Green Room #44 - Anything good on TV recently?
Host Terry Cook is joined byChris Bensted to engage in a lively discussion, they explore the impact of social media on professionalism within the field, highlighting the dangers of instructors sharing misleading content for clicks and views.
The conversation also delves into the importance of maintaining high standards in driver training, emphasising that just because something is acceptable doesn't mean it should be taught or endorsed. With a mix of humour and candid insights, the hosts reflect on the state of professionalism among driving instructors and the need for continuous improvement in teaching practices. Join them as they navigate these critical topics, offering valuable perspectives for both new and seasoned instructors alike.
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Terry Cook and Chris Bensted engage in an insightful conversation about the upcoming changes in the Instructor Podcast, including the exciting transition to live broadcasts on YouTube. The duo shares their feelings about this evolution, expressing both enthusiasm and apprehension as they prepare to record in front of an audience. They emphasize the intention behind this change: to create a more dynamic and engaging environment for listeners. The hosts also delve into the concept of professionalism within the driving instruction industry, discussing the implications of public perceptions shaped by recent media coverage and the importance of maintaining high standards of practice. They highlight the need for instructors to adapt to evolving norms and expectations, ultimately aiming to enhance road safety and the overall reputation of the profession.
As the conversation unfolds, the hosts tackle the controversial topic of graduated driving licensing and its implications for new drivers. They reflect on proposals put forth by organizations like the RAC and AA, acknowledging the challenges of implementing a system that balances safety with practicality. The discussion also touches on the broader context of driving instructor professionalism, with an emphasis on continuous professional development and the duty of instructors to stay informed and engaged in the industry. Through a light-hearted yet thought-provoking dialogue, Cook and Benstead encourage their audience to think critically about their roles as educators and the impact they have on learner drivers.
In addition to these weighty topics, the episode is infused with humour, as the hosts share anecdotes and banter that illustrate the everyday realities of being a driving instructor. They discuss the quirks of student behaviour, the challenges of managing no-shows, and the importance of effective communication with learners and their families. This blend of serious discussion and playful humour creates an engaging atmosphere, making the episode both informative and entertaining. Ultimately, Cook and Bensted leave listeners with a call to action: to embrace the changes in their industry, to foster professionalism, and to recognize the critical role they play in shaping the future of driving education.
Takeaways:
- The Instructor Podcast is evolving by going live on YouTube starting this November, allowing viewers to engage in real-time.
- Graduated driving licensing proposals have been released, aiming to improve road safety for young drivers.
- The discussion around professionalism emphasizes the need for driving instructors to maintain high standards in their practice.
- Social media content created by instructors should prioritize safety over gaining views and clicks.
- The importance of clear communication with students regarding policies and cancellations was highlighted.
- Instructors should strive for continuous professional development to enhance their teaching skills and knowledge.
Transcript
The Instructor Podcast with Terry Cook talking with leaders, innovators, experts and game changers.
Chris Benstead:About what drives them.
Chris Benstead:Welcome to the Instructor Podcast Green Room Edition.
Chris Benstead:This is the podcast that doesn't normally watch the One show, but recently made an exception.
Chris Benstead:As always, I am your mediocre host, Terry Cooker.
Chris Benstead:I'm delighted to be here, but you'll be delighted.
Chris Benstead:It's not just me because I am joined by a big, sexy Chris Benstead.
Chris Benstead:How we doing, Chris?
Terry Cook:Yeah, I'm good, I'm good.
Terry Cook:I'm recovering from a cold still.
Terry Cook:My throat's still a bit croaky, so I'll apologize if I sound huskier than normal.
Chris Benstead:That's always a good thing.
Chris Benstead:But I just realized when I said that then there'll be people listening now that won't get the context behind the nicknames I give you and it's just like, tough luck.
Chris Benstead:They'll have to deal with it.
Chris Benstead:But yeah, I did kind of mention there the One show because we are going to be talking about that today because there was a BBC expose about a driving school and we're going to touch on that a little bit, a little bit later on, not recently, a little bit later on, but this is the show.
Chris Benstead:We cover all the latest news and hot topics for this industry and we've got some massive kind of breaking news to start off with, Chris.
Chris Benstead:I think it's the biggest news of the year.
Chris Benstead:Are you ready?
Chris Benstead:Are you braced?
Terry Cook:Embraced.
Chris Benstead:The Instructor Podcast Green Room is going to be going live on YouTube starting from November.
Chris Benstead:Go straight to the tube so people can watch us as we record it.
Chris Benstead:Chris, how do you feel about that?
Terry Cook:Absolutely petrified.
Terry Cook:Because it's.
Terry Cook:It's proper live and immediately live.
Terry Cook:And that means that, yeah, not that we ever, you know, edit things, but there's no opportunity to regret at that point until it's too late.
Chris Benstead:Well, I mean, that's kind of part of the reason why I put it onto YouTube, because this show is.
Chris Benstead:It's intended to be very different to the instructor podcast.
Chris Benstead:It's.
Chris Benstead:It's a different feel that the Instructor Podcast episodes are produced quite heavily.
Chris Benstead:That makes it sound professional, but edited.
Chris Benstead:But no, they are produced quite heavily.
Chris Benstead:It is professional.
Chris Benstead:I don't want to do myself down.
Chris Benstead:Whereas this one is, well, one.
Chris Benstead:They always wanted to have the feel of it recorded live and.
Chris Benstead:And that's what it is.
Chris Benstead:But there is the opportunity to edit and there have been times and I've gone, Terry, to say that and then I've gone back and taken out.
Chris Benstead:But yeah, it's going to be going live on YouTube because it's, it's the, the evolution of, of this, this green room, I think.
Chris Benstead:So I mean, one thing I will say just quickly because there will be people out there that listen, you know, the podcast version specifically, it will still go out as a podcast, so it'll be broadcast live on YouTube for anyone to watch.
Chris Benstead:It'll be available for the public to watch and comment on YouTube and all that kind of stuff.
Chris Benstead:But it will then go out as a normal podcast and instructor podcast feed as well.
Chris Benstead:So if you want to listen, you can do.
Chris Benstead:And the other thing I just want to say here is that at the minute we record it in front of premium members, you know, sometimes we get known come along, sometimes we get half a dozen, they come along and watch us blabber on for a bit.
Chris Benstead:So I feel a little bit like we're taking something away from them, but we're not because what we're going to do is when we finish recording live on YouTube or streaming live on YouTube, we're going to do like.
Chris Benstead:I think I'm going to call an after show party, although probably not, but an after show party into the instructor podcast premium.
Chris Benstead:So I think everyone's getting somewhere extra there.
Chris Benstead:Chris.
Terry Cook:Sounds good to me.
Chris Benstead:I'm really looking forward to it.
Chris Benstead:Highly nervous because it's technology and there's a chance that go wrong and we'll just go back to as normal.
Chris Benstead:But what's the worst could happen?
Chris Benstead:And the thing I would say, the last thing I'd say actually is that it's one of those things where I don't think anyone else in the industry is going live on YouTube at the minute.
Chris Benstead:I could be wrong completely, but I've not seen anyone.
Chris Benstead:So no one else is doing it.
Chris Benstead:Let's do it.
Chris Benstead:But bit more news because the instructor podcast is back.
Chris Benstead:So this will go out public recording on the 31st of October, which is Halloween.
Chris Benstead:So happy Halloween everyone.
Chris Benstead:We've done it on the last day of the month, the last few years now.
Chris Benstead:But that means that the podcast Season 9 of the podcast been out for a few days.
Chris Benstead:So I can't ask you what you think of it, Chris, because you won't listen because it's not out yet.
Chris Benstead:But by the time people are listening to this it will be.
Chris Benstead:So make sure you are subscribed to everything and enjoying that, that as well.
Chris Benstead:But in other news, I want to talk a little bit about graduated driving licensing now before everyone turns off.
Chris Benstead:I want to talk specifically almost a Little bit about the problem with it because the RAC recently released the official proposal for graduated driving licensing and then shortly after that the AA have released their proposal for graduated driving licensing.
Chris Benstead:And they're very similar, but they're not the same.
Chris Benstead:And I think that's part of the problem.
Chris Benstead:So before we just take a look at the proposal specifically, I'm going to focus on the RAC one, but before we take a look at that specifically, Chris, do you think this is part of the problem?
Chris Benstead:We've not just the road safety sector, but lots of sectors including ours, that people aren't necessarily working together because to me that would have been the perfect time for the RAC foundation and the IA to get together and go, can we combine something here?
Terry Cook:Possibly.
Terry Cook:But equally it could be that by getting it out there and having difference, we then have conversation about it.
Terry Cook:So, you know, politicians don't like being told what to do.
Terry Cook:So by giving them choices and options and they could pick favorites or they could, you know, come up with their own idea, although it's based firmly on the pillars of others that maybe that gets change happening.
Terry Cook:So I don't know if it is a negative.
Terry Cook:It'd be nice if everyone could kind of work together and I think to do that we have to have an opinion.
Terry Cook:So yeah, I get it.
Terry Cook:There's an opportunity there to kind of come together and maybe that's a follow on thing.
Terry Cook:Maybe there is an opportunity then to go, well, we've said this, you said this, here's where we agree as a starting point.
Terry Cook:So it depends what happens next.
Terry Cook:You know, we've been doing this long enough to know that nothing happens next in a lot of cases or empty hollow promises happen next and nothing comes from there.
Terry Cook:I've learned not to hold my breath.
Terry Cook:However, graduated driving licensing, you know, is, is the way forwards in some way.
Terry Cook:It's figuring out what that is and you know, yeah, at that point if, if they've got to agree, so have we.
Terry Cook:I, both you and I are not good at that.
Chris Benstead:One of the things I did like about actually, because we had not told this box on the BBC talking about it and maybe this is the positive side actually, because then we had Edmund King, who's the chair of the AA on the ITV talking about it.
Chris Benstead:So the two big national kind of broadcast channels, BBskin, ITV, both had representatives of each one.
Chris Benstead:Maybe if they'd kind of joined forces, you wouldn't have got that.
Chris Benstead:But I do want to look at just a couple of bits around them and specifically RAC'S ones and I'd be interested in your thoughts on this.
Chris Benstead:So they basically made three key points which is that there will be a six month learning period.
Chris Benstead:We can touch more on that in more detail because that's very ambiguous.
Chris Benstead:Then there will be six months after qualifying where you are not allowed peer age passengers in the car.
Chris Benstead:If you break that rule, you'll get six points on your license which will then mean you obviously need to, you know, get disqualified and retake your test.
Chris Benstead:So those are the only three points on the RAC's one.
Chris Benstead:And the it will only apply to 17 to 19 year olds.
Chris Benstead:It won't go 20 or above.
Chris Benstead:So if you passed your test two weeks before your 20th birthday, that graduated driving license would only apply for two weeks.
Chris Benstead:So just on those points, Chris, what are your thoughts?
Terry Cook:Well, that's good because most people can't get a test inside of that timescale anyway.
Terry Cook:So anyway, sorry, I couldn't resist.
Terry Cook:No, I think they're good substantiated evidenced points that we've seen in other countries.
Terry Cook:We've seen the support for them.
Terry Cook:I'm not surprised.
Terry Cook:They're the things that you were put on the table.
Terry Cook:The response to most is going to be, you know, we can't stop people doing this or it's going to inconvenience people and there's going to be exceptions.
Terry Cook:Yes, there will be.
Terry Cook:But if it makes things safer in the way that it should, then absolutely I'd rather have more of a focus on education in there.
Terry Cook:That's the bit I think is missing.
Terry Cook:We've got experience and we've got age and we know that those are the weighted things from scientific point of view, they're the things that are proven.
Terry Cook:But I think that's because education hasn't really had the opportunity to prove itself.
Terry Cook:So I think, you know, I'd like to see a bit more of education.
Chris Benstead:In there, I think on both parts of looking for experience, looking at experience over education.
Chris Benstead:And I just, I think it's interesting that they've kept it as simple as possible.
Chris Benstead:And the thing is, right what the big thing they're saying, because I spoke to all this box about this, you can actually I, I grilled her a bit about it actually.
Chris Benstead:It's coming out on the Driving Instructions Division Zero podcast on the first of November, because it was the, the six month trading period.
Chris Benstead:Like what does that mean?
Chris Benstead:Is it there going to be any mandatory aspects of, of training with a professional or will it just be with mom and dad?
Chris Benstead:Do they have to train for six months, or is it.
Chris Benstead:Could you, like, do something at the first week and then not do anything for three months, then catch up then?
Chris Benstead:And.
Chris Benstead:And there's.
Chris Benstead:There's this massive gray area that she kind of struggled to.
Chris Benstead:To answer.
Chris Benstead:And I think the reason they struggled to answer that.
Chris Benstead:I think there's two reasons.
Chris Benstead:One is there isn't a good answer at the minute.
Chris Benstead:The second is, and it's kind of touching on what you said, this needs to go to government, needs to go to Parliament, which will be debating, it'll be changed.
Chris Benstead:So the big thing they're doing is saying, let's get this really simple, basic one in front of Parliament.
Chris Benstead:We get this out and then they can add stuff on, then they can change it or amend it as we go.
Chris Benstead:But this is the best opportunity to get something like this in, rather than adding all these seven, eight, nine different layers.
Terry Cook:Yeah, I think, you know, it's one step at a time, isn't it, getting it out there.
Terry Cook:We haven't had these proposals in this format before.
Terry Cook:Yeah, it's been spoken about.
Terry Cook:I've sat in loads of rooms talking about it.
Terry Cook:Mainly the biggest issue we used to have was no one knew what G did, what graduated driving licensing was.
Terry Cook:They couldn't agree on what it was.
Terry Cook:So, you know, it got the baby thrown out with the bathwater.
Terry Cook:I think from an driving instructor's perspective, we should probably be more on the side of the RAC proposals.
Terry Cook:I think they're probably more in line with us being a benefit, from what I've seen of the differences.
Terry Cook:And again, we need to know more, but they're slightly more in favor of the training side of things, the logbook side of things, where if it goes in our favor and there's always a, you know, you open that bottle, you never know what's going to come out.
Terry Cook:I think they'd probably be more in keeping with what we would be looking for as businesses that deliver driver training.
Terry Cook:And my only other thing is a total throwaway, but it jumped out at me as a thought, was I'm not convinced that G plates are a good idea because of the young person's interpretation of being a G is probably.
Terry Cook:Would probably make them out to be a.
Terry Cook:The opposite of what they're trying to achieve in some ways.
Terry Cook:And so often we're driven by culture.
Terry Cook:So I.
Terry Cook:I just wonder, just to have thrown it out there and, you know, at least have it on record so that I can refer back to it and say, well, I did say that.
Terry Cook:Yeah, I'm I'm not quite convinced of the choice of G plate.
Chris Benstead:Yeah, I mean, just.
Chris Benstead:Just for anyone listening that won't know the G plate has been put forward by the AA as replacement of an L plate, if you like that you need on for six months after you.
Chris Benstead:You pass.
Terry Cook:It's a formal version of the P plate which was always a.
Terry Cook:A watered down.
Terry Cook:Have it to make yourself feel better.
Chris Benstead:I don't think that's in the IRC proposal.
Chris Benstead:I could be wrong on that, but I don't think it's.
Chris Benstead:And I think it's naias and.
Chris Benstead:Yeah, and I'm not the biggest fan of that.
Chris Benstead:I think.
Chris Benstead:I don't know.
Chris Benstead:I don't know.
Chris Benstead:I don't.
Chris Benstead:This is what I've been pondering a lot about because I've always pondered people.
Chris Benstead:It's.
Chris Benstead:And I don't think there's a definitive yes or no to them.
Chris Benstead:I think it's Even worming Guy McMillan's in the comments.
Chris Benstead:So people.
Chris Benstead:It's already make new drivers around Leicester.
Chris Benstead:Leicester a target for the local idiots.
Chris Benstead:And I get it, but do they.
Chris Benstead:I think this is a genuine thing.
Chris Benstead:How.
Chris Benstead:How do we know that I'm not picking on Guy for this?
Chris Benstead:Because that used to be in my trailer form?
Chris Benstead:Like, well, how do I know that?
Chris Benstead:Is that just me thinking if I was a knob Ed, that's what I would do.
Terry Cook:But it makes you stand out, doesn't it?
Terry Cook:It's like absolutely everything.
Terry Cook:If you have an identifying factor, then it gives the opportunity for you to be targeted because of it.
Terry Cook:Whether that be, you know, race, religion, politics, whatever it is.
Terry Cook:If there's someone that takes a dislike to it.
Terry Cook:And the problem is that if you've got someone who is lacking in skills because of lack of experience or whatever it might be, that's putting them at risk.
Terry Cook:I've always said to people, if you insist on P plates because I'm on record as not being a fan, stick one on the back.
Terry Cook:Don't stick it on the front because then at least if something goes wrong, the people behind you will know why.
Terry Cook:And you know that make you feel better, but you won't have people driving at you in quite the same way.
Chris Benstead:I think the last thing I want to touch on this, unless anything you want to add is.
Chris Benstead:You mentioned it before about the police Nova.
Chris Benstead:There's a lot of arguments against graduated driver licensing and I think a lot of them are valid arguments.
Chris Benstead:However, the police never isn't one of them for me and I really believe this.
Chris Benstead:I think that Just doesn't hold up.
Chris Benstead:Because if you're going to say that something's difficult to police or who's going to police, then we might as well legalize burglary because it's hard to police.
Chris Benstead:So therefore let's just legalize it then it's a not a problem.
Chris Benstead:The way it would be police is twofold.
Chris Benstead:So first of all you would have the parents that will be police in the same way parents police their kids.
Chris Benstead:Now, not all of them, not everyone brilliantly, not everyone perfectly.
Chris Benstead:But if parents knew that six months after passing your test when you're 17 years old, you are not allowed, you know, your mates in the car, the parents would enforce that in the same way the parents would likely enforce their kids to stop them stealing.
Chris Benstead:So that is one aspect, but also the same way they, police enforce stuff now, you know, and I think this is part of maybe this is actually the one good thing about a G plate.
Chris Benstead:If you had a G plate on there and the police car behind sees there's two young lads in it, well, they know there's somewhat wrong there because they shouldn't be two young lads in that car.
Chris Benstead:Apart from, and I need to say this because people don't realize it, apart from the exemptions, there are exemptions that can be made in certain circumstances for graduating driver licenses.
Chris Benstead:So I just wanted to throw that out there.
Chris Benstead:Anything you want to touch on before I move on, Chris?
Terry Cook:Yeah, and I don't know because I haven't seen it, but in there.
Terry Cook:But there's always the family argument as well, isn't there?
Terry Cook:That if it was, there's situations when you can have that set up that would potentially otherwise not be allowed.
Terry Cook:A bit like the smoking law, which always makes me laugh.
Terry Cook:17 year old driver can smoke all they like with 18 year olds in the car.
Terry Cook:But the 18 year olds aren't allowed to smoke because there's a 17 year old driving and you know, you get those, they're gonna happen.
Terry Cook:Driving instructors are gonna have a field day because they love it, they love an exception.
Terry Cook:But you know, there's a roundabout near my house that that doesn't work at.
Terry Cook:So yeah, with, with all of that, it's, you know, I think there's gonna be those things, there's gonna be the reasons not to.
Terry Cook:But actually the, the thing about the policing is I think burglary is a really good thing.
Terry Cook:We need to lock our own front doors.
Terry Cook:That's where we start.
Terry Cook:And then we need to look after each other, you know, so, so neighborhood watch if you like.
Terry Cook:And by having those rules there we feel more judged, we, we feel more protected and therefore it should work and I'm, I'm all for it.
Terry Cook:I just am always hesitant when we start saying set number of hours or set amount of time or those kind of things that sometimes we wish for it and then we regret it later.
Chris Benstead:Chris Spencer quote I think burglary is a really good thing.
Chris Benstead:I'm very much forward, looking forward to going live on YouTube.
Chris Benstead:Let's, let's move on then.
Chris Benstead:Let's take a moment to set the table.
Chris Benstead:Chris, do you want to take a moment to tell everyone who you are and what you offer?
Terry Cook:So I driving instructor without a car because I am the theory specialist and I can help with all things theory from on pretty much any license.
Terry Cook:I was helping someone with motorbikes the other day.
Terry Cook:I don't have a motorbike license but I know lots about it now the theory test is the theory test and I am the co founder of the DITC, the driving instructor and trainers collective theditc.co.uk which is where you head if you have a driving instructor question or need and we can help sort that out and point you in the right direction.
Chris Benstead:Excellent.
Chris Benstead:And you are listening to instructor podcast Green Room Edition.
Chris Benstead:And to find out more from anything I do head to the website www.theinstructorpodcast.com over there you can find the entire back catalog of episodes we've got which is an absolute ton of free resources, resources, an absolute goldmine of knowledge and inspiration and wisdom in there.
Chris Benstead:And then you'll find also further details on the membership which starts at £10amonth and there's two tiers to that and there's a whole host of content and heap information and gold dust and stuff over there as well.
Chris Benstead:Including today as we're recording released a branded new episode of Andy McFarland of Bright Coaching and we were talking about getting back to basics and making sure that we are actually teaching the basics on lessons and not pushing ahead too quickly.
Chris Benstead:Really interesting conversation with Andy there and that starts well get a week's free trial to go and see if you like it or not.
Chris Benstead:They find all that@www.theinstructorpodcast.com but there was a bit more news this this month Chris, because I kind of touched on it earlier in a jokey way which is that the the One show did do a bit of an expose on specific driving school and I was debating whether to name the school but it's on the BBC So that's going to be more public than me.
Chris Benstead:So whatever, you know, was a five day driving school I think it's called.
Chris Benstead:And yeah, basically they were.
Chris Benstead:Well what they found out was that try to be polite, they were misrepresenting things in that they were saying they gave the impression that learners could book with them, do a week's course to have the test at the end.
Chris Benstead:Then when it came to that week they would find out A they didn't have a test and B there was often, not, maybe I shouldn't say often in the examples provided by the BBC, often not an instructor available and then there were other bits and bobs as well around website images being incorrect and they're using different past pictures from other instructors on their website and all that kind of stuff.
Chris Benstead:And I'll be honest, I did debate for a long time whether to actually discusses in here because one thing I'm not a fan of is public shaming and I do not want this and I'm sure you wouldn't take it this way Chris, but I'm saying why can't I talk?
Chris Benstead:Chris, I sure you wouldn't take it this way but for anyone listening, I'm clarifying.
Chris Benstead:I don't want it to be a public shaming session.
Chris Benstead:I wouldn't want that done to me and I wouldn't want it done to anyone else.
Chris Benstead:But I think it's important to highlight the dangers of running your own driving school and not running it effectively and not be even in a professional manner.
Chris Benstead:So I think I'm just going to start off by throwing to you for your thoughts on this Chris.
Terry Cook:I think that's the really important point and I also think that as fellow business people we should all remember every time that there is a person behind the company because I think that gets forgotten as well.
Terry Cook:So you know, I always think that's something I try to remember.
Terry Cook:But we need to be responsible for our own choices and you know, it is.
Terry Cook:I thought it was fascinating that they use reverse image searches to track back to where the, the past pictures had come from and such.
Terry Cook:You know, they, they clearly did a bit of journalism on it.
Terry Cook:The problem is it gets turned into, you know, pop culture TV and it depends on, on how they choose to represent things.
Terry Cook:So we don't know.
Terry Cook:But talking broader rather than talking about that company intensive providers have been doing exactly what they've described for ages.
Terry Cook:We've, we've all dealt with it.
Terry Cook:I had two text messages today going we've got a pupil, can you help?
Terry Cook:And Another one which was an instructor who's trying to help his friend who's done an intensive course, didn't leave the village, thought that they, by the end of it they were going to be sorted end of a five day course and can't drive, didn't have a test at the end of it anyway, instructor turned up.
Terry Cook:So you know, those are the, it's not exclusive to that company and you know, that situation.
Terry Cook:I felt a little bit sorry for them to be honest, because they were the one that got singled out and we could have probably given them between us another 20 names of companies that are probably just as bad or you know, in, in potentially different ways as those things that they highlighted.
Terry Cook:So yeah, I, I'm, I will just clarify my position.
Terry Cook:Not a fan of intensives unless they're being used as kind of cram revision once you've done the learning.
Terry Cook:For all those reasons we've just mentioned on graduated driving licensing, they, I think they go absolutely against it.
Terry Cook:I, yeah, have no love loss for them at all.
Terry Cook:I feel sorry for people that I believe misled into thinking that there's something there, there's a way of doing it.
Terry Cook:And I would also say that's not just learners.
Terry Cook:People who are becoming driving instructors fall into the same trap of being sold a week long course and told, yeah, go on, we'll teach you to, you know, to be a driving instructor inside that time as well.
Chris Benstead:I'm not a big fan of intensive courses I think for all the reasons you've described.
Chris Benstead:I think the one that that's always bothered me is the GDL aspect, the learning time period.
Chris Benstead:It's like, I'm sure you've had this, Chris.
Chris Benstead:I'm sure every instructor listeners had this where students come back to them after a lesson and said, oh, I was on bus this week and this thing happened, I was in this car and this thing happened.
Chris Benstead:Well, if you're doing a intensive course, you're taking away the opportunity.
Chris Benstead:You know, if someone learns over three, four, five, six months they've got all the opportunity as a, as a passenger of a taxi, of a passenger of a car, as a passenger of a bus to see these situations and that helps them become thinking drivers because as we all hopefully are starting to realize, it's not just about being able to move a steering wheel or clutch control.
Chris Benstead:And Guy said early on in the comments that, you know, this six month learning period would be the end of intensive courses and potentially I think they would have to change because I've done one, I provided One intensive thing over in the past, but it was very different.
Chris Benstead:And it was at the student's request.
Chris Benstead:And they came to me and they said, can we do 30 hours across a week and then one lesson every week up to my test, which is about three months away.
Chris Benstead:And I thought, yeah, that sounds fun.
Chris Benstead:Hated it, hated it.
Chris Benstead:You know, I got to day two, when I were done, I don't want to see this person ever again.
Chris Benstead:That's not a slight on them, that's a slight on me.
Chris Benstead:I can't spend time with people.
Chris Benstead:But it was a novel idea, you know, doing that big block first and then rolling on.
Chris Benstead:So there would be ways around it in that sense, but even that, that's giving that, that time period, that learning experience in between the lessons in it.
Terry Cook:Yeah.
Terry Cook:And I've done one where I split it with another instructor.
Terry Cook:I did the mornings, he did the afternoons.
Terry Cook:We did two hours each.
Terry Cook:We did that across a two week period.
Terry Cook:And for that pupil, awesome.
Terry Cook:It really worked.
Terry Cook:And I'm still in touch with him.
Terry Cook:I hear from him he's brilliant at referring people to us because we didn't say no.
Terry Cook:We said, well, how can we make it work?
Terry Cook:You know, it was one of those.
Terry Cook:And still in touch, still refers people across.
Terry Cook:And he's the one that tells them, don't do intensive.
Terry Cook:But he had a work requirement for it and we managed to accommodate.
Terry Cook:And yeah, it, you know, it worked for him.
Terry Cook:He, he was an exception in my opinion.
Terry Cook:And would I do it again if the same thing came up?
Terry Cook:Probably not.
Terry Cook:It was one of those where I kind of felt, you know, he's gonna do it anyway.
Terry Cook:I'd rather he did it with someone where an instructor does turn up and where there is a test at the end and everything else.
Terry Cook:You know, it was very much based around that.
Terry Cook:Doing it with another instructor was really interesting, you know, and, and I think that that's another aspect that we don't necessarily tend to be a single instructor to a single pupil.
Terry Cook:And actually mixing it up a bit was interesting.
Terry Cook:So, you know, not all bad things come out of these things.
Terry Cook:But the, it is misleading, isn't it?
Terry Cook:Misleading is a really fair word because they, they would always say in the small print, you're not guaranteed.
Terry Cook:We might tell you you're not ready.
Terry Cook:But it makes it sound like that's the exception and not the rule.
Terry Cook:And I know I've had conversations with some companies where you're almost encouraged as an instructor to take them on because you can pull the plug at the end.
Terry Cook:That it's in the terms and conditions and it's all right, go and teach them for the week and then go, you're not ready and you need another however many weeks or whatever it is because we haven't got a test anyway.
Terry Cook:And.
Terry Cook:And, you know, it's.
Terry Cook:It's not the nice face of the industry.
Terry Cook:Yeah, it doesn't work for me.
Chris Benstead:No.
Chris Benstead:And that idea is.
Chris Benstead:I don't know, it doesn't sit well with me that obviously you need to have it there that you can, you know, say at the end you can't do it.
Chris Benstead:But like you said, it's almost sold on that sometimes.
Chris Benstead:Oh, don't worry if they're not ready for doing it, I'm like, yeah, but that shouldn't be the goal.
Chris Benstead:That.
Chris Benstead:And it feels like that, like you said, like they make it the goal.
Chris Benstead:But I think lifting up and looking from a higher viewpoint from this, we very, very rarely see anything positive about driving instructors by anyone else.
Chris Benstead:You know, we see the stuff that we might talk about.
Chris Benstead:We see, you know, Driving Instructor Day March.
Chris Benstead:I forgot what day driving Shutter these.
Chris Benstead:It's a date in March.
Chris Benstead:It's about the 20th, something like that.
Chris Benstead:And yeah, I'm thinking back to the last driving shot today where there were other companies that were starting to shout in a positive way about driving instructors, but we rarely see it.
Chris Benstead:But we do see this sort of stuff.
Chris Benstead:You know, it wasn't that long ago Theresa May was still in Parliament talking about how, you know, they need to do more checks on driving instructors because they're all, you know, inappropriate with the students.
Chris Benstead:She phrased it better than I did.
Chris Benstead:So I don't think the public, and I think we all know this, the public generally doesn't have the best perception of driving instructors.
Chris Benstead:Do you think this makes it worse?
Chris Benstead:Do we all get tired with the same brush?
Chris Benstead:Potentially?
Terry Cook:Normally I'd say yes.
Terry Cook:They didn't phrase it as driving instructors that were the issue.
Terry Cook:I think actually on this occasion.
Terry Cook:Occasion.
Terry Cook:Oh, it's catching.
Terry Cook:It's been a long month, hasn't it?
Terry Cook:This is the thing.
Terry Cook:It's getting dark out there on this occasion.
Terry Cook:I think actually instructors weren't the target of the article.
Terry Cook:It was a company providing a service without driving instructors that were.
Terry Cook:We were almost victim of as well, because.
Terry Cook:Well, no, we were being victim of in the case that they reported because they phoned driving instructors, said that they were phoning from Watchdog and said, your photo's being used.
Terry Cook:Do you know anything about it?
Terry Cook:I blooming say no as well.
Terry Cook:So I wonder how accurate that is.
Terry Cook:Especially when these companies farm out work, you know, you might not realize you're doing it for that company.
Terry Cook:You're just taking on a pupil that's being offered, you know.
Terry Cook:So that bit just I wasn't sure about.
Terry Cook:But I think as instructors we actually escaped fairly unscathed.
Terry Cook:Probably benefited in the long run and so did road safety.
Terry Cook:So I, I feel sorry for James because he's, you know, was, was the one that didn't on this occasion.
Chris Benstead:I think a half agree what you say.
Chris Benstead:I agree in this prospect of road safety is benefited by this now coming out.
Chris Benstead:And as you said, five day have come out and said they are making changes as a result of this, which is definitely a good thing.
Chris Benstead:So that's going to be a good thing.
Chris Benstead:And I, I think that some instructors will benefit as a direct consequence of this.
Chris Benstead:But I do still think there's a lot of people out there that won't see it that way.
Chris Benstead:That WhatsApp program, go buddy driving the instructors, you know, my one canceled the other day.
Chris Benstead:He must be in on this game as well.
Chris Benstead:And I do we run that risk.
Chris Benstead:You know, we see it all the time when someone commits a crime and they've got a certain characteristic that gets reported, then all of a sudden all those people with that characteristic are all a criminal.
Chris Benstead:And you know, I think that, that we.
Chris Benstead:That comes up.
Chris Benstead:But I want to talk a bit more about professionalism.
Chris Benstead:Professionalism specifically in a little while ago when I released my, my batch of episodes with Laura Morris.
Chris Benstead:I spoke about it in quite a bit there.
Chris Benstead:Really good episode.
Chris Benstead:Go back and check it out.
Chris Benstead:But I'm intrigued for you from your perspective, Chris, you work with a lot of instructors, a lot of different capacities.
Chris Benstead:Where do you see some of the big areas that driving instructors lack?
Terry Cook:Professionalism, it's, it's sadly quite a long list.
Terry Cook:So as the ditc, I'm often the one that gets phone calls.
Terry Cook:When instructors have got points on the license, the big one is the one that comes up the most because it's six points is touching a mobile phone.
Terry Cook:Yeah.
Terry Cook:And just to be clear, because it's amazing how many people don't realize specifically what it is, it can be in a holder.
Terry Cook:Putting your finger on that phone is now an illegal act and it's six points on your license.
Terry Cook:And we're getting a lot of police officers standing by traffic lights and knocking on the window saying right, pull over.
Terry Cook:So, you know, I think that is blatant and they all regret it.
Terry Cook:They've all justified it because they feel that they're doing it safely.
Terry Cook:They're sat at traffic light.
Terry Cook:Right.
Terry Cook:And I do get it.
Terry Cook:Absolutely.
Terry Cook:And you know, I, I deal with all those calls without any judgment because that's not, not what I'm there for.
Terry Cook:I'm there to help them understand what the process is and where they're at.
Terry Cook:Are they going to lose their livelihood?
Terry Cook:Six points is enough for them to take you off the register.
Terry Cook:So five or more is when they start looking at it.
Terry Cook:So you've got those things then.
Chris Benstead:Let me just touch on that first because I think that's a really interesting one to start with because I think it was last year I wrote an article for Good Motor magazine.
Chris Benstead:It was titled how do you choose which law to break?
Chris Benstead:Because if it's okay to break one, then if it's okay for you to break a law about touching your phone because you disagree with that law, then it's okay for me to punch you in the face because I disagree with that law.
Terry Cook:Yes.
Chris Benstead:You can't, you can't pick and choose.
Chris Benstead:If you got a problem with a law, you either need to do something about it, which would be taken up of your local counselor, parliamentarium, whatever it is, and actually start campaigning against that law, or move to somewhere where there's not that law.
Chris Benstead:Well, that law doesn't apply.
Chris Benstead:There's probably other rules as well.
Chris Benstead:I like to go to extremes, you know that.
Chris Benstead:But it's.
Chris Benstead:How do you choose which lawyer, bruh.
Terry Cook:But, but I, I think you do, don't you?
Terry Cook:I think there's this thing of why is the law there?
Terry Cook:Because driving a car while using a mobile phone is proven to be dangerous.
Terry Cook:If I am parked at the side of the road on a cold day, is it okay for me to have the engine running while I'm on my phone?
Terry Cook:Because the law says it's not.
Terry Cook:If I am on a, you know, on, on a, on a phone call and I'm going to get out of the car.
Terry Cook:Some cars, you know, the engine will be running.
Terry Cook:If you turn the engine off, it might kill the phone.
Terry Cook:You know, those technicalities are there, so it ends up being a bit gray.
Terry Cook:It doesn't change the law.
Terry Cook:And that's the problem, isn't it?
Terry Cook:Is our perception is what's different.
Chris Benstead:It's not gray, though.
Chris Benstead:That's the thing.
Chris Benstead:Like you say, it doesn't change the law.
Chris Benstead:The law is black and white.
Chris Benstead:You can't touch that, that form.
Chris Benstead:The issue is, are we choosing to break that law or not?
Chris Benstead:And if you choose to break that law, you cannot then complain about the.
Terry Cook:Consequences to, to look at it something else in our world, stop signs.
Terry Cook:So would you let your pupil break the law?
Terry Cook:You know, because if you let them run a stop sign without a full stop, then they have.
Terry Cook:Now it gets really difficult.
Terry Cook:I have a massive issue with stop signs and I 100 know why they're there and I support that.
Terry Cook:You know, I recognize the need for it.
Terry Cook:But there's that rolling stop where do you know what they're safer than if they'd actually stopped and not looked?
Terry Cook:Because what they've really, really, really crept in.
Terry Cook:I'm like as any slower, they'd have stopped.
Terry Cook:We've all seen it.
Terry Cook:We've all had tests fail for it.
Terry Cook:Oh, doesn't it get just.
Terry Cook:It grates a little bit.
Terry Cook:Surely some laws are more, more solid than others.
Chris Benstead:I mean, look, I'm not saying that I agree with the laws here, it's just to clarify because I'm sure there's some laws I disagree with.
Chris Benstead:But what I'm saying is we know what the laws are now if you don't know that law, you do.
Chris Benstead:Now if you don't know that law, you do it.
Chris Benstead:Then that's a slightly different scenario.
Chris Benstead:But it's that idea of how do we choose.
Chris Benstead:So like you just said about the stop sign.
Chris Benstead:Yeah, probably.
Chris Benstead:I, I probably have allowed a student, not dangerously, but to almost stop, you know, like you said, the rolling stop.
Chris Benstead:And is that breaking the law?
Chris Benstead:Well, yes.
Chris Benstead:So I've allowed that student to break the law.
Chris Benstead:So therefore I have chosen that You've.
Terry Cook:Also broken the law.
Terry Cook:Yeah, you've permitted them to do so, which is a law in itself.
Chris Benstead:But that's what I'm saying.
Chris Benstead:We're choosing that.
Chris Benstead:So if there'd have been a police car behind me, and I'd like to think I'd have seen them, you know, but if I did in a police car behind me, then, then I could.
Chris Benstead:They could have been in problems for that.
Chris Benstead:Probably not.
Chris Benstead:They wouldn't realize.
Chris Benstead:You get my point.
Chris Benstead:So it's, it's just a really kind of.
Chris Benstead:It's just how do you choose which law to break?
Chris Benstead:And then when you choose to break that law, well, unfortunately, the consequences are yours.
Terry Cook:Yeah.
Terry Cook:And, and you know, going back to professionalism as well, if you don't know that that law has changed, I judge you more for that than choosing to break it.
Terry Cook:In a way, I think as an instructor you should know that I've still, you know, got this feeling yet to be proven that there's instructors that don't know about the H1 changes and, you know, giving way to pedestrians when you turn into side roads.
Terry Cook:I'm sure that there's still some out there hiding in a cave somewhere.
Terry Cook:Now, you know, some of that is about how we broadcast and shout about things, but they need to be listening on the other end, as we know, you know, telling them doesn't work.
Terry Cook:It's got to be a two way process and, you know, linking it back to professionalism rather than legality.
Terry Cook:I would definitely judge those instructors more in that way.
Terry Cook:I say that as someone who is more than happy to go.
Terry Cook:Fair enough.
Terry Cook:You don't know, let's educate you.
Terry Cook:I'm all about that.
Terry Cook:But you should know, you should be aware of those things and you should be engaging.
Terry Cook:From, you know, my personal belief structure about what it is to be professional.
Chris Benstead:I think I agree.
Chris Benstead:I think the issue I've got is I try not to be judgy and it's really difficult because I am, I'm human, I can't help it.
Chris Benstead:But with this sort of stuff, I do.
Chris Benstead:Look, I think everyone's on a different chapter.
Chris Benstead:There'd have been a period when I, admittedly when I first started, but in a period where I first started, where I want to pick up on that because I wasn't in the circles, I wasn't listening, I wasn't trying, and that's on me.
Chris Benstead:You know, I'd hold my hands up and say that.
Chris Benstead:But everyone's on a different chapter in it.
Chris Benstead:You know, I think there's times where we go, all right, that person's not on this chapter yet.
Chris Benstead:Yes, I'm gonna judge that, but I'm not gonna judge it overly harshly because people make mistakes and people are human.
Terry Cook:But you, you say it's on you.
Terry Cook:And I, I agree to that point.
Terry Cook:But I'm assuming that means your trainer told you these things and you chose to ignore them.
Terry Cook:They told you where to find the information.
Terry Cook:They told you about associations, they told you about the opportunities that are out there.
Terry Cook:There's way more than when we qualified, including the ones we've created ourselves because they weren't bloody there in the first place.
Terry Cook:So, you know, no, they didn't.
Terry Cook:And it's still going on.
Terry Cook:Most trainers are not informing their trainees about where to find more information and a lot of cases because it's going to put them out of a job potentially.
Terry Cook:It's all for those reasons.
Terry Cook:And franchises won't educate their franchisees because if we let them know about the real world, there can be an issue.
Terry Cook:Professionalism needs to be across the board, doesn't it?
Terry Cook:It's not just an individual thing.
Terry Cook:And this is where potentially, you know, articles like the one on Watchdog damage us all on a professional level and we should all care about that.
Terry Cook:But we're not police officers, so should.
Terry Cook:Should we then go round to use the colloquial, grassing everybody up?
Terry Cook:You know, if you see a driving instructor without a badge in their window, should you take a photo and send it to the dvsa?
Chris Benstead:Yeah, we've got an air freshener on the mirror.
Terry Cook:Yeah.
Terry Cook:Don't you dare smash the wind.
Terry Cook:No, no, don't.
Chris Benstead:It's live on YouTube.
Chris Benstead:But I.
Chris Benstead:I agree and I don't want to go too much further down this rabbit hole.
Chris Benstead:I just think it's interesting, that idea of how do we choose which law to break and then when we choose that, we have to be aware of.
Chris Benstead:Right.
Chris Benstead:Well, I have to be ready to deal with the consequences now.
Chris Benstead:So I just think it's.
Chris Benstead:It's interesting.
Chris Benstead:Is that like you say with the mobile phone or the stop sign or the air freshener, you know, it's like weighing up the pros and cons, you know, is.
Chris Benstead:Is changing my Spotify playlist while I'm parked, but the lights, is it actually worth it?
Chris Benstead:Or is it worth me setting off five minutes earlier so I can pull over if I need to?
Chris Benstead:Is it.
Chris Benstead:Is that air freshener?
Chris Benstead:I mean, you're not going to get pulled for it, you know, like you've said, you see people go and test for it, but is it worth it?
Chris Benstead:You know, and for some people, it is.
Chris Benstead:They make the choice, but then.
Chris Benstead:Right, too far, going off too far.
Chris Benstead:Now let's bring it back to professionalism.
Chris Benstead:So that's the first one you mentioned, Chris, the idea of, like punching a license, breaking the law, that aspect.
Chris Benstead:What other areas of professionalism are driving instructors weak at?
Chris Benstead:Not all, just to clarify.
Chris Benstead:Just not.
Terry Cook:No, just.
Terry Cook:Just as an industry, which things do it?
Terry Cook:You know, I think cpd, we're getting better at whatever you.
Terry Cook:Is CPD to you.
Terry Cook:I don't really care as long as you're looking to improve your skills, because if you're not, you're missing out.
Terry Cook:You know, I just think that side of things, the other one is the other one that DVSA get all the complaints about, which is customer service.
Terry Cook:You don't have to be nice to everybody, but you be professional to them, you know, it's it's the Terry Cook, don't be a dick thing.
Terry Cook:You know, basically, that's all the DBSA expect.
Terry Cook:And that doesn't include, you know, they will support you.
Terry Cook:If you're saying you're not ready for test.
Terry Cook:They've said that categorically on record.
Terry Cook:Be careful, it might change next week because that happens sometimes with dvsa, because they've said other things on record as well.
Terry Cook:But at the moment they are supporting us.
Terry Cook:If we say you're not ready, that's not good enough for a complaint that won't hold water.
Terry Cook:They support your professionalism.
Terry Cook:So when you say to them you're not ready, do it professionally.
Terry Cook:Don't do it the day before a test unless you really have to, and then do it, that's fine.
Terry Cook:But don't, you know, don't build them up and say, oh, it's fine, I'll get you ready in a week.
Terry Cook:And then, you know, at the end of it, pull the plug.
Terry Cook:If there are ways to prevent it, put in measures along the way to help judge.
Terry Cook:Make use of, you know, digital systems that can help you track better.
Terry Cook:Because as we get more data for pupils and development, we'll be able to develop better ways of identifying the successful ones.
Terry Cook:You know, by working together and working with these kind of approaches, we will all be more professional because we'll be better at the job.
Terry Cook:And then, you know, just because it's okay to swear doesn't mean you should swear at them.
Terry Cook:I, you know, I have no issue with swearing, but very rarely have I sworn at a pupil unless they're a sweary pupil.
Terry Cook:I've had a couple of builders that if I didn't swear, you know, they wouldn't have listened.
Terry Cook:You know, engage on their level, but don't swear at them.
Terry Cook:There's no need.
Terry Cook:And say, just thinking about your text message, some of the ones I see on Facebook just, I genuinely cringe and you just think, well, if you hadn't written that, you could have turned that around.
Terry Cook:You've created the problem, now live with it.
Terry Cook:So I think those kind of things, they're important.
Terry Cook:Just a bit of decency and understanding inside of what we do.
Chris Benstead:Do you think there's a stubbornness almost sometimes around this stuff?
Chris Benstead:Now, admittedly, this doesn't happen to me often, but when it does, I do find it annoying.
Chris Benstead:So I will all, not just before I start, but, you know, when someone texts you and you don't reply and then you get a text 10 minutes later, that's a question mark.
Chris Benstead:It's like, I see some instructors on Facebook having an absolute meltdown over that.
Chris Benstead:And I think just to reply, you know, it's not the end of the world.
Chris Benstead:What they've done is followed up.
Chris Benstead:Now, whether that they've done it in the most polite way or not, it's almost irrelevant.
Chris Benstead:You know, you could have a chat with them.
Chris Benstead:You don't have to have a meltdown over it.
Chris Benstead:Like I said, it does knock me again.
Chris Benstead:Rarely happens, admittedly, but when it's like, that's annoying.
Chris Benstead:But I can either throw a tantrum and go and post about it on Facebook or I can reply, yes, I like the.
Terry Cook:They won't leave a message, but they'll phone you three times in quick succession because clearly you deliberately ignored them the first time.
Chris Benstead:Oh, I do.
Chris Benstead:I do not answer the phone.
Chris Benstead:I am that age.
Chris Benstead:I'm a 90s kid.
Chris Benstead:Right?
Chris Benstead:Phone doesn't get answered.
Chris Benstead:You ring me, I'll text you and ask what you want.
Terry Cook:So, yeah, it's those things, but it's how you do it.
Terry Cook:I've started to.
Terry Cook:It's a while back now, but I.
Terry Cook:I will regularly say to people I'm really bad at.
Terry Cook:And just to clarify, not in a car, right?
Terry Cook:During a lesson, something pops up on my screen.
Terry Cook:I'll kind of flick it and then flick.
Terry Cook:Flick it off.
Terry Cook:If we're busy doing something, you know, the pupil's busy working on something and I'll just quick glance in case it's the next pupil canceling or whatever it might be, and then I know where I'm at.
Terry Cook:Not in a car, okay?
Terry Cook:But I don't forget that.
Terry Cook:So I actively say to people, I have no issue with you chasing me up.
Terry Cook:If you think I've missed your message, if you think I've forgotten to get back to you, I'm going to take shared responsibility on that with you.
Terry Cook:Please do chase me out.
Terry Cook:I'm asking you to.
Terry Cook:And then when they do, I don't care because they're doing what I've asked.
Terry Cook:It doesn't bother me.
Terry Cook:They can send as many question marks as they like.
Terry Cook:That's fine, because it's me that didn't get back to them.
Terry Cook:Bit of personal responsibility.
Chris Benstead:It's that stubbornness.
Chris Benstead:And I don't know if I.
Chris Benstead:Stubborn is the right word, but that thing of this thing's annoyed me, therefore it's the end of the world.
Chris Benstead:And, you know, Guy McMillan just made the comment there.
Chris Benstead:Teenagers talk a different language and I hope this doesn't come across wrong is right.
Chris Benstead:They do but when I was a teenager, I spoke a different language to my parents and I still speak a different language.
Chris Benstead:So now it's not.
Chris Benstead:I don't think it's a teenage thing.
Chris Benstead:I think it's a generational thing.
Chris Benstead:We speak a different language, the people 20 years before us.
Chris Benstead:So I go around and I'll see like my nephew, who's 19, yeah, 19 now, and he says stuff and I'm like, I haven't got a clue what you just asked me.
Chris Benstead:Can you say it again in old person, please?
Chris Benstead:And it takes Mick at me and we'll have like joke back and forth.
Chris Benstead:And that's what I'm liking.
Chris Benstead:My students, there are times I've got a message and I've sent back and said, yes, say it again.
Chris Benstead:And it's fun.
Chris Benstead:And because we do speak a different language.
Chris Benstead:So something that they could say to their friends, that would be hilarious or make sense, they could send to me and I won't have a clue or it might annoy me.
Chris Benstead:Well, that's just a difference in language.
Chris Benstead:And I've got two choices there.
Chris Benstead:Now they have the same choice.
Chris Benstead:I can either get mad about it, throw a tantrum, go and post about it on Facebook, or I can adapt.
Chris Benstead:And that adapting could be trying to work out what they're saying.
Chris Benstead:It could be texting back, say, yeah, I don't know what that means.
Chris Benstead:Say it again, please, an old person or whatever, or anywhere in between.
Chris Benstead:But I.
Chris Benstead:It's that stubbornness, I think.
Chris Benstead:And the other one I'll give an example of and I'm really, really interested in your thoughts on this.
Chris Benstead:No shows, because I'm going to tell you what I do and I want an honest dissection of our high handle, no shots.
Chris Benstead:Because I am a driving instructor with a car who still delivers lessons.
Chris Benstead:I think you could just about almost consider me a part time now, just, I don't know, some weeks not.
Chris Benstead:I have a chat with the students on that first lesson.
Chris Benstead:We go through a couple little bit of policy bits and cancellation policy and whatnot.
Chris Benstead:And I'll say if I turn up and you don't come out after I say I'm usually early, five or 10 minutes early.
Chris Benstead:I'll text you when I get there.
Chris Benstead:If I'm not heard all just after starting time, I'll text you again.
Chris Benstead:If I've not heard out at that 10 minutes past, I will text you again and I will go, that's my starting point.
Chris Benstead:Now what I clarify is, do you want me to come on knock on your Door.
Chris Benstead:And I usually do this before I even go.
Chris Benstead:And first lesson when I get there, do you want me to come on knock your dog?
Chris Benstead:You want me to text you?
Chris Benstead:I did it once and lived in a flat.
Chris Benstead:I forgot to check beforehand, but either way.
Chris Benstead:So I'll just text anyway.
Chris Benstead:Another story, another day.
Chris Benstead:But I check first.
Chris Benstead:Do you want me to knock your door?
Chris Benstead:99% of the time I say no.
Chris Benstead:Then when I run through my policy, I say, if you're not there after 10 minutes, do you want me to knock on your door?
Chris Benstead:Some of them say yes, some of them say no.
Chris Benstead:And I make notes of that.
Chris Benstead:So if someone says, yeah, well, I'll go knock on my door, no problem.
Chris Benstead:Someone says, no, I won't.
Chris Benstead:The other thing I do is I'll often stay there because I've got a shed load of work.
Chris Benstead:I can be doing admin and stuff.
Chris Benstead:And I think, do you know what, I'm just going to hang about and I'll text them and they'll say, look, I might.
Chris Benstead:I know I for me, but I'm probably going to be here till about half past, so if you come out, be fine.
Chris Benstead:And there's a bit of me and I saw this on someone else say this on social media once and I admittedly don't do it, but I w.
Chris Benstead:I should I.
Chris Benstead:I believe that someone's paid for my time.
Chris Benstead:Two hours, let's say 10 till 12.
Chris Benstead:What does it matter if they come out at 10 or half past 11?
Chris Benstead:They're still paying for that time.
Chris Benstead:I could sit there listening to music, reading a book, you know, doing some yoga outside at car whatever for that time period and still get paid regardless, irrespective, especially if they're paid in advance because there's no issues there.
Chris Benstead:So I realize I kind of spoke a lot there, but I'd be interested in your thoughts on that.
Terry Cook:So if you see Terry doing the downward dog at the side of the road, it's because he's had a no show again.
Chris Benstead:Oh, it's usually in car park.
Chris Benstead:I do that.
Chris Benstead:I've learned not to do downward dog because your head's down and then you can't see the car coming into the bay.
Chris Benstead:And that's a bike.
Terry Cook:Someone parks a bike.
Chris Benstead:Yes.
Terry Cook:So yeah, you triggered me slightly with the whole front door thing because the other day I was on Facebook saying, you know, I would always go knock on the door to start with at least.
Terry Cook:But then you resolved it by saying that you would ask, so I'll let you off, just go Back to professionalism.
Terry Cook:I think there's that thing.
Terry Cook:It also means that especially if parents are paying, you could engage with them a bit and stuff like that is all again, different people's values, isn't it?
Terry Cook:A lot of the time the values are relevant.
Terry Cook:It's the reasoning, it's, it's, it's the why.
Terry Cook:You know, I've, I've always ended up having a better relationship regarding no, no shows and, and more importantly, charging for no shows or late cancellations.
Terry Cook:Not just not turning up, but the late cancellations.
Terry Cook:I've had a better relationship with the people where I do go and knock on the door and you know, and then when there's a problem, they're dealing with a human being that they know rather than that driving instructor they've never met.
Terry Cook:I first lesson always or have always given them a freebie and said, you can use this when you choose to, you get one free cancellation, that's it.
Terry Cook:After that you're being charged for everything.
Terry Cook:I work on a fair use policy.
Terry Cook:I will always try and be reasonable.
Terry Cook:But you get one free cancellation.
Terry Cook:And the funniest thing is when they go, I don't want to use my cancellation, I'm going to pay for this one because I might need it next month and I might not have the money.
Terry Cook:And they genuinely value it.
Terry Cook:And like everything, if we both know or if someone else is paying for the lessons, all of us know all the relevant parties, we know the rules, we understand them, we agree to them, then everything tends to go okay.
Terry Cook:So you know, when you don't know them, when it's not, you haven't made it clear, that's when it comes and bites you.
Terry Cook:And that's a massive part of professionalism, written terms and conditions.
Terry Cook:And in my business opinion, they have to be signed.
Terry Cook:And I know that lots of instructors won't ever have had them written.
Terry Cook:It's always verbal, it's all good.
Terry Cook:They've never had a problem in the hundred years that they've been a driving instructor.
Terry Cook:I don't care because that one occasion, when it is a problem, mine are signed, mine will stand up in court, not an issue, yours won't.
Terry Cook:So on that one occasion when you phone the ditc and you've never had some time signed terms and conditions, but you've, you know, criticize me for suggesting you should.
Terry Cook:That one occasion, I might kind of have to swallow a little bit hard before I try and be supportive, but that, you know, for me just making sure that we're doing things in a really open way where everyone knows what's you know what's what.
Terry Cook:And we've dotted the eyes, crossed the T's.
Terry Cook:Yeah, that's it.
Chris Benstead:That's the key thing.
Chris Benstead:And it almost doesn't matter what your rules are as long as the students aware of them.
Chris Benstead:I want to just talk a little bit about social media and professionalism on social media because I would potentially hazard a guess this is where drivers at their lead professional.
Chris Benstead:And I'm going to give a specific example here because I saw one not so long ago that annoyed the be Jesus out of me and it was someone I respect.
Terry Cook:What did I do?
Terry Cook:No, sorry, it's not me, is it?
Chris Benstead:No.
Chris Benstead:And I'm going to say, and it was someone I respect or someone I respected that.
Chris Benstead:That respect does diminish massively.
Chris Benstead:Yeah, got it in first place.
Chris Benstead:No, the.
Chris Benstead:It was a video and I'm going to try not to go too much detail because I don't want to drop anyone in it, but.
Chris Benstead:So I'll try and keep it generic.
Chris Benstead:But essentially they're in the passenger seat, learners in the driver seat driving along part cars on the right.
Chris Benstead:So the car coming towards them should have held back.
Chris Benstead:The car coming towards them kind of falls away through the learners not slowed down on approach and the instructor's not intervened at all until they've got there.
Chris Benstead:And then I don't know if the instructor slammed on or whether the student then slammed on, but it's quite an aggressive stop.
Chris Benstead:The instructor is then sort of gesticulating towards the other driver, not aggressively but pointing at them whilst they're talking to the student and saying they're in the wrong there.
Chris Benstead:They should have given way to you, but.
Chris Benstead:And I'm thinking that would have been the absolute golden opportunity to say to that student, do you reckon they're going to give away?
Chris Benstead:You know when you're that far from car because the car didn't probably look like it was going to give way.
Chris Benstead:Yeah.
Chris Benstead:So jerk.
Chris Benstead:And they're going to give way.
Chris Benstead:Student goes, yeah, I know, whatever.
Chris Benstead:And then you respond accordingly and that what a great learning opportunity for that.
Chris Benstead:Students then go, oh, not everyone's going to give way to me.
Chris Benstead:And best slow down just in case.
Chris Benstead:Oh, they should have gave way to me, but how easy did I make that?
Chris Benstead:Instead what they've got is they've been taught I can drive up, slam on, then shout with that person for being it wrong.
Chris Benstead:Now, I don't necessarily want to pinpoint that instructor, but it's just that sort of social Media content where you've got the opportunity to show how things should be done.
Chris Benstead:And this instructor fully knows how it should be done.
Chris Benstead:I got the opportunity to go, oh, let's get some views.
Terry Cook:I'll throw into that mix.
Terry Cook:The mock Testers on, particularly TikTok, one of which I was watching on at the weekend, and you know, they were reading and answering questions off of the live feed while teaching and they were, they.
Terry Cook:They also touched the screen, you know, doing it on a live feed.
Terry Cook:You know, I'm not saying that it's the same amount of illegal as we covered earlier, but it's the blatant nature of it.
Terry Cook:It's that lack of professionalism.
Terry Cook:And they then sat there on the live feed criticizing the previous instructor of this pupil for not being professional.
Terry Cook:Irony.
Terry Cook:Absolutely.
Terry Cook:And did.
Terry Cook:Yes, exactly.
Terry Cook:You know, all of these things that are out there.
Terry Cook:It's bad enough it happens.
Terry Cook:The fact it's then out there on a video and it's a badge of honor and it's what you want to represent you.
Terry Cook:I, I don't have a professional Persona that's separate to.
Terry Cook:You could cut that there.
Terry Cook:I've just realized it.
Terry Cook:So I don't have a professional Persona that is separate to my, to my private one.
Terry Cook:Because my life is sort of driving, instructing, and my family get that.
Terry Cook:My other half is she.
Terry Cook:She probably knows more about being a driving instructor than most driving instructors.
Terry Cook:She definitely knows more names in the industry than anyone else.
Terry Cook:And, you know, I've always struggled with that a little bit because there's sometimes, you know, there's stuff that I would put out that I would find funny.
Terry Cook:Do I want that to represent me?
Terry Cook:It's all public.
Terry Cook:There's no such thing as a private profile or you.
Terry Cook:It.
Terry Cook:You criticize people, people for commenting, you put it out there yourself.
Terry Cook:You live by it.
Terry Cook:Or don't put it out there or lock up your world so other people can't access it.
Terry Cook:But I tell you what, they can still screenshot it, so don't be stupid.
Terry Cook:So I just think we, we're in a world where it's a little bit black mirror, isn't it?
Terry Cook:Where, you know, I remember seeing an episode where there was something in their eye that recorded everything so you could then replay it for people.
Terry Cook:Be careful what you wish for.
Terry Cook:Be careful what you put out there.
Terry Cook:You know, just, just think about it.
Terry Cook:Because it.
Terry Cook:We are not businesses in most cases.
Terry Cook:We are individuals.
Terry Cook:And how you do anything is how you do everything.
Terry Cook:So, you know, I think we need to really Be careful.
Chris Benstead:I think it's one of those things where the example I used before, for instance, if that instructor didn't know better in that scenario, I kind of buy it because that means just not the best instructor at this point, and they're on a different chapter and they're moving along or whatever.
Chris Benstead:But they do know better.
Chris Benstead:And just for anyone listening, it's not who you think is, but they do know better and they've just chosen to do it because it gets clicks and views.
Chris Benstead:I think that's like you were semifinal.
Chris Benstead:The idea of breaking the law and choosing to break law rather than not knowing the law.
Chris Benstead:Not knowing is worse.
Chris Benstead:I think it's worse in this case, choosing to do it because you want clicks and views, because that's.
Chris Benstead:Yeah.
Chris Benstead:Making the roads more unsafe.
Chris Benstead:Because people will follow that.
Chris Benstead:Assuming that's correct, because those that will get more views than someone that shows how to do it properly.
Chris Benstead:And I think that there is a level of professionalism.
Chris Benstead:Driving instructors, if you're putting something on social media, whether it's a video, whether it's audio content, whether it's written content or whatever on Facebook or LinkedIn or whatever, there should be an element of.
Chris Benstead:I want to not bring down the standard of road safety that should always be in there somewhere.
Chris Benstead:Now, whether you put something out there that makes you look like a bit of a tick, which is what I regularly do, whether you put some out there that's maybe not quite right, or whether you put something out there that's.
Chris Benstead:You try something and it doesn't come off or whatever, to me, that's all fine.
Chris Benstead:It's when you do something knowing that it's wrong because that will then make or potentially have an impact on people dying or being in collisions on the road, and that's not over dramatizing it.
Chris Benstead:That's people following by example.
Chris Benstead:That's what you do on roads.
Chris Benstead:That's what.
Chris Benstead:Yeah.
Chris Benstead:So I just think that's where we need to be careful.
Chris Benstead:But it's.
Chris Benstead:Anything else you want to.
Chris Benstead:We could talk about professionalism all day.
Chris Benstead:I did about 50, 60 minutes with Laura Morris.
Chris Benstead:Anything else you want to touch on, Chris?
Terry Cook:Just one thing that kind of twists it slightly, reforms it slightly, is the fact that we are in a very minimum standards industry.
Terry Cook:That's the DVSA's remit and that's what a lot of instructors choose to work to.
Terry Cook:And actually, maybe professionalism and maximum standards go hand in hand.
Terry Cook:And maybe to use that example of, of social media, steering with one finger is okay for the driving test doesn't mean you should ever teach it to anybody ever.
Terry Cook:You know, just because it's acceptable doesn't mean that you should.
Terry Cook:It's the equivalent of driving inside or at the drink drive limit.
Terry Cook:You don't recommend that everybody has that couple of pints before they get in the car because you can, you know, and just because you can doesn't mean you should.
Terry Cook:And, and I think that that is, is a mantra that is worth keeping.
Chris Benstead:To ready to move on.
Chris Benstead:And now you throw a grenade into it because this happens all the time.
Chris Benstead:It happens to instructors.
Chris Benstead:But I'm going to raise it exactly what you've said.
Chris Benstead:New student this week come from another instructor.
Chris Benstead:Is that 20 hours?
Chris Benstead:I think something like that.
Chris Benstead:Towards the end of lesson it's 12 session, his hands have slipped out wheel and they're at the bottom.
Chris Benstead:And I thought that's interesting.
Chris Benstead:And I like to play it okay, my guess why they're doing it before I ask him, you know, and I'm like, I wonder if it's tied because he said that he used to our lessons with his previous instructor and now he's two and he's just getting a bit tired at another lesson.
Chris Benstead:So you know, I asked him, I said, you notice your hands have slipped a bit there?
Chris Benstead:He's like oh yeah, yeah, okay, that's interesting.
Chris Benstead:No response like just said yeah, how come?
Chris Benstead:What is that a conscious thing that you put your answers have you chose to or we don't real.
Chris Benstead:I know I knew I were doing it.
Chris Benstead:It says I've seen on Tick Tock that it's okay to do it.
Chris Benstead:I'm like yeah, of course, of course it's okay to do it.
Chris Benstead:You know, I won't fail the test.
Chris Benstead:Would I say no you won't.
Chris Benstead:What's safer having your hands at top, at wheel or at bottom?
Chris Benstead:And he went quiet and he goes probably top.
Chris Benstead:I wonder, okay, why.
Chris Benstead:And then we kind of spoke about for a minute and I didn't tell him anything.
Chris Benstead:I just asked him and this was one of the rare occasions where it worked perfectly first time because they just went, yeah, it'd be a bit stupid really, wouldn't it?
Chris Benstead:Just keep my hands at the bottom because.
Chris Benstead:And he gave the analysis example I use sometimes.
Chris Benstead:But he gave the example of if you've got your left hand on gear stick and you're right on the bottom of the wheel and you need to swerve right, you're a bit stuck.
Chris Benstead:But it was, it's rare stuff like that happens first time When I've got to be in my bonnet about instructors using that, trainers using those examples of working first time as well.
Chris Benstead:But it just was.
Chris Benstead:And it's just like that.
Chris Benstead:That's all you need to do on those Tick Tock videos.
Chris Benstead:You can talk about all the same stuff, you can get all the same clickbait headlines, you can do everything you want, just tag on the end.
Chris Benstead:But what's safer?
Chris Benstead:And you kind of eliminate.
Chris Benstead:Well, it's still not the ideal thing, but you eliminate the whole thing.
Chris Benstead:But you can't throw that grenade in.
Chris Benstead:Chris, when I give you a last one, but there's a specific question I want to ask you, a really specific question that I am not going to add an awful lot of context to and I'm not going to allow myself to respond to.
Chris Benstead:But just before we do that nice little cliffhanger for you, just before I do that, I want to talk about what's coming up in the industry because we forgot to do it last month.
Chris Benstead:So what's coming up in the industry are key moments.
Chris Benstead:And yes, I'm going to take this opportunity just to plug slightly my stuff because on the 4th of November we've got my damn time.
Chris Benstead:Dan Hill is recording live the Instructor podcast premium on the 6th of November being better with Bob.
Chris Benstead:Bob is going live in the Instructor Podcast premium.
Chris Benstead:And on the 11th of November we have another expert session, this time with Tom Stenson talking about gamification.
Chris Benstead:So if you signed up to instruct the Podcast Premium Interactive T and L, you would get my damn time Being Better with Bob and the expert session with Tom Stenson plus all the other expert sessions, including four we've done with you.
Chris Benstead:Chris did one around about some check your favorite topic, but that's just my stuff in November.
Chris Benstead:So November 17th that is road safety week that is run by break and then on the 6th of December it's the DIA conference.
Chris Benstead:So that's what's coming up that I can see the best of in November and December.
Chris Benstead:I've also just realized I forgot to put on the Road Safety GB conference on there, which I believe is in November.
Chris Benstead:I don't have the dates at hand, but yeah.
Chris Benstead:So some, some fun stuff coming up.
Chris Benstead:Chris, anything take your fancy off that?
Terry Cook:Yes, I, I, I, I think I'll be at the DIA conference which is at the British Motor Museum, which is is just a nice day out anyway, you know, you get to combine the two.
Terry Cook:You can go and look around, although last time I didn't even see a single car.
Terry Cook:I don't think because I.
Terry Cook:I end up chatting with people and, and not getting to look around, you've niggled me with the break.
Terry Cook:Road Safety Week again.
Terry Cook:Because every single year I struggle to find something meaningful to do with it, except for kind of shouting, you know, the usual rhetoric I'm trying to find.
Terry Cook:Not clever, just something interesting that, you know, to do with that.
Terry Cook:And having a number of hats means I have to come up with three ideas, you know, rather than just one.
Terry Cook:So, yeah, and if anyone's got ideas on that, let's start shouting about it now rather than leave it to the 17th and suddenly go, oh, it's this week.
Terry Cook:Yeah, let's plan ahead.
Chris Benstead:What I will say with that is I did have something in the pipeline that I was started planning at the beginning of the year.
Chris Benstead:I think a few people watching and yourself, Chris, will have been aware of it.
Chris Benstead:In the end, they decided not to do it because I hope this doesn't sound too cryptic, but I don't want to be specific.
Chris Benstead:It's in November and it didn't feel appropriate doing it this November.
Chris Benstead:So I said I'm gonna probably do it in May next year alongside the road Piece event.
Chris Benstead:But, you know, we don't have to do anything big for Road Safety Week.
Chris Benstead:I think this is a thing.
Chris Benstead:It's great when we do it, really is.
Chris Benstead:It's awesome when we do it.
Chris Benstead:And I think that, as you said, if people have good ideas that they can throw out there and do, whether they get shared with others or just do it themselves, then that's awesome.
Chris Benstead:But it's Road Safety Week.
Chris Benstead:I mean, we need to do something.
Chris Benstead:And like I, in my driving school hat on, I will do the bare minimum because I'm juggling a lot of balls in a minute.
Chris Benstead:But we can, I can share the Road Safety posts every day and just doing that gains more traction.
Chris Benstead:It's easier to say, well, it won't make a difference.
Chris Benstead:Well, if 40, 000 people say it won't make a difference, then it's not gonna.
Chris Benstead:But if 40, 000 people say it might do, then it will.
Chris Benstead:So, yeah, I don't want to go too far down that rabbit hole.
Chris Benstead:Stay.
Chris Benstead:But I would just advise Anyone it's not 17th of November runs for a week, Just get stuck in and guys makes a good point.
Chris Benstead:I drive in shortly.
Chris Benstead:Every week is Road Safety Week.
Chris Benstead:Yes, it is, but this is a week where you've got the whole road safety sector behind it as well, so it's a really good opportunity to promote it.
Chris Benstead:But yes, it should be every week for us.
Chris Benstead:And I do just want to ask you, Chris, the free lives coming up in the Instructor Podcast Premium, My dance time.
Chris Benstead:That's Dan Hill.
Chris Benstead:I believe we're talking about Christmas and planning for December this time round being better with Bob.
Chris Benstead:We are talking about full license holders teaching full license holders and be some Q and A in there as well because it's Bob.
Chris Benstead:And then we've got the expert session, gamification with Tom Stenson.
Chris Benstead:You know, let's put you on the spot.
Chris Benstead:Which one would you come to if you had the choice?
Terry Cook:Easy.
Terry Cook:It's the gamification session because gamification is my bag.
Terry Cook:I love it.
Terry Cook:There's an article about gamification on the DITC website and yeah, I love that stuff.
Terry Cook:And you know what?
Terry Cook:Dan Hill would come along to that one as well because he loves it and so would Bob.
Terry Cook:So I think we'd all be there because, yeah, that pushes all of our buttons.
Terry Cook:But they're, they're all going to be great because they're all brilliant at what they do.
Terry Cook:So, yeah, but I, I'll happily, you know, yeah, I'll, I'll, I'll go and go along and listen to Tom.
Chris Benstead:I'll send you a Link.
Chris Benstead:It's on the 11th of November.
Chris Benstead:You can come along to it.
Chris Benstead:One thing I'm going to mention, even though it'll be too late, but I'm going to mention anyway, is you have going up against the DVSA, Chris, on the.
Chris Benstead:Oh, what day will it be?
Chris Benstead:The 29th, 28th of October.
Chris Benstead:You are doing a webinar to combat the DVSA's webinar on the top 10 reasons people fail a Driving Test.
Terry Cook:The DVSA canceled.
Terry Cook:This was the issue.
Terry Cook:So there were people wanting to go, go along to it.
Terry Cook:And it was saying it was oversubscribed, but I believe it's now been moved to next year because the person who was doing it is not available.
Terry Cook:I don't know if that is, you know, fake news or not, but it's the news I got.
Terry Cook:So I just said the information's out there, it's on the website, it's on the Ready to pass, it's everywhere.
Terry Cook:So let's just do it ourselves.
Terry Cook:We don't need them.
Terry Cook:It'll be a better session anyway because what we'll do is we won't talk about the test all the time.
Terry Cook:We'll talk about how to avoid the problems rather than what the problems are.
Terry Cook:So, yeah, if anyone wants to come along.
Terry Cook:I think we've got 55 people too.
Chris Benstead:Late for people to come along.
Terry Cook:Oh, yeah.
Terry Cook:But though, I'll do it again.
Chris Benstead:Well, there you go.
Chris Benstead:Maybe what I will say is it's a good reason to be following the instructor podcast WhatsApp channel, because I shared that link out on there.
Chris Benstead:So.
Chris Benstead:But I was just keen as to why you were deciding to do this because, I don't know, it was interesting.
Chris Benstead:And now you've told me that because the DVSA have canceled.
Chris Benstead:So.
Terry Cook:Also, you know what?
Terry Cook:I'm like, it was a really good idea at the time and I, you know, someone said about it, it was like, yeah, I can do that.
Terry Cook:I, yeah, I do that sometimes and I normally regret it later, but it's, it's all good.
Terry Cook:I've got a lovely presentation all set up, ready.
Terry Cook:I'm sure that by the time people listen to this, you know, if it was that bad, you'll have heard about it.
Terry Cook:Hopefully it was that good that you heard about it as well.
Terry Cook:And I don't know, I might do another one about the theory test or something.
Terry Cook:So, yeah, if people are interested, you know, it might become a regular thing.
Terry Cook:It's basically like Adi walk back, you know, that, that there's, there's a, there's, there's a good idea there somewhere.
Terry Cook:And I kind of go, let's have a go.
Terry Cook:Why not?
Terry Cook:Let's see.
Chris Benstead:As I said, make sure you follow in the intro podcast WhatsApp channel, because that was up there within 10 minutes of me seeing it.
Chris Benstead:Well, not even two minutes.
Chris Benstead:And we've seen it.
Chris Benstead:But.
Chris Benstead:Very kind.
Chris Benstead:Do you know what?
Chris Benstead:It's interesting when you're saying about having these ideas because you, you were one of the people actually that I had to delete messages this week.
Chris Benstead:I sent seven messages out to seven different people and then delete them all five minutes.
Chris Benstead:I'm like, no, I have not got time or capacity for this now.
Chris Benstead:So, yeah, apologies to those seven people.
Chris Benstead:But yes, I, I want to ask you one very specific question to finish on, Chris, because it's something that I've kind of brain dumped on you a little bit over the last month or so, a couple of times, but never really spoken to you about it properly or asked for your force.
Chris Benstead:Now, I've just done a little brain dump and I want to ask you this without any comeback.
Chris Benstead:So unless you say something that is categorically incorrect or something like that, then I'm not going to come back on it.
Chris Benstead:But I want to ask you a very specific Question.
Chris Benstead:The instructor podcast, has it been a net positive or a net negative for the industry?
Terry Cook:I, I can't see how it's been a negative.
Terry Cook:I.
Terry Cook:Yeah, there's always things that you know, you wish you'd done differently or the, like the Newton's cradle, you know, you, you could trace back.
Terry Cook:It's like the reverse image lookup that the watchdog used.
Terry Cook:You know, you can work your way back and you kind of, kind of.
Terry Cook:You see the, the pebble in the pond and the ripples that go out.
Terry Cook:Is, is that ever bad?
Terry Cook:That's Life, isn't it?
Terry Cook:So 100 net positive.
Terry Cook:And I'm not going to sit and blow smoke up your backside.
Terry Cook:I refuse because we know that you, you deserve more acknowledgment and respect than you get for it.
Terry Cook:And you get a lot, but you deserve more and I'm very grateful to have had you on my podcast.
Chris Benstead:I mean, look, I'm not gonna, no comebacks respond to that.
Chris Benstead:I'm not going to come back to that.
Chris Benstead:But I will add a tiny bit of clarity on for the people listening, which is I'm of the mindset at the minute that it's potentially been a net negative.
Chris Benstead:However, I also realize probably shouldn't be saying that when I've now got actual sponsors on the show.
Chris Benstead:So I'm thinking I'll put a poll out.
Chris Benstead:But it's probably not ideal if everyone says negative and they've got some sponsor look at going, hold on, what's this?
Chris Benstead:But yeah, maybe I'll do a poll in January.
Chris Benstead:Net positive on that negative either way.
Chris Benstead:No, I was interested in.
Chris Benstead:Thought so thank you for answering that honestly.
Chris Benstead:But yeah, do you want to take a moment just to remind people where they can find you?
Terry Cook:So the ditc.co.uk for anything industry related challenge us.
Terry Cook:We don't care what it is.
Terry Cook:We got lots going on behind the scenes with some new approaches to things which will be coming out really soon and we'll have a chat about.
Terry Cook:On the green room maybe, but that's going on and then if you want theory stuff, theory test explained, find it on Facebook, Instagram or TikTok or just drop me a message and we'll have a chat.
Terry Cook:If you want to help your pupils, I want to help them too.
Terry Cook:So that sounds like it's a marriage made in heaven.
Chris Benstead:And just a reminder that you will be able to watch this live all being well, providing technology holds up because it'll be the first time we're doing it, but you'll be able to watch this live on YouTube going forward.
Chris Benstead:And if you want anything else Instructor podcast related www.podcast.com but for now, yeah, thank you for listening and let's just keep raising standards.
Terry Cook:The instructor podcast with Terry Cook talking with leaders, innovators, experts and game changers.
Chris Benstead:About what drives them.
