E:We're kind of December, January for tests.
Speaker E:So we're still getting a lot of, you know, people who book tests, try and get by an instructor afterwards and then leave it too long and then they're scrambling towards the end and then nobody wants to take them.
Speaker E:So it's kind of.
Speaker E:I wouldn't, I wouldn't say it's improved enough here yet.
Speaker E:It still seems pretty bad.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker B:Should we be encouraging learners and we can do this obviously by social media or whatever we want, but should we be encouraging learners and parents to plan for that rather than turn up?
Speaker B:Is that something we should proactively be doing?
Speaker B:Yeah, definitely, I think.
Speaker E:And obviously we're trying to do different things.
Speaker E:We're kind of looking into the young driver stuff.
Speaker E:I Think that's, you know, getting people started really early, getting them thinking about future planning.
Speaker E:And it helps because you're getting them doing the basics before they're on the road, which is going to help when it comes to getting out there.
Speaker B:And Chris, I want to come down to you because we've just heard the Voice from the north, as his show is called, on the Premium Membership.
Speaker B:So, Chris, we get the Voice from the South, I suppose, but maybe, obviously as part of the ditc, you hear a lot from instructors as well.
Speaker B:So I'm wondering what's it like down south and also what's the feedback you're getting from instructors.
Speaker A:So I think that, you know, things are changing a bit kind of consistency rather than necessarily the flow, but it's.
Speaker A:We need to remember we've just had August and everything has been, you know, changed in the way that people do things.
Speaker A:People are still settling down from all that Covid stuff in whether they were going for holidays.
Speaker A:I think more people seem to be going away this year than did last year.
Speaker A:There's been more of a move to going, yeah, we're in a more comfortable space, we're doing that, or we've got no money so that we'll do it anyway or whatever those decisions were that, you know, we've always looked at things as a.
Speaker A:You tend to have to go through a four year cycle before you've really seen the big picture and even then you still haven't got a clue.
Speaker A:And the, the year where you think, I'll make myself available during Easter, everyone will go skiing.
Speaker A:And the year where you think, well, you know, it's not worth me being available, everybody will want you and it's the way it goes.
Speaker A:So the fact that we've just had the holidays, I think is actually making people slightly, you know, we're all a little bit twitchy about these things.
Speaker A:It seemed to go quiet, but then all of a sudden there was a bit of a pickup in a particular week and you know, those things are going on.
Speaker A:There's definitely the regional aspect to it and test availability makes a big difference because if people are panicking about not getting their.
Speaker A:Being able to get a test and you know, to be honest with you, I'll take Andy's, you know, December, because we're looking at January, February, there's just nothing in the, in the southeast at all until this week.
Speaker A:This week, suddenly there were a load that really were released.
Speaker A:Maybe we've got a new examiner coming on board and that kind of thing.
Speaker A:I don't know, but that is.
Speaker A:We're so isolated from the actual big picture and we only see what we see.
Speaker A:I'm not convinced.
Speaker A:What we have noticed is if someone phones you up, if you don't phone them back, you know, within 48 hours, they've probably found someone else.
Speaker A:Now who that is, what they're doing, et cetera.
Speaker A:That, you know, that, that's, that's a really big question.
Speaker A:And then just to answer your question about the ditc, that's the kind of situation everywhere people are saying different things.
Speaker A:People are saying, I'm struggling to find work at particular times of day.
Speaker A:And I think that's the first symptom because there's, you know, there's not that I'll take anything approach.
Speaker A:So I would say it's changing.
Speaker A:I don't think there's a big bubble bursting.
Speaker A:It would be interesting to compare it to the instructor figures as to who's on the road and who's doing what and how that dynamic works as well, because we see the big figure, but we don't know where they are.
Speaker A:They could all be, you know, where I live and not anywhere else.
Speaker A:And you don't know.
Speaker A:But let me chuck it across to Laura because she's waving at the screen.
Speaker F: e any kind of context, but in: Speaker F:So if you look long term, the numbers are pretty much exactly the same.
Speaker F:Even the split of male to female are the same.
Speaker F: here's definitely been, since: Speaker F:So I would be surprised if the ratio of increase of instructors versus the ratio of increase of people looking for tests and lessons has kind of increased along the same lines.
Speaker F:So I do think there is an element of that in very recent years where it plummeted.
Speaker F:And now we've kind of gotten used to a new normal of having learners at our fingertips.
Speaker F:And now it's, it's changing back.
Speaker F:But I, I can't imagine it was always like this.
Speaker F: I can't imagine that in: Speaker F:Maybe we've just gotten used to a certain level of demand.
Speaker F:And that's changing because Covid is slowly, very slowly, having less of an Effect
Speaker A:and the huge influx of.
Speaker A:Of PDIs is being held back by the lack of part two and part three tests.
Speaker A:So potentially there's, you know, there's that, that extra number of people on the road.
Speaker A:It, you know it's coming.
Speaker F:Yeah, I mean I did, yeah, I did see again, it's, it's very, very top line stats.
Speaker F:But I did see there are a huge number of trainees now.
Speaker F:And anecdotally, because I work a lot with PDIs of what I do, I, I've seen a huge influx of people wanting to train or going about that process, but it's incredibly frustrating and I'd be interested to see how many of them end up actually on the road, to be honest.
Speaker D:On.
Speaker C: Yeah, it's about: Speaker C:For.
Speaker F:For PDI?
Speaker H:Yeah.
Speaker F:Wow.
Speaker F:Do you know what that looks like in terms of what it was before?
Speaker C:Yeah, it looks about like this.
Speaker F:Where is it?
Speaker C:No, I'd have to go back through and look at what the numbers were.
Speaker C:I just know that that's kind of a ballpark figure for the moment as an average.
Speaker B:I don't know.
Speaker B:It's a lot though.
Speaker B: viously, even back in sort of: Speaker B:2016, I want to say, was when we were just kind of coming out of that of.
Speaker B:Of learners, you know, not necessarily recession, but I remember being told at the time we just, we're on the up from that previous bit and you know, maybe that's where we're heading now.
Speaker B:I don't think it's around the corner, but I think it's, you know, numbers of learners will drop and numbers of instructors are increasing.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker B:Dan, Dan, you've got your hand up.
Speaker B:What do you want us to chuck in?
Speaker D:Yeah, obviously I'm not getting called for my instructing capability because I'm not an instructor.
Speaker D:So I can only really talk about what I've seen from a broad picture.
Speaker D:And that is, you know, it's all about supply and demand.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker D:Obviously when Covid hit, two things happened.
Speaker D:We had an enormous backlog of students who would otherwise have started learning that couldn't for the best part of 18 months.
Speaker D:So the demand for lessons shot up at the same time, conversely, and I don't know when this has ever happened really.
Speaker D:Other, other than this time in modern history, we had a huge crash in instructors where, you know, 10,000 instructors decided to hang up their keys as a result of COVID And, you know, not having a desire to go back.
Speaker D:So, you know, at the same time you've got this huge demand, you've got this massive crash in supply, which is obviously increasing, which has given people the platform to be able to increase their price.
Speaker D:I think what's happened though, given that we now, I think we now have, last figures I heard was something around 16,000 PDIs currently in the system.
Speaker D:Now, the vast majority, well, vast majority of those say the vast majority probably won't ever go on to pass their part three.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker D:What's happened is they've been made redundant or they've decided on a job change over Covid.
Speaker D:They've then decided, well, you know, actually what do I want to do now?
Speaker D:Being a driving instructor looks good, everybody wants a lesson, everybody wants tests, so I'm going to become a driving instructor.
Speaker D:So that's why we've seen a massive spike, I think, in people who want to become PDIs.
Speaker D:And as Chris said, of course there's now this huge backlog because PDIs can't get part three tests right.
Speaker D:So yes, we have seen a bit of an increase in the number of driving instructors on the register, but certainly not compared.
Speaker D:So the worry is that if those, if everybody did pass, we'd have an influx of instructors, you know, which then impacts on the supply part because then we're massively oversubscribed on supply.
Speaker D:I think the backlog at the moment's gone up from around 450,000 at the end of COVID to around 650,000.
Speaker D:So the DVSA is struggling to bring those figures down because as we know, there aren't enough examiners to do the tests.
Speaker D:That has a knock on effect to the fact that a lot of students, I think having spent lots of money on getting test ready, are then in a position whereby they can't get tests.
Speaker D:So their mates are looking at it going, well, you know, I'm not going to do this now.
Speaker D:So I think people are deferring, learning to drive.
Speaker D:I think there's this generation, it's the sort of four or five years worth of generation of people that are deferring and maybe saying, do you know what, I can't be asked to do this now.
Speaker D:I'm just going to take the bus, take the train, I'm going to get my mates who have passed to drive me around.
Speaker D:And I think that we will probably find that, that the average age of people passing their tests is increasing or will increase over the next, over the, over the next few years in Terms going back to the original question before I stop talking, I think, because the, I think demand for instructors can be impacted.
Speaker D:Demand will be impacted based on different areas of the country, right?
Speaker D:You're going to have that based on population and affluence, right?
Speaker D:So you can have some areas of the country that are heavily populated who are more affluent than others, who want to go out there and are willing to pay those prices.
Speaker D:But obviously as prices keeps increasing, keep increasing, and I really, really, I'm desperate for this industry not to fall into that old habit of getting a little bit worried that the diary is getting a bit light and then reducing their price, right?
Speaker D:Can't do that, guys.
Speaker D:It has to be that this is the net, this is the new norm.
Speaker D:And like Emma said, it's like, yes, there are, you know, some people will have increased their price by say 15 pounds an hour.
Speaker D:Other people will receive.
Speaker D:Will have increased it because they're worried by £5, the average is probably about 10.
Speaker D:And I think that we need to, that has to be the new norm now.
Speaker D:Like, learning to drive has to be an investment.
Speaker D:It has to be something that people value and they do that, you know, they, you know, they need to pay the right amount of money to do that because instructors deserve it, right.
Speaker D:And they've been lowballed for a while.
Speaker D:I've seen that guys just said there'll be some racing for the bottom.
Speaker D:There will be.
Speaker D:But I think that's then comes down to how you differentiate yourself in the market, right?
Speaker D:If you're going to offer a low, those people who offer, who want to offer a nice level of service but offer a very low price will soon find that they'll go out of business because they won't be earning enough money from their business, won't be earning enough profit to survive, right?
Speaker D:And the people out there who do have the strong reputations, the people who are out on social media, who have a really strong track record, even at the higher price, they will still manage to gain that business, right?
Speaker D:So there will be an equilibrium that's met and there'll be a point whereby it gets better.
Speaker D:But, you know, if you're finding that your diary is drying up, don't think immediately, or I must reduce my price to get more business.
Speaker D:It's not the answer, right?
Speaker D:The answer is to review your service and see what you can be doing better, see whether you can be marketing yourself better, see whether you can improve the way that your service is perceived.
Speaker B:So we've got Emma, then Chris, but just before we Do I want to.
Speaker B:Just a little experiment.
Speaker B:If you think that instructors should be start decreasing their prices now, put your hands up for those listening.
Speaker B:No one has raised their hands and we've got seven clued up people here.
Speaker B:So anyone listening?
Speaker B:Because the natural instinct, and I understand this instinct, I genuinely do, the natural instinct, if you're running long work, is to reduce your prices.
Speaker B:Seven people, eight, including me, saying, do not do that.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Um, so just kind of backing up what you're saying there, Dan.
Speaker B:I think that's the important message to get across.
Speaker B:Uh, I do want to come to you, Emma, and then Chris, but just what I do.
Speaker B:Cause Ray's not chipped in yet.
Speaker B:I just wonder if there's anything you want to contribute to this, Ray, Maybe around the ADI PDI aspect.
Speaker B:Because obviously you still teach a few learners.
Speaker B:You work with ADIs and PDIs a lot.
Speaker B:So anything you want to contribute to?
Speaker G:Um, in terms of.
Speaker G:In the West Midlands area, and I don't know where everyone in, in this room's from, but in the West Midlands area, I think it's still the same, you know, five or six months before you get a test date.
Speaker G:In terms of what.
Speaker G:Just touching on what Dan was talking about there, where you're differentiating yourself and by investing in yourself and investing in your own development, you're then putting yourself, you're adding value to what you do and naturally you'll gain business because of that.
Speaker G:So people will come, will come, will want to come to you, even though your prices are higher because of how you teach, the way you teach and the value that your customers get from that.
Speaker G:And for me, that's been proven over the last 20 or 30 years in business.
Speaker G:I've taken two businesses through recession and each time we went into recession, we actually put our prices up and we screamed out how we were different.
Speaker G:Talking about what Dan said about marketing.
Speaker G:Absolutely.
Speaker G:It's about, you know, getting the message out there that you're here, but also how.
Speaker G:How you're different, how you differentiate yourself.
Speaker G:What is it about you and your business?
Speaker G:Maybe the PDIs or ADIs within your business, about your driving school.
Speaker G:What is it that's different?
Speaker D:What.
Speaker G:And that added value is worth.
Speaker G:Even in a recession or even when prices are falling in the market, definitely worth something to.
Speaker G:To pupils that will be coming to you because they.
Speaker G:They'll see that difference.
Speaker H:It touches slightly on what Ray's just said there about, you know, one of the things that we've always done is kept social media alive, even though we've Been busy.
Speaker H:Like it's like, you know, at least two, two, three times more now where we're, you know, putting stuff out on social media.
Speaker H:And I think the other side of it, touching on what Ray said there, is that when anybody messages us and asks us what the price prices are, we give or I give the prices, but I also tell them everything that's included for that price, that it's not just pay per hour, but as one of our students, you're going to get access to Theory Test Pro, you're going to get a learner driver logbook, you're going to get this, you're going to get that confident drivers and making sure that we put into that sort of almost sales pitch, if you like, of this isn't just about what you're going to give me for the hour that you're in the car.
Speaker H:This is about what you're going to get collectively from us as a driving school.
Speaker H:And it's, it's about that added value about what this person's going to receive from you.
Speaker H:Not just that one hour driving lesson or whatever it is that you're giving that they think they're exchanging money for.
Speaker H:The reason I put my hand up though was to go, go to.
Speaker H:I'm probably sat in the room, I think with the least worry with regards to test waiting times from what I've gathered of what people have said.
Speaker H:And we're probably about eight weeks here and you know, we are having eight, nine cars running out on each test time.
Speaker H:It's not very, it's very rare that we'll dip below sort of seven.
Speaker H:So we're really, really, really lucky and we're really fortunate.
Speaker H:But my question really to the other guys that are struggling to get tests in their areas is one of the things that we are struggling with here because we, our waiting list is so short in comparison to a lot of others.
Speaker H:We're getting people traveling from absolutely everywhere, all over the country.
Speaker H:But the reason that that's an issue is we've not necessarily got an issue with people taking the test here.
Speaker H:If they've got a test that they've got the right to take the test wherever they want to take it.
Speaker H:But the biggest issue that we're finding is that the, When I was, I was in the test centre on Monday with my daughter doing her driving test, worst driving test of my whole 16 year career.
Speaker H:And I was in, I stayed in the test center, I didn't want to go with her.
Speaker H:And I was talking to one of the examiners and out of the eight tests, three of them was a no show.
Speaker H:They just didn't turn up.
Speaker H:All three of them was from down south.
Speaker H:So either they've decided not to make the travel or they've decided to make the travel and it was late and missed it.
Speaker H:Or you know, there are various different reasons.
Speaker H:But then that's obviously three tests just in that one test slot that we've, we've sort of missed or were missed, should I say.
Speaker H:So I think the question is like, how often are you finding people in your area that can't get tests are asking, can I go to St. Helens and take my driving test?
Speaker H:And how often is that successful?
Speaker B:It's just before you come on to that, well, we need to clarify one thing.
Speaker B:Just because of the way you phrased it.
Speaker B:Emma, you describe your daughter's test as the worst test of your history.
Speaker H:She actually passed?
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:Not the worst result ever?
Speaker H:No, no.
Speaker H:Just for my, literally I was pacing up and down the test centre.
Speaker H:One of our examiners who's, whose candidate failed to turn up said to me, emma, whatever you do, do not look through the window.
Speaker H:It is not a good idea.
Speaker H:Do not watch her leave the car park.
Speaker H:Look at the wall and I'll watch to make sure.
Speaker H:Now one of the biggest faults that happens into Ellen's test center because of where the gates situated, they kind of come round and they're asked to turn right from the gate.
Speaker H:But because of the layout of the car park, it kind of leads them, if they're not really switched on and thinking in, in the first couple of minutes, attest to the incorrect side of the road to turn right.
Speaker H:So the examiner said to me, right, everything's fine, Emma, she's left the car park.
Speaker H:Okay, she's turned, she's turning, she's turned right out of the gate.
Speaker H:And I went, you mean she's turned correctly out of the gate?
Speaker H:I said, don't tell me she's turned right out of the gate.
Speaker H:She's turned correctly out of the gate.
Speaker H:And he's like, anna, calm down.
Speaker H:Worst test of my life.
Speaker H:But she passed.
Speaker E:Go on, Chris.
Speaker A:I'm glad she passed.
Speaker A:Congratulations.
Speaker A:Thank you to both of you.
Speaker A:So, yeah, you, you can relax now.
Speaker A:So I think, you know, just following on from all, all of that, I'll quickly touch on, on what Emma's just said about the, the out of town ones because we, we're just outside of London.
Speaker A:Some of it's just in London, it's on that kind of border.
Speaker A:So we're getting a lot of people because you can't get a test at all in London.
Speaker A:There's no wiggle room, so they're booking further out.
Speaker A:And I know our local test center manager has said that whoever is booked now for the test up to kind of two weeks before will not be the person who takes that test.
Speaker A:They're booking it because they can get one to then wiggle things around and do things that way.
Speaker A:And the reason that you're finding they're not turning out is I'm booking them just to make yours a little bit longer to make me feel better.
Speaker A:That so.
Speaker A:But yeah, I think there's a lot of that going on.
Speaker A:I think also they're, they're booking it on the hope that they'll be able to go there or that they're looking for a test locally and they're thinking, actually, you know, I'll leave it there because if I let it go, I can't get another one.
Speaker A:And it's, it's those moving pieces of the waiting list, which again, we are not good at looking at those things just as human beings.
Speaker A:You know, it's, it's the same as trying to watch the patterns of ants or something.
Speaker A:It's not going to make sense to us and we're always going to base it on the one that we've experienced.
Speaker A:And it's, you know, I think there's so much more to it, which is why I'm careful every time I contradict or argue with the DVSA about, about how they're seeing that because they've got much bigger access to, you know, management information systems and everything else.
Speaker A:I still think they're often wrong and make assumptions because they're not seeing our side of it.
Speaker A:And there's a bit of both as to, you know, the number of calls we get where it's.
Speaker A:I've got a test and you know, can you take me?
Speaker A:Because my instructors unfortunately died.
Speaker A:It's amazing that so many people still on the register.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:But going back to what Dan said and Ray followed on from about, you know, what does success look like?
Speaker A:That not dropping prices but trying to.
Speaker A:To show yourself as being better than everybody else.
Speaker A:Better driver training, Seven Oaks, Maidstone areas.
Speaker A:But, you know, put it in the name.
Speaker A:That's what we did upset a lot of people.
Speaker A:So we're not good at that.
Speaker A:We're not not good at.
Speaker A:Look at looking.
Speaker A:Differentiating ourselves.
Speaker A:Because even the.
Speaker A:I'll say the worst instructor.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:You can decide what that means.
Speaker A:But we'll just to put it on an end of a scale because Ray's here and he loves the scale.
Speaker A:The, the, the worst instructor will be saying that they're teaching safe driving for life, that you know, they're getting all these pass rates and everything else.
Speaker A:And what we do to project that is we put past pictures up, we put the end of the journey and actually that test is the same for everybody, it's standardized.
Speaker A:What is also not the end of the journey because do they crash afterwards?
Speaker A:And I'd much rather that was a statistic we used, but we haven't got it.
Speaker A:So the differentiation becomes the journey from when they come to you and when they get to the test and what they get in between.
Speaker A:So, and it's something we're looking at doing as a driving school better because we don't trying to portray that journey and how you stand out from your lessons being different because the test is the same for everyone and they either pass or fail.
Speaker A:That's it.
Speaker A:It's a binary system.
Speaker A:But actually is the lesson awesome?
Speaker A:That's a totally different scale.
Speaker A:So I think what we could do as an industry is highlight what good lessons are better and what good instructors are, which none of us will agree on because the DVSA couldn't figure it out either.
Speaker A:But whatever that is, portray it and whatever your version of good is, but don't do it based on test passes because that's, you know, it's what they're looking for in a way.
Speaker A:But they don't know what they need.
Speaker A:What they need is the journey to get there.
Speaker A:And by making that good and standing out, you, you will instantly differentiate yourself from those people who are test focused and who are just putting up past, past pictures and such.
Speaker A:So I think if we can improve our version of success then as an industry it will bolster everybody to keep prices where they are rather than, and compete on other things.
Speaker A:And it could be quite interesting.
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Speaker E: ch between lessons, make sure: Speaker F:I just wanted to go off what Ray and Chris and the others were saying.
Speaker F:I know for a fact nowadays that learners are becoming more clued up as well.
Speaker F:So they are.
Speaker F:They're starting to understand more about what they need.
Speaker F:And in terms of social media, the market is saturated, but it's saturated with a whole lot of fluff and clickbait and misinformation.
Speaker F:And again, slowly but surely people are becoming more and more clued up.
Speaker F:So although it might not feel like it and Emma, I don't think it's luck.
Speaker F:I think it's that you're actually really good at what you do.
Speaker F:That's why you have all your cars on the road a lot of the time.
Speaker F:So I hate the word luck because I don't think it's.
Speaker F:I think you make your own.
Speaker F:I know it's really cringey, but learners becoming a lot more clued up.
Speaker F:I do think that the types of people that are starting to train to become driving instructors, the, the demographic is changing and it's people who are maybe, maybe present as a little bit more relatable than the typical present company excluded of course, driving instructor.
Speaker F:Although surprisingly not as many women as I thought.
Speaker F:I think that that's a whole other issue.
Speaker F:But I think that I think the demographic is changing of Javan instructors.
Speaker F:I think that students becoming more clued up and 99% of 17 to 35 year olds have smartphones.
Speaker F:Something crazy like 91% of 17 to 31 year olds use their phones for absolutely everything from banking to entertainment to news to, to services and products and social media is a massive part of that.
Speaker F:So I have preached, as Terry knows for God knows how many years, that now is the time to get busy on social media while you're busy, while you.
Speaker F:Because everything is content.
Speaker F:I say that all the time and I'm sure Terry's had enough of me saying it, but everything is content.
Speaker F:And while you are busy, it's easy to, to create content that will demonstrate who you are, what you're capable of, what it would be like to sit in a car with, with you for two hours and pay to do that.
Speaker F:Like Emma said, what is it that you're offering somebody?
Speaker F:Because there are a lot of us out there and we do, we are expensive comparative to a cup of coffee or when you think of the age of the type of people that are paying or the fact that parents are paying so people are looking for something extra or they're looking to be able to go.
Speaker F:My driving instructor is great.
Speaker F:And I don't, I don't think that it's always about the test pass anymore either.
Speaker F:When I was a pdi, which I'm not anymore, but that's another story.
Speaker F:I'm not at the moment I was on my pink license and I realized very quickly that my target market was younger females who were a little bit anxious because I am a female, not so much on the younger scale these days, but I am a little bit anxious.
Speaker F:And so we were really able to relate to each other.
Speaker F:And I had three students at one point and they all moved on to other instructors after I stopped.
Speaker F:And every single one of them said we had one that said, oh my God, my instructor, just like you, I felt so much better.
Speaker F:And the other two both said I just wish I had you still.
Speaker F:And that's because my.
Speaker F:I was able to understand my target market, sell to them and I knew that I could get the results.
Speaker F:Obviously for me it's different because I'm literally in social media, but they know what they want and they learn very quickly.
Speaker F:So you have to find a way to, to demonstrate your usp cuz we've all got one and I'm gonna shut up a minute, I promise.
Speaker F:But the other thing is, talking about how you market yourself is you're like literally you're your brand, you are the product.
Speaker F:So it should be quite easy to be able to work out what it is that you can sell because it's like it's you.
Speaker B:I love listening to Laura, I love listening to you all, but I love listening to Laura and I love listening to Dan because they're both really eloquent and they talk quite passionately about the things that they like.
Speaker B:I really, really want to listen to both have a conversation and see who does the longest monologue each time.
Speaker F:I wonder whether it will ever end.
Speaker B:Is anyone else Want to come back on anything we've touched on there before we open this up to some of your questions?
Speaker B:Excellent.
Speaker B:So I am going to see if this works.
Speaker B:I'm going to go in order of the time people came into my waiting room.
Speaker B:So, Rob Stone, if you have a question, chuck yourself on camera.
Speaker B:If you don't have a question, tell me in the chat because I don't want to spend five minutes waiting to see if anyone comes on camera.
Speaker B:Yeah, if bring yourself on for your question.
Speaker B:If not, tell me in chat.
Speaker B:And I'm just gonna have to make small talk until I found out either way because I've noticed recently and it took me years to figure this out, there's a delay in me asking to people doing the thing.
Speaker B:Guy's got no question he's preempting me for that one.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:So I've got no response from Rob yet, so I'm going to move on and I'm going to say Rita, Rita Moore, if you have a question.
Speaker B:Hold on.
Speaker B:Someone like yourself.
Speaker B:Yes, Rita.
Speaker B:Rita, come on.
Speaker B:Do you want to unmute yourself and then fire away with that question?
Speaker H:Can you hear me?
Speaker A:Yep.
Speaker H:Wondering what your thoughts are on the new driving test booking system just being talked about online on the ABI MJC and what you think might happen.
Speaker B:Is there something you want someone you want to kick that off or do you want me to pick on your behalf?
Speaker H:No, just anybody who has anything else on it.
Speaker E:Right.
Speaker B:So the person I've seen be more vocal so far.
Speaker B:To be fair, that's usually the same case every time.
Speaker B:Mr. Benstead, thoughts on the new driving test booking system?
Speaker A:I'm not sure I've got an opinion.
Speaker A:No.
Speaker A:There's a very good article on the DITC website if you want to have a look at it.
Speaker A:So finally we're there.
Speaker A:We have someone in place.
Speaker A:There's been planning going on in the background, so.
Speaker A:So there's now the person who's going to put it together.
Speaker A:That doesn't mean we're anywhere near a system.
Speaker A:It's a tier one system.
Speaker A:What that means is more red tape, more hoops to jump through, more paperwork.
Speaker A:That doesn't mean it's a priority system and it's going to be there, you know, there quicker.
Speaker A:So I'm not holding my breath.
Speaker A:But that does mean that we're not going to know for a lot longer.
Speaker A:The biggest thing is going to be for me is going to be what is that system going to include?
Speaker A:And I've still got my money on the OBS system not being part of it because it makes it cheaper.
Speaker A:They haven't got much money for this new system and it makes it more streamlined.
Speaker A:Interestingly, they're trying out having to have your license as a proof of ID for the on the theory system.
Speaker A:So I'm expecting that to come into, into the practical system.
Speaker A:Whether it'll fit into the new system, the current system or not is the big question.
Speaker A:It's.
Speaker A:It's those unknowns that, that's the, the biggest issue.
Speaker A:And I think we're still a long way from it.
Speaker A:It's.
Speaker A:It's one of those political statements of making sure that we know that there is progress being made and occasionally the tortoise does beat the hare.
Speaker A:In this case, I wonder if we're all going to still be around when we're waiting for this system to be put in place.
Speaker A:I don't know.
Speaker A:I'm looking forward to a DVSA meeting in a couple of weeks when maybe we'll hear a little bit more of the actual timeline that we're looking at.
Speaker B:Take it away.
Speaker D:I think this my.
Speaker D:I hope that I have some, some credibility in this space given that I've spent my whole career in software development.
Speaker D:And I can say with almost absolute certainty that we won't see any kind of new system for probably about three years.
Speaker D:And this is primarily because there's a combination of things right there in software, as in there is in most walks of life.
Speaker D:There's the golden triangle, right?
Speaker D:And the golden triangle is made up of obviously three sides, one side being quality, the other side being time, and the other side being cost, right?
Speaker D:And you can only ever have two of those three things in a software development project.
Speaker D:If you want quality and you want speed, then you're going to have to pay a lot of money for it, right?
Speaker D:If you want something that, that is quick and cheap, then you've got to compromise in quality, right?
Speaker D:So there's always that, there's, there's always that third bit that you have to give up for this, for the other two.
Speaker D:And what I'm hearing is not only is the existing systems so antiquated, right, that they, that they've struggled to find developers who can still develop and code in the languages required to manage it.
Speaker D:But it's just so stuck in the mud.
Speaker D:So, I mean, people, it's just so complex.
Speaker D:In public bodies like this, you get a lot of different developers and they all get in, you know, they all get into the program, they all tinker with it a little bit.
Speaker D:With their own style of working, and then it becomes an.
Speaker D:It becomes a wholly unmanageable dog's dinner.
Speaker D:So it's absolutely right that they're looking at wanting to complete, to create a complete system, but they're going to have to create it from the ground up.
Speaker D:And that's going to mean months and months of, just like Chris says, the red tape, just to get started.
Speaker D:It's going to take probably six to nine months just to fully understand the requirements.
Speaker D:And you'd hope that they'll do that properly, but there's no guarantee that they will.
Speaker D:Probably another six months to actually design it, probably another 12 months to then actually build it in a way and get it properly tested.
Speaker D:And I hate saying this, right, because it sounds snobby, but the fact of the matter is, in public institutions, in public sector, the caliber of developers is far less than the caliber of developers in private sector, because the vast majority of companies who wants to get the best possible developers to work on their systems are willing to pay it because they can, they can, they can pay the money, they can pay the money, so they get the better caliber developers.
Speaker D:So quite aside from everything else I've just said, in terms of timescale, I should imagine that the quality of development that goes into it, I hate to say it, but it's just fact.
Speaker D:And I'm sure that they would turn around and say, no, no, no, we're the best, you know, developers in the land.
Speaker D:Sorry, but that's unlikely.
Speaker D:So I suspect you're probably looking at three years and there's not even a guarantee then that it will be great.
Speaker A:And 73 million, from an educated point of view, is that a lot?
Speaker A:I'll have it if someone wants to give it to me.
Speaker A:I'm not saying no, right?
Speaker A:I'm not putting it down.
Speaker A:But is that a lot of money for a system that is this kind of system?
Speaker D:I mean, the thing is, Chris, is, and this is the sad fact, right, the vast majority of these systems that get put in place, possibly the NHS system aside, um, but even with that, the amount of money that's paid to organizations because of the scope of red tape and the number of consultants and people that need to get paid, it's ludicrous, right?
Speaker D:£73 million for a system like this is a vast waste of taxpayer money.
Speaker D:Vast waste, right?
Speaker D:My company, I could go, if I had the staff, we would go in there, we could build this system for 500,000, right?
Speaker D:So to say 73 million is a.
Speaker D:Is a.
Speaker D:Is an utter Joke.
Speaker D:Because it's not actually that complicated a system, right?
Speaker D:From a database and a technical perspective it's not that complicated, right.
Speaker D:Yet the 73 million will go to backhanders and it'll go into pockets and it will just get lost, right?
Speaker D:People will put in invoices for 6,000 pound when they should be putting in invoices.
Speaker D:600.
Speaker D:That's what happens in public sector development, right?
Speaker D:Which is why usually it's all the big boys that get the contract and people like us don't get them, right?
Speaker D:Because it's, you know, smoky drawing rooms where everyone pats each other on the back, sadly.
Speaker D:So that's the long short of it.
Speaker B:So just this is a genuine question, I promise.
Speaker B:It's not going to sound it, but it's a genuine question.
Speaker B:Dan, when I asked for the three words at the beginning, he used the word optimistic.
Speaker B:Is that three year time scale you mentioned, is that optimistic or is that realistic?
Speaker D:I think it's, I think even three years is unrealistic.
Speaker D:Given what I know of public sector and especially, you know, the dvsa, I would be very surprised, very surprised.
Speaker D:And even if it does come about, it will be fraught with problems, right?
Speaker D:You're probably looking at a five year project to be fair.
Speaker D:But you know, that's, that's just my opinion.
Speaker D:I might be totally wrong but you know, you won't invite me back if I am wrong because obviously I would have shot my credibility in the rear.
Speaker D:But you know, that's, that's, that's where we're at, I'm sorry to say.
Speaker D:Because you know, if you've got a cr, if you've got a capable, you know, capable private sector company in there that was motivated to build it and had good quality developers, you'd probably have it out within two and it would work.
Speaker D:But you know, that's on.
Speaker D:It's so frustrating.
Speaker D:I can't tell you if I'm not hiding my frustration.
Speaker D:I don't actually mean to because it really irritates me being honest.
Speaker B:Oh, I don't think that saying it's going to take them a long time will reduce your credibility at all even if you're proved wrong.
Speaker B:Because everyone I think will assume that they may say, may take it take a while.
Speaker B:But I want to ask, Tom, I want to ask you your thoughts on this.
Speaker B:I know that you necessarily can't give the opinion of the ADR njc, but you are the vice chair of the ADI njc, so I'm wondering your thoughts on this.
Speaker B:New booking system.
Speaker C:I think it's going to be awesome.
Speaker C:I reckon it'll take six months.
Speaker C:It'll just fix all the problems and we can, you know, just go back to talking about, you know, should we stop on WL lines or not.
Speaker C:No, honestly, you know, I agree with Dan, unfortunately.
Speaker C:Sorry, Dan.
Speaker C:I agree with a lot of what Dan says and Chris says.
Speaker C:I like to think the positives.
Speaker C:I'm glad that they're doing something because we don't live in a perfect world and we know we'd all like to change things and it's not that easy.
Speaker C:So I'm pleased they're doing something.
Speaker C:Will it be what everybody wants?
Speaker C:No, because you just cannot.
Speaker C:Please.
Speaker C:Adis.
Speaker C:So I do feel sorry for them in that respect.
Speaker B:You know what?
Speaker B:I think I'm similar to you in that sense.
Speaker B:I'm very pessimistic about this, if I'm honest.
Speaker B:I'm pessimistic on both Chris's and Dan's viewpoint and that it wouldn't surprise me if I'd leave the industry in seven years and there's still no new booking system.
Speaker B:And it also wouldn't surprise me if they do it and then there's no option for driving instructors or.
Speaker B:It's what we don't like.
Speaker B:You know, if the Mecca.
Speaker B:Pigs.
Speaker B:Dogs didn't.
Speaker B:Dogs didn't have pigs here.
Speaker B:One of those two out of it both.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker B:But I'm actually also really pleased that they're at least doing something because it's needed it for a long time.
Speaker B:It could have been done five years ago and it would have been hopefully done by now, but at least I've started that ball rolling.
Speaker B:I think there's.
Speaker B:There's a little bit of positivity there, at least I think.
Speaker B:Anyone else want to touch back on this theory?
Speaker B:Theory test, driving, test booking system.
Speaker B:Excellent.
Speaker B:In which case, let's bring in the next question, which I believe is Penny.
Speaker B:So, Penny, get this, like, bang straight in.
Speaker B:This is what I like.
Speaker B:This is the organization we need.
Speaker B:Excellent.
Speaker B:Penny, what is your question?
Speaker H:I've got three questions.
Speaker H:So which number?
Speaker H:One, two or three?
Speaker A:Two.
Speaker B:There you go.
Speaker H:Right.
Speaker H:What do you do to encourage your trainees to invest in themselves, not just financially, but with a commitment to study and reflection?
Speaker B:Is there someone you want to find out first or should I pick someone?
Speaker H:You didn't pick someone, Terry.
Speaker B:Laura, ask someone that was recently a pdi.
Speaker F:I knew you were gonna do that.
Speaker B:Would you suggest that people do that?
Speaker F:How would you know what the reason why I'm Actually, not doing it at the moment is because the last time I did it, I wanted to do it, I wanted to pass, but I didn't invest in myself in terms of time.
Speaker F:And what then happened was I knew I wasn't ready.
Speaker F:I felt probably a little bit ashamed of the fact that I hadn't invested in myself.
Speaker F:And so I waited too long before I booked my part three.
Speaker F:And it's a shame because I'd been on a pink and I knew I could do it and I knew I was good and I knew that I'd only get better.
Speaker F:So I'm currently going.
Speaker F:I mean, I work.
Speaker F:I have two jobs, I work four to six hours a week and I have two young children and I've just moved house.
Speaker F:So I know that right now, if I was to put that on myself, I would be setting myself up for failure again.
Speaker F:So, I mean, use people, use me as a case study, because I could have.
Speaker F:I could be doing the job now.
Speaker F:I could have a green badge, I could be making a living from being a driving instructor, but I didn't.
Speaker F:Didn't put my priorities in the correct order.
Speaker F:However, what I will say is that if I had, I had access to a plethora of amazing people that I really could have learned from.
Speaker F:In that sense, I'm in a very unique position because I don't think other PDIs, because I've come at it from a very bizarre angle.
Speaker F:I don't think PDIs know what resources are out there at all.
Speaker F:I don't know.
Speaker F:I don't think they know who to speak to.
Speaker F:I know that I'm on kind of this side of the training industry, which is full of lots and lots of people who really care and who prioritize CPD and prioritize safe driving for life and prioritize all the right things to make you good at what you do and make you enjoy it.
Speaker F:But I. I don't.
Speaker F:I think there's so many people out there that don't.
Speaker F:And just from my own experience of when I've posted on social media, on my personal and my business account, lots and lots of PDI's are really, really unhappy, unsure, unmotivated, and it's really hard to invest in yourself.
Speaker F:You don't know where to look.
Speaker F:So that's.
Speaker B:I like that answer.
Speaker B:Thank you.
Speaker B:Tom, you were waving first.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:I've got two parts to this, actually.
Speaker C:Penny, because we're quite lucky with our driving school, because we do an interview process.
Speaker C:In fact, we do two interview processes.
Speaker C:One, when somebody comes to us to try and join us.
Speaker C:And then one, once they've qualified, if they've demonstrated what we want in an instructor, we'll do another interview and then we might offer them, you know, a position.
Speaker C:So we found that by doing that, we are actually filtering out earlier on the types of people who perhaps don't want to invest in themselves.
Speaker C:Now, as a business owner, that's really hard to turn work down when somebody's offering you money.
Speaker C:But we want to try and do things differently and we've got to stick to our morals to do that.
Speaker C:So that's how I've found at the moment, we're managing to have the right people on who genuinely want to be enthused.
Speaker C:They want to invest in themselves because we filtered them.
Speaker C:My second part of that question is I still deliver a lot of training for people who just contact me and that is much harder.
Speaker C:But I find often the feedback that I get is my enthusiasm helps them and that's probably not always a good thing.
Speaker C:So my enthusiasm to try and do CPD myself or being on things like this, where I'm going to suggest that all trainees come and listen to Terry waffle on with lots of guests, even the ones that live down south, you know, I find that that begins to help as well.
Speaker C:But yeah, it's such a difficult thing because you get lots of people who come into the industry who go, I want to become a driving instructor.
Speaker C:I reckon it'll be easy.
Speaker C:I like driving.
Speaker B:Just before we come to you, Chris, there's a comment by Rob in the chat.
Speaker B:He says, I'm a PDI now, so good luck.
Speaker B:I invest financially and definitely time biggest problem is filtering out the crap on social media.
Speaker B:I'm lucky to have a great trainer.
Speaker B:Laura, I'm going to come back to you soon to talk about how we filter out the crap on social media.
Speaker B:So do not let me forget that.
Speaker B:Right, But Chris, go on, you were giving me a wave.
Speaker A:Yeah, I think directly answering Penny's question, we probably take a slightly different view and we tell them don't, because.
Speaker A:And this fits in with what Rob's saying, there's too much out there at the minute and it's really hard that.
Speaker A:So with my DITC hat on the conversation I have the most with PDIs and new ADIs and experienced ADIs who are looking to improve themselves is that there's so much there, they're drowned by it and they don't know where to go.
Speaker A:So we highlight the fact that they've come to us for A reason.
Speaker A:Let us guide that ship while they're busy trying to figure out how to float it and to keep on top of it and everything else.
Speaker A:And then we will help them structure that CPD development side of things as soon as they've got capacity for it, because otherwise they, they will and they do get overloaded.
Speaker A:And my, my approach to it has been for a long time, be selfish.
Speaker A:And I think, you know, there's a lot of people saying, you know, not wrongly, but they're focused on this client centered, client led coaching, that world of things approach, which is awesome.
Speaker A:And I've always been a part of it before it was even a word because that's how I've approached things in my training.
Speaker A:But actually it's okay to be selfish and to focus on you, improving you because if you make you better, your pupils will benefit every single time.
Speaker A:So you can get lost in all this, what One of my PDIs calls woo woo.
Speaker A:And she does the crystals and everything else.
Speaker A:Emma would love her, you know, get on so well, but.
Speaker A:And it's great and I have no issue with it, but I do find it funny that, you know, you, you kind of look at it and go, well, that's not part of driving instructor.
Speaker A:But it is for her peoples and they're great and they love it.
Speaker A:So in the same way with the industry, you know, we need to be really careful about how much we expose people to when they've got limited capacity anyway.
Speaker A:So be selfish and exactly as Rob said, have a good trainer who will give you some guidance on that so you don't get lost.
Speaker A:And then when you're ready for it, go and explore.
Speaker A:And one of the best ways is to get in touch with Terry because I tell everyone to, to message him directly and ask because he loves that.
Speaker A:But I've now found out you just go to the website, there's a button you can click and it will tell you exactly what to do to start and how to get started, which is even better.
Speaker A:All right, I'm still going to tell him to message him, but do that when you're ready for it.
Speaker A:Don't feel that you've got to take on the world and embrace the industry, because I'm still figuring it out and it's been a good number of years now.
Speaker A:It's why the DITC started because people couldn't find things.
Speaker A:And I'm still having the conversation with people who say it's such a shame there isn't a podcast out there about driving for driving instructors or it's such a shame that there isn't a system that.
Speaker A:This was a conversation last week from a developer who said, I've got this system that I'd like to provide driving instructors that will manage their diary and their finance because there's nothing out there that does it.
Speaker A:You know, it's our fault.
Speaker A:It's not their fault.
Speaker A:As an industry, we are absolutely rotten at putting things on the table and making, making it visible for people.
Speaker A:We haven't, we haven't got that, that structure the directory, if you like.
Speaker A:So everybody shouts and it's whoever shouts loudest and what happens is we all get lost amongst the noise.
Speaker A:So I think that's something we need to change as well, is how we shout about that, how we, how we champion products and things.
Speaker A:And that starts with pre PDIs not being able to find decent trainers and ending up taking whatever they found rather than actually being able to compare things and look at the difference.
Speaker A:They just believe the sales pattern rather than the, you know, look at the other things that we know are important and it goes right across the board.
Speaker A:So, yeah, be selfish, do less, but make more out of it and then you can find your path and you can find what you're interested in and the thing that excites you most.
Speaker A:Last thing, one of my kids, can't remember which one it was, was saying about, oh, my 15 year old now turned 15 last week and he did work experience with me and we went to a business networking meeting and he came out and he went, hang on a second.
Speaker A:You mean all of those people run businesses, they're having fun?
Speaker A:I've been told that work is boring and you spend most of your day doing stuff you don't want to.
Speaker A:Why do what we do?
Speaker A:You might get annoyed, frustrated and angry and it might be hard work, but it's fun, hard work.
Speaker A:I love what I do do that, you know, it shouldn't be difficult.
Speaker B:We're going to come to you next then, Laura, but just before we do, Chris, I genuinely thought the most common thing that people asked you or said to you was that they really like your podcast.
Speaker A:I get that a lot as well.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:But, you know, and also two quick things.
Speaker B:Firstly, no one has ever actually messaged me on the back of you saying message me.
Speaker A:Which they probably go to the.
Speaker A:Yeah, they probably go to the website and find the button.
Speaker B:Secondly, no one goes to the website at the minute is down, but thanks for the plug.
Speaker B:Right, Ray, sorry.
Speaker B:Go.
Speaker B:Go for it.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker G:Just to add to what's been said so far, I think right at the start, for me, it's about having that open and honest conversation, you know, when you meet the potential trainee.
Speaker G:And I mean, I remember when I came into the industry and I think I was guilty of going into it to a large degree with my eyes closed.
Speaker G:And I wish at the time I'd done a bit more research and I wish someone had sat down and had a conversation with me about, you know, what it's like to train, what the industry's like, what the opportunities are, what the avenues are, how difficult it can be, how much of your time you might need to invest in yourself, how might that impact on your family life, all the bits and pieces about what it's like to run your own business.
Speaker G:And I think I've come to learn when I've had those conversations with a potential trainee, that you take them through that nice process of filtering in a nice sense of the word, because you are helping them realize with their eyes wide open what they might have to prioritize in their life, what's motivating them, what's driving them to become this thing.
Speaker G:Not that it's just an option for me now I've been made redundant, for example.
Speaker G:So when you're having that eyes wide open, nuts and bolts conversation, they then come from a position that they fully understand to the degree that you've helped them understand it, what it is that they're going into and how much of, how much effort is required to push them through and drive them through.
Speaker G:I remember when I went through my training and like a lot of us here, I knew because I wanted it so much that I put the effort in and I was motivated to do it.
Speaker G:And I think when you tap on that motivation, that drive and that reasoning for wanting to be at the time a driving instructor and what that meant for you and your life and maybe even even your family that was supporting you and all these things below this iceberg that are there supporting you and pushing you and driving you on, I think when you've got those motivating things behind you, you're much more likely to succeed.
Speaker G:But having that open conversation about what the industry's like, what, what the best opportunities for training are, where, where that person might get that from and why really then gives them an opportunity to, to make a decision based on a fuller, a fuller picture that they understand what's required and they understand the, the effort that they might need to go to, but, but more importantly, they understand where the support, where the support can come from and, and who that they can rely on to get them through what for some is quite a hard journey.
Speaker G:We talk about a journey for some, it's very hard for some.
Speaker G:I've come across people that have gone round twice and they're still trying and the tenaciousness and the drive to want to do it is amazing.
Speaker G:And so it's helping people like that to find their path on the understanding of what's required and how, what might be needed from them.
Speaker F:Laura, I was just listening to what you were saying from quite a strange perspective as somebody who has been a PDI and does want to do well but hasn't prioritized for various reasons.
Speaker F:And I do think probably, almost definitely anybody here would be different to my personal experience and that of those who I talk to.
Speaker F:But I think there's an element as well of the support, the, like, the personal support through the journey.
Speaker F:So the check ins, the how are you doing, the what are you struggling with?
Speaker F:I think I would have really benefited from if my trainer had come to me because I got to the point where I was actually dreading his phone calls because I felt like I was going to get told off.
Speaker F:So what I would have benefited from was somebody saying do you know what, like this is okay or what can I do to help you?
Speaker F:Or how can we tackle this together?
Speaker F:It felt very much like a student headmaster relationship where I felt constantly anxious because I knew I hadn't put the work in because everything else in my life was happening and I didn't know how to balance it.
Speaker F:And I have since had conversations with other people who are much better at that.
Speaker F:And that's why I've decided not to start my training until I'm settled where I've lit, where I now live, because there's no point, because I know I won't be able to give it my time.
Speaker F:But I would guarantee you that there are so, so many people out there like me who have lost motivation, maybe failed their part two once and know that they're going to run out of time or have not been able to pay for the insurance for their pink license and know they're going to run out of time or there's so many, there are so many hurdles that you come across in that, in that two year period essentially.
Speaker F:And I think there is not enough access to the hand holding or to the check ins and I know there's lots of people that do it because I'm literally looking at most of you.
Speaker F:But there's, there's, but you are a very specific Part of this industry that I happen to know, that I know lots of people don't know.
Speaker F:And I think that that's a.
Speaker F:There's a big gap where people who are like me end up feeling really let down and demotivated and, and essentially throwing their money away.
Speaker F:And I, and I would love to work out a way that, that people like you can tap into that.
Speaker B:We have got some top quality trainers on this zoom right now, but that's the answer right there.
Speaker B:Chris, you're waving.
Speaker B:Go on top of that.
Speaker A:What you were gonna ask Laura about, it kind of fits in with about, you know, the social media and the noise of it and everything else.
Speaker A:I can't shout much louder.
Speaker A:I can shout differently and I'm constantly trying to, and I'm doing that at the moment.
Speaker A:Chrisbenstead.co.uk if anyone wants to have a look.
Speaker A:So I can't shout louder.
Speaker A:And I am, I'm very much aware that if I walk into a room full of driving instructors, despite other people's opinion, the majority won't know who I am.
Speaker A:And if I talk to PDIs, pre PDI, none of them will know who I am.
Speaker A:But I, you know, I think I'm fairly central inside, inside of what we would see as the industry that, you know, most, most people in our bit of things do, do or, you know, don't like me, one or the other, and that's fine.
Speaker A:So, you know, but they're aware of me.
Speaker A:They at least know who my name is, you know, what my name is and everything else.
Speaker A:So from that social media shouting perspective, from the new people coming through, who are the ones that we all want to get, you know, in contact with because we want to partly help them, stop them making mistakes, hold their hand and help them through, partly sell them our products and services because we know they're good and that's why we do them.
Speaker A:How, what, what, what do we need to do differently?
Speaker A:Because if we can't do louder, how do we do it in a different, different way?
Speaker F:Okay, are you asking me the question?
Speaker F:Because I'm going to answer, I say this with the utmost respect.
Speaker F:Is it up or up utmost?
Speaker F:Anyway, to everybody that I am looking at on screen, there is a lot of industry speak.
Speaker F:So when you are first starting out, it's really hard to explain.
Speaker F:There is an element of when you're first starting out and you know very little, but you know, you want to do the job, you look to people like you and you see them as all the way up there versus where you are.
Speaker F:And it's really difficult to kind of be, not, relate.
Speaker F:You need to have conversations, like on their levels.
Speaker F:So I'm going to give you an example because I'm not explaining it very well.
Speaker F:I have a TikTok page for the ADI Hub, which is an app that I'm project manager for now.
Speaker F:I very much create content based on the fact that I'm a PDI or I'm.
Speaker F:I'm training to, to be a driving instructor.
Speaker F:And that's where my headspace is.
Speaker F:And I have discovered the most wonderful community of people who are in the same shoes as me.
Speaker F:And off the back of that, those people have found people who are ADIs or ADI trainers who have commented on the same content that I create and given them advice.
Speaker F:And they've.
Speaker F:And, and there has been a dialogue created, but it's, there's a very little, there's very little space.
Speaker F:As a PDI who doesn't know everything yet and is very early on in the stage that is very visible.
Speaker F:I'm not saying that there isn't lots of space for it because there is, but there is very little space on.
Speaker F:I'm gonna go on tick tock and scroll and see what I can see or I'm gonna.
Speaker F:And, and in terms of things that they can relate to.
Speaker F:So the things that I've spoken about are, do you use the.
Speaker F:Oh my God, I haven't got words.
Speaker F:Do you use the, the cinnamon synonyms?
Speaker F:Cinnamon.
Speaker F:Cinnamon.
Speaker F:To use cinnamon.
Speaker F:Do you use a. Synonyms?
Speaker F:Do you struggle with the test, the test waiting times?
Speaker F:Do you charge for cancellations?
Speaker F:Do you.
Speaker F:There's lots of things where people who have just started out in the industry, understand what I'm talking about, feel like they have something they can say about that, and then that's when they start asking questions and then other people come in and reply and they can relate.
Speaker F:But there's, there is a gap between us and you.
Speaker F:And sometimes I think the language and the way we speak, it gets lost and people don't feel like they can
Speaker A:relate, but we're drowning in bullshit and we need to get rid of that so that they can hear what we're trying to say.
Speaker F:Yeah.
Speaker F:Because everything you say, you have a lot of really, really good things to say.
Speaker F:But I just think sometimes people.
Speaker F:I feel bad now, Chris, but you're
Speaker B:right, though, and this is me getting on my arouse now, because you're 100% right, because it's about talking to your audience.
Speaker B:And I'll use.
Speaker B:It's not What I do, as the example, is the instructor podcast.
Speaker B:It's aimed at instructors, not it's aimed at adis.
Speaker B:That's who it's aimed at.
Speaker B:Now, of course PDI can gain from it.
Speaker B:Of course I can.
Speaker B:You know, we've got PDI's in the, in the chat now.
Speaker B:They will gain from this 100%.
Speaker B:But my target audience was instructors.
Speaker B:And the whole mission behind this first podcast, going back season one, was to promote people that weren't visible.
Speaker B:You know, the likes of season one, Mick Knowles, Chris Benson, Rob Cooling, you know, these people that were offering things that were different to standards check training, but they weren't, they weren't seen as much because it wasn't standards check training.
Speaker B:And I was very much right.
Speaker B:I want to promote these people.
Speaker B:And that's been the ongoing thread.
Speaker B:So my language very much targeted or aimed towards driving instructors.
Speaker B:When I'm writing on my social media for learners, that language switches completely.
Speaker B:I will talk about minors.
Speaker B:I don't say driving faults.
Speaker B:What learner knows what a driving fault is?
Speaker B:I say minors.
Speaker B:Right?
Speaker B:And it's same with PDIs.
Speaker B:You try and just shift your words a little bit, but you're 100% right in that.
Speaker B:And you know what?
Speaker B:I'm not going to go down that road.
Speaker B:We'll come back to that shortly because I'm going to move on because I want to come to Andy, I want to get Andy's thoughts on Penny's initial question about sort of gauging PDIs a bit more.
Speaker E:I was going to jump in, but listening to all the answers, I kind of feel like I lost what the actual question was.
Speaker E:But what my point was, we've spoken this before.
Speaker E:There is too much noise.
Speaker E:There's too much people trying to be like other people.
Speaker E:I think the most powerful thing any PDI could do is self reflect on what works for them and their lessons and obviously what doesn't, and then they can look at improving in that sense.
Speaker E:But if they're not focusing on what actually works and, and using every lesson to help themselves improve and seeing how that helps with their learners, because that's more important than trying to be somebody else and trying to do it a way that somebody else does it, we had an episode.
Speaker E:There's no right and wrong way of teaching someone to drive.
Speaker E:Everyone does it differently.
Speaker E:But what works, works.
Speaker E:So strive on that and build on that.
Speaker B:And if only there was some kind of logbook that people could use to help them engage with cpd.
Speaker B:That's a cue for you to Come in, Emma.
Speaker H:Yeah, I purposely muted myself then because the, the, the child that passed a test, this clever one, has just been knocking on this window right at the side of me where she can see what I'm doing.
Speaker H:So I muted myself because then the dog kicked off.
Speaker H:But yes, There is a CPD log book and that's on our website or driving school.co.uk Dan, I just want to
Speaker B:touch on, on you briefly with this because I think this kind of.
Speaker B:Right, essentially amalgamates everything we've been speaking about because I mentioned the insured podcast and one of the big things I do is promote things and people I believe in.
Speaker B:And, and just to clarify, if someone hasn't been on, doesn't mean I don't believe in them.
Speaker B:It's just I haven't got ground to them yet.
Speaker B:But you do that as well, you know, in my drive time, the, there's sections in there where you promote with people.
Speaker B:You champion certain driving schools and certain organizations.
Speaker B:Do it on your social media, you do it elsewhere as well.
Speaker B:Is that a way we can get, you know, PDI's potentially a bit more engaged if in the, I'm going to use a really bad term, the correct areas by promoting the people that we believe in and not just only promoting ourselves.
Speaker D:Yeah, I'm a bit conflicted in terms of answering this, Terry, because I have ideas and I'm not sure I'm ready to share them with public ether yet.
Speaker D:Um, I think that, yeah, it's really tough one because I'm sitting here just, you know.
Speaker D:Yeah, I, I, I can't really answer it, to be honest with you, without giving away something that I don't want somebody else to steal to, to, to put it bluntly.
Speaker D:Um, so, yeah, it's, yeah, I'm just gonna stop.
Speaker B:Fine.
Speaker B:But I am gonna invite everyone to join in with me one A chorus of Boom.
Speaker B:Right, Penny, I think what we're gonna have to do is we're gonna have to pin in your other two questions.
Speaker B:If there's time or no one's got any other questions, we'll bring you back on.
Speaker B:Is that okay with you?
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Speaker B:EV lines look at this rocking and rolling.
Speaker B:This is like the mega gnar all over again.
Speaker B:It's like in and out, in and out.
Speaker B:And then there's me making everyone set longer by making a big fuss over it.
Speaker B:Kev, what's your question?
Speaker J:Well, it's a bit long winded to bear with me.
Speaker J:This kind of comes from when I was trying to sort of engage with other, other instructors in the local area and I got very little interest.
Speaker J:But listening to conversations that driving instructors have in the test centre, it seems to nearly always be negative and I even heard a couple of comments about Terry and his gang in not such great terms.
Speaker J:But obviously I piped up and rebutted with my own personal experience.
Speaker J:But at the same time as that I'm seeing PDI struggling with poor sponsorship, being given misinformation and I tend to find there's a lot of like in my area there's quite an influx of pink badges and it just seems to be quite poor instructor to instructor etiquette.
Speaker J:You know, literally doing a Bay park while you're in the middle of doing a Bay park and not even acknowledging that you're there doing a Bay Park.
Speaker J:And those that seem to be open to help and suggestions don't seem to want to give up their time probably because of finances.
Speaker J:But I also find that it's because they're being put off by their schools or their trainers.
Speaker J:You know, like don't, don't, don't side with the likes of him because he hangs around Terry and that bearded bloke from down south and they just, just seem to be really negative and I feel quite frustrated and a little bit kind of backed into a corner because I don't.
Speaker J:I seem to be the only one that says positive stuff.
Speaker J:So my question would be, how do you suggest that I can approach ADIs and PDIs about this without it becoming defensive and basically being encouraging that there is more genuine support out there and they're not bad people like you make out they are.
Speaker J:But yeah, that's my usual response.
Speaker J:But it does get quite defensive.
Speaker J:And I don't.
Speaker J:I want to sort of portray that.
Speaker J:It's kind of like I generally sort of behave a lead by example kind of behavior where I'd.
Speaker J:I just said, hey, look, you know, and a PDI is being knocked down by his trainer saying, don't listen to him.
Speaker J:He's talking a load of rubbish.
Speaker J:I just say, look, go and look for yourself.
Speaker J:You know, don't.
Speaker J:I'm not going to say it's great or not.
Speaker J:Well, I'm going to say it's great because I think it's great.
Speaker J:But if somebody else is saying it's not great, why don't you just go and look for yourself?
Speaker J:But I just feel quite insular where I am that, you know, when I've reached out to people, it's like, yeah, let's meet for a coffee or what, that.
Speaker J:And then it just doesn't come to anything.
Speaker J:And I just feel like I'm going round and round in houses trying to do something and it just gets a little bit demoralizing at times.
Speaker B:Dan, can you turn the booze into cheers?
Speaker D:No, probably not.
Speaker D:The answer that's coming.
Speaker D:So I think the answer, Kev, is.
Speaker D:Sorry, Kevin.
Speaker D:Kev.
Speaker D:Kevin.
Speaker D:No offense intended.
Speaker D:I think the answer is you can't.
Speaker D:And I think if you try to use energy, of which it's clear that you have a lot of.
Speaker D:If you try to use that energy to try and convince naysayers, then you're going to waste a lot of it when you could be putting that energy towards the people who will respond positively.
Speaker D:Okay, so from.
Speaker D:I think there's a.
Speaker D:There's a.
Speaker D:There's a general psyche in this country right, where at the moment, if you could put everybody on a spectrum, right, where this is, I'm completely angry and miserable and this is.
Speaker D:I'm over the moon, happy, and my head is kind of the middle ground people are around here, you know, they're kind of just slightly off center of not okay.
Speaker D:And I don't know whether that's an overlap from COVID I don't know whether that is just a general sense.
Speaker D:And people are on here, probably won't agree or may not agree or certainly not feel that their life is that way.
Speaker D:Because that's the reason you're on here, right?
Speaker D:You're on here because you want to participate and because you're positive and you're motivated, and that's what drives people to be on this kind of thing, right?
Speaker D:But for the, I don't know, 12 of us that are on this call, there are 40,000 driving shots but out there who are not right.
Speaker D:And the reason for that is because they want to keep themselves themselves, and they're not really interested.
Speaker D:So I don't want to labor the point.
Speaker D:I just think you're wasting your energy trying to.
Speaker D:Trying to change the mind of naysayers.
Speaker D:A lot of instructors come into this industry, and I'm not saying all of them.
Speaker D:I'm just saying a lot of them come into this industry because they're off the back of a bad experience, right?
Speaker D:They've either lost their job or they've been made redundant or whatever it is.
Speaker D:Nobody comes out of college and goes, do you know what?
Speaker D:I really, really love road safety and I want to be a driving instructor, okay?
Speaker D:Nobody does that.
Speaker D:People go into other jobs and then they fall into driver training because something else hasn't worked out.
Speaker D:And I think that that carries a certain negativity into the job.
Speaker D:So there's a lot of people in the test centers who will end up blaming the DVSA for everything and, you know, blaming this person and that person and being very negative.
Speaker D:And that's just part and parcel of what this industry is.
Speaker D:It's like this sludge at the bottom of the industry.
Speaker D:But what there is is people like you guys on this call who buck that trend and are excited and are optimistic, which is why I use the word optimistic, because I'm not going to bother with those people.
Speaker D:I don't have enough energy to bother with those people.
Speaker D:I'm going to bother with the people who want to learn, who want to reach out and ask questions, who want to improve, right?
Speaker D:So my answer to you is, forget them.
Speaker D:But then if somebody's listening, say, do you know what?
Speaker D:I've got an alternative approach.
Speaker D:How about we go for a coffee and I'll tell you what I think, right?
Speaker D:And that's the way to do it.
Speaker B:That is a chafee, because I agree.
Speaker B:We're going to come to Chris, then Tom, but just before we do, it's the persuasion mountain you know, if you're trying to get someone over the mountain, you've got all the people on this side already there.
Speaker B:You're still at the top of the mountain.
Speaker B:The people coming up the mountain, you don't need to speak to because they're already coming up the mountain.
Speaker B:The people you want to speak to, ones at the bottom of mountain who are being curious, they're not sure whether to come up or not.
Speaker B:They're the ones that you shout to come up and you persuade.
Speaker B:The ones that are miles away from mountain, just ignore those.
Speaker B:They're just over there going, what are they doing, those miserable sods over there?
Speaker B:Now, eventually there'll be a few that get curious and start peeping over.
Speaker B:Then you can speak to them.
Speaker B:So it's a case of working out who's worth your time.
Speaker B:And there'll be people out there that aren't worth your time and that might.
Speaker B:They might not be a bad person.
Speaker B:You know, there might be really good people that just think I'm a knob.
Speaker I:It.
Speaker B:And the, you know, they're right.
Speaker B:That's their opinion.
Speaker B:They're entitled to it.
Speaker B:But there's a lot of them.
Speaker B:But there's.
Speaker B:But you want to talk to the people that are showing curiosity.
Speaker B:The ones that aren't showing curiosity maybe don't give as much attention.
Speaker B:But yes, Chris, Then Tom?
Speaker A:Depends if you want to.
Speaker A:I've spent a lot of energy trying to convert people over the years in.
Speaker A:In lots of different ways, trying to sometimes shout louder, sometimes reason with them, you know, all those different things.
Speaker A:And sometimes it's not worth it, other times it is.
Speaker A:And I have a habit of getting involved in those conversations a lot.
Speaker A:I think the first approach is Plato's approach, which is that you have to understand their position before you could argue your own.
Speaker A:So don't try and convince them otherwise.
Speaker A:Ask them why they think that Terry's a knob.
Speaker A:And I don't know who the bearded people are.
Speaker A:I don't know who the bearded bloke is, so I can't comment.
Speaker A:But it's, you know, engage in that side if you want to have that conversation, understand why they think that, and then don't argue with it.
Speaker A:Use their issues against them.
Speaker A:So see where their problems are and find, you know, provide them a solution that might happen to be on the podcast.
Speaker A:Be specific, because nearly always they're going to be that negative because they're scared that other people are better than them or they're not good enough or something like something of that ilk.
Speaker A:So I Don't want to say, feel sorry for them, because I don't think that's, you know, quite the right approach.
Speaker A:But accept that they're there for a reason.
Speaker A:As Dan said, decide if you want to spend that energy.
Speaker A:It's really tiring fighting people every day.
Speaker A:I do it a lot less than I used to.
Speaker A:I also tried to go in assuming that I'm wrong, which I didn't used to do, and I.
Speaker A:There's people who don't think that's the case now, but I do go into it trying to go, right, maybe they've got a point.
Speaker A:Let's see what their point is.
Speaker A:And I'll happily agree to differ.
Speaker A:I will also always offer my details to them and say, you know, we disagree.
Speaker A:But here, here's this.
Speaker A:If you want to get in touch, they never will phone.
Speaker A:And the ones that don't phone aren't worth your time.
Speaker A:And then the final thing is, start up an ADI walk back near you and then you'll get the good people coming along to that and that will be able to give you a community.
Speaker J:Now, I did try the Adi walk back, but I didn't get any response.
Speaker A:You need try.
Speaker J:I still try on occasions, but no response.
Speaker A:Once you get the one, if you can find that wing person that is willing to turn up each time and, you know, you take it in turns buying each other a cup of coffee or something.
Speaker A:Once you find that one, you'll then find the others that will come and go.
Speaker A:And that is what we've seen, you know, in various different places that it needs that, that, you know, that duo to be there, because otherwise you just end up turning up in the woods each week on your own and you get a reputation.
Speaker A:That's what I found.
Speaker J:The conversation I had about the bearded one that with the gob was.
Speaker J:I thought they were actually talking about me at the time because they said the beard, the gobby bearded one from down south.
Speaker J:And when I went, are you talking about me?
Speaker J:When?
Speaker J:No, the one that stayed down south.
Speaker J:So that kind of narrowed that down to one.
Speaker D:I don't know.
Speaker B:Amazes me that that's how we described the Gobi.
Speaker B:Did we won from south or north?
Speaker B:And we need to bring agreement on that, Chris, just to annoy some people.
Speaker B:Anyway, Tom, you were waving at me.
Speaker C:Yeah, I was just going to reiterate, actually kind of what Chris has said, but he's put it in a far more eloquent way that I was going to put.
Speaker C:I was going to say, kev, if you've got the energy, do it.
Speaker C:Because, you know, you might just change that one person's mind.
Speaker C:And isn't that kind of a good thing?
Speaker C:I tend to do the same because I always have this excess energy that I need to release somewhere.
Speaker C:And arguing with people, I think is quite a good.
Speaker C:No, conversing with people is a good way.
Speaker C:So if you've got the energy, do it.
Speaker C:Because you might just change someone's mind.
Speaker D:Can I just come back on that, Terry?
Speaker D:Because I hate Tom.
Speaker D:He's so ridiculously positive about everything and makes me look like a miserable bastard.
Speaker D:I mean, I probably am.
Speaker D:But just to reiterate, what I was trying to explain to you, Kevin, is my vision of what a test center and what a local environment can be, right?
Speaker D:And that there is a lot of negativity in the old guard.
Speaker D:Okay, but what you're talking about and what we're trying to do is encourage a new generation of driving instructors to come in, recognize that they are the old guard, take what they say with a pinch of salt and all of say to you is be the change that you want to see.
Speaker D:Right?
Speaker D:I know it's cliched, but you know, just go in there and say, you know, this is what I think, guys, I'd love to talk to somebody, you know, talk to you if you want a different perspective.
Speaker D:And like Chris is, it only takes that one.
Speaker D:And then all of a sudden you guys are bobbling along, being all happy and being all positive about things.
Speaker D:And it doesn't take long before some of the peripheral people start going, oh,
Speaker B:do you know what?
Speaker D:I want some of that.
Speaker D:You know, I don't want to listen to this old guard anymore.
Speaker D:I want to, I want to be part of their gang, right?
Speaker D:And then don't go in two.
Speaker D:And then it'd be five and 10.
Speaker D:And before you know it, the old guard, the negative naysayers, everyone will be laughing at them because they're the minority, not the majority.
Speaker D:Right?
Speaker D:So I don't want, I'm not encouraging you to give up in trying to, you know, to spread positivity.
Speaker D:Quite the opposite.
Speaker D:I'm just saying don't waste too much of your energy on people who are just too far gone, right?
Speaker D:There's no point battling with people that are entrenched in the.
Speaker D:It's like having a conversation with my father in law, you know, he'll tell you what he thinks and that's it, right?
Speaker D:There's no open mindedness because they're closed minded and there's no point trying to bang on a steel door.
Speaker D:So just, you know, look for the people that maybe got a bit of a chink in their armor and you want to go, let's have a coffee, go and talk about setting up a walk back, 2, 3, 5, 10 people.
Speaker B:Good luck, Emma.
Speaker B:I feel like this is a bit of your realm almost in being able to manage this stuff.
Speaker B:What wise words have you got?
Speaker H:Yeah, yeah, it is.
Speaker H:And I think we see this.
Speaker H:I'm going to caveat this before I start speaking, actually, because my Internet's just dipped out and my screen is telling me that I'm unstable.
Speaker H:I don't need to hear those words right now.
Speaker H:But, yeah, it is like, this is human relationships and this is what I'm really, really passionate about.
Speaker H:And you, you've got to pick your battles.
Speaker H:You've got to.
Speaker H:You've got to decide what is worth your time, what it's not.
Speaker H:Like, and.
Speaker H:And you've got to run with it and you've got to find your people.
Speaker H:Like, I've spent.
Speaker H:I spent so many years, so many, so many years.
Speaker H:Like, so much wasted time now when I look back, trying to fit into groups that I didn't agree with because I felt that they was the group to be in.
Speaker H:And actually I didn't have any of their ethics, I didn't have any of their beliefs.
Speaker H:I have none of their values.
Speaker H:And it drove me insane.
Speaker H:Like, actually insane.
Speaker H:And it's similar to what some of the guys have already said in that it's difficult sometimes to.
Speaker H:If there's a group of already instilled people, it's difficult if your opinion isn't the same as the majority of those people, because it's sometimes difficult to come in and go, I don't really agree with what you're saying because they've, they've already established this group.
Speaker H:And as humans, when we're not great at going, we, we want to be liked, we want to be part of the group, we want to be seen as the same as the other people.
Speaker H:And it takes a lot for us to stand up and go, actually, no, I'm different to that.
Speaker H:And it's only in recent years, and I am approaching a big birthday this year, that I've actually realized that, you know, it's only in the recent years.
Speaker H:And I think that there's part of that is part of, dare I say it, growing up.
Speaker H:Finally, part of it is just.
Speaker B:She did say she was unstable.
Speaker B:So there we go.
Speaker B:They're dropping like flies at the minute on here.
Speaker B:Yeah, I will Just say that from the other perspective of like, I know I presume it wasn't just single that me, Kevin used me as the example there.
Speaker B:But what I've noticed is that for me, people have stopped doing it publicly online now because I know that I make content out of it.
Speaker B:So, you know, I make T shirts out of it.
Speaker B:So now it's all done in private WhatsApp groups and stuff, which is slightly disappointing because I quite enjoyed it.
Speaker B:But every now and again the odd one creeps through.
Speaker B:But for anyone that does put himself out there, and I didn't realize this at first, I took a lot of stuff personally in the first couple of years when I started doing the podcast.
Speaker B:But you're gonna get it because you're actually putting yourself out there.
Speaker B:And as Emma was touching on then you standing out from the crowd.
Speaker B:I don't want to be, I don't want to stand out from the crowd.
Speaker B:I don't particularly want that.
Speaker B:That's not why I'm doing this.
Speaker B:But you're gonna do that and you're gonna ruffle some feathers and not everyone's gonna like you.
Speaker B:And I just think that the big thing is the opinions matter of the people you care about.
Speaker B:I worry less about those.
Speaker B:And I only really almost what Emma was saying there again, you get to 40 and you start caring less.
Speaker B:I'm going to finish that on a very hopefully quick story because I think it kind of almost sums it up to a degree.
Speaker B:A little while ago, test center bloke comes over to me and I tend to avoid other instructors at test centers often, but he comes over, never met him before, and he just says, my lad's gonna effing fail today.
Speaker B:And I just looked at him puzzled and he went, and every effing checks his mirror.
Speaker B:And he like a full on tirade and every other word was F and and it was like.
Speaker B:And his dad's a bus driver and he's told him F in check his mirrors.
Speaker B:And I've told him I can check his mirrors but he never checks every mirrors.
Speaker B:I've told him he's gonna ask him to fail.
Speaker B:It's like this, what felt like 10 minutes or probably 30 seconds he's going on.
Speaker B:I said I don't know what to do.
Speaker B:And I went, would you like me to give you a suggestion?
Speaker B:He went, yeah.
Speaker B:I went, stop turning my check his mirrors because it's not working.
Speaker B:So when he could try something else and he went in quiet room and he went, well, I don't know what to Effing do.
Speaker B:Do I.
Speaker B:Until I round the ward off.
Speaker B:And I thought, yeah, okay, I get it.
Speaker B:I get it.
Speaker B:Emma, do you want to finish the point or should we.
Speaker B:Should we move on?
Speaker H:I'm.
Speaker H:I'm kind of not sure where.
Speaker H:Where I dicked out, to be honest.
Speaker H:I don't know where I went.
Speaker H:I don't think there was much more to sort of me to sort of get on my soapbox about other than, you know, you're a human meeting another human, and that human is bringing a whole shitload of baggage with them that we don't know about, and they might not even know about themselves, you know, and we can't change people.
Speaker H:We.
Speaker H:We can't.
Speaker H:No matter how much we want to try, and we're doing it for the greater good or what have you.
Speaker H:People will only change when they're ready to change.
Speaker H:And that's just psychology.
Speaker H:Like, there's.
Speaker H:There's no way that us banging on about what we want is going to change anybody else.
Speaker H:But what we can do is change ourselves and really tap into who we are, promote who we are.
Speaker H:And the people who are on a similar wavelength to you or who are your people will naturally gravitate to you.
Speaker B:Anyway, is there anything you want to add on to this?
Speaker E:Not immediately, no.
Speaker B:You know what?
Speaker B:That's the best answer I've ever Go back to talk.
Speaker B:Great.
Speaker B:Kev, does that answer your question?
Speaker J:Yeah.
Speaker J:Thank you very much for everybody's input.
Speaker J:And I see you all at Expo.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:I think the only other thing I'll chip in was if you do ask them why you do think Terry's a knob, you don't have to tell me.
Speaker B:You don't need to feed me that back.
Speaker B:I'm happy just not knowing, just so you're aware.
Speaker B:All right.
Speaker B:Corin, do you have a question?
Speaker B:Give you a second to log yourself in.
Speaker B:If not, the next one up is Stuart Kenworthy.
Speaker B:So if Corin doesn't log on in a second, it's you, Stuart.
Speaker B:And if it's not for Stuart, then I might bring Penny back in for one final question before I wrap up, because we've only been going 90 minutes, so it looks like it might be a no from Coryn.
Speaker F:No, I'm okay.
Speaker B:You enjoyed it, though.
Speaker F:I'm enjoying just listening.
Speaker B:That'll do for me.
Speaker A:I'll take that, thank you.
Speaker B:Okay, so what did I say?
Speaker B:Stuart.
Speaker B:Stuart Kenworthy, you've often follow questions.
Speaker B:Stuart, have you got one for us tonight?
Speaker C:Yeah, I'll ask a question.
Speaker C:If they can hear Me, it's only because I think most of it's been answered already, but it's just.
Speaker C:And I think it has been sort of answered.
Speaker C:But as a PDI, I sometimes find that other ADIs particularly find it so easy to be negative towards the PDIs,
Speaker B:even though they haven't got a clue
Speaker C:what their background is.
Speaker C:They don't know where they've come from, where they.
Speaker C:What they've been teaching for years, but it's always so easy just to be very negative.
Speaker C:Is there.
Speaker C:Has anyone got any views on why they think that could be the case?
Speaker C:But I think that may have already
Speaker B:been sort of answered.
Speaker B:We've had a couple of answers, but I'm going to throw in a very, very quick caveat.
Speaker B:When you introduce yourself as a pdi, Stuart, I am now saying you have to introduce yourself as an awesome pdi because I will give you that badge, because I know you relatively well.
Speaker B:So I will give you that badge, that honor.
Speaker B:That's how you introduce yourself from now on.
Speaker B:Dan, then.
Speaker B:Tom.
Speaker D:I think it's pure and simply just because they see you as a threat and your competition and you're in their area and they want their dives full and you coming in risks.
Speaker D:That simple as that.
Speaker B:There you go, Tom.
Speaker D:You're somehow muted.
Speaker D:Tom.
Speaker B:Yeah, I thought that was my headphones.
Speaker C:I'm going to try not be too positive, Dan, on this one.
Speaker C:So that's better.
Speaker C:Yeah, because they're all rubbish.
Speaker C:Stuart.
Speaker C:That's why I think part of it is that it can be quite lonely and people don't always.
Speaker C:ADIs don't always get that chance like they might do when they're at work in an office to have that little bit of a nag.
Speaker C:So when they do get the opportunity, I think they often kind of offload and it's such a sad environment because there are groups out there that allow the opportunity for ADIs to be part of something.
Speaker C:You know, adjacency, you know, all the stuff that Chris does, Emma does, you know, everybody.
Speaker C:There are lots.
Speaker C:Oh, Terry as well.
Speaker C:There are lots of platforms that allow that, but I think because it's quite insular, they sort of hold onto it and then they get the opportunity, like Dan says, and they see it as a negative thing.
Speaker C:I remember not long after I first started training as an instructor, I saw my previous driving instructor who was delivering an Amazon parcel to my house and he said, you know, what you up to?
Speaker C:I said, I'm training as a driving instructor.
Speaker C:And he said, yeah, I've left because there's too many women in the industry now.
Speaker B:Wow.
Speaker C:I know.
Speaker C:And I was gobsmacked, and I think he was just.
Speaker C:He was feeling so negative.
Speaker C:He was of that kind of old school.
Speaker C:It felt quite.
Speaker C:Lots of people are coming in, taking my job, and this is what humans do, isn't it?
Speaker C:So, you know, be positive with it.
Speaker C:Sorry, Dan.
Speaker C:Be positive with it because you're going to meet some bad ones, but you'll meet some good ones as well as well.
Speaker B:Before you chip in, Chris, I just need to point out that today's episode on the instructor podcast Premium was with Hayley Field talking about women's health.
Speaker B:So, yeah, barely.
Speaker B:Too many women in this trick.
Speaker B:Three having to actually do stuff for you now.
Speaker B:It's a joke, man.
Speaker B:Hey, go on, Chris.
Speaker A:When is International Men's Day, anyway?
Speaker C:Every day.
Speaker A:So I think one of the things we have to remember is that we are in an industry where an instructor is a God in their own car, and it's the cause of so many problems because we've got no one sitting over our shoulder saying, you're talking crap, or, you know, you are not the best person in the car, because do you know what.
Speaker A:In their car, they are in most cases, you know, they know the most.
Speaker A:They've got the most experience and everything about the job.
Speaker A:Um, so because of that, it.
Speaker A:It encourages that belief where if someone else comes along, you instantly assume they're an idiot, because in a lot of cases, it can actually be true.
Speaker A:And you know, you.
Speaker A:Because that's the person you end up speaking to, because everyone else knew to avoid them.
Speaker A:Everyone else went out for a coffee and they left you in the test center with that one person that no one wants to talk to.
Speaker A:But I'm a nice person, and when you're chatting with me, it's all fine.
Speaker A:No.
Speaker A:So I don't hang around test centers anymore for that very reason.
Speaker A:It is.
Speaker A:I think it's.
Speaker A:It's part of the job.
Speaker A:It's part.
Speaker A:There's a problem in the job.
Speaker A:And there's also this filtration system.
Speaker A:We're signing up to a job where the.
Speaker A:We're the only person who's in that environment because pupils aren't real people.
Speaker A:Where.
Speaker A:Where we're.
Speaker A:It's very us on our own and everything else, because there's this.
Speaker A:This weird kind of filtration system that goes on, and all of that creates this perfect storm of a particular type of person.
Speaker A:And I love instructors, but instructors are weird.
Speaker A:And I said this to Dan when he first came into the industry and then he married one.
Speaker G:Right?
Speaker A:And he, he, he.
Speaker A:He's.
Speaker A:He's now.
Speaker A:He's now guilty by association and is.
Speaker A:Is a.
Speaker A:An integral part of the industry.
Speaker A:But we.
Speaker A:I had this conversation with Dan and, and I said at the point, at that point, he thought I was just putting everything down, but then he realized I was right.
Speaker A:It's a weird industry and I love it.
Speaker A:I love it so much.
Speaker A:But it's a certain.
Speaker A:There's so many different people, but there's this certain type of approach that is.
Speaker A:It is encouraged by the environment that we're in and everything else.
Speaker A:And I'm not saying it's okay and I'm not saying we should forgive it, but I think we have to remember that sometimes, you know, you have to kind of take a little bit of a pinch of salt with some of
Speaker B:that where I think you're waiting.
Speaker A:Can I just add something?
Speaker B:Yeah, Sorry.
Speaker C:No, I mean, don't be wrong.
Speaker C:I've found some really, really good instructors who help me out adis, but it just, it's.
Speaker C:It's.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:So I totally agree.
Speaker C:Don't get me wrong.
Speaker C:They're very good.
Speaker C:I've got some really good friends, but I've already got to that stage where I've.
Speaker C:I know who to pick and who to follow.
Speaker H:I think what.
Speaker H:What I was going to, was going to put in there as well is that clearly, Stuart, you're a very proactive pdi.
Speaker H:So.
Speaker H:And you're not just proactive because you're on here tonight, but you're.
Speaker H:You're clearly proactive by talking to adis in the test center or wherever you're coming across them.
Speaker H:And I think that to a lot of ADIs, that actually creates a vulnerability for them because they're not doing anything.
Speaker H:So to have a proactive PDI come and go, I want to learn and I want to get on this.
Speaker H:You know, give me information or.
Speaker H:Can I ask you a question?
Speaker H:For them, it's, it's almost an attack of their own vulnerability and the fact that they're not doing anything.
Speaker H:So I look at it as.
Speaker H:As sort of where Dan talked about in that your competition from like a.
Speaker H:A diary, filling gaps and that type of perspective.
Speaker H:I would look at it in another way in that I literally see this in our group WhatsApp for.
Speaker H:For the local area where I've seen PDIs attacked in that group, and it is attacked in that group by somebody who's doing nothing.
Speaker H:And the.
Speaker H:It's that proactiveness and that Go getter and want.
Speaker H:I want to learn and I want to be good at this job.
Speaker H:I don't just want to pass my test, I want to be good at this and I want to throw myself into this industry.
Speaker H:That is almost the attack on the.
Speaker H:On the.
Speaker H:On them because they're not doing it.
Speaker H:And we.
Speaker H:You'll see that a lot, you know, because there's not that many people that are going out there and doing further development or getting involved in expos or asking questions and wanting to develop.
Speaker H:And I do think it's like a personality attack for them because it's their vulnerability.
Speaker H:And a lot of time when people feel vulnerable, they attack.
Speaker B:Love that.
Speaker B:I think the only other thing I'll chip in, we think about learners when they pass a test.
Speaker B:I think the hardest thing for someone when they pass a test is to maintain that level of driving, because on a lesson you've got the support of the instructor next to you to go, well, I should be doing 20 in this 20s old, should I?
Speaker B:But then when you go out by yourself and you've got people overTaking you in 20 years old, it's a lot harder to maintain that.
Speaker B:And I think it's the same challenge that PDIs face.
Speaker B:And, you know, Stuart, particularly to you, you've got this wonderful enthusiasm and this wonderful approach as Emma addressed to being a PDI when you qualify, always keeping that going.
Speaker B:It's making sure that you don't become one of those negative, downbeat, miserable, getting late little fuckers and just actually keep the same attitude you've got now, is what I would say.
Speaker B:Are you waving, Andy?
Speaker E:Yeah, I was going to jump in.
Speaker B:Excellent.
Speaker E:Basically what I was going to say is we have to just all be more like Tom.
Speaker E:We have to be positive.
Speaker E:But kind of linking to what Chris was saying about how, you know, the driving instructor is in control of what's happening in their car.
Speaker E:So it's all.
Speaker E:It's all good, it's all happy because they're, you know, in.
Speaker E:In terms of charge.
Speaker E:But then they can't control the things outside the car, they can't control test times, they can't control all the drivers.
Speaker E:You can't call and draw instructors so really negative about that because it's not in their control.
Speaker E:Whereas, yeah, if we're all.
Speaker E:If we're more like Tom and positive, then it's using those things to.
Speaker E:To build on and be positive about, rather than being negative about them and mourning about them.
Speaker E:You know, people like to mourn.
Speaker E:People think that other people like to Hear them mourning rather than, you know, people like to hear good things as well.
Speaker E:So let's, let's shout about the good things, let's share positivity.
Speaker H:And I'd interject a little bit on that in the fact that.
Speaker H:And this is what my presentation at the Expo is about this time in that we've weighed that up as like we have.
Speaker D:Oh, let's see.
Speaker E:I just have to go to the Expo.
Speaker H:People.
Speaker H:We need to get, we need to get to neutral.
Speaker H:We need to be in the neutral place and not many people know how to get to that neutral place.
Speaker B:It did quite well.
Speaker B:But we will get that at the Expo.
Speaker B:So it's all good.
Speaker B:Chris, do we need to do a Facebook?
Speaker B:We said we were going to do a Facebook Live to discuss what we were doing at the Expo.
Speaker A:We do need to.
Speaker A:Yes, I was just writing a message to you about that because what came to me as well because we need to find out what we're doing at the Expo.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:All right, so let's do one more question.
Speaker B:We're going to do one final one because Penny came with three.
Speaker B:We've answered one.
Speaker B:We're going to do one last question from Penny.
Speaker B:I know you've got two more lined up so pick one of them wisely
Speaker A:in for a penny.
Speaker H:So I sort of.
Speaker H:I'll combine them.
Speaker D:So it's one question.
Speaker H:So knowing that SCS standards checks are very hard to come by when you want one because they say no when you request them on the back of that and not having audit available at the moment, how would you like to see the audit develop?
Speaker H:Any particular qualifications or experience that should be included rather than just being a grade A?
Speaker B:No curious.
Speaker B:Know what the two questions were?
Speaker B:Andy, we're going to come to you first on this.
Speaker B:How would you like to see audit developed?
Speaker E:I think there should be, instead of there being an order, there should be a mandatory CBD beyond just a part 3.
Speaker E:Everyone has to improve.
Speaker E:That needs to be a way of improving structures.
Speaker E:That needs to be mandatory things to keep improving as opposed to just waiting to potentially get a standard check or not or finding an order instructor to improve you.
Speaker E:Why don't ever just try and improve?
Speaker E:If you think of like an HTV driver that you have to do ongoing training all the time.
Speaker E:Why don't drivers help?
Speaker B:I'm going to ask a follow up question, but before we do.
Speaker B:Chris, stop plugging everything.
Speaker B:I'm just constantly plugging your shit all the time on this episode.
Speaker B:Andy.
Speaker B:Right, what would that CPD look like?
Speaker B:Give me an example of what that might entail.
Speaker E:Something like BrightCode.
Speaker B:Just as I'm on about Chris plugging stuff.
Speaker C:Sorry I missed that.
Speaker C:Andy, what did you say?
Speaker B:Well, even though hire a bike coaching Tom, you should, you should check them
Speaker E:out because your pioneers are changing.
Speaker B:Tom, Tom, plug in whatever you want.
Speaker B:What would you like to see audit become
Speaker C:whatever that becomes.
Speaker C:It needs to be a must and not something that people can choose to do, you know, like or choose not to do.
Speaker C:It should be something that is in place.
Speaker C:If you want to be a driving instructor you, sorry in a driving instructor trainer you need to have done these things.
Speaker C:I have kind of a picture in my mind but again we don't live in a perfect world and I think if you raise the bar too high it will be too difficult for people to go and do.
Speaker C:But there, you know, there should be.
Speaker C:If you're going to be training somebody to be a driving instructor you need to know lots of the information that is currently available about the benefits of coaching and you know, come to bright coaching you can find out a bit of stuff.
Speaker C:Apparently you know, people need to know about client centered learning.
Speaker C:They need to know about other than what some trainers are still doing which is PST based stuff.
Speaker C:You know, just get your briefing book out, give them a briefing for 20 minutes and then you know, tell them to do their mirrors all the time and you'll be fine.
Speaker C:So whatever this picture looks like, it needs to be something that we as an industry all agree on because it doesn't matter whether I think that this is a really good idea.
Speaker C:If the other 42,000 ADIs, 43,000 ADIs don't agree on it, it's going to fall on its backside.
Speaker C:So we'd need to agree as an industry this is what we think would be really good.
Speaker C:Not everybody will agree with but the majority should do and it should be something that we all stick up to, that we all have a responsibility to say yes, this is what a good instructor trainer should look like.
Speaker C:Obviously they'd have a beard but you know, unless they don't want to have a beard.
Speaker B:Founder of My Drive Time Dan Hill.
Speaker B:I am curious if you have any thoughts on this.
Speaker D:I don't to be honest with you.
Speaker D:I'm not qualified to pass comment on, on, on audit per se.
Speaker D:I do, I do think that as an industry and actually as a country I think we're really bad at actually just saying this is the way it's got to be and worry.
Speaker D:We worry too much about who we're going to upset.
Speaker D:So nothing gets done.
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker D:And I, and that, that's frustrating.
Speaker D:I though that somebody, I think and I said this to Stuart actually when we were talking recently about something that, you know, you.
Speaker D:It takes a lot of courage to put forward a new proposal.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker D:It's easy in a test center to go, oh, I think we should do X, Y and Z.
Speaker D:But it's then taking that and actually formulizing it, formalizing it, sorry, into a proposal that you can put your name behind and go out to the industry and say, here's a starter for 10.
Speaker D:We may, it may not be perfect yet.
Speaker D:We may not all agree.
Speaker D:This is what I think it should look like.
Speaker D:And that's where I want the njc.
Speaker D:I want the ADI NJC to and be more.
Speaker D:Be bolder.
Speaker D:Right?
Speaker D:In the way that we go out to the industry and say, look, we can't all rely and just sit behind moaning about the dvsa.
Speaker D:The DVSA have a specific job to do that's been mandated to them by government to manage minimum standards.
Speaker D:If we're going to go out there and we want to improve our industry as a whole so that the minimum standard DVSA is down here, but everybody's up here, then somebody has to put their name behind it.
Speaker D:And I'd love the NJC to do it and say, come on, this is what I think this looks like.
Speaker D:And you know, it's all very well us talking about it here and things, and I completely applaud that.
Speaker D:And it's certainly not a criticism, but at some point somebody has to do that or else nothing's ever going to change.
Speaker D:It's only ever just going to be talk.
Speaker B:I feeling you may have an opinion,
Speaker A:I will start with I totally agree with what Tom said that if I had a magic wand, it would have to be something that you sign up to it or you're not allowed to train people and it would have to have standards inside of it.
Speaker A:However, that's not the world that we live in because we don't have that power.
Speaker A:And we have no way of getting that power because of the way the industry is regulated.
Speaker A:And the DVSA don't have that power.
Speaker A:They don't regulate training, they don't regulate driving schools.
Speaker A:You can do what you like as a driving school.
Speaker A:Look how long it took for Benson's to be brought to justice recently.
Speaker A:Who, you know, after all of those ADIs had suffered so badly through the criminal justice system, DBSA couldn't touch it because they have no power in that.
Speaker A:And we have to start from what is actually achievable.
Speaker A:Smart goals.
Speaker A:Gotta be realistic, gotta be achievable.
Speaker A:We can't go into those things.
Speaker A:We can have aspirations and we can want to get there, but actually we've got to start somewhere else and I'm going to get shot by my business partner.
Speaker A:So sorry, Ian, if you're listening to the podcast, and hopefully we're that far in that there's, you know, people have not listened all the way through, go and check out Rodit R O a d I t.co.uk and you will see what we are proposing, which is a voluntary system that's not the DVSAs, because audit is dead in the water and has never done what it's supposed to do.
Speaker A:And I recognize that in this ideal world, when I've got the magic wand, that I would love everybody to then go, yes, let's all buy into this and let's come up with something that is a consensus of the majority and put that out there.
Speaker A:I've been waiting 16 years since I came into the industry when I was promised that these changes were going to happen.
Speaker A:Various different changes, and they haven't.
Speaker A:The only one we've seen is motorways and driving instructors being able to be on motorways.
Speaker A:And that took double the length of time I've been in the industry.
Speaker A:At least we'd need to check with someone like Peter Harvey to give us an actual figure on that.
Speaker A:But they take that long.
Speaker A:Where the DITC are taking a different view on it, of going, all right, let's put together an idea, an open idea.
Speaker A:We'll listen and we'll look at things, but we'll then see where that goes and see what happens by actually, rather than talking about it first, taking an action, a positive action, it's all positive.
Speaker A:The only thing that we need is for people to have a little bit of trust that we are, you know, not trying to sign people up for something as a commercial exercise, just to, you know, to try and take over the world or something.
Speaker A:It's all about.
Speaker A:We want to improve the standards of the industry.
Speaker A:We want to give someone, people that coming in the pre PDIs and the PDIs that we've been talking about tonight, an opportunity to have a little bit of faith in what, what they're going into.
Speaker A:And then if it then means there is a change or an appetite for change, because that's what government and DVSA need is, they.
Speaker A:They follow, they don't lead.
Speaker A:We lead the people in this room lead.
Speaker A:So let's do that.
Speaker A:All for supporting and working with everything else, but let every other scheme that I've heard people mention, an approach that people have mentioned has been about having to change legislation in some ways or having to have some kind of sign up, sign up from.
Speaker A:It's not going to happen.
Speaker A:We can keep trying and absolutely respect.
Speaker A:And I've done some of it, but not as much as other people, what people from the njc, dia, MSA and others do, giving up time, consulting and talking to DVSA and such.
Speaker A:And we do a lot of that as well.
Speaker A:But we're not looking to be an association.
Speaker A:We're doing it because we've got the opportunity to.
Speaker A:We want to be a voice.
Speaker A:But trying to keep that balance between working with the DVSA and not upsetting them too much is really difficult.
Speaker A:And trying to get that change.
Speaker A:And we saw that when the associations needed to have an opinion on the stuff that DBSA released, I had the privileged position of having an opinion.
Speaker A:I didn't have to worry about whether people liked it or not.
Speaker A:It was up to them whether they liked it or not.
Speaker A:And I love it when they disagree.
Speaker A:It's great.
Speaker A:I love it when they agree.
Speaker A:It's great.
Speaker A:So I know that I'm in a really lucky position, as we mentioned earlier and Laura fully supported, not that many people heard it because, you know, that's the industry we're in and that's what we're trying to change.
Speaker A:So, you know, let's, let's sing, let's get that conversation going by having some kind of almost a threat or a threat of action, because then maybe we'll get somewhere with it rather than the, rather than the talk that is needed.
Speaker A:And that isn't critical of anybody because I've been involved in that and I want there to be changed.
Speaker A:I'm fed up with wanting and waiting, so let's see what happens.
Speaker A:And yeah, sorry, Ian, I was going to be sitting on that one for a couple more weeks while we got a few ducks in line, but I can't miss that moment to be able to say to people that are genuinely interested and supportive, one final thing to Penny, have a chat with your local examiners because they can recommend that you need a standards check and then you can go and prove to them that the examiner's got it wrong and you're actually awesome, which they know anyway, but they might be able to nudge things in that direction.
Speaker A:So you never know what's the website
Speaker B:you don't want people to visit.
Speaker A:R O A D I T RODIT Register of Approved Driving Instructor Trainers and
Speaker B:just for clarity, this podcast, as you well know, has an unusually high retention rate.
Speaker B:So there will still be quite a few people listening now.
Speaker B:And also I found the clip that I'll now use on social media, so that's good.
Speaker B:Emma Audit talk to me
Speaker H:personally.
Speaker H:It's just, it's been a frustration because I applied to go on it just as we went into lockdown.
Speaker H:So I was one of those that have never had the opportunity to, to do that.
Speaker H:I think with, with regards to a sort of similar vein, I think to what everybody's sort of thinking that we.
Speaker H:There isn't any sort of regulation over that and it absolutely needs regulating.
Speaker H:You know, we're literally seeing daily PDIs being let down by trainers that haven't had sufficient training themselves.
Speaker H:So as an industry, we are collectively letting people down and ultimately that isn't gonna raise any standards throughout the whole, the whole system, right down to the learners, all the way up to the trainers, you know, and I get that regulation is difficult.
Speaker H:I get that people won't want to do it, but there has to be.
Speaker H:I, if I look back to my previous life, so before this I was in retail management.
Speaker H:Now, for me to be in retail management and for me to retain my job, to just manage, I, I was the store manager of New look.
Speaker H:So.
Speaker H:But for me to retain my job, I was assessed in running that, that ship once a month and my, my team lead, my, my manager, but above me would literally walk into my store on any given day, on any given time, and I didn't have a clue that they were coming and I was audited on the spot.
Speaker H:So my standards had to stay there the whole time because if I, I couldn't afford to let them slip because I never knew when they was coming.
Speaker H:So.
Speaker H:But there's no regulation whether, whether it's a timed one where we can book in a standards check and we know the day and time we're going to be assessed right down to sort of almost a mystery shopper version of what I've come from with retail.
Speaker H:And I was assessed by my manager in that respect and I was mystery shopped as well.
Speaker H:So the head office would send a mystery shopper into my store, which meant I could not afford to slip on my standards at any point.
Speaker H:And I get that this is very different and it can't be regulated in a, in a, in a similar way, but there's no, I've gone from such a high level of regulation in a job that basically I was regulated to keep sales up for somebody who was not lining my pockets, I was lining theirs to a job where my role is, or I certainly see my role as being really, really important collectively in the country for road safety, yet I'm not regulated.
Speaker H:I don't get it.
Speaker B:Answer your question?
Speaker H:Yes, thank you very much, everyone.
Speaker B:Excellent.
Speaker B:Well, we are going to wrap up there, but we've got Corinne who said she did have a question after all.
Speaker B:So what I'm going to say.
Speaker B:Corym, text me that question.
Speaker B:You can even just text me wherever or Patreon or whatever and I will sort that out for you.
Speaker B:I've got an idea, but big thank you to you guys for joining me.
Speaker B:I'm going to give you a moment because I've got a high retention rate to go and plug your stuff.
Speaker B:So let's start with you, Chris, because I want you to pick one thing to plug.
Speaker A:Pick the one I haven't mentioned.
Speaker A:No, I'll pick the one that's the most benefit to people at the moment because you can find everything else there.
Speaker A:Go to chrisbenstead.co.uk.
Speaker A:b E N S T E D. People keep ending up with the bodybuilder bloke and, you know, you don't want to do that, so.co.uk check it out because I'm putting some really cool stuff on there at the moment.
Speaker A:I just want some feedback, that's all, and hopefully it will help you.
Speaker A:And then you help me by telling me whether you think it's rubbish or not.
Speaker B:Still have that rubbish picture I told you to take down?
Speaker A:Yeah, I think.
Speaker A:No, I don't know, I might have changed it.
Speaker B:Emma, what.
Speaker B:What can you plug?
Speaker B:Where can people find you?
Speaker H:Probably the best place is the driving school website at the moment.
Speaker H:So that's up.
Speaker H:Driving school.co.uk and unlike what people have said about having your name buried in there for, you know, promotion and stuff, it's literally based on the Disney film, but that's where it's come from.
Speaker H:But everything's on there.
Speaker H:You can find all my social media on there and you can find the shop link to any products that I sell.
Speaker B:I'm hill, your turn.
Speaker D:Mydrivetime.co.uk we're the original business management solution in the industry and far more reliable than even Emma's Internet connection.
Speaker D:So, yeah, for me, I know this.
Speaker D:You know, there are always alternative solutions that I would like people to try ours because I think once they do they'll realize why they use my drive
Speaker B:time just to just say them.
Speaker B:Yes you do.
Speaker B:Although judging by what's been said tonight, that might put more people off.
Speaker B:So sorry, Andy McFarlane, take it away.
Speaker E:Still, this might get plugged more than once.
Speaker E:Bootbrightcoaching.net if you're a driving instructor that wants to improve themselves, or if you're a driving instructor in central Scotland, then
Speaker B:Caledonian driver training and Mr. Stenson.
Speaker B:Oh, he's muted again.
Speaker B:So there you go.
Speaker B:That's your plugging opportunity gone.
Speaker C:Sorry, I've been trying not to cough on air so I keep turning my mic off.
Speaker B:What are you plugging?
Speaker C:Oh, brightcoaching.net, obviously, if you want to be better than the rest of the people we've been speaking about this evening, you can also find me at Drive Up Training and at the ADI njc, which hopefully you're all going to be coming to the Expo at the end of this month.
Speaker C:So please come and say hi.
Speaker B:So big thank you to the guys who come along strongly live today.
Speaker B:Big thank you guys for joining me saying all the way to the end.
Speaker B:Thank you to Laura as well, Laura Joyce and Ray Seagrave who were here earlier.
Speaker B:We've got a few flagging faces on now, so maybe the next one I'll start at six and we'll go three hours instead.
Speaker B:Who knows?
Speaker B:But yeah, big thank you for joining me today, guys.
Speaker A:The instructor podcast with Terry Cook talking with leaders in a innovators, experts in game changers about what drives them.
