Buckle Up! The Truth About EVs and Driving Technology
Terry Cook and guest Nick Smith dive into the evolving world of electric vehicles (EVs), exploring the distinctions between manual, automatic, and electric driving experiences.
They discuss how EVs are not only reshaping the way we drive but also challenging common misconceptions, such as concerns over battery reliability and environmental impact.
They address myths surrounding EV technology, including the belief that charging stations are always empty.
Nick shares his insights on the practical advantages of teaching in an electric vehicle, highlighting features like regenerative braking that enhance the driving experience. By the end of the conversation, listeners will appreciate the advancements in EV technology and why learning to drive in these modern vehicles can lead to safer roads for everyone.
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Terry Cook welcomes Nick Smith to the Instructor Podcast, diving deep into the evolving landscape of vehicle technology with a focus on electric vehicles (EVs). The discussion centers on the practical differences between manual, automatic, and electric cars, emphasizing the unique driving experience each offers. Cook shares his personal journey of transitioning from a manual to an EV, explaining the benefits he has encountered, such as the joy of never stalling and the smoothness of driving an electric vehicle. Smith elaborates on how the teaching methods for learners differ when driving an EV, particularly in terms of braking and acceleration, which can feel markedly different due to regenerative braking technology. This innovative feature allows the car to convert kinetic energy back into electricity, thereby enhancing efficiency and reducing the need for frequent charging, a detail that is especially relevant for driving instructors training future drivers.
As the conversation unfolds, Cook and Smith tackle common misconceptions about EVs, including concerns about battery life and reliability. They discuss the advancements in battery technology, noting that many modern electric vehicles come with warranties that reflect their durability. Smith highlights the importance of teaching learners about the unique characteristics of driving an EV, including the technology that underpins it, which can ultimately lead to safer and more informed drivers on the road. They also touch upon the broader implications of adopting EVs, such as their environmental impact compared to traditional combustion engines, making a case for the importance of understanding these vehicles in the context of modern driving instruction.
The episode concludes with a humorous yet insightful look at the future of driving, with both hosts agreeing that as technology continues to advance, educators in the driving space must adapt to ensure that new drivers are well-prepared to navigate the roads with confidence, whether they are in an EV, a hybrid, or a traditional gasoline vehicle. The dialogue is punctuated with anecdotes and valuable insights, making it clear that the transition to electric driving is not only viable but also exciting for both instructors and learners alike.
Takeaways:
- Electric vehicles (EVs) provide a smoother and quieter driving experience compared to traditional combustion engines, enhancing overall enjoyment.
- Regenerative braking in EVs allows drivers to recover energy while slowing down, making it more efficient than conventional braking systems.
- The transition from manual to EVs can help reduce learner anxiety, as there is no clutch to manage.
- Most EVs are equipped with advanced safety features that can significantly reduce accident risks for new drivers.
- Charging infrastructure is rapidly improving, and many drivers can charge their EVs at home, reducing reliance on public charging stations.
- EV batteries are designed to last, often maintaining over 90% capacity even after eight years of use.
Transcript
The Instructor Podcast with Terry Cook talking with leaders, innovators, experts and game changers about what drives them.
Host:Welcome to the Instructor Podcast.
Host:This is a show that helps you become an even more awesome driving instructor and run a better business.
Host:As always, I am your splendid host Terry Cook and I'm delighted to be here, but even more delighted that you have chosen to listen because we are continuing season nine which is based all around technology.
Host:And who better to have sponsor a technology season than My Drive Time, the industry's premium award winning business management app.
Host:Find out more@mydrivetime.co.uk but on today's show we take a deep dive into vehicle technology, namely the difference between manual, auto and evs as Nick Smith joins us to explain all, including regenerative braking, the batteries over the updates, and how Nick teaches differently in an ev.
Host:But just before we get stuck in, I want to point you in the direction of the Instructor podcast website.
Host:That's www.the instructorpodcast.com.
Host:over there you can find everything we have to offer, including our entire back catalog of episodes, free resources and more details on our paid membership which is currently a three weeks trial.
Host:Find out more@theinstructorpodcast.com but for now, let's get stuck into the show.
Nick Smith:So we're now joined by Nick Smith, also known as Robin Hood.
Nick Smith:How we doing Nick?
Terry Cook:I'm not too bad, Terry.
Terry Cook:How are you?
Nick Smith:All the better.
Nick Smith:Seeing your smiley face obviously.
Nick Smith:And thank you for joining us today because I want to talk about evs.
Nick Smith:I want to talk about auto, the difference between evs, auto, manual cars and all that kind of stuff.
Nick Smith:And you're someone I wanted to get on to talk about it.
Nick Smith:But I want to start off by asking you, what do you teach in at the moment?
Terry Cook:I teach in, I call her Eva and I love her dearly.
Terry Cook: She is a: Terry Cook:So 64 kilowatt hour, 150 kilowatt premium, full, full name Hyundai small SUV with an electric drivetrain in it.
Nick Smith:I know what about 7% of that.
Terry Cook:Means, so would you like me to translate for you?
Nick Smith:Well, he said you love her daily, so tell me why you love a daily.
Nick Smith:What is it of that that makes you love her daily?
Terry Cook:She, first of all, she actually looks quite good.
Terry Cook:She's not the car that I ordered.
Terry Cook:I ordered a Kia and got a Hyundai because I got Eva when all the supply chain disruption from COVID was still having an effect.
Terry Cook:And I was with A national driving school at the time, who still owes, still owns my car until I've paid for it in just over a year's time.
Terry Cook:But I went to them and basically I said to them, I did the old car salesman's trick of put an offer out.
Terry Cook:You know, they're going to reject to get what you actually want.
Guest:Yeah.
Terry Cook:And what I actually wanted was a 1.5 turbo manual Kia XCeed 2.
Terry Cook:But that engine had only been out for a month.
Terry Cook:This driving school didn't buy new cars, they bought used ones.
Terry Cook:So I knew I was gonna have a hard sell getting to buy a brand new car.
Terry Cook:So the first thing I said was, right, I'll fix one of your problems if you fix one of mine.
Terry Cook:I'll fix your lack of auto instructors if you fix the fact my fuel bill is too high.
Terry Cook:And it took about six weeks for them to agree to buy this car for me.
Terry Cook:But when they did, all of the Kia souls in the country had sold.
Terry Cook:There wasn't one available.
Terry Cook:And I was kind of voiced by Man Petard a bit because then I was right on going on going automatic.
Terry Cook:But we found my car, she was pre registered, so she was a year old with 38 miles on the clock.
Terry Cook:About five miles away from this driving school's head office as well.
Terry Cook:So it's relatively local to them.
Terry Cook:And I sat down and I thought, okay, I want the song.
Terry Cook:I love the way they look, I love the way they feel.
Terry Cook:They're really comfortable.
Terry Cook:I had as a demonstrator when I was a car salesman the first Kia soul in the country not registered to Kia as my demonstrator, the first one ever.
Terry Cook:So I've had a bit of a love affair with this, with this model for years.
Terry Cook:But that was heart.
Terry Cook:The business head said what I needed was the, I'd say the oily bits from underneath it, but there's no oil in it, so the not oily bits from underneath it.
Terry Cook:And the Kona is basically a direct sibling to the, to the song.
Terry Cook:So I've got the drivetrain that the business needed in a body that was different to the one that I wanted.
Terry Cook:And I've come to love her.
Terry Cook:She's taken a little while to grow on me, but I do love her.
Terry Cook:She's great.
Terry Cook:And I mean, I went to a driving test yesterday and you made the thing about, also known as Robin Hood.
Terry Cook:I went to the archery club yesterday evening and the examiner had no idea there was a high poundish compound bow and 75 arrows in the boot.
Terry Cook:So she can Serve both of my purposes, business and personal.
Guest:There you go.
Nick Smith:Well, I wanted to get you on because you've driven all sorts, you've dealt in all kinds of different vehicles.
Nick Smith:So I want to start off by asking you to talk us through the difference between manual, automatic and an EV and talk us through it to someone that doesn't know.
Terry Cook:Okay, let's start off with manual.
Terry Cook:Manual is quite simple.
Terry Cook:You've got a combustion engine at the front.
Terry Cook:Petrol goes in, spark fire, spins a crankshaft, which goes into a gearbox.
Terry Cook:Now, in that gearbox, you've got a number of different cogs.
Terry Cook:And as you select first, second, third, fourth, fifth, you are changing the difference between the wheels and the engine's speed.
Terry Cook:And you select that manually.
Terry Cook:With a H pattern gearbox or.
Terry Cook:Or whatever the selection method is, there's a clutch that you've got to control yourself because you decide when the gears are going to change.
Terry Cook:You'll be familiar with this.
Terry Cook:I know that you teach manual.
Terry Cook:Yep.
Terry Cook:For automatic, there are two ways that they tend to do it.
Terry Cook:Well, two and a half.
Terry Cook:Either the manufacturer will automate the manual.
Terry Cook: ytronic gearbox from the late: Terry Cook:They took the clutch pedal away because the computer decided when to use it rather than the driver, and that then became compliant with.
Terry Cook:Compliant with code.
Terry Cook:Code 79 on the license, which is automated transmission.
Terry Cook:The transmission that that refers to isn't actually the gearbox.
Terry Cook:It's the bit between the engine and the gearbox or the bit in the bell housing.
Terry Cook:So that's either a clutch or a torque converter.
Terry Cook:Okay.
Terry Cook:If the driver has no control over that, you can drive it on an automatic license.
Terry Cook:Okay.
Terry Cook:So you can still change gears on an automatic license.
Terry Cook:It's got to do it with a flappy paddle gearbox like Volkswagen's dsj.
Terry Cook:So the two things I refer to their clutch, you know about, because you.
Terry Cook:You teach about it or teach it all the time.
Terry Cook:Pedal goes down, plates open, pedal comes up, plates close and transfer power.
Terry Cook:Torque converter is basically.
Terry Cook:Basically a disc of oil with a fan on each side.
Terry Cook:The engine spins the fan, and when you come off the brakes, the fan that's attached to the wheels can also spin and the oil causes it to turn, which is why a torque converter automatic will creep.
Terry Cook:So when you come off the brakes in a automatic with a torque converter, the car will start to roll forward.
Terry Cook:Okay.
Terry Cook:Then you get to electric, which is basically an automatic.
Terry Cook:But there is generally no Gearbox, there's a reduction gear in there because the motor spins faster than the wheels need, but there's no additional cogs and it's just an electric motor which drives through this reduction gearbox directly to the wheels and drives the car forward.
Terry Cook:Still no clutch pedal.
Terry Cook:So automatic.
Terry Cook:You've answered the question.
Terry Cook:Yes.
Nick Smith:You've explained in a way that made sense to me, so I'm sure, so others will understand it.
Nick Smith:But what made you switch then?
Nick Smith:Because.
Nick Smith:Well, in fact, what made you skip automatic?
Nick Smith:Because I know that in your.
Nick Smith:Your learner car you went from manual to elect ev.
Nick Smith:What made you skip automatic?
Terry Cook:I mean, partially, as I said, I was by my own petard a bit.
Terry Cook:I.
Terry Cook:I put out the.
Terry Cook:I know they won't spend this much on a car, so I'll get the one that I want.
Terry Cook:And they agreed to spend that much on my car.
Terry Cook:But I.
Terry Cook:I didn't want to go automatic.
Terry Cook:When I went and test drove the manual, they had the electric demonstrator there and I was intrigued enough to say, can I have a go?
Terry Cook:And we got to the first speed limit, change from 30 to 60 and I was giggling like a schoolgirl.
Terry Cook:It was brilliant fun.
Terry Cook:It drove really well, it was really quiet, it was comfortable, it was smooth.
Terry Cook:Which is why I took the risk of them agreeing to it.
Terry Cook:Automatic.
Terry Cook:If I'm going to have to pay for petrol, I'd rather change gear myself because I feel more involved driving a manual.
Nick Smith:It's interesting because I no desire to go automatic, but I do have a desire to go ev and not necessarily for the environmental aspect.
Nick Smith:All that does play a part for me.
Nick Smith:But I think you're right, I like changing gear.
Nick Smith:I think, you know, I'm.
Nick Smith:I enjoy a combustion engine.
Nick Smith:I.
Nick Smith:I do, but.
Nick Smith:So when I change the automatic, seems pointless to me, it might as well go to it.
Nick Smith:But I'm interested to ask about your learners as well.
Nick Smith:So when you switched, did you have learners when you switched that went from one car to the other?
Terry Cook:I did.
Terry Cook:I had.
Terry Cook:I'd say probably about 30% of my learners came with me.
Terry Cook:Of those two of them decided they didn't like my car, my new car, so they continued learning with me in their own manual.
Guest:Right.
Terry Cook:But it's.
Terry Cook:About 30% of my learners came with me rather than rejoin the waiting list for a manual instructor.
Terry Cook:So may have been aided and abetted by the time we were in, because at that time, waiting lists were immense.
Guest:Yeah.
Nick Smith:So there were a couple that like it, but what.
Nick Smith:What were the thoughts of the ones that stayed?
Nick Smith:How did they?
Nick Smith:I mean, they must presume they liked it because they stayed.
Nick Smith:But how did they find the car?
Terry Cook:At the end of the day, it's just a car.
Terry Cook:And once they got used to not putting the clutch down, first couple of junctions, I did, I did do the whole, right, we're going back to a nursery room thing while you get used to this.
Terry Cook:And one of the things I liked about it is that I was no longer being thrown sideways around my own car.
Terry Cook:Instead, they kept trying to put me through the windscreen because when we came up to a junction, there was a couple of times that both feet went onto the brake pedal.
Terry Cook:But after that, it was just a car.
Terry Cook:They liked the fact it was a bit bigger.
Terry Cook:I mean, the listener can't see me.
Terry Cook:You can.
Terry Cook:I'm not exactly a small chap.
Terry Cook:The car that I was teaching him before was a courser.
Terry Cook:So I.
Terry Cook:I took up a fair bit of space in the car with it being a slightly larger car, there was more space for.
Terry Cook:For both of us.
Terry Cook:And there is a race center console in my car.
Terry Cook:So there is a physical divider between instructor and learner.
Guest:Right.
Terry Cook:There's a.
Terry Cook:There's a.
Terry Cook:There's a barrier that it's a whole lot easier to not subconsciously cross.
Terry Cook:So they like that.
Terry Cook:They like the technology that was in it in terms of the driver assistance features and things like that.
Terry Cook:And they got to know the technology in it that was.
Terry Cook:With regards to the electric drivetrain, that.
Nick Smith:Physical bar you mentioned.
Nick Smith:I reckon that a few instructors could do with that, considering some of the feedback I've had from my recent episode with Laura Morris where she said, be careful where your hands go.
Nick Smith:A lot of people said that, so that could be useful.
Terry Cook:But see, I drive, I teach like this.
Terry Cook:You can see me, my arms are crossed.
Terry Cook:And that's because I talk.
Terry Cook:You can see I talk.
Terry Cook:My hands.
Guest:Yeah.
Terry Cook:And my hands can talk their way onto the wrong side of the car without realizing they're doing it.
Nick Smith:Yes, you and I alike, I think there.
Nick Smith:But.
Nick Smith:So what's your.
Nick Smith:I suppose, from two perspective, what's your overall experience been with the ev from the perspective of a driver and that.
Terry Cook:As a adi, as an instructor, it's been absolutely fine.
Terry Cook:The only problem I've had with this particular car is one learner who said it was too big.
Terry Cook:And that's.
Terry Cook:That's obviously a car thing, not an electric thing.
Terry Cook:Because if I'd have turned up in the hybrid version or if I turned up in the manual, it's the same shell.
Terry Cook:It's the same size.
Terry Cook:So that's, that's not even an electric car problem.
Terry Cook:Most learners love it.
Terry Cook:They usually towards the end of their learning journey, I point out to them that they never stalled and they're like, oh, yeah, I've never stalled.
Terry Cook:How have I never stalled?
Terry Cook:It says, well, one, it's automatic.
Terry Cook:Two, you cannot, it's, it's physically impossible to store an electric.
Terry Cook:It just cannot be done.
Terry Cook:There's nothing there to store.
Terry Cook:But they, they do get that little dopamine boost when I point out to them, yeah, you do realize everybody is learning in a manual car stalled by now and you haven't.
Terry Cook:But yeah, it's.
Terry Cook:I teach it as a car, not as an electric car.
Terry Cook:First I'll teach them to drive the car, then I'll teach them to drive an electric if there's time left because there is some slightly different ways that I can drive it.
Terry Cook:So I teach my learners, obviously, the brake pedal to stop, the accelerator pedal to go, etc.
Terry Cook:Etc.
Terry Cook:When I drive the car, I mean, I drive, I will tomorrow, as I say, drive to York from Sheffield for a competition and I will not touch the brake pedal all the way there.
Terry Cook:Even when I get there, I won't touch a brake pedal.
Terry Cook:I'll stop it using the flappy paddles.
Terry Cook:I can drive spiritedly without illegally.
Nick Smith:I like that phrasing spiritedly but not illegally.
Terry Cook:Oh, no, it's great because obviously most cars these days have got a programmable speed limiter.
Terry Cook:So you can set the speed limiter and you can absolutely tear the back end out of it all the way up to the limit and then it stops.
Terry Cook:So I can enjoy the drive when it's safe to do.
Terry Cook:So Woodhead Pass is great fun in it and you're never once doing anything unsafe or illegal.
Nick Smith:It's.
Terry Cook:Have you ever driven one of the larger engine small cars like citroen Did a C1 diesel?
Nick Smith:No.
Terry Cook:The C1 diesel was a brilliant piece of fun because it weighed about 3kg soaking wet and it had a 1.4 diesel in it, so it could motor.
Terry Cook:And outside of electric, it's the most fun I've ever had in a car.
Terry Cook:It's got no features at all.
Terry Cook:I mean, they were.
Terry Cook:The big selling point for this car was the fact it had a CD player.
Terry Cook:But it's, it's.
Terry Cook:Because it's a different way of driving.
Terry Cook:It's about preserving the momentum rather than using the power.
Terry Cook:And with the ev, it's the same because if you're using the brakes, you're wasting energy.
Guest:Yeah.
Nick Smith:I do want to come on to breaking in a minute, but just before we do, you were saying before about some of the ways that you, like you teach children to drive, as in generally drive, and then you add in some stuff that's specific to an ev.
Nick Smith:So what are some of the bits that you might add in?
Terry Cook:Very early on I discussed the different way it breaks because that's important to know.
Terry Cook:And in any here or Hyundai of the same vintage as mine, and I do say vintage, but any Kia, Hyundai at the same age, you've got flappy paddles that allow you to control the electronic braking.
Terry Cook:So we do practice driving the car with the braking set to mimic a combustion car.
Guest:Yeah.
Terry Cook:Because I am very well aware that the majority of my learners will drive a combustion car after eva, not an electric.
Terry Cook:Later on, if we have time, we then go into the whole.
Terry Cook:But this is how you drive it without ever touching the brake pedal.
Terry Cook:Because by then they've developed the skills.
Terry Cook:We're basically marking time, waiting for the six month away test.
Terry Cook:And they've developed the skills to read the road far enough ahead that they can plan.
Terry Cook:They can plan their stopping so it can take slightly longer and be more energy and fuel efficient.
Terry Cook:And these are techniques that they can take into their combustion car and save on petrol.
Nick Smith:From your experience, because I know there's still talk around making it so that the automatic driving license will cover manual cars as well.
Nick Smith:From your experience, would that be a wise decision?
Terry Cook:It depends.
Terry Cook:The decision to stop trailer training had exactly the effect I expected it to.
Terry Cook:Quite a lot of people went out and bought a caravan.
Terry Cook:A relatively small minority went out and bought training.
Terry Cook:There will be people that go out and buy training and that that work well for them.
Terry Cook:But if you take somebody that's only ever driven with two pedals and give them a third one, then that does increase risk.
Terry Cook:However, it's worked in America for years.
Terry Cook:Generally, it's worked in America.
Terry Cook:We all see the popular culture and people kangarooing around the streets of large American cities, learning to drive stick, as they call it.
Terry Cook:But if it happens, we'll deal with it.
Terry Cook:You tend to find the people that would choose to drive a manual are the enthusiasts, those with a passion for it, that are more likely to engage with training because they want to protect the item that they treasure.
Nick Smith:Putting you on the spot a little bit with this one, I think, actually because.
Nick Smith:Do you think that because of the way you've just described, you work with all others and the things you teach them, do you think that your learners would be able to manage a clutch essentially better because of the way you taught them.
Terry Cook:I'm gonna say no, because we don't actually talk a lot about clutch.
Guest:Right.
Terry Cook:Because we don't have one.
Terry Cook:They've chosen to learn to drive in a vehicle which doesn't have one.
Terry Cook:So I don't tend to discuss what a clutch is and what it does unless they say, oh, I've gone out and I bought this car.
Terry Cook:Oh, that's.
Terry Cook:That one's got a clutch in it.
Terry Cook:So this, when your car goes sort of rocks you forward and back.
Terry Cook:When you're accelerating, that's what's happening is the computer's opening and closing the clutch, so you're breaking power, which is why it's feeling different.
Terry Cook:To this, we discuss the differences between their car and mine, but we don't discuss the differences between my car and a hypothetical other car.
Nick Smith:Interesting.
Nick Smith:Anyway, slightly off topic, but what I did want to ask you specifically as well was I can't think of where to phrase this other than pass rate.
Nick Smith:So when you've switched from manual to ev, did anything around the test and around your pass rate potentially change dramatically or was it a seamless switch?
Terry Cook:There was a change.
Terry Cook:It was a trend ever so slightly downwards, but it wasn't drastic compared to my reasonably limited experience in manual because I only taught in manual for about a year and a half.
Terry Cook:So compared to that, I'm dealing with more learners with anxiety, I'm dealing with more learners with other mental health issues, and I'm dealing directly because of the change in to something automatic.
Terry Cook:I'm dealing with a lot more learners with physical disability as well, particularly the ones with anxiety, with autism and other conditions like that.
Terry Cook:Sometimes I say, sometimes they need to have a go and fail to have a chance at passing.
Terry Cook:They need to experience it because we do what we can with the mock test.
Terry Cook:But you've never got that extra percentage of.
Terry Cook:At the end of this, I might get a license.
Terry Cook:So there are some that need to fail to have a chance to pass.
Nick Smith:It's interesting you say that, because I think I've unintentionally develop a reputation in my area as the guy that helps people with anxiety and that side of it, but also as the guy that gets you out of trouble when your instructor screwed you over.
Nick Smith:I'm that guy.
Nick Smith:So I don't see that difference in manual and automatic or ev.
Nick Smith:But more people with anxiety do go to automatic, don't they?
Terry Cook:Yes.
Terry Cook:The other thing is, when I was teaching Emanuel, I was Being assigned my learners by a national driving school.
Terry Cook:The majority of the time I've been teaching in automatic, I've been independent.
Terry Cook:So I'm picking my learners and my learners have been picking me.
Terry Cook:Yeah.
Terry Cook:So part of that change could be, as you say, that I'm developing a reputation for.
Terry Cook:I'm the one to go to if you have these conditions.
Terry Cook:I mean, I doubt it, because we have one of the most experienced, complex needs instructors in the country who lives about four miles that way.
Terry Cook:But it could be that my reputation is attracting these types of learners to me.
Nick Smith:Do you think like the people that struggle with anxiety and that side of stuff?
Nick Smith:So drift towards automatic because there's a feeling it's going to be easier because there's no clutch?
Terry Cook:Yes.
Terry Cook:I think it's a mistaken impression because 5% of our job is teaching them how to operate the vehicle and 95% is teaching to predict what the other person's going to do.
Terry Cook:So the actual learning to drive, learning to operate the car is easy, learning to drive is hard.
Terry Cook:But that for anxiety, also for autistic spectrum disorders, there's sequencing issues.
Terry Cook:So removing the clutch gear, clutch steps from the chain does help with people that have issues with sequencing.
Terry Cook:So adhd, autism and things like that, they're almost now being signposted towards automatic rather than manual, because the general perception is it's easier, it is possible for anybody to learn to drive a manual.
Terry Cook:It just might take a lot longer.
Nick Smith:Yeah, I would agree, I would agree.
Nick Smith:But I do want to move on because I want to talk a bit about breaking, as we said earlier, I want to talk about some of the specifics to EV and the technology around that, and one of which is breaking, because I've never driven an ev, but I have had it explained to me and, you know, I'm aware of it.
Nick Smith:So tell us, tell us why the braking's different in an ev.
Terry Cook:Okay, the first thing to mention here is that all a car is is a device for converting energy.
Terry Cook:So your car takes liquid energy in the form of petrol, converts it to movement energy via fire.
Terry Cook:Yeah.
Terry Cook:And when you need to get rid of that movement energy, you put your foot on the brake pedal, friction turns that kinetic energy into heat and sound and gets rid of it.
Terry Cook:Yeah.
Terry Cook:In my car, I have an additional braking system.
Terry Cook:It's called regenerative braking.
Terry Cook:And basically the way it works, if you look at a motor and a generator, the hardware is the same.
Terry Cook:It's just where the force comes in.
Terry Cook:So to make it make a motor go, you put Electricity in one end and movement comes out the other.
Terry Cook:To generate electricity, you put movement in one end and electricity comes out the other way.
Terry Cook:Regenerative braking does both, basically.
Terry Cook:So when you're driving forwards, you're taking electricity from the battery, converting it to movement via the motor, which is then transferred to the wheels.
Terry Cook:When you want to slow down, you take your foot off the accelerator, you stop, providing electricity to the motor.
Terry Cook:So now the motor's energy is coming from the turning wheels and it converts that kinetic energy via the magnets and the coils of copper wire that are inside the motor back into electricity and puts it into the battery.
Terry Cook:Now there is no new energy in the universe.
Terry Cook:This is a basic fundamental of physics.
Terry Cook:So the energy we have now is the same amount of energy as there was at the Big Bang, and the same amount as when it all comes back in.
Terry Cook:In a couple of billion years time.
Terry Cook:Don't worry, we won't be here for it.
Terry Cook:So all we're doing here is converting kinetic energy back into electrical energy.
Terry Cook:There is a loss because there's road friction, there's air resistance.
Terry Cook:No system is 100% efficient, so there's going to be loss in transmission and things like that.
Terry Cook:But I tend to use probably about 35% of my volts twice through regenerative braking.
Terry Cook:It does help that I teach in the city on seven hills, there's a lot of downhill and a lot of regenerative braking.
Terry Cook:But that's what regenerative braking is.
Terry Cook:Basically, it's converting kinetic energy back to electrical energy and storing it in the battery and basically it gives me more free petrol.
Nick Smith:I'm reading up on this and it says a normal car braking simply wastes energy.
Nick Smith:But with regenerative braking, I got it right, regenerative braking, some of this otherwise unharnessed energy is able to be reused.
Nick Smith:And I don't know, I like that.
Nick Smith:That appeals to me.
Nick Smith:But I also found it interesting that they described it as on a normal car.
Nick Smith:So evs are still classed as the outlier.
Nick Smith:They're not a normal car.
Nick Smith:There's something different.
Nick Smith:And, you know, just out of curiosity, do you like that?
Nick Smith:The fact that it's viewed almost as an abnormal.
Nick Smith:Abnormal car?
Nick Smith:As an ev?
Terry Cook:Personally, yes.
Terry Cook:Professionally, no.
Terry Cook:Personally, I like having the special one.
Terry Cook:Professionally, no.
Terry Cook:Because if it's viewed as being abnormal, then it reduces my potential customer pull.
Guest:Yeah.
Terry Cook:What I will say is, when was that written?
Nick Smith:I can't tell you now because for.
Terry Cook:The last, I think about a year off top of my head, electrified vehicles.
Terry Cook:So including hybrids have made up more than 50% of the market.
Terry Cook:So what that article turns a normal car is now slightly abnormal.
Nick Smith:I would hazard a guess it's less when it was written in more it was written by, you know, if it's written by the combustion engine fan, it's going to be normal.
Terry Cook:Yeah.
Nick Smith:And everything else.
Terry Cook:I mean looking at the the nation's fleet, electric is still a very small part.
Guest:Yeah.
Terry Cook:Hybrid is still a relatively small part.
Terry Cook:So I could take the argument that that is normal looking at the whole fleet, but looking at the new car market, vehicles that have regenerative braking because hybrids get their energy the same way using regenerative braking.
Terry Cook:Looking at those then in the new car market, pure combustion is now slightly a rarity compared to electro.
Host:We're just taking a brief pause to give a shout out to a few of our latest sign ups to the Instructor Premium and they are Graham K.
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Host:To find out more, use the link in the show notes or head tothe Instructor podcast.com but I also want to take a moment to thank My Drive Time for being sponsors of season nine of the Instructor Podcast.
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Host:Dan Helm the team have been supporting instructors for over 10 years now and to find out more head over to mydrivetime.co.uk but for now let's get stuck back into the show.
Nick Smith:Is regenerative breaking something that you discuss and talk for with your students as well?
Terry Cook:Yes, you When I got to the whole conversion of energy thing, you might have noticed it a little bit more practice and a little less talk.
Terry Cook:It is something that I that I have to explain on a on a relatively regular basis because usually at the point where they're starting to do private practice in their own car, because when they're saying can I go out in my own car?
Terry Cook:It's yes, but this progenitor braking you've been feeling may not be present in your 20 year old mini, which, I mean, the learner that passed yesterday, she's got a 15 year old mini called Mouse and we talked a lot about the difference between my car and hers.
Terry Cook:Yeah, I'd have loved that car for my first car.
Nick Smith:So, I mean, you can change your settings as well, can't you?
Nick Smith:So it's a different level of regeneration, I suppose.
Terry Cook:Yeah, yeah.
Terry Cook:Not all cars allow you to do that, but a lot of them do these days.
Terry Cook:Mine has four levels.
Terry Cook:The newer Kia's have five, new Kia and Hyundai have five.
Terry Cook:So level zero is just that, no regenerative braking.
Terry Cook:And that is, even for somebody that's used to driving, combustion, that's scary because in your car you come off the accelerator, what happens?
Nick Smith:Slow down?
Terry Cook:Yeah.
Terry Cook:Well, eventually set it to zero and it does slow down, but it's completely imperceptible because the only thing slowing the car down is wind resistance and tire.
Terry Cook:You know, the tire resistance.
Guest:Yeah.
Terry Cook:So it's.
Terry Cook:You come off the accelerator and you expect the car to slow down and sometimes it even speeds up, which is mildly scary.
Terry Cook:Level one is approximately equivalent to an automatic car's engine braking.
Guest:Right.
Terry Cook:Level two is a little bit more than a big, big manual, a big engine manual, so 2 litre diesel manual engine braking.
Terry Cook:And level three is.
Terry Cook:I mean, it's enough that if you're, if you come off the accelerator on the motorway, all the way off the accelerator on the motorway, the car will pitch you forward in the seat, the seatbelt will catch you.
Terry Cook:It breaks that hard and it regenerates actually faster than it charges on a rapid charger.
Terry Cook:So it can regenerate at about 85kW kilowatt hour, whereas rapid charging goes up to about 77.
Nick Smith:Does the actual braking feel any different?
Nick Smith:So, like you said, you come off the gas, or not gas in your case, but you can off the accelerator.
Terry Cook:Come off the volts.
Terry Cook:Yeah, yeah.
Nick Smith:And the level that's set to will affect how much you slow down.
Nick Smith:But does the braking feel any different in comparison?
Terry Cook:Not in mine.
Terry Cook:Mine is break by wire.
Terry Cook:So you put your foot on the foot brake and the computer will then use any remaining regenerative braking to achieve the amount of retardation that you want.
Terry Cook:If you can't achieve that retardation with solar regenerative, it will bring the friction brakes into use.
Terry Cook:One of the major upsides of regenerative braking.
Terry Cook:My car is currently 99,110ish miles and it's still on the original brakes.
Nick Smith:See, I was reading about this as well, let's found this interesting.
Nick Smith:You know, you hear all the stuff about your tires wearing down quicker and stuff but then that's offset by the fact that you, you know, your brake pads last longer.
Nick Smith:But one of the things I read was that certain sort of mechanics and garages were saying that occasionally they're finding that the brakes on electrics are seizing up because they're not being used enough.
Nick Smith:So is that again something that you talk through specifically our learners?
Nick Smith:Do you actually get them or do you as a driver use the brake a bit more consciously just to make sure that they are being used?
Terry Cook:I don't need to because my learners do it for me.
Nick Smith:Right.
Terry Cook:I do discuss it with learners that are looking to go into electric vehicles after.
Terry Cook:What I tend to say is if you take it to an electric car specialist for servicing, I take mine to.
Terry Cook:There's an organization out there called hevra, Hybrid and Electric Vehicle Repairers association that basically certify independent garages to work on high voltage vehicles.
Terry Cook:And there's a he approved garage about a mile away from my house.
Terry Cook:So EVA has gone to them for every service because they are significantly cheaper than the Hyundai dealer, which is about the same distance in the other direction.
Terry Cook:Now I take it into, into them and every second or third service they'll strip the brakes down, clean them and put them back together.
Terry Cook:Because they are specialist in electric vehicles, they take the wheel off to check the brakes and go, yeah, they've barely been used.
Terry Cook:I best clean them, otherwise they're going to seize up.
Guest:Yeah.
Terry Cook:So if you go to the right people, you don't need to worry about this or if you have the skills, do it yourself.
Nick Smith:But I love that you discuss this.
Nick Smith:Real earners.
Nick Smith:It probably seems obvious to you but you know, so I've been talking about a lot recently is, is a road safety aspect and what we should be talking about more of our learners.
Nick Smith:And I just, I can imagine there'd be a lot of instructors that potentially teach an EV that don't discuss this, that just teach much like you were doing a manual, the basics of how to drive and then off your trot.
Nick Smith:So you know, I love that you're doing that.
Terry Cook:It depends on why you became an instructor.
Guest:Yeah.
Terry Cook:And what your level of understanding of how the car actually works is.
Terry Cook:Now I got into it because I'm a petrol head.
Terry Cook:Look at my working history.
Terry Cook:I'm a driving instructor now.
Terry Cook:I was a truck driver before, I was a car salesman before that and I worked in the drive through lane at McDonald's before that cars have always been a part of my working life.
Terry Cook:I will also point out that when my teachers told me no one was going to pay me to sit on my backside out the window all day, I have proved them very wrong.
Terry Cook:But those that come into it because they're, they're good at driving, they're looking for the flexibility maybe to work around children.
Terry Cook:They may have come in from retail or hospitality or somewhere where they have no reason to know how it works.
Terry Cook:They just know that when they turn the car on, it starts and then we put it in gear, it drives.
Terry Cook:That's absolutely fine.
Terry Cook:And I'm not saying that instructors need to be qualified mechanics because they don't.
Terry Cook:You can just say, right, this is do this and it will work.
Terry Cook:Because the vast majority of road users are do this and it will work.
Terry Cook:There's a relatively small percentage of that that know what's happening when you press this, what is actually happening to make it work.
Nick Smith:No, I, I agree completely.
Nick Smith:No, I'm the prime example of this.
Nick Smith:I know bugger all about cars.
Nick Smith:Someone asked me recently what size engine I've got and I couldn't tell them and I checked to tell them and now 0.5 turbo.
Nick Smith:I've forgotten.
Nick Smith:I couldn't tell you now because I don't care.
Nick Smith:It's the least interesting thing in the world to me.
Nick Smith:But I do enjoy driving.
Nick Smith:I just have no interest in cars.
Nick Smith:But what I do know is that when I go out to my car today, I'm going to have a quick walk around just to check everything looks good.
Nick Smith:So I can pass that on to my learners.
Nick Smith:You know, we can pass on these, these car basic skills, whether that's manual, automatic, petrol, diesel, ev, whatever.
Nick Smith:So I love that you've changed car completely and I now have switched some of the aspects as you said at the beginning.
Nick Smith:Switch some of the aspects of what you teach to accommodate that.
Nick Smith:Again, creating safer drivers on the road.
Terry Cook:Yeah.
Terry Cook:Even if a learner says to me, for example, I have a customer net, well, she's just passed actually, so she's no longer a customer.
Terry Cook:Her vehicle's currently provided by the motability scheme.
Terry Cook:So she has.
Terry Cook:It's a combustion car brand spanking new Audi, Audi Q2.
Terry Cook:But she will not remain eligible for the scheme for life.
Terry Cook:So eventually she's going to need to source her own vehicle that's probably not going to be a brand spanking new Audi.
Terry Cook:So she needs to have at least a rough idea of how to drive a 10, 15 year old Audi.
Terry Cook:Yeah, but when that changes, I hate to use the DVSA's catchphrase, but we're about safe driving for life, not just for the first five minutes after passing.
Nick Smith:Oh, let's not do another hour podcast on this because I'm not sure I 100% agree.
Nick Smith:But either way, that's me not sick.
Nick Smith:I'm not sick.
Nick Smith:For anyone listening now, I'm not saying D drags there for life.
Nick Smith:I'm not going down that avenue.
Nick Smith:I think the last thing I want to ask about this, and this might seem fairly obvious, but I'm intrigued by it.
Nick Smith:Again, I've never driven an EV before and I'm sure if I think other people as well, we've got to the breaking.
Nick Smith:What's the.
Nick Smith:What's aggressive braking like?
Nick Smith:Car.
Nick Smith:It's supposed controlled stop it.
Nick Smith:Is that just like.
Nick Smith:Does that feel normal?
Nick Smith:Is there any ever any issues with that or.
Terry Cook:No, it.
Terry Cook:It.
Terry Cook:It feels normal ever so slightly.
Terry Cook:You get on the brakes faster because as soon as you come past the point where you're providing enough power for the speed you're doing.
Terry Cook:Yeah.
Terry Cook:So as in your combustion car, you put your foot on the accelerator and then you come a little bit off when you get to the speed you want to maintain it.
Terry Cook:If you're then coming past that, the car immediately starts slowing down.
Terry Cook:Yeah.
Terry Cook:So you're coming speed you want minus one.
Guest:Yeah.
Terry Cook:The car's starting to break at that point and regenerate energy.
Terry Cook:So there's a very, very slight, quicker transition from acceleration to braking.
Terry Cook:But it's not particularly noticeable.
Terry Cook:I mean, at the moment, you know, you teach it every day.
Terry Cook:You go stop with your hand up and then you brace and you.
Terry Cook:You're more worried about not headbutting your own dashboard than you are about exactly how the car's slowing down.
Nick Smith:Yes.
Nick Smith:I want to ask you about a couple of things, so I want to talk such on batteries a little bit.
Nick Smith:And maybe this is more around the myth of batteries, but I'm still intrigued by it because whenever I read about this online or people talk about there's this myth that an EV battery needs to replace every three days and all this kind of stuff.
Nick Smith:What's your experience with that?
Nick Smith:What's your knowledge on that?
Terry Cook:Oh, my.
Terry Cook:Subscribe and save for Jira sales with Amazon is set up early days batteries were getting bricked.
Terry Cook:This is due to early technology, early adopters.
Terry Cook:The technology, the infrastructure around the electric vehicle not being electric vehicle, specialized.
Terry Cook:Did you ever watch Top Gear?
Nick Smith:No, I had no interest in cars.
Nick Smith:I don't like Jeremy Clarkson.
Terry Cook:Fair enough.
Terry Cook:The reason I say this is back when electric vehicles were very new and novel.
Terry Cook:First generation Zoe, first generation Leaf, they did an episode where they drove from London to somewhere around York for a day out and they had to stop and run extension cables and plug their three pin plug in and go for dinner in a hotel room while the car charged.
Terry Cook:And this, that and the other.
Terry Cook:That infrastructure was not optimized for electric vehicles these days the infrastructure is.
Terry Cook:So on the rare occasion that I don't charge at home, that I charge out in public, the car and the charger are constantly talking to each other and saying, right, give me this much now because I can take it.
Terry Cook:Okay, I'm getting a bit full, left it off a bit, otherwise you're going to start hurting me.
Terry Cook:And the car and the charger are constantly communicating and optimizing the charge to charge as fast as they can without damaging the car.
Terry Cook:So I have say I'm just about to, just about to tip over 100,000 miles.
Terry Cook:I'm hoping it's not on a lesson so I can get the photo.
Terry Cook:If it isn't a lesson, the learner might be pulling up on the side of a dual carriage.
Terry Cook:I'm about to tip over a hundred thousand miles.
Terry Cook:I am seeing the same day to day lived mileage as I was when I first got the car.
Terry Cook:It's about 250, 260 to a charge.
Nick Smith:It's interesting because again I reading up on this and I'm looking at it, a lot of EVs are coming with eight year warranties and I'm thinking, hold on, if you've got an eight year warranty, then the battery must be, they must be planned.
Nick Smith:The battery lasting for more than eight years cannot put an eight year warranty on something that when the battery goes after two.
Nick Smith:But then looking inside even further, they were finding that after eight years the batteries had a 92% capacity of the original.
Nick Smith:As an, as an average 92% capacity.
Nick Smith:Like you said, there's always going to be some that are worse, especially the earlier models.
Terry Cook:But any average is an average.
Terry Cook:Yeah, just like the average of 40 hours.
Terry Cook:Some people pass in seven hours, some people pass in seven years.
Terry Cook:It's the same with batteries.
Terry Cook:Nissan a couple of years ago put out almost like a statement video thing, basically saying that something like 90% of the electric vehicle batteries they've ever produced are still storing and delivering electricity.
Terry Cook:The ones that have been in cars that have been either mechanically or through accident damage written off.
Terry Cook:Nissan have bought Back put into shipping containers up at Sunderland and they use them to store solar and wind to power the plant.
Guest:Yeah.
Terry Cook:So, and this is first generation Leaf batteries.
Terry Cook:Now these will only be storing about 50% of their designed energy at this point, but that's still a relatively usable amount.
Nick Smith:But I mean, this stuff around batteries and it's still perpetrated, it's still what I see online.
Nick Smith:You know, when I see people, I'll see someone post about an ev, not even bragging about the ev.
Nick Smith:They'll just be talking about, oh, I've got a new kitten ev.
Nick Smith:And you'll see the people jump on.
Nick Smith:And batteries is one that's almost always put up there.
Nick Smith:Do you think that's a myth or do you think that something that used to be true and people have now got in their heads and they can't get out of the head, so this is one of the things they're always going to keep coming back to.
Terry Cook:Yes, in the same way that everybody knows that Fiats are unreliable.
Terry Cook:Yeah, they're not.
Terry Cook:They used to be.
Terry Cook:Everybody knows that Skodas are slow.
Terry Cook:Anybody that's driven a VRs knows they're not slow.
Terry Cook:I mean, Skoda won the Junior World Rally Championship several years in a row, but the reputation is there slow.
Terry Cook:So that is now taken as fact.
Terry Cook:The.
Terry Cook:I mean, the worst thing ever to happen for electric vehicles was Reva bringing out the gee whiz.
Terry Cook:It was ugly, it was slow, it took forever to charge and the batteries lasted about 10 seconds.
Terry Cook:But that was people's first exposure to electric vehicles and that that memory has endured.
Nick Smith:I was tempted to talk about stuff like charging points and stuff like that today, but I don't think we need to because I do think that's one of the myths that has gone away largely.
Nick Smith:I think most people have now realized here.
Nick Smith:Well, actually there's more infrastructure being built and the range is getting better and more people are able to get it at home.
Nick Smith:So I don't think that's something I want to get into too much.
Nick Smith:But I think that's a good point because I record an episode not around the technology, but partly around EVs with Rob cooling way back on season one, I think like the fourth episode or something like that.
Terry Cook:Yeah, it was the one that sort of made me start thinking about electric.
Nick Smith:Oh, there you go.
Nick Smith:You're the second person.
Terry Cook:So it's all your fault.
Nick Smith:We were speaking beforehand how I'm a possibly a net negative for the industry, so maybe that was a bit of a positive, but it's but I remember back then me having genuine concerns around that, and rightly so.
Nick Smith:You know, why shouldn't we have those concerns?
Nick Smith:But I think it's interesting looking back three years ago and going, those concerns for me have gone now.
Nick Smith:They're not there now.
Nick Smith:Yes, some people still haven't, but I just find that interesting.
Nick Smith:But I do want to move on again because I want to speak about this, I want to speak about the over the air updates, because this to me seems obvious, but it still was something I've never really considered.
Nick Smith:Now, again, this isn't necessarily exclusive to EVs, but it's definitely primarily EVs and it's basically updating your car in it.
Nick Smith:Like essentially what's by wi fi.
Terry Cook:Yeah.
Terry Cook:Not all EVs have it, just as not all combustion cars have it.
Terry Cook:Mine doesn't, but my dad's does.
Terry Cook:It's no different to when you log into your computer and it says you've got an update to install.
Terry Cook:The difference is the car is smart enough to install the update for you.
Guest:Yeah.
Terry Cook:What I do get on a relatively regular basis is a message pop up on the car screen saying we've updated our privacy policy in terms of conditions and you have to agree to them before you can continue to use the connected features.
Terry Cook:So that's a form of over the air update.
Terry Cook:The second generation of Hyundai and Kia electrics use over the air updates.
Terry Cook:So whilst I have to, for example, to update my sat nav, I have to plug a USB drive into my computer, download it, plug it into the car and install it the way that I'm guessing you used to have to do on your Mini.
Terry Cook:And it's a clear you're in now, isn't it?
Guest:Yeah.
Nick Smith:No, say Ibiza.
Terry Cook:Sorry, an Ibiza.
Terry Cook:Okay, so the way that you'll have to do with that.
Terry Cook:I know Blaine Walsh will get into his car one day and clip, install, because the car's downloaded, wipe and plugged in overnight.
Terry Cook:And his is Ionic 5.
Terry Cook:So the next generation of he and their electric vehicles.
Nick Smith:I find this fascinating, I really do.
Nick Smith:Just the idea of where we've come with technology, because it actually makes me a bit nervous, if I'm being honest, because I think of stuff like maps and sort of the infotainment side of it, which will be just quite nice little updates.
Nick Smith:Then I know that sort of the higher spec stuff and obviously the more modern we get, they're bringing in stuff like AI and you know, ADAs that will be updated electronically and I don't know, I Think I've got this.
Nick Smith:It's probably.
Nick Smith:What do you call the fears that are that non rash, not rational phobia.
Nick Smith:It's probably a phobia.
Nick Smith:I've got that almost like my phone, when I do the iPhone update that everything's going to change one day.
Nick Smith:Like most of the time when you do it, it's just a little subtle change.
Nick Smith:But now and again when your iPhone updates, it's like, whoa, that's mental.
Nick Smith:I've got a new phone.
Nick Smith:I have this fear.
Nick Smith:I haven't got electric car yet.
Nick Smith:Obviously.
Nick Smith:I have this fear that when I've got an electric car, one day I'll go in and I'll update and it'll be like a completely different car.
Terry Cook:I get, I get what you're saying.
Terry Cook:There are times that that can be a good thing.
Nick Smith:Yes.
Terry Cook:When Volkswagen first put out the ID range, the ID3 and the ID4, their infotainment system was absolutely slated.
Terry Cook:It was awful.
Terry Cook:They got it wrong with that.
Terry Cook:If they could have updated that over the air, it would have saved a lot of disruption to learn to, to vehicle owners.
Terry Cook:Tesla are a big one for over the air updates.
Terry Cook:So was Fisker and now Fisker is an example of where it can be a problem if your cars rely on over the air updates.
Terry Cook:What happens when the company that produces the updates goes bust?
Terry Cook:So that's a concern with it, but generally it's, it's no different to your phone or your laptop or your Xbox or whatever your preferred game games console is.
Terry Cook:It's something we're used to.
Terry Cook:They're just applying it to cars and they are using it to bring us new features where they can.
Guest:Yeah.
Terry Cook:In a lot of cars they're almost pre building in the hardware and then giving the new features that require hardware with a software update when they've got the software right, which is much better than it used to be.
Terry Cook:When Vox first put out the Insignia, all the advertising included, you know, the system that spots the signs and displays the speed limits.
Guest:Yeah.
Terry Cook:The first generation Signal was the first car to have that in Vauxhall's range.
Terry Cook:But they couldn't get it working so they advertised a feature and then disabled it in all the cars.
Terry Cook:That, that was old.
Terry Cook:So these days they can sort of sneak it in as an update.
Nick Smith:I'd be interested in your thoughts on this.
Nick Smith:Maybe this is coming off topic slightly, but one of the things I've been talking a lot more this year in particular, because, let me rephrase.
Nick Smith:I used to tell my learners or advise them to buy a cheaper car, you know, when they pass a test, buy a cheaper version, you know, reduce your insurance, all that kind of stuff and learn how to drive.
Nick Smith:Then you know, off you go.
Nick Smith:And this year I've changed my approach.
Nick Smith:This year I'm like you want to essentially buy the most expensive car you can, you want to buy the safest car you can and generally the safer the car the more expensive it's going to be and the more expensive car the more tech it's usually going to have.
Nick Smith:So I think a double sided question for you.
Nick Smith:Firstly, would you agree with that approach that I take?
Nick Smith:And, and secondly, do you think that as an industry we need to do more to promote this technology?
Nick Smith:Not promote as in to showcase this technology and explain this technology so that when people do get the newer cars, which in my opinion they should be, they then better understand it.
Terry Cook:My advice to new drivers, if they have the money to go for a newer car, then do it.
Terry Cook:Because think of all the accidents you hear of for the new drivers.
Terry Cook:A lot of these accidents would be avoided by the adas.
Terry Cook:Systems are now fitted as standard to cars because most of them hit somebody from behind because they didn't break in time or drifted across a line and into a virgin, into a ditch or something like that, lane departure or automatic emergency braking.
Terry Cook:They mitigate these incidents quite a lot.
Terry Cook:If they don't have the money to go out and buy a car that have all their systems on it, my advice to them is to buy the least learner car you can think of.
Terry Cook:When I was learning to drive I learned in a.
Terry Cook:Well I learned in my instructors car of course, 15 diesel Clio.
Terry Cook:But I owned a 1 litre Citroen AX debut Plus.
Terry Cook:The plus must have been for the wheel trims because there was nothing else on this car.
Terry Cook:Radio cassette, villa seats.
Terry Cook:But it was a typical first car back then and my insurance was horrendous, I mean saying it now.
Terry Cook: My insurance back then was: Terry Cook:But this was 20 years ago, it was a lot of money.
Terry Cook:One of my friends, we were studying the same things at the same sixth form.
Terry Cook:We lived on the same postcode, we worked the same part time job at McDonald's.
Terry Cook:He had a 2.5 liter turbocharged Volvo 850 estate as his first car and his insurance was 300 quid, £1,000 cheaper than mine because the algorithm that ran insurance didn't know what to make of it.
Terry Cook:Basically it broke the algorithm and got really cheap insurance.
Terry Cook:So if you think outside the box, if there's something where you find something where there's no data to tell the insurance company.
Terry Cook:Ah, new drivers crash these a lot then.
Terry Cook:Because the real barrier to entry to cars these days is the cost of insurance, not the cost of the car.
Guest:Yeah.
Nick Smith:And do you think that we as instructors, as an industry or profession should be showcasing some of this technology more?
Terry Cook:Yes.
Terry Cook:Yeah.
Terry Cook:Even if they go out and buy an old Snotter for their first car, it's likely within the next 10 years I'll be driving a car that's got all these features.
Guest:Yeah.
Terry Cook:What you were saying about almost the technological reluctance to move to ev, a lot of it is because people don't know how to deal with the new EV features and things like that.
Terry Cook:If we give them an understanding of how these features work now, even they're not going to use them on their first car, they're going to be more likely to choose a car that has these features for their second car, which is going to make them safer.
Nick Smith:I want to finish off by asking you a few myths.
Terry Cook:Oh, I like these.
Nick Smith:Maybe touch on a couple of these throughout the recording.
Nick Smith:But I asked AI for this.
Nick Smith:I asked Microsoft co pilot, I said what are the top five myths around evs?
Nick Smith:So this is what he said to me and I'll say the myth and I'll let you respond however you deem fit.
Nick Smith:So the first one that came up was evs are actually worse for the environment.
Terry Cook:Okay.
Terry Cook:There are ways in which they can be worse for the environment.
Terry Cook:They are more carbon intensive to produce than a combustion car.
Terry Cook:However, the most recent data I've seen says about 50,000 miles.
Terry Cook:The carbon savings of operating it have offset the additional carbon cost of producing it.
Terry Cook:And that's constantly going down as the grid becomes more renewables based.
Terry Cook:The last coal fired power station in the uk, Ratcliffe on saw shut down last week.
Terry Cook:We no longer have any coal in our domestic power mix.
Terry Cook:So that number will have moved because we're no longer churning out carbon.
Terry Cook:If you're a high miler, it's even less of a, even less of a truth if you are the type of person I once bought as a part exchange.
Terry Cook:It was like a 15 year old Corsa that had been owned by little old lady from new and it less than 10,000 miles.
Terry Cook:Yeah.
Terry Cook:Her buying an electric Corsa will do a lot more damage to the environment than her buying a petrol one.
Terry Cook:For most other people it balances out and then once it's Balanced out, it goes positive.
Nick Smith:I like that so much like we were talking or the opposite of what we were talking about before.
Nick Smith:With me, it starts out as a net negative and then moves on to a net positive.
Nick Smith:The opposite of me.
Terry Cook:I will point out.
Terry Cook:I did say that I still think that you are a net positive.
Nick Smith:I'm debating.
Nick Smith:I'm still debating.
Nick Smith:I haven't decided yet.
Nick Smith:All right, so next one that threw up was.
Nick Smith:And we kind of touched on this, but I'll let you comment it again.
Nick Smith:EV batteries are unreliable and need frequent replacement.
Terry Cook:EV batteries are incredibly reliable, with a few exceptions, one of them being actually my car.
Terry Cook:My car is, I believe, probably about two months too young to have been part of the massive program of high voltage battery replacements that he and they did on Kona Electrics because there was a defect in manufacturing the battery.
Terry Cook:So they've had to replace them.
Terry Cook:But they've been done under warranty.
Terry Cook:The vast majority of users of electric vehicles, their batteries be covered in warranty for the majority of their use, even if it fails out of warranty.
Terry Cook:The difference between a battery and an engine is usually it'll be one cell that fails and you can go to a specialist and get that one cell replaced.
Terry Cook:You can't get one cylinder replaced on an engine.
Terry Cook:If you, if you crack a cylinder, you crack the entire engine out to put a new one in.
Host:EVs are too expensive.
Terry Cook:I agree 100%, although even that is going the other way now.
Terry Cook:We're reaching price parity on used cars.
Terry Cook:It was reached a while ago and it's now actually cheaper to buy a used EV than it is to buy the used combustion version.
Terry Cook:The used car market has been less eager in the uptake of electric vehicles in the new car market.
Terry Cook:But even on new cars, the, the new Vauxhall Frontera.
Terry Cook:Did you know the Frontera name was coming back?
Nick Smith:Nope.
Terry Cook:No.
Terry Cook:Vauxhall Frontera is coming back next year.
Terry Cook:And the electric costs the same as the manual.
Nick Smith:Oh, there you go, I suppose with that.
Nick Smith:Same as anything new.
Nick Smith:You know, when you get new, it's going to be more expensive.
Nick Smith:But then as that technology moves on, it's going to come down in price because they learn how to manufacture it, more people buy it, all that kind of stuff.
Terry Cook:But there's economies of scale and demand as well.
Terry Cook:So as more people are buying electric vehicles because we've still got the wave of people buying their first electric car, but we've reached the point now where we've got people that are buying their second electric car at the same time.
Terry Cook:And people that are buying their third electric car and people that bought a G whiz that are buying their sixth electric car that have been electric.
Terry Cook:You know, tree hugging eco mentalist that all of us aren't reported to be.
Terry Cook:I'm not, I.
Terry Cook:I'm not.
Terry Cook:If I win the lottery, I'm buying a V8 as a spare car.
Terry Cook:But there is now more people out there buying the cars, which means it's cheaper to produce them.
Terry Cook:They're buying 100,000 batteries rather than 10,000.
Terry Cook:So the batteries are cheaper.
Terry Cook:100,000 motors rather than 10,000.
Terry Cook:The motors are cheaper, which is bringing the cost down.
Nick Smith:I must admit, you've spoke a lot of sense today.
Nick Smith:But the thing that's going to stick with me is tree hugging environmentalists.
Nick Smith:We'll see how many complaints we get.
Nick Smith:It's fine.
Nick Smith:And then there aren't enough charging stations.
Terry Cook:Depends where in the country you are.
Terry Cook:It depends where in the city you are.
Terry Cook:As I said before, I am in Sheffield.
Terry Cook:If I over the Meda hall side of Sheffield, I have got so many charges that I never need to drop below 99%.
Terry Cook:If I am at the side of the city that I live in, there are very few around me.
Terry Cook:And some of the ones that here have been installed for over a year and still haven't been turned on.
Terry Cook:However, we're at the point now where we don't need.
Terry Cook:We've got a lot more chargers.
Terry Cook:There are now many more chargers than there are petrol pumps.
Terry Cook:But we've got to the point now where we don't need necessarily as many chargers.
Terry Cook:Because I mean, the new Volkswagen ID7, not an instructor car, it is an absolute coach, it's huge.
Terry Cook:But the new ID 7 can do, I believe it's about 580 kilometers on a charge, which is about 450 miles.
Terry Cook:Yeah.
Terry Cook:So this is comparable to the diesel version for most people that would be charging every couple of weeks, once every couple of weeks.
Terry Cook:About 50% of the country can, as I do, charge at home.
Terry Cook:So those people don't need necessarily to use the public charging, except for on special events, going away for Christmas or holiday.
Terry Cook:So there is more than enough infrastructure out there now to support the needs of the network.
Nick Smith:And the fifth myth is my example, the prime example, my theory, the prime example of myths, because that myth was there aren't enough charging stations.
Nick Smith:And this myth is that charging stations are always empty.
Nick Smith:How there can't be enough stations, but the ones that are always empty is completely opposite.
Nick Smith:So it doesn't really make any sense.
Nick Smith:I'm not going to make you answer that one.
Nick Smith:But is there anything else ev wise you would like to talk about today?
Terry Cook:I'm surprised you didn't bring up the myth about electric cars catching fire.
Terry Cook:I was ready to handle that one quite handily.
Nick Smith:You know what?
Nick Smith:I don't think that it's actually one of my pet hates is that one because I don't think it needs addressing.
Nick Smith:I think it's one of the things where even though if you talk about it and talk about in a sensible way, people aren't going to listen and I shouldn't say people, the people with the being a bonnet aren't going to listen.
Nick Smith:They're just going to use it as excuse the phone, you know, stalk the flames.
Nick Smith:But it's that, what was it, 25 to 30 people die every year in in car fires.
Nick Smith:Not one of them has been in an EV.
Terry Cook:There's something like 25 vehicle fires per hundred thousand vehicles.
Terry Cook:For electric vehicles it's a lot higher for.
Terry Cook:I mean look at the Ferrari 458 when that first came out, most of them caught fire.
Terry Cook:I exaggerate slightly.
Terry Cook:I don't want to get Terry sued by Ferrari.
Terry Cook:But they did have a problem with the significant number relative to the number they produced.
Terry Cook:Catching fire.
Terry Cook:Trucks catch fire all the time.
Terry Cook:Just look at the name.
Terry Cook:You drive an internal combustion engine vehicle, you deliberately set fire to a part of your car to make it work.
Nick Smith:I, I don't do you know, I do get it.
Nick Smith:It's a media thing and look, I will just clarify it all.
Nick Smith:Nick's opinions are not necessarily my own, but I know my opinions that not so not necessarily Nick's, but it's a media thing because when a car catches fire, if someone dies in it, it is not reported.
Nick Smith:It just isn't.
Nick Smith:But I guarantee you the first time someone dies in an EV car in a fire that's going to be reported everywhere and it'll be put across.
Nick Smith:It's a fault of the ev.
Nick Smith:The one thing.
Nick Smith:And you might be able to expand on this more than me actually but the one thing that I am aware of that is a problem potentially more is putting the fire out.
Terry Cook:Oh yes.
Nick Smith:My understanding is that EVs are actually safer.
Nick Smith:They're less likely to get caught on fire.
Nick Smith:They're easier to get out of in that situation.
Nick Smith:But putting the fire out is harder.
Terry Cook:Yes.
Terry Cook:The.
Terry Cook:If you get the fire that gets to the battery, the thermal runaway that can happen there.
Terry Cook:I mean I'm not an expert in fire.
Terry Cook:But if the battery catches fire, that could be incredibly difficult to extinguish, which is why a lot of recovery firms are now, you know, the roll on, roll off skips that you see on the back of lorries all over the place.
Terry Cook:They're basically buying them, filling them with water and dumping the car in that.
Guest:Right.
Terry Cook:So, yeah, if your electric vehicle catches fire, they're going to write it off to put it out.
Terry Cook:This is pure and simple.
Terry Cook:But the statistical chances of your electric vehicle catching fire are so much lower than it is in pretty much any other type of vehicle.
Terry Cook:And you're right about the media thing.
Terry Cook:The problem is electric vehicles have a.
Terry Cook:Have a label that can be attacked and this is not going to be universally well received.
Terry Cook:It's the same as smart motorways.
Terry Cook:Smart motorways have a label that can be attacked.
Terry Cook:If you look at some of the collision data compared to normal motorways, they're actually safer in terms of the number of deaths per mile.
Terry Cook:Okay, now, no number of deaths per mile is acceptable unless that number is very round, just.
Terry Cook:Just a zero.
Terry Cook:But they are safer in terms of the number of deaths or significant injuries per mile than standard motorways.
Terry Cook:But they've got a label so they can be attacked.
Terry Cook:And it's the same with EVs, and it's the same with anything that has a label.
Nick Smith:I mean, we see it all the time.
Nick Smith:You know, someone will post a picture on social media, car fire, and then someone else will comment and say, oh, I bet it's an ev.
Nick Smith:And all of a sudden it becomes an ev, even if it isn't.
Terry Cook:But aside from the, the bus in Scotland, the electric bus in Scotland that Harry caught fire, which was a diesel bus in Bolton.
Nick Smith:There you go.
Nick Smith:So aside from the one topic that I specifically didn't want to talk about today, is there anything else you'd like to cover?
Terry Cook:I think we've given a relatively good covering, haven't we?
Nick Smith:I'm glad we spoke today.
Nick Smith:I did want to cover the technology on the reason.
Nick Smith:There's more we can go into, obviously, but I don't want to keep you for too long, but do you want to take a moment just to tell people where they can find you if they want any more?
Nick Smith:Nick Smith.
Terry Cook:Goodness, yeah, you can find me on all social medias.
Terry Cook:I am at Steelcity Drive or you can go to RPS dm.co.uk where pretty much everything I do is on their driving school.
Terry Cook:Some of the podcasting that I do, which I need to get back into, and some of my websites, graphics and photography work on there as well.
Nick Smith:So I'll put links for that in the show notes.
Nick Smith:But I'm presuming the things people can get from you, your podcasting, your photography websites and if someone wants to learn how to fire point your things from a long distance, they can come to you as well.
Terry Cook:They can indeed.
Terry Cook:They need to come to Derbyshire for it, but I can help them out there.
Nick Smith:Well, thank you for joining me today, Nick.
Nick Smith:It's been been an eye opener for me.
Nick Smith:I really enjoyed it.
Nick Smith:Thank you for your time.
Terry Cook:Thank you.
Host:So a big thank you to Nick Smith for joining me today.
Host:Really fascinating discussion.
Host:I'm sure you'll agree there was a.
Nick Smith:Lot of stuff that I'd looked up.
Host:Beforehand and it's interesting that when you get someone on that knows the topic.
Nick Smith:Well, doesn't matter how much research you.
Host:Do, they can answer you.
Nick Smith:And yeah, he was running ring charm.
Host:In a good way at points.
Nick Smith:But yeah, fascinating hearing the differences and.
Host:You know, just finding out more about evs and, and you know, the some of the new myths that have come up, some of the old miss that are stayed, but also just some of the technology that's available in them and not just evs but all modern cars.
Host:So yeah, again, big thank you to Mick and also thank you to my drive time for sponsoring Season nine.
Host:My drive time is a cracking resource.
Host:Definitely want to be checking them out.
Host:Mydrivetime.co.uk super grateful that we're getting sponsors of caliber of my drive time to come along and support the season and I'm grateful for them for helping me out in this way.
Host:So I would encourage you all to go and check them out and especially if you're a PDI because you get free access until you qualify.
Host:Definitely worth checking out again.
Host:Mydrivetime.co.uk but if you want to improve other aspects of being an instructor, then you want to improve things like coaching or building a better business or even getting some help with your mental health.
Host:Sign up to Instructor Podcast Premium.
Host:There's a whole host of content over there to help you become an Even more awesome ADI and you can find that at www.the instructorpodcast.com but for now, let's just keep raising standards.
Terry Cook:The Instructor Podcast with Terry Cook, talking with leaders, innovators, experts in game changers about what drives them.
