250: Instructors Have More Influence Than They Think
For the 250th episode of The Instructor Podcast, Terry Cook is joined by Kate Monk, creator of My Learner Driver, a resource designed to improve private practice between learners and parents. Together, they explore how instructors can use their influence to make a real difference beyond test day.
Kate shares the personal stories and local tragedies that inspired her to act, explaining how My Learner Driver helps families build safer driving habits and stronger communication. The conversation goes deeper into the challenges of bridging the gap between driving instructors and the wider road-safety world, why the word crash matters more than accident, and how every instructor can play a part in saving lives.
Episode 250 marks more than just a milestone; it’s a reminder of the influence instructors have, and the small changes that can lead to safer roads for everyone.
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Takeaways:
- The Instructor Podcast has been a go-to resource for driving instructors, providing insights for 250 episodes now.
- In this milestone episode, Terry Cook reflects on the impact of the podcast and the community it has built.
- Kate Monk discusses her innovative platform, My Learner Driver, aiming to enhance the skills of learner drivers and their parents.
- The podcast emphasizes the importance of proactive parental involvement in learner driver education and road safety.
- Terry and Kate stress that driving tests are not the end goal; the real challenge is ensuring new drivers are safe and competent afterward.
- Listeners are encouraged to embrace change in driving instruction and to collaborate with road safety initiatives for a better future.
Transcript
The Instructor Podcast with Terry Cook talking with leaders, innovators, experts and game changers about what drives them.
Speaker A:Welcome to the Instructor Podcast.
Speaker A:This is a show that for 250 episodes has helped you become an even more awesome driving instructor and run a better driving school.
Speaker A:And as always, I am your splendid host, Terry Cook.
Speaker A:I'm delighted to be a are even more delighted that you have chosen to listen because that's right.
Speaker A:For 250 episodes now I have been speaking to leaders, experts, innovators and game changers and that doesn't change today because for quite a while I've obviously known the 250 episode that has been coming up and I've been pondering what to do.
Speaker A:I've had discussions with various people, read all kinds of wonderful, weird suggestions, including a Halloween fancy dressed theme which I was genuinely considering.
Speaker A:But when it came down to it, I felt like for the 250th episode it was right to to do an episode that was very much what the instructor Podcast is about and that is talking to someone about something that I believe in.
Speaker A:So today I am genuinely delighted to be joined by Kate Monk of my Learner driver.
Speaker A:And not only are we talking about her, what quite frankly is an amazing and potential game changing product in my learner driver, but we're also talking about the rider aspects of road safety, including how instructors can and potentially should be more involved and be more proactive.
Speaker A:But just before we get into that, I, I just want to say a big thank you.
Speaker A:You know, there's 250 of these episodes.
Speaker A:Now, whether you've been listening from day one or whether this is your first episode or anywhere in between, I genuinely appreciate you.
Speaker A:It's a lot less fun when no one listens and I've had a blast doing this and I'm looking forward to what comes next.
Speaker A:I have no idea if I'll make another 250, but it's been fun so far and the goal of the instructor podcast has, it's always been twofold.
Speaker A:It's been to inform so for you, the listener, to give you guys ideas and information and inspiration.
Speaker A:But it's also been to promote people and products I believe in.
Speaker A:And again, that's why I've got Kate Monk on today.
Speaker A:I also want to say thank you to you guys for helping this show grow.
Speaker A:So whether you've ever shared the show in, you know, your WhatsApp group, shared it to instructors at driving test waiting rooms, whether you've shared my social media posts or whatever it is, thank you for helping me the show grow because I did not know that this podcast would turn into what it did.
Speaker A:The idea was to start a podcast and it's growing something much bigger.
Speaker A:It's growing into a community, is going into an online membership.
Speaker A:It's grown into what people use as their first and in some cases primary source of cpd, which I'm ridiculously grateful for and ridiculously privileged.
Speaker A:Without you guys supporting me, that wouldn't have happened.
Speaker A:And I've been given some amazing opportunities because of this podcast.
Speaker A:I've been given opportunities speak events like the ADI NJC and Intelligent Instructor Expos and the ADI NJC Scotland event.
Speaker A:I've got the opportunity to work with some amazing people in the road safety sector, the likes of Rebecca Morris and ollie Taylor and Dr. Elizabeth Box and James Luckhurst at Project Edward.
Speaker A:You know, I'm now on the committee of the ADI njc.
Speaker A:I'm a member of the imtd.
Speaker A:All this stuff has come about by launching a podcast four years ago.
Speaker A:So I do just want to throw a little message out there on top of the thank you, which is quite simply, if you sat on something, if you've got an idea, don't be afraid to go for it because you never know where it might take you.
Speaker A:But just before we get into today's episode, I obviously want to point you in the direction of the Instructor Podcast Premium.
Speaker A:Now, I'm not going to tell you what's in there today.
Speaker A:There's some good stuff, but I'm not going to tell you about it.
Speaker A:Instead, I'm going to make an unusual request, something I wouldn't normally say, 250 episodes.
Speaker A:If you've enjoyed any, go sign up to instruct the podcast for a premium for a month.
Speaker A:Go support the show.
Speaker A:It'll cost you £12 for a month.
Speaker A:If you sign up to interactive tier, go and do it.
Speaker A:I would be ridiculously grateful.
Speaker A:You don't have to stay, I'll warn you.
Speaker A:You probably will, because people that come along for a month stay because of the quality that's in there.
Speaker A:But there are 250 of these episodes.
Speaker A:If you've enjoyed any of them, go and sign up to Instructor podcast premium for one month.
Speaker A:That's www.patreon.com the instructor or you can find the links in the show notes.
Speaker A:But either way, thank you for listening and I hope you enjoy this episode.
Speaker A:Let's get stuck into it.
Speaker A:Okay, so we are now joined by the delightful Kate Monk.
Speaker A:How are we doing, Kit?
Speaker B:I'm good, thank you.
Speaker B:Thank you.
Speaker B:So much for having me on.
Speaker A:Well, I'm delighted to have you on, but I'm curious by your response there.
Speaker A:Thank you so much for having me on.
Speaker A:Because the first time I met you was at the Young Driver.
Speaker A:I thought, you know where this is going, don't you?
Speaker B:I do know.
Speaker C:That's it.
Speaker A:I met you was, it was a young Driver focus this year, I believe it was.
Speaker A:And you introduce yourself to me by saying, terry, I'm not coming on your podcast.
Speaker A:Those were the first words you said to me and now you're.
Speaker B:I was trying to hide from you, but I got you in the lunch, in the, the queue for lunch, didn't we?
Speaker A:So what's changed?
Speaker A:What was that initial on not coming on and now you, you're actually quite keen to be on.
Speaker B:Well, wine back six months.
Speaker B:I, I mean I was making my learner driver, I was researching, writing, developing, but I was nowhere near ready, nowhere near ready for a public launch and absolutely nowhere near ready to be put on the spot.
Speaker B:So, yeah, I was at the Young Driver Focus very much to see what's going on and where I can fit within that and what I can take from others to sort of improve what I've done.
Speaker B:And then I saw your face, went, oh God, please don't ask me to come on the podcast.
Speaker B:But no, I am ready now.
Speaker A:You referred to me as a scary one.
Speaker B:I did, yeah.
Speaker B:You're not now.
Speaker B:I know you're a bit better now, but no, I was, I was, I'm in a better, better position now, a better place personally and like confidence wise and being ready, have my moments.
Speaker A:All right, well, as you mentioned it there, we are kind of primarily talking about Milo and a drive today.
Speaker A:And you know, I have seen you on a couple of podcasts, I've seen you at presentations.
Speaker A:You're getting more prominent with this.
Speaker A:It's more prominent on social media, which I'm pleased about.
Speaker A:But there will still be people listen to this that don't know what it is.
Speaker A:So do you want to just start off by telling us like the basics of what is my learner driver?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So in our crux of it, it's an online course aimed at improving the skills that parents and learners have together they can work through the course.
Speaker B:We're looking to get parents to model better, safer driving as well as learners gaining a wider range of skill, working on their hazard prediction, bite sized pieces.
Speaker B:So it's really easy for them to use and we just want to improve private practice overall so that we're giving Those learners really quality time before they pass their test so they're really ready for their test.
Speaker A:Like that phrase of improve private practice.
Speaker A:What do you mean by that?
Speaker B:Private practice?
Speaker B:I mean we're all instructors here and personally I find it infuriating when you have a family, they go out and do their hour or two in the week and they ruin everything that you've done in the lesson and they come back doing and you think well where have you picked that up from?
Speaker B:Because I haven't taught you that and why, why are you doing this?
Speaker B:And then you have to spend an hour fixing all those things before they go back again.
Speaker B:So yeah, improving in that sense that our learners are progressing and actually they're all doing what they should be doing and the parents know what to do.
Speaker B:But also that it's not just driving aimlessly around industrial estates.
Speaker B:Like there's so much more to learning to drive than moving a car and being able to navigate an industrial estate.
Speaker B:So having them actually work on the things that we road safety aspects that we want to do in lessons but don't always have time to, to make sure the parents are covering those things and that we're all on the same page.
Speaker A:We've all got stories of private practice and my favorite one was a few years ago where there was a ladder was teaching 17, 18 year old lad and I think I'd had two weeks off and when I come back he's like Terry, I know what I do roundabouts now.
Speaker A:I'm like okay, cool, tell me.
Speaker A:Because I do everyone in second gear.
Speaker A:I'm like everyone in second gear.
Speaker A:He's like, yeah, says what if I had to stop?
Speaker A:He went, oh, I didn't think of that.
Speaker A:Okay, it's clearly an issue there.
Speaker A:So yeah, what are some of the wrong word, but forgive me, some of the common faults or some of the common issues that you see in private practice.
Speaker B:I think the worst one I had was this young guy, he was only 17 and we'd done a few lessons, he could move a car.
Speaker B:And I think I went away for a few weeks and I came back and he was just racing at everything, racing at all the junctions, late breaking, kind of going around really quickly, getting all flustered and rushed.
Speaker B:When people came up behind him he just like, what went wrong here?
Speaker B:Because that's not what we have been working on.
Speaker B:He said, oh, I've been driving with Dad.
Speaker B:I was like, oh, oh.
Speaker B:And what, what does dad drive like on approach to his junctions and his roundabouts?
Speaker B:He's oh, a bit like this, really, that's why I'm doing it.
Speaker B:I was like, great, great, thanks, thanks so much there.
Speaker B:And the other one is, is the, the anger that parents feel towards their children when they're messing up and the shouting and the name calling and the, the anxiety inducing pain that a learner then gets back into our car.
Speaker B:And I've had one and he was absolutely terrified of being told off that I was gonna tell him off every time he made a mistake.
Speaker B:And he was so worried that it was completely ruining all of his driving.
Speaker B:I mean, I don't, I never tell people off, I don't shout, but I do laugh quite a lot at people.
Speaker B:So it took quite a while to correct that.
Speaker B:But yeah, that was his mum shouting at him all the time.
Speaker B:And if they just knew how to talk to their learners and how they could direct them, navigate them without putting them into those situations where actually they're going to have an argument.
Speaker B:Oh, it just make my life so much easier, wouldn't it?
Speaker A:I think one of the problems that we face as instructors is that, and maybe this is where you come in with my learner driver actually, is that we can work with that learner and, you know, train them up and help them become confident and whatever and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, and they go and pass a test and then they'll drive differently because their dad's in the car or because their friends are in the car, whatever.
Speaker A:Is that something that you're aiming to help balance out as well?
Speaker B:Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker B:I was talking recently to one of the driving psychologists about it, that our positive impact on their driving lasts for about five months after a test is passed.
Speaker B:That's five months of our little voice whispering in their ear of how to do things and then it just switches off and they fall back on their learned behaviors and habits.
Speaker B:And that comes from their families.
Speaker B:So if they've only ever seen their mum and dad driving around, not in the best of fashion, they're just going to fall back on that and copy that.
Speaker B:It's okay.
Speaker B:Mum and dad do it this way.
Speaker B:They've never been caught.
Speaker B:The rules don't really count to them.
Speaker B:Why can't I do it just.
Speaker B:And standards slip quite quickly.
Speaker A:Explain to me how this works and my learner driver, from a learner and a parent's perspective.
Speaker B:So if we take the learner first, Learners come to us as instructors, they want to get a driving licence.
Speaker B:Number one objective, get me a license, get me through that test as fast as physically possible.
Speaker B:As instructors, we know and The DVSA recommends 45 hours of minimum of driving lessons and 22 hours of private practice.
Speaker B:But they don't like to hear that.
Speaker B:They want to push, they want it cheaper.
Speaker B:So it's very much targeted to give them some key skills that will help them on that way with the hazard prediction.
Speaker B:For example, learning to read the road ahead from the passenger side, learning to anticipate whilst in the passenger side and plan from the passenger side before they actually get in the driving seat.
Speaker B:So when they are in the driving seat, we can just merge the skills rather than them having to deal with both of those challenges at the same time from a parent's perspective.
Speaker B:And we're not telling them that they're going to improve their driving because they're all amazing drivers obviously and they don't need any improvement, but because they're teaching these step by step skills to the learners to help the learners get what they need for their tests.
Speaker B:And beyond the test, there's little, those little moments, those little sparkle moments where they go, oh, oh, that's actually a bit easier or.
Speaker B:And they're starting to improve their own driving.
Speaker B:And by modeling that safer driving from an earlier age, the learned behaviors and the learned habits in our learners, they're instilled outside of our lessons.
Speaker B:It doesn't just come from us as instructors.
Speaker B:And if just safe driving is what we all do normally and we all respect the rules normally, then they will just carry that on, except the odd one.
Speaker B:But you know, we can't help everybody.
Speaker B:We'll try.
Speaker A:And going back to what I was kind of mentioning before about that idea of the way parents are the kids in the car or whatever and the kids then drive differently.
Speaker A:Is that something you touch on throughout the course as well, the idea of how to be with your child when they're driving?
Speaker B:Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker B:I've done a whole module on how to talk to them and how to direct them and what words to use and body language and attitude towards them.
Speaker B:And then I've got a whole separate course written for different age groups, so from babies right through to sort of pre 17, making sure that the in car family experience is always positive and it's always constructive and that everybody's respecting what they need to do.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker B:Yes, but it's quite a big process.
Speaker B:It's coming.
Speaker A:Tell me a little bit about the structure.
Speaker A:Is it how much is videos, how much is written, how much is interactive?
Speaker B:Um, so we're about 2/3 of the way, I say we, the grand glories, we, myself and I, are 2/3 of the way through the writing.
Speaker B:At the moment we've got 80 videos on there to use and lessons as well.
Speaker B:So every skill module I've tried to include a video and for the games there will be videos coming as well.
Speaker B:And it should be quite a small like two or three minute video.
Speaker B:There's only a couple that are run into more like eight minutes but that's because there's a lot to explain.
Speaker B:But trying to keep them short, snippy, easy to use, easy to watch and then obviously written content between as well just for those who need that to support it.
Speaker B:But yeah, video is the way forward really to try and get people to just quick attention grabbing two minutes, great, we know what we're doing, move on, go practice then.
Speaker A:How does it work for instructors?
Speaker A:Because you just explained like the parent, parent child dynamic or by instructors.
Speaker B:So we're still working on that.
Speaker B:I wrote this for parents and families.
Speaker B:I never wrote this.
Speaker B:I think when I set out I didn't think it would be well received by instructors and I've been really amazingly surprised.
Speaker B:Like the response has been incredible.
Speaker B:So I am slowly developing the instructor side at the moment.
Speaker B:It's quite basic in that we have the course.
Speaker B:You can set homework from it.
Speaker B:As an instructor you would need to get to know the course.
Speaker B:And we'll create a bit of an instructor support guide over the coming months that is like a step by step.
Speaker B:So learners presenting with problem A, B and C, these are the recommended parts of the course you can prescribe to your learner and their family to go away and practice.
Speaker B:And so we'll have a back and forth form that they can fill out.
Speaker B:Bit like our reflective logs that what went well in private practice, what do they need to focus on so that everybody knows what page they're on and we can create that bigger support bubble getting parents more involved in that learning process too.
Speaker B:So at the moment it's.
Speaker B:It is what it is.
Speaker B:But we've got so many plans for it coming.
Speaker B:Once we have actual money, which we don't have yet and we're going to have a whole self standing app which we'll have like management seats for instructors to be able to take a more leading role in that guidance.
Speaker B:But that costs a lot of money.
Speaker B:We don't have that yet but we'll get there.
Speaker A:I think I need to chip in here because you mentioned money and cost and stuff and well, I do not give a number.
Speaker A:Well unless you wanna.
Speaker A:But I don't give a number.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker B:I don't Think I want to.
Speaker B:It's sickening.
Speaker A:I think.
Speaker A:Well, I think I just wanna make the listeners aware that when you're talking about Costa stuff, you've invested a hell of a lot of finance into this already.
Speaker A:It's not like there's costs there because you don't wanna put anything into it.
Speaker A:You've invested in this heavily, haven't you?
Speaker B:Yeah, immensely.
Speaker B:This has been many years.
Speaker B:I saved for a long time actually to start doing this.
Speaker B:I'm lucky in that I run quite a successful driving school, so I've used the profits from my driving school to fund the rest of it.
Speaker B:I haven't had to dip into the family savings yet.
Speaker B:I managed to get a government startup loan on top of everything.
Speaker B:But then I donate all my time to it for free and have been doing so for the best part of two years now.
Speaker B:So that salary sacrifice, if I. I don't actually like to sit down and calculate how much that is, but it's, it's quite significant now.
Speaker A:Yeah, but look, just coming back to that instructor aspect, I'd imagine, like anything, there's potentially different levels to this.
Speaker A:So even if there's an instructor that's out there listening, thinking, I don't really want to get involved, but I still want to provide it, they can still recommend it to their students, don't they?
Speaker B:Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker B:So I've tried to make it as flexible as possible.
Speaker B:So you can either share it with your students and just send them straight off to go and buy it and work through it themselves.
Speaker B:You can obviously sign up yourself and work through it yourself.
Speaker B:Or due to popular request, we have done a bulk buy option so that you can buy sort of 10 access codes to the course and then you can either give those to your learners or sell them if.
Speaker B:If giving isn't an option and you can make a little bit of profit on that as well.
Speaker A:Just tell me like the costs of what it costs for the learner or parents to buy and what it costs for instructors to buy and provide and that type of stuff.
Speaker B:So everybody gets a week for free just to go in and have a look to make sure it's what they want to sign up to.
Speaker B:And then it's only 5.99amonth for a learner family to sign up to flexible contracts.
Speaker B:They can stay for as long as they want.
Speaker B:And we're estimating about six to nine months is, is.
Speaker B:Should be enough for them to get through it and then for instructors to bulk by.
Speaker B:We're doing sort of a 12 month access and it's £99 for 10, so £9.90 per student.
Speaker B:And then we're.
Speaker B:Because this is very much a.
Speaker B:Let's get this message out there.
Speaker B:We want you to either give it away or if you want to sell it on for up to 29.99 and make £20 per profit per course, please do so.
Speaker B:Like we just want people using it and starting to, to really improve the standards of our roads.
Speaker A:You mentioned the bulk buy there because I'm always curious with this, do you have to buy in bulk as an instructor?
Speaker A:Is the option just to buy one and send it to that individual or.
Speaker B:At the minute it's just in bulk because most of us work with.
Speaker B:I know I do about 30 odd students per year so it just seemed like enough of a number.
Speaker B:Not all of them do private practice but for the ones that do, we can't really afford to do it at £9.90 per person to give away.
Speaker B:That'd be great if we could but when I look at how much money I've got to pay back for this, it's just not going to work.
Speaker B:So yeah, if bulk buy isn't an option, just get them to sign up themselves and start working through it.
Speaker A:Yeah, that's what, that's what I was thinking.
Speaker A:So I think will be the ideal example that I'm part time instructor.
Speaker A:I think at the minute I've only got two students under the age of 19 so they're, you know, most, most my students are older so for me to go and buy that in bulk wouldn't necessarily make sense but I can still get, send the links to the students, I can still send it to reach out to pains which I do anyway and say this is another resource that will help and for the 5.99amonth and they'll have it six months.
Speaker A:So I'm trying to do maths, 30 to 40 quid that they'll spend on it a good investment.
Speaker B:So and I just point out I have, although it's written for parents and families, it isn't for young people specifically.
Speaker B:The skills are very much universal to partners, to friends giving, you know, we get lots of international students whose friends perhaps doing the super supervising of the driving and it is so absolutely suitable for any age group.
Speaker B:We've specifically put it as parents hoping that people all kind of read that as well.
Speaker B:I'm supervising so it doesn't matter that I'm not a parent but because that's where it's going to have the biggest impact.
Speaker B:On the risk reduction, but the actual skills on it are totally relevant to all age groups.
Speaker B:I've worked on this with 67 year old and it was brilliant.
Speaker B:So, yeah, it's not age restrictive at all.
Speaker B:I think.
Speaker A:One other thing I noticed on the website was there's an option for like a discount on insurance.
Speaker B:Oh, yeah.
Speaker A:Is this something you're going to be looking more into going forward, working with insurance companies and the like?
Speaker B:Oh, Terry, we've got so many plans, so many plans with insurance companies.
Speaker B:So this first stage is very much.
Speaker B:They're giving us loads of really good content, really good advice on how to choose your first policies, but ultimately the family contract because we're not having a graduated driving license, which I won't start on today, but that doesn't stop families from making their own.
Speaker B:And we want a really good solid family contract in place to be checked by my learner driver, whether that be me or someone that I'll eventually hire.
Speaker B:Jobs will be available soon for work at home, but for her to have that contract agreed with the parent, the learner, we've checked to say, actually, yeah, you guys have done a really great job of putting a plan together here.
Speaker B:You've completed the course, we can see that you've ticked, you know, you've worked your way through the modules.
Speaker B:You can now take this certificate we're going to give you to these insurance companies and we're just working with the underwriters at the moment.
Speaker B:We've got a little mini research project going together to support all of this so that the insurance companies are then able to treat it like a Pass plus and give us that little bit of discount on not just the new driver policies, we're looking at the parental policies too because they've done improvement on their driving as well.
Speaker B:And I'm not naive to how busy parents are.
Speaker B:I'm a parent, I've got two children.
Speaker B:I know, I know it's tough, I know it's hard and I know that you know these things, road safety and it's just easier to pay an instructor.
Speaker B:So I'm not naive to the fact that we're going to have to put some real financial incentives and pushes behind getting parents really involved in this.
Speaker B:And so the insurance companies are absolutely key.
Speaker B:Once we've got that relationship established, we are looking to create our next stage, next year's project where we, we have a quite a big research project looking at people who've done the course versus people who haven't, who then go on to insurance, are selected Insurance and have a telematics box.
Speaker B:And we then take the data from that telematics box and we can, we can compare as to what's going on between those people who've done the course, those people who haven't.
Speaker B:And there'll be a whole new app developed around that so that we can give live feedback, live comments.
Speaker B:We can feed in more driving support if they're doing things they perhaps shouldn't be doing, but in a really supportive way, aimed at parents as well, so that the messaging goes out to the whole family to say, actually you might need to have a little look at that junction down the road and how they're dealing with that and go over it with them to make sure that they're a little bit safer.
Speaker B:But that's like a massively expensive next year project.
Speaker A:See, all that sounds really exciting, but it kind of gets me thinking, why should I sign up now?
Speaker A:Why should I start using it now if all this is coming in the future?
Speaker A:So here, why should I be using it now?
Speaker B:Because we can't get to the future without using it now, to be honest.
Speaker B:It's.
Speaker B:These are all things we want to develop to right here, right now.
Speaker B:I just saw the stats this morning.
Speaker B: e were killed on our roads in: Speaker B:That's not going to change unless we all start doing something different now.
Speaker B:We can't wait till next year, we can't wait till technology develops.
Speaker B:We have got to do something right now in families, in our homes, we've got to have those conversations.
Speaker B:And if that means that my course isn't quite ready yet, but it's good enough, it's giving that information and people can use it, then we need them to use it, even if it's just the week for free that they sign up to.
Speaker B:We just need to get that information out there.
Speaker B:And I look at the future and it is really exciting and there's so much we can do with it, but we can't get there without you, without everyone taking part and taking it on board and listening and we can't do it without families engaging.
Speaker B:So that's why it has to happen now.
Speaker B:It's not perfect.
Speaker B:I know that I'm not perfect, but it's enough at the minute.
Speaker B:It's good enough for me to shout about and to get excited about and say, come on, we can do something.
Speaker B:We can make some real difference here.
Speaker A:I like that.
Speaker A:And I think the big thing for me there is, it's there for us to use.
Speaker A:It's not let's, at least for me, let's not defer it for a year to see how it changes.
Speaker A:Let's go and try it now and let's put some time into this because as you said, there's still too many people dying on our roads every day.
Speaker D:Hello, my name is Stuart Lochri.
Speaker D:I'm the founder at Bright Coaching.
Speaker D:Driving instruction has changed.
Speaker D:Today's learners need more than just skills and practice and reps to pass a driving test.
Speaker D:They need coaching that addresses the higher levels of the GDE on every single lesson.
Speaker D:That's why we created the Professional Diploma in Coaching and Behavioral Change for Safe Driving.
Speaker D:This accredited qualification, equivalent to a BTEC Professional Award Level 4.
Speaker D:5, gives you the tools and recognition to transform the way you teach.
Speaker D:With Bright Coaching, you can leave the DVSA behind and step into a modern learner focused approach, one that shifts the paradigm of driver education for instructors, for pupils and for parents all across the country.
Speaker D:At Bright Coaching, we are training the next generation of driving instructors.
Speaker D: th of March: Speaker D:Please visit brightcoaching.net to sign up today.
Speaker E:Are you an ADI looking for something different?
Speaker E:Well, at Drive Up Training, we don't offer franchises, we offer supporterships.
Speaker E:And that means no long contracts, no hidden catches, just genuine support, development and community.
Speaker E:Our ADI Development programme is designed to take your career further and as part of the programme you will have the chance to gain additional qualifications such RoSPA and IEM Advanced Driving, your Level 3 awards in both education and training and coaching and mentoring, as well as the Bright Coaching Diploma.
Speaker E:With Drive Up Training, you're not just teaching learners to drive, you're building a professional future backed by expert trainers, ongoing CPD and a team that shares your values.
Speaker E:So if you're ready to join a driving school with a difference, visit driveuptraining.co.uk today.
Speaker E:Where instructors grow and road safety wins.
Speaker A:But I want to just touch back on one thing you've said because I do wonder if this goes over a lot of lot of instructors heads because you mentioned GDL graduated Driving Licensing and I think you said that we're not going to have one though.
Speaker A:I'm going to share my thoughts on that in a second, potentially.
Speaker A:But why aren't we going to have one?
Speaker B:Well, I was only basing it on the fact that they said no because I had all these plans and I was sitting on all these plans thinking if they put one in place I perhaps won't go down this road, I won't make this course.
Speaker B:I'll just let it develop and see what happens, what impact it has.
Speaker B:And the day they said no was the day I sort of put my pen to paper and said, right, here we go, we're off, we're going to be doing this.
Speaker B:Why aren't we going to have one?
Speaker B:There's so many reasons.
Speaker B:It's not perfect.
Speaker B:What's been proposed.
Speaker B:New Zealand.
Speaker B:You were there at the road safety.
Speaker B:Young driver Focus.
Speaker B:It was so interesting hearing from the lady from New Zealand who doesn't rate their graduated driving license.
Speaker B:But that doesn't mean we say we shouldn't have one.
Speaker B:We just need to make one that works for our country and that works for us.
Speaker B:But, yeah, I mean, the blanket answer of no was.
Speaker B:Was what this has all been found based on.
Speaker A:See, this is what I love about what you've done.
Speaker A:I. I am.
Speaker A:I'm going to annoy people.
Speaker A:I'm sorry, people, but I'm genuinely annoyed and frustrated and I'm just a bit pissed off with people that keep telling us what they're going to do but don't do it.
Speaker A:And what you've done is you've done something, you know, you've admitted that long term you're going to improve on it and get it better and great, but you've actually just gone out and done something.
Speaker A:And I think there's so many people that don't.
Speaker A:And I think that when it comes to gdl, obviously you've said it's not going ahead.
Speaker A:When you say there, you're referring to the government.
Speaker A:Keep hearing that.
Speaker A:I keep seeing quite prominent people saying there will be no gdl.
Speaker A:I don't know.
Speaker A:This government's backtracked a lot in the 15 months he's been in charge.
Speaker A:I wouldn't be surprised to see some form of GDL next year.
Speaker B:Yeah, I mean, it'd be amazing if they did.
Speaker B:Yeah, Really.
Speaker A:I think this sits alongside it really well.
Speaker A:I think that road safety strategy that attempt is put in place has now gone by the wayside because there's no gdl.
Speaker A:And that was part of it.
Speaker A:I think it fits really nicely within that.
Speaker A:So I'm keen to know, though, what's the response been like to this since it's gone out?
Speaker B:Absolutely incredible.
Speaker B:Like, I tentatively.
Speaker B:I mean, I'm a mum, I'm a driving instructor, I live in Devon, I am an introvert, I love my own company.
Speaker B:I'm not a social person, I don't like Social media and I, I guess have been quite pessimistic about how it would all go and what people would think and do.
Speaker B:But then at the same time none of this is about me, none of it me matters in this.
Speaker B:So sod it, I'll just do it anyway.
Speaker B:And people have been absolutely incredible.
Speaker B:Like the response was totally unexpected from everyday instructors right through to people really, really high up have, have been like.
Speaker B:It's been really humbling actually the response I've had like people like yourself as well.
Speaker B:I would never have put myself on your 250th special episode as your feature like that.
Speaker B:That is as far from what I set out to achieve for myself as possible.
Speaker B:So yeah, it's been really, really good.
Speaker B:The learners are really enjoying it.
Speaker B:I've actually seen my test pass go through the roof.
Speaker B:My pass rate this year I don't really look at my pass rate cause I don't think it's that accurate.
Speaker B:But I've just been quietly watching it this year and it's, it's been from a practical like in car business.
Speaker B:It's been great.
Speaker B:They've, they've done really, really well and I'm really confident that they're all going to go on to be successful and safe drivers and to have parents, particularly in our area.
Speaker B:We've had some really awful tragedies in the last few years.
Speaker B:To come up to me and say this is great, it's so good you're doing something that's been, that's been really.
Speaker A:Really nice to hear mentioned your learners and the good feedback you've got.
Speaker A:Have you got some specifics?
Speaker A:What, you know, kind of what, what's been said to you about it?
Speaker A:What, what do they like, what do they enjoy?
Speaker B:I mean the ones that I filmed with, I'm not very good at remembering the exact details but they, they've been saying about the confidence that being able to, to know what's coming, to be able to predict what might be around the corner has really helped them with their just general driving.
Speaker B:The confidence to take their friends out and know that they're going to be okay.
Speaker B:They can manage those distractions.
Speaker B:That's been the main thing.
Speaker A:Does that come from the practice of doing with the parents?
Speaker A:Because I think we touched on it before.
Speaker A:Often when they go out of parents they just go for a drive, they drive to school and back.
Speaker A:But what they've done with their parents is transform that into I'm going to practice this.
Speaker A:And does that confidence come from that?
Speaker B:Definitely.
Speaker B:They've been out on their own, so they're in control.
Speaker B:There's no dual control pedal for the parent to step on.
Speaker B:They've had to take that responsibility for the drive and they've been able to do that in a really guided and supported way.
Speaker B:I've been able to advise where to go, which areas to use, what sort of skills to focus on, whether they even need to be driving or not.
Speaker B:Just get them out in the passenger seat and get them out reading the road ahead.
Speaker B:And it's, it's not just confidence for the learners but the parents as well, in that they're actually really happy that they know what they're doing.
Speaker B:They're not stressing out quite as much as they perhaps would do that that learner is going to be sensible.
Speaker A:You mentioned, I think you described it as higher ups, so I think you, you obviously don't really know what to call them.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Got some feedback from other areas.
Speaker A:I'm intrigued as to.
Speaker A:To where and where you're having and you're having that influence or where you're feeling that influence.
Speaker B:Well, I've got to put a big shout out, thank you to people like yourself and to Stuart Lockery and Sue Duncan, who and many, many others who have just opened doors for me to be able to access.
Speaker B:I mean, I would never be able to just walk into some of these meetings and webinars.
Speaker B:Annabelle Priest, for example, in our local fire service, she's just opened so many doors.
Speaker B:And so the conversations and the feedback has been coming as a result of those, those openings, which, yeah, I, I mean, live in my little world down here, I wouldn't normally have access to.
Speaker B:So it's been really great, all the support I've had from everybody.
Speaker A:And it's interesting cause you mentioned before about being an introvert and I'm massively introverted as well.
Speaker A:And a couple of years ago when I decided that I wanted to explore the road safety sector and bridge that gap, as I call it, between us and the road safety sector, I was told by a lot of people on both sides that, yeah, that's not going to work.
Speaker A:It was like, you will be rejected.
Speaker B:I know that feeling.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:You'll be rejected by the road safety sector.
Speaker A:I was embraced by the road safety sector, yeah.
Speaker A:Have you found the same?
Speaker B:I have, yeah.
Speaker B:It's been.
Speaker B:I mean, it is really obviously two very separate worlds.
Speaker B:It's.
Speaker B:It's that, you know, our instructor world is over here on one side and the whole road safety sector over there and there is very little merging going on.
Speaker B:In the middle.
Speaker B:But both sides, if, if anything more, the road safety sector side have just opened their doors wide.
Speaker B:They, they want our involvement.
Speaker B:Instructors, we are the key to getting this messaging to exactly where it needs to be.
Speaker B:We have the front door open to the family home to guide those conversations.
Speaker B:We need to be using it.
Speaker B:Like, why aren't we using it?
Speaker A:Why is that gap there?
Speaker A:Obviously, it's just something I've dug into a lot over the last couple of years.
Speaker A:But from your perspective, why is that gap there?
Speaker B:It won't be a popular answer, I don't think.
Speaker A:I think it might be the same as mine.
Speaker B:You know, why do people come into this industry?
Speaker B:It's good money, it's flexible working.
Speaker B:I say it's not an easy job, but people see it as an easy job.
Speaker B:It's an easy way to get to a higher income without getting a degree.
Speaker B:Once they're in the industry, they're making, you know, really good money.
Speaker B:It becomes a business.
Speaker B:It's a business that you run.
Speaker B:You have costs, business mind.
Speaker B:Everything's about running the business.
Speaker B:The business must succeed.
Speaker B:The business must make money.
Speaker B:And so the questions I've asked of instructors and even really amazing instructors who I, I really rate to say, why, why don't you offer the honest truth as part of your package?
Speaker B:It's like, oh, there's only so much we can do with the budget we got and, oh, you know, we're a business.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:And, yeah, the teenagers want to get through their test.
Speaker B:They just want to get there as quick as possible.
Speaker B:They don't really want to hear that.
Speaker B:So we've got to meet these business needs because that's what the public want.
Speaker B:At which point I'm like, I need to do something else here.
Speaker B:This is driving me mad.
Speaker B:So as much as I appreciate it is a business, we have such a responsibility.
Speaker B:We're taking these kids like I have kids.
Speaker B:They mean more than anything, anything can ever describe.
Speaker B:And we're taking someone else's precious little child at 17, even if they're a bit smelly by that age.
Speaker B:But it's our job to keep them safe for the rest of their lives.
Speaker B:We have to give that information over.
Speaker B:And I don't think as an industry, we see it like that.
Speaker B:We see it the money, and we see it as a business.
Speaker B:And that's where the gap is.
Speaker B:And I think that then comes from other people training and the DVSA standards checks.
Speaker B:Anyway, there's a whole.
Speaker B:There's a whole sort of realm of trouble behind that.
Speaker B:Conversation.
Speaker A:You've just said a sentence there that I think a lot of instructors will disagree with.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:I don't.
Speaker A:For clarity.
Speaker A:And that's.
Speaker A:It's our job to keep them safe for the rest of their lives.
Speaker A:I think there's an awful lot of instructors that don't think that way.
Speaker A:I think that this.
Speaker A:And you, again, as you said before, why do we come into the job?
Speaker A:I didn't come into the job because I wanted to make the road safer.
Speaker A:I came into a job, flexible working hours and be my own boss, you know, that kind of thing.
Speaker A:And.
Speaker A:But I think there's an awful lot of instructors out there.
Speaker A:I can't control what they do after test, and I've got the exact opposite opinion.
Speaker A:It's like I can influence it.
Speaker A:Yeah, they said.
Speaker A:What you've said is keep them safe the rest of their lives.
Speaker A:But I want to share this with you, and I shared this recently on a.
Speaker A:An expert session.
Speaker A:My membership.
Speaker A:I'll be interested in your thoughts on this because you mentioned the honest truth there.
Speaker A:And I think ollie Taylor and Dr.
Speaker A:Box, the best two examples of this.
Speaker A:They'll do anything for our industry.
Speaker A:I ask them on the podcast, they'll come over.
Speaker A:I ask them, you know, ask them to go present in.
Speaker A:In Scotland for Dr. Boxer.
Speaker A:She traveled up, got trained up and did it.
Speaker A:You know, they will do anything for this industry.
Speaker A:And.
Speaker A:And when you ask them what they think are driving your shoulders, they are just full of positives.
Speaker A:I spoke before about Dr.
Speaker A:Box thinking that all instructors are the best coaches in the world, and we know they're not.
Speaker A:But Dr.
Speaker A:Box thinks that there's 40,000 coaches out there coaching people.
Speaker A:And I was thinking about this, and it's why, why, why are these so ingrained in our industry when there's a lot of the road safety sector that don't want anything to do with it?
Speaker A:And I think a lot of it comes down to perception, because you look at the road, sorry, look at the driving instructor world from the outside, whether it's parents, pupils, road safety, whatever.
Speaker A:It's a really negative stereotype.
Speaker A:As soon as you come in and you come into this world, you see all the good people, such as yourself, you see all the good people.
Speaker A:It's like, I want to be part of this.
Speaker A:And I think that as soon as people get over that stereotype and probably works your way around as well, they embrace it.
Speaker A:What are your thoughts on that?
Speaker B:I mean, I work with so many different types of instructors all over the place, and there are some absolutely Incredible instructors who are passionate, who came in, you know, I, I mean, when I came into industry, it wasn't, it wasn't for road safety.
Speaker B:It was because I needed flexible working hours.
Speaker B:I needed to maximize my earning potential within a limited amount of time.
Speaker B:But I very quickly realized there was so much more to it.
Speaker B:But I work with instructors who, they do their best, but they don't, they don't have access to all of this.
Speaker B:They don't know about it all.
Speaker B:And so it's not, you know, we, it's opening people's eyes and signposting them.
Speaker B:And I, it's not all tied up enough, I don't think.
Speaker B:I.
Speaker B:It isn't until you're in here that you realize what it entails.
Speaker B:It needs to be, you know, it needs to be the first thing you think of.
Speaker B:Why the only reason people get good at this job over time is because they're passionate and they care and they're good and, you know, they want to do their best, they want to pride themselves and those who don't will struggle in time.
Speaker B:And that's why we see so many leave.
Speaker B:But that's not pushed in any of the advertising.
Speaker B:Oh, be a driving instructor, flexible hours, that's got to change.
Speaker B:And that's a whole other conversation about, you know, mass marketing to try and get PDIs to join when perhaps the, you know, rose tinted glasses on the adverts where it all looks amazing and it's not, it's a hard job.
Speaker B:It's really hard and you have to be really good to be good at it and care.
Speaker B:So, yeah, I, I'd like to see it more tied up in the initial phases to try and empower and inspire people to come in for the right reasons.
Speaker B:And I can't remember the rest of your question at this point, to be honest, Terry, so I think it's fine.
Speaker A:I think you, you answered a question that was adjacent to mine, so I'll settle for that.
Speaker A:Do you know what, though?
Speaker A:I think that gap is bridging.
Speaker A:I really do think that gap is bridging.
Speaker A:And it's partly down to people like yourself that create these, these, have these ideas, or create these, these in your case, of course, and then go and work with the road safety sector and they get to see what awesome stuff is over here.
Speaker A:And I think that's bridging that gap.
Speaker A:But I do want to come back to my learner driver because I've heard you talk about why you started this.
Speaker A:It's quite a powerful story, I think, but I'm conscious, there'll be people that haven't.
Speaker A:So, you know, why, why did you, what was the catalyst for this?
Speaker B:I know I often think about this because road death itself has never thankfully touched my own doorstep.
Speaker B: back to about, I think it was: Speaker B:She was utterly incredible and her best friend's daughter was killed in North Wales in a really awful accident.
Speaker B:I say accident, it is not an accident, it was a crash.
Speaker B:And she, you know, I've watched the ripples from the outside, the effect it's had on the mum, the effect it's had on our childminder, the childminder's children.
Speaker B:And now watching the Childminder's children turn 17 and how scary it is for them to embrace that.
Speaker B:So I think that's where it sort of started that I was like, actually there's a huge, huge power on us as instructors to influence that and making sure we get it right.
Speaker B:And then more recently the age group, so I call it the cohort of the last two or three years in our local area, we lost one young lady in a collision that was not her fault, she was passenger.
Speaker B:And then about six months later we lost another young man in a single, he was driving, he was the only vehicle involved and there were no passengers but he then died.
Speaker B:So I sort of ventured into this world of dealing with grief in all of my 17 year old students that they'd lost two of their friends relatively recently and now they were learning to drive and the pain of that.
Speaker B:And so we were working, we were progressing.
Speaker B:And then last Christmas, it was literally three days before Christmas and another crash happened at the top of our town and two of the lads died, the driver survived.
Speaker B:The two lads in the back were not wearing their seatbelts.
Speaker B:They'd been recorded on the dual carriageway at 130 mile an hour earlier that evening.
Speaker B:And they were the friends of these people who I was working with who already had lost to.
Speaker B:I'd already started my learner driver by this point and having to take driving lessons, taken these kids, I mean it's right at the entrance to town, we can't not go past it.
Speaker B:But it's on a huge sweeping bend and watching them crawl around at 20 miles an hour on this, this national speed limit road because the trauma of what's happened and you think it's just not, it's just not okay, like this is happening again and again.
Speaker B:What's changed?
Speaker B:You know, we think back to my childminder's friend's daughter and that happened.
Speaker B:What, what's actually improved in all this time?
Speaker B:And why, why are we, why is this still happening?
Speaker B:Why has nothing changed?
Speaker B:And it's, it's frustrating.
Speaker B:So I, I really sort of pushed on and powered on because it's not fair.
Speaker B:You know, we're sending these 17, 18 year olds out onto the road and they're not ready.
Speaker B:We know they're not ready.
Speaker B:We know that they shouldn't necessarily be taking a test, but we're pushed for that fast path.
Speaker B:We're pushed for cheap.
Speaker B:You know, we live in an economy where money is tight and there's, there's no getting away from that.
Speaker B:But the cost of that is that the kids aren't 100% ready.
Speaker B:They're not able to deal with everything.
Speaker B:And actually I know I do my best as an instructor and I'd like to think that most instructors will be putting their absolute all into getting them ready.
Speaker B:But whose actual responsibility is it to make sure that that child is ready?
Speaker B:And I say child, I know they'll hate me for saying that, but at 17, they're still so little that, you know, if the parents knew what they needed to know to be able to put that in place at home, to make sure they could identify what good looks like, what safe looks like, how to instill that good attitude, then maybe we won't be in that position where I have to face my son's school teacher whose stepson was one of the people who was killed last year.
Speaker B:And it's like a shock every morning and it must be for her seeing me as well, doing what I do.
Speaker B:It's hard and we're facing it every day and just the ripple effects are just awful.
Speaker B:Even though it's not my tragedy, it's, it's just one of those things you can't bear thinking about, isn't it?
Speaker B:When you, you think of your own children and I guess I'm being slightly selfish, minor nine and almost to be seven and they aren't driving yet, obviously, but when they do start driving, wouldn't it be great to be in a world where actually I can trust that they know what they're doing, that the friends know what they're doing, and that we're all as a society gonna put some real effort into keeping them safe?
Speaker B:Do we not owe that to them?
Speaker B:I think we do.
Speaker A:Almost just said there, that one.
Speaker A:I'll Touch back on.
Speaker A:And I think that last bit there is.
Speaker A:We're putting the effort into keeping them safe.
Speaker A:I remember when I was 17, 18, 19, you know, that age, to be fair, I was never bad with my driving, but I took risks I shouldn't have taken in life.
Speaker A:You know, the brain isn't developed properly.
Speaker A:25, your brain sort of finishes developing properly, you know.
Speaker A:And I think you mentioned about being child at that age.
Speaker A:I think you're still a child up until about that age.
Speaker A:I didn't start making start decisions.
Speaker A:I didn't try that again.
Speaker A:I didn't start making smart decisions until I turned 43.
Speaker A:And that was last week.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:So I think you're 100% right to call or to refer someone as a child at that age.
Speaker A:I really believe that, you know, Emma Honoland Norwich Nammer as her first issue first was you don't want to be burying people's babies.
Speaker A:And whenever she sprays it that way, that's always somewhere that strikes me.
Speaker A:But I want to ask you this about your reason and it applies to me as well.
Speaker A:I'll expand on that.
Speaker A:Is this part of the problem?
Speaker A:Is part of the problem, like you've said?
Speaker A:All right.
Speaker A:It's not affected your home necessarily, but it took something to affect you before we started making change.
Speaker A:And there's so many people that I speak to that have lost loved ones in crashes.
Speaker A:You're right to call it a crash, by the way, not an accident.
Speaker A:But they've lost loved ones in crashes and then they campaign and it's the same for me.
Speaker A:The thing that really, sorry for the pun that got me in gear was when I spoke to Shrine Hobblestone and I spoke about Caitlin's campaign, which was her daughter that died.
Speaker A:It took that to impact me, to really motivate me.
Speaker A:It is that part of the problem that it often takes something to happen to us and affect us before we actually make change.
Speaker A:And I'm not just talking about you and I, I'm talking about, you know, actual drivers as well.
Speaker B:Yeah, I, I think in life, until you feel that pain, you, you don't realize what it is.
Speaker B:I know for me personally it didn't because as soon as I qualified, I was straight onto Wally Taylor.
Speaker B:I was one of his first sign ups.
Speaker B:The honest truth back in he came to Barnstable and did a big thing, big presentation to us and just loved it.
Speaker B:And it was that that really swayed me going back.
Speaker B:I mean, it was old pts when I qualified so long, long time ago.
Speaker B:But for other Instructors and families.
Speaker B:Yeah, the whole bias of it's not going to happen to me, it's not going to happen to my learners, it doesn't happen in the world that I live in.
Speaker B:You know, everything's always been fine, there's no reason to worry.
Speaker B:I think that's why we don't embrace it, because it is such a painful thing to think about that it's just easier to not think about it, to not embrace it, to not engage with.
Speaker B:Does take tragedy to get people really.
Speaker B:I mean, certainly the change in our town in the attitude of the young drivers coming through my books and their parents, there has been a substantial shift in attitude and it's taken those crashes to do that.
Speaker B:But also if we don't harness that now while it's there and it's fresh, you know, in four or five years time, it'll all be forgotten and we'll be back to square one and we'll be doing it all over again.
Speaker D:Hello, my name is Stuart Lochrie.
Speaker D:I'm the founder at Bright Coaching.
Speaker D:Driving instruction has changed.
Speaker D:Today's learners need more than just skills and practice and reps to pass a driving test.
Speaker D:They need coaching that addresses the higher levels of the GDE on every single lesson.
Speaker D:That's why we created the Professional Diploma in Coaching and Behavioural Change for Safe Driving.
Speaker D:This accredited qualification, equivalent to a BTech Professional Award Level 4.
Speaker D:5, gives you the tools and recognition to transform the way you teach.
Speaker D:With Bright Coaching, you can leave the DVSA behind and step into a modern learner focused approach.
Speaker D:One that shifts the paradigm of driver education for instructors, for pupils and for parents all across the country.
Speaker D:At Bright Coaching, we are training the next generation of driving instructors.
Speaker D: th of March: Speaker D:Please visit brightcoaching.net to sign up today.
Speaker C:Are you a PDI ready to start your journey to becoming a driving instructor?
Speaker C:Then it's time to drive up your future with Drive Up Training.
Speaker C:At Drive Up Training, we believe the journey to qualifying should be as empowering as the career that follows.
Speaker C:We don't just teach you the basics or teach you to pass a test.
Speaker C:Using coaching techniques, we provide you the skills to inspire, lead and build safe, confident drivers for life.
Speaker C:Our mission is to create forward thinking, safe drivers so that our roads are much safer.
Speaker C:To achieve this, we educate and develop road safety specialists who know how to coach real world driving skills that saves lives and how to transfer those skills to learners.
Speaker C:Our expert trainers are passionate professionals who care about more than just qualifications.
Speaker C:They care about people.
Speaker C:With road safety at the core of everything we do, we shape the instructors who shape the next generation of drivers.
Speaker C:Honesty, professionalism and compassion are the values that drive us.
Speaker C:Because you're not just learning to instruct your learning to make a difference.
Speaker C:So if you're serious about starting your instructor journey the right way, start it with drive up training.
Speaker C: -: Speaker A:Yeah, again, me saying that that's not a criticism because I think that we need that spark sometimes, you know, but what can we do as instructors then?
Speaker A:I mean obviously you brought out this course which will obviously play a part, but as instructors, what can we do to get people buying into this?
Speaker A:And not necessarily just learners, but the parents and public as well.
Speaker B:We need to get parents involved in the whole process so that they're more aware of how awful their new drivers are.
Speaker B:Like they live in this cushy world where their kids know everything and obviously we just need to make them realize that no, they aren't perfect, they don't know everything.
Speaker B:They are making mistakes.
Speaker B:We want them.
Speaker B:Instructors can invite parents to come out in the back of cars.
Speaker B:I actually love taking parents out in my car and I offer a half hour session.
Speaker B:They can come and sit in the front and I'll give them a driving lesson with the kid in the back.
Speaker B:But to really, you know, give that guidance that they need, the private practice is so important.
Speaker B:The DVSA say 22 hours.
Speaker B:It's actually so much more than 22 hours of private practice that they need.
Speaker B:We're looking at, you know, nearer 100.
Speaker B:But to give that really structured private practice so they know where to go, where's a safe road to go and where to avoid.
Speaker B:What skills do we need to work on that week so that you a can keep progressing so your learners are getting through quick, not quicker because that's not the right way to look at it, but that they're progressing forward and making good progress and they're more reliable to pass a test and they're actually then better and they know what to do do after, but that the parents have their expectations managed in that they don't want to push whoever it is child into a quick test because they want that pass.
Speaker B:It might be they don't want to pay very much money because they haven't got the funding to afford all these lessons.
Speaker B:But if an instructor can say, actually there's so much you could do at home to cover that gap, to make sure that, that your learner is doing what they need to do without just pushing into a quick test pass.
Speaker B:We've got to stop thinking of the test pass as the end game.
Speaker B:That's an instructor job.
Speaker B:Like stop talking to parents about the test pass.
Speaker B:You give them the guidance they need to manage that beyond the test.
Speaker B:The test pass is something to be celebrated.
Speaker B:Absolutely.
Speaker B:But that's when the danger really, really, really kicks in.
Speaker B:That's the bit we all need to be really nervous about those first six to 12 months.
Speaker B:And the parents need to know that they're a relatively oblivious to that risk at the moment or not wanting to consider it.
Speaker A:It's interesting.
Speaker A:I think I've got gonna say disagree.
Speaker A:I don't think I disagree.
Speaker A:I think I've got a slightly different take to where you started off from that you spoke about how bad the new drivers are and I think I've got a slightly different take in that.
Speaker A:I think you have to be as an individual supremely confident to pass your test and then continue driving the way you've driven in your driving lessons.
Speaker A:Because it's so difficult.
Speaker A:Let me rephrase that.
Speaker A:On a driving lesson, when you've got an instructor sat next to you or your parents sat next to you and you don't sneak through that light or you don't go in that keep clear box or you, he puts a 20 in that 20 zone because you've got that person supporting you and you know that if something goes wrong, they can be like, no, you're correct, you're right to do this.
Speaker A:That, that yellow box is there for a reason.
Speaker A:Don't go with it, you know, but as soon as that person, that support is away from you and you're out by yourself and you've got everyone else driving the way everyone else drives.
Speaker A:I actually think it's a, the, the, the, the, the problem is more on those drivers, the drivers that are driving and those, those new ones fallen into that trap.
Speaker A:And I think our challenges, and I don't know whether or ever it'll do it or not, but I think our challenge is getting the confidence and the knowledge and the self belief in the current crop of new drivers, but also educating the existing drivers that you are just a bit shit, you need to get better.
Speaker B:Yeah, definitely.
Speaker B:I think that's something we all need to be working on to.
Speaker B:People just need to take their driving more Seriously, because all behavior is copied by our young people, whether it be a new driver or someone who's going to drive in five or 10 years time.
Speaker B:They copy what they see and it is the parents.
Speaker B:What the parents are doing in car will be copied, but they're copying what's outside the car as well.
Speaker B:And as a society we all have a responsibility to show good driving and demonstrate good driving to everybody because everybody's children will be copying that.
Speaker B:So yes, I agree, but how we tackle that one, Terry, is a problem for another day to do some serious.
Speaker A:Thinking on episode 251i.
Speaker A:But yeah, it is difficult to get that across.
Speaker A:But I think one of the things that I'm always a bit disappointed by and we'll talk about in our industry, because we're in our industry, but I think it applies everywhere is that attitude of, well, we can't fix it, so why should we try?
Speaker A:And I've had that again, going back to working with the road safety sector, as much as I've been really embraced, there have been people that have shut me down at first because I'm coming from the driving instructor world and I've either had to win them over and I do hold a grudge and I do remember, just to clarify, but I've noticed, yeah, so yeah, I've had people that have rejected me or whatever and I've had people from our world that have said, why do you keep trying?
Speaker A:And it's like, because I'm not giving up.
Speaker A:Because someone says no, but there's so many people that do.
Speaker A:And it's like, why should I bother posting this on social media?
Speaker A:Because no one will like it.
Speaker A:You know, why should I put this in my lessons?
Speaker A:Because some of my students won't want to do the honest truth.
Speaker A:Have you encountered that?
Speaker A:And if so, how have you overcome that?
Speaker B:Yes and no.
Speaker B:I definitely haven't put myself out there in enough places to encounter masses of negativity from my own desire to hide in Devon in a nice little quiet corner.
Speaker B:I did a lot of testing the water before I did anything massive and there was a lot of mixed reaction then some people thought it was absolutely incredible.
Speaker B:And then others were like, what are you doing?
Speaker B:Like, why would you put yourself through that?
Speaker B:But I am a strong believer of if you have the capacity to make change and to help and you are able to do that and you're willing to do that, then you should.
Speaker B:Like not everybody can do that, but if you can, you should.
Speaker B:So I've gone with that approach, that and I farmed for a long time.
Speaker B:And if someone else, you know, if, If a, if a.
Speaker B:If one of the animals needs feeding, watering, there's no one else who's going to do it, you've got to get off your ass and do it yourself.
Speaker B:Even if it's annoyingly inconvenient and bad timing and it's raining and all of the awful things that happen in life, you still got to get up and just go and do it.
Speaker B:So that is the approach I've taken.
Speaker B:Sod everybody.
Speaker B:I'm going to try anyway, and I'm willing to take that risk.
Speaker A:I don't think it's a risk, but I'm also a big believer that you can be the instructor that you could have that conversation about drink driving with every one of your students.
Speaker A:And there might be one of them that now doesn't drink drive because of you, or, you know, puts their phone on Do Not Disturb when they're driving rather than, you know, in a holder and starts playing with it.
Speaker A:You know, you could be the person that shares one road safety post every week, and that makes someone at Christmas go, yeah, do you know what?
Speaker A:I'll leave my khakis at home, you know, and you'll never know that.
Speaker A:And I think that's the hard thing.
Speaker A:You hear the negative side.
Speaker A:But I think going out, I think you can make that difference, can't you?
Speaker B:You say you never know that.
Speaker B:So I can't give out names or anything at the moment because we're still trying to make it.
Speaker B:It's too raw in our area.
Speaker B:But in that car that crashed last year, there was due to be a third passenger, and that was someone that I'd given the full, honest truth to.
Speaker B:And they made a decision that night to go a different way home.
Speaker B:And they were not involved in that crack.
Speaker B:So it does work.
Speaker B:Like, I know it works.
Speaker B:They've.
Speaker B:Their family have been protected because of the messaging that the Honest Truth has sent out that we've given in lessons.
Speaker B:And, you know, although it's tragic what's happened, it could have been even worse.
Speaker B:So you never know these things.
Speaker B:I think there are, There are some occasions where you can say, actually we did a really good thing there.
Speaker B:Like that really made a difference.
Speaker B:Unfortunately, the.
Speaker B:The young man in question, there's so much trauma has gone on, not just with what's happened, but in his own life as well, that it's not the right time to pursue it right this moment.
Speaker B:But only Taylor and I are on it for another day.
Speaker B:That's Another future project that's the perfect example.
Speaker A:And you're right, you know, I probably phrase it badly saying you'll never know, but you'll often never know.
Speaker A:No, you're 100% right, that, that this is a perfect example of you or, you know, and of, you know, whoever else is making an impact.
Speaker A:And there will be some people that, that come in your lessons and they'll have the honest truth and it won't work because nothing's perfect, but there will be.
Speaker A:Look at the difference that's made, you know.
Speaker A:Did he say that was your student?
Speaker B:Yeah, said with other instructors as well.
Speaker B:But I know what I, I know what I told him and I knew he being very rural is at high risk.
Speaker A:So you have literally saved some or prevented a death.
Speaker B:Yeah, and I think we, you know, that that is one of the reasons as well why if you can, you should.
Speaker B:Even if it doesn't lead to any, you know, even if my learner driver, you know, for whatever reason, doesn't work, at least I tried.
Speaker A:Do you know what?
Speaker A:I would go so far to say it has worked because there are people using it.
Speaker B:Yeah, there are.
Speaker A:It depends what you define success in it.
Speaker A:In fact, you know what, let me ask you that question.
Speaker A:What is success for you?
Speaker A:When it comes to my learner driver?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:To have people using it, I want it to be a normal part of the everyday learning routine that you go out with your parents and you use.
Speaker B:Would be amazing for insurance companies to be using it as part of their policies that they have to, you know, complete this course as part of your commitment to road safety and better driving to get your insurance policy.
Speaker B:I want instructors to be comfortable with using it because I think a lot of people worry that it's taking away from their job, but it really isn't.
Speaker B:It's just about getting the right messaging across and improving skills.
Speaker B:So, yeah, people using it en masse is going to be amazing on another level.
Speaker B:Just like paying myself the money back would be, would be great, but having the success from it, that would allow me to then write the next.
Speaker B:I think I'm on four, five courses now I've got planned, but having the collab on that, you know, I've got so many people who are interested in coming and working with me and taking other people's ideas as well that perhaps wouldn't be able to put those things into action, to be able to make something really, really special and having that platform that we can say, you know what, you've got a fabulous idea.
Speaker B:I can Help you make that actually look like something and let's make it happen and then it be used.
Speaker B:So, yeah, success for me, I don't like to do things by half, so it is quite big and I'm a bit hard on myself in that sense.
Speaker B:But you know, if you're going to do it, you.
Speaker B:If I wasn't going to do it properly, I wouldn't have started.
Speaker B:Put it that way.
Speaker A:Do we run the risk of isolating, neglecting potentially people that don't have access.
Speaker B:To private practice with this particular version of the course?
Speaker B:Yes, but I have a whole separate course specifically for how people who don't have their own vehicles or families who can give them the support they need, particularly for social care, children in care who need the extra support.
Speaker B:Yeah, there's a whole nother course coming for that.
Speaker B:Lots of it.
Speaker B:Riding around on the front of double decker buses.
Speaker B:Like there's so much you could do from the upstairs of a double decker bus.
Speaker B:So, yeah, it's just thinking outside the box.
Speaker B:It will definitely be happening.
Speaker B:I don't know when because we just need to sell a few other courses to pay for the funding so I can actually sit down and do it.
Speaker A:Are we, are you going to start a new thing where 15 and 16 year olds are literally physically fighting over who gets to sit at the front of the bus?
Speaker B:Absolutely, yeah.
Speaker B:And actually I was just, I was talking to Kev Lyons yesterday about having a whole bus course, like getting them involved in all like hire a, hire a coach and film bus safety and road walking to school safety and all sorts of things.
Speaker B:Yeah, we've got loads of plans, loads and loads and loads.
Speaker B:So anybody with great ideas just let me know because I'm hoping to be able to make things happen.
Speaker A:I also want to ask you this because I reckon there's a lot of instructors that are pondering this when they're listening.
Speaker A:Why are you trying to do instructors out of work?
Speaker B:Yeah, I get asked that a lot.
Speaker B:I'm not.
Speaker B:So I've put the seven day free trial on the course so everyone can go and have a look to make sure I'm really not like before they buy into it.
Speaker B:At no point in the course am I teaching anybody how to deal with a junction like our traditional instructor sense.
Speaker B:How to reverse park, how to maneuver, how to move off, how to pass a test.
Speaker B:There's absolutely none of that.
Speaker B:And throughout the whole course I have reiterated you must use your driving instructor.
Speaker B:Like there is no one better to guide you than your driving instructor.
Speaker B:What I am Doing is accepting, and I think we should all accept that.
Speaker B:Families are unlimited incomes.
Speaker B:They're going to private practice whether we want them to or not, and we do want them to, but they're going to try and cut the costs in any way they can, whether or not there's a course like My Learner Driver.
Speaker B:And if they're going to go to test with minimal lessons because they can't afford all the lessons, wouldn't it be great to have something in place that can at least get that vital road safety messaging across to them so they can still use that and stay safe?
Speaker B:So, yeah, I'm absolutely not here to take anyone's business away very much, just to compliment it and try and catch the people who fall through the cracks.
Speaker A:Is there anything else you want to touch on today?
Speaker B:Well, I mean, there's loads, isn't there, really?
Speaker B:My learner driver, it's a project, a passion project, and I really.
Speaker B:I want people to really think about what impact they have on their learners.
Speaker B:And actually what we've been doing for the last 10, 20 years, it's not all working.
Speaker B:Like, we're not in a better position with the road death.
Speaker B:We're not in a better place with all the tragedies that happen.
Speaker B:And so we have got to embrace some change.
Speaker B:And we've all got a responsibility as professionals to.
Speaker B:To do that.
Speaker B:And I hope that you will find my learner driver helpful as part of that change.
Speaker B:If you're not signed up to the honest truth, you need to be, because it works.
Speaker B:We want that messaging to go out to everybody, and it's not right for us to choose who it goes to.
Speaker B:It's gotta go to everybody.
Speaker B:And if we can all work together, I think that's the key thing.
Speaker B:We got to work together.
Speaker B:Not just instructors, but people throughout the road safety industry, people who we would never perhaps think about working with.
Speaker B:I'd never even heard of driving psychology before I started this whole project, but if we can all put our heads together, we can make change happen.
Speaker A:Like it.
Speaker A:I agree.
Speaker A:I think that one of the things I talk about a lot is how we don't all have to do my learner driver project.
Speaker A:We don't.
Speaker A:I'll have to do an instructor podcast.
Speaker A:You know, there's.
Speaker A:There's little things we can do, whether it's, you know, sending learners to my learner driver or using the honest truth or even free stuff, just like posting on social media.
Speaker A:I always think of, imagine if 40,000 instructors posted something about road safety every.
Speaker B:Week that Just became a normal part of the everyday conversation.
Speaker B:Yeah, it'd be amazing.
Speaker A:I'm also.
Speaker A:I'm not perfect at this yet.
Speaker A:I'll hold my hands up.
Speaker A:But I'm also trying to be accepting, understanding the fact that we're all on different pages of different chapters or different books.
Speaker A:You know, I spoke earlier about coming into this industry, and I think you did as well not come in to make the road safer.
Speaker A:We come in because.
Speaker A:Or I come in because personal circumstances and this was convenient for me.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:You then get swept up by it, and then my mindset shifts and I start doing things differently in this way.
Speaker A:It takes some people longer than others, and some people have been burnt before, and some people are more skeptical, and rightly so in some cases.
Speaker A:So I think that it's also important that we're understanding to those people.
Speaker A:But, you know, we're putting people on the road.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:We have a responsibility to at least try and keep them safe for the.
Speaker A:Rest of their lives.
Speaker A:Which is what we said earlier.
Speaker B:Absolutely.
Speaker A:The one other thing I wanted to just touch on, because I kind of glossed over it earlier, and I think it's worth mentioning, and I think I did speak with Rebecca Morris about that on an episode before, but I'm gonna touch on it again.
Speaker A:You said someone had had an accident, and then you rephrase it to crash.
Speaker B:That's my brain fog.
Speaker B:But it should always be crash and collision.
Speaker A:Why?
Speaker A:Why?
Speaker A:People were listening.
Speaker A:They'll go, well, it's an accident.
Speaker A:You know why?
Speaker B:Because an accident is acceptable.
Speaker B:An accident's something that happens every day.
Speaker B:We fall over, we scrape our knees.
Speaker B:The kids, you know, walk into glass doors and bounce.
Speaker B:And these things are an acceptable part of our everyday lives.
Speaker B:A crash, a collision.
Speaker B:There's a blame somewhere within that.
Speaker B:Somebody is responsible for that.
Speaker B:Something's gone wrong.
Speaker B:And so a crash, a collision is much.
Speaker B:It's a much better way.
Speaker B:A much more.
Speaker B:Rather than just being blase about, oh, it was an accident.
Speaker B:Oh, I didn't mean it.
Speaker B:No, it's a crash and someone died.
Speaker B:That's not an accident.
Speaker B:And that's.
Speaker B:It's really important.
Speaker B:And my own brain mixes it up regularly.
Speaker B:So that's why I like writing, because I can correct as I go.
Speaker B:But we do have to be careful how we talk about it, especially with families as well, because we don't.
Speaker B:If we say accidents to parents, they're like, oh, it's okay.
Speaker B:He won't have an accident, or, she won't have an accident.
Speaker B:It'll be fine.
Speaker B:But if we, you know, use the stats and the words collision, they might listen that little bit harder, might take you a bit more seriously.
Speaker A:I always think of it in two ways.
Speaker A:I think of it, we don't know if it's an accident.
Speaker A:It possibly could be, but we don't know that yet.
Speaker A:We know it was a crash.
Speaker A:100% crash doesn't mean blame.
Speaker A:Crash means there was a crash, but we're scared to use that word.
Speaker A:And we use the word accident almost to avoid giving blame.
Speaker A:But we don't know if it was an accident, but we know it was a crash.
Speaker A:And I also think of the, the perspective of the family who's had someone die in a car crash and then we trivialize it by saying accident.
Speaker A:I mean, that's ridiculously disrespectful.
Speaker A:If I'm.
Speaker B:It is, yeah.
Speaker A:And it's a hard one to get out of.
Speaker A:You know, it's like someone changes sex and you're going to start calling them by a different name.
Speaker A:You're going to call, say the wrong thing sometimes because you're human.
Speaker A:But I think it's worth considering.
Speaker B:Yeah, definitely.
Speaker B:I always have to catch myself out because, well, I have a baby brain still, even though the youngest is nearly 7, my brain just doesn't quite keep up with my mouth sometimes.
Speaker A:All the other ways I don't have an excuse, I'm just not very good.
Speaker A:All right, so for people that have listened today, what's one thing that you would like them to take away from.
Speaker B:This episode so you can make a change?
Speaker B:You can get parents involved in any way that suits you.
Speaker A:I like it.
Speaker A:That's good.
Speaker A:All right, well, no, I've really enjoyed this conversation.
Speaker A:It's opened my eyes a little bit to a couple of areas.
Speaker A:It's been really interesting.
Speaker A:Hopefully the listeners have too.
Speaker A:So do you want to just take a moment to remind people where they can find you?
Speaker B:Oh, well.
Speaker B:So we're online.
Speaker B:Mylearner driver.co.uk and you'll find a little landing page and you can choose whether you're an instructor, a parent or a learner.
Speaker B:There's a seven day free trial for everybody if you just want to sign up and have a look.
Speaker B:And then, yeah, obviously the payment options for properly signing up are on there.
Speaker B:We will be creating loads of resources as well that you can share with your learners over the coming months to spread the word.
Speaker A:All links to that will be in the show notes and the episode description, but all that's left for me to say is bing, thank you for joining me today.
Speaker A:Kate, it's been a pleasure.
Speaker B:Oh, thanks so much for having me, Terry.
Speaker B:It's been fun.
Speaker B:I'd enjoyed it and I wasn't that nervous.
Speaker A:Excellent.
Speaker A:So how scary was I?
Speaker B:You weren't scary.
Speaker B:No, it's been lovely.
Speaker B:Thank you.
Speaker A:I'll take that as a win.
Speaker A:So a big thank you to Kate Monk for joining me today.
Speaker A:Great episode.
Speaker A:And I would really encourage you all to go and check out my learner driver and at the very least check out the free trial and share that with your learners as well.
Speaker A:But I also want to thank every guest that's been on over the past 250 episodes.
Speaker A:I'm not gonna name them all now.
Speaker A:I did on a recent Facebook post and managed to miss someone off so special shout out to Penny Alexander, who I may have missed off the Facebook post, but she was a brilliant guest and has been a regular contributor to the instructor Podcast Premium as well.
Speaker A:So big thank you to Penny, but big thank you to Kieran, everyone else that's been on.
Speaker A:And a big thank you to you guys for listening.
Speaker A:The 250 episode does feel like a really big milestone for me.
Speaker A:It has got me a bit sentimental, it has got me at times a little bit emotional.
Speaker A:But I hope that you've enjoyed it.
Speaker A:I hope you've enjoyed at least a bulk of the 250 episodes.
Speaker A:And I do just want to take a moment to remind you that if you are listening to this now and you hang about all the way to the end of the episode, you are clear the best listeners.
Speaker A:You are clearly the best driving instructors.
Speaker A:You are clearly the best people.
Speaker A:Not only that, you are my favorite people.
Speaker A:All you ever need to do is if you ever see me, come up and tell me that you listen to the end of the show and I will happily give you a hug or a high five or whatever it is desire.
Speaker A:Because you guys are the top dogs of the indie driving trip to the world.
Speaker A:So big thank you for listening.
Speaker A:Big thank you for listening to the end.
Speaker A:But for now and Potentially the next 250, let's keep racing standards.
Speaker A:The instructor podcast with Terry Cook talking with leaders, innovators, experts and game changers about what drives them.
Speaker A:And for those of you wondering, yes, I do have a favorite episode out of the 250, I do have an absolute favorite episode.
Speaker A:But no, I'm not gonna tell you.
