Green Room #49 - To bin, or not to bin...
There's some meaty news to get stuck into this month, including:
- The Convention
- Should an ADI be a position of trust?
- Driving and theory test changes
We also take a look at the concept of 'binning' students.
Check out the DVSA blog and the BBC article
You can find my safeguarding episodes here:
And find the DITC here
For more information on The Instructor Podcast visit https://www.theinstructorpodcast.com/
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Terry Cook and Chris Benstead dive into the latest happenings in the driving instructor world with a delightful mix of banter and insight. Kicking off with the exciting news that this is the 49th episode of their podcast, the duo makes sure to keep the energy high as they tease the upcoming 50th episode, promising more laughs and surprises. They share updates about the sale of Total Drive, a big player in the industry, and discuss the implications of such changes. As they navigate through the world of driving instruction, they touch on the importance of community and supporting fellow instructors, which is often overlooked amid the hustle and bustle of their daily routines. With a sprinkle of humor, they joke about the common struggles instructors face, like dealing with students who sometimes don't show up for lessons. The conversation flows effortlessly, reflecting on past experiences and the challenges that come with being a driving instructor. The heart of this episode lies in the camaraderie and shared experiences that help build a supportive network of professionals in the driving instruction industry.
Takeaways:
- This episode is a celebration of our 49th podcast milestone, gearing up for an epic 50th episode next time!
- We're diving into the latest buzz in the driving instructor world, and you won't want to miss all the juicy updates!
- Terry and Chris chat about the importance of treating students with respect and professionalism, especially in challenging situations.
- We explore the sensitive topic of driving instructors being included in the 'position of trust' list and why it's essential for safeguarding.
Transcript
The instructor Podcast with Terry Cook talking.
Speaker B:With leaders, innovators, experts and game changers.
Speaker A:About what drives them.
Speaker A:Welcome to the Instructor Podcast, Green Room Edition.
Speaker A:This is a show we cover all the latest news and hot topics from our little driving instructor world.
Speaker A:As always, I am your childlike host, Terry Cook.
Speaker A:I'm delighted to be here, but you're a bit delighted.
Speaker A:It's not just me because I'm joined by the adults in the room, the Mr.
Speaker A:Chris Benstead.
Speaker A:How are we doing, Chris?
Speaker B:I'm good.
Speaker B:I'm gonna try not to cough through this.
Speaker B:I've got the cough that everybody seems to be having at the moment, but I'll do my best, as always.
Speaker A:Often do you get referred to as the adult or the grown up in the room.
Speaker B:Never, never in my life have I been referred to as the adult in the room, except where there's slight concern into people's eyes.
Speaker A:So you know the instructor podcast, the gift that keeps on giving.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker A:As we said, this is a show that covers all latest news.
Speaker A:And you know what?
Speaker A:I think for the first time in a long time, there's some proper meaty news type events to get us teeth into.
Speaker A:But we also did get a really good message from one of my premium members, Dave Legg, who were talking about Stomachare and in particular idea of inning students.
Speaker A:So we'll talk about that a little bit later on.
Speaker A:But as we do on this show, for all 49 episodes that we have so far done, we will talk about the news first.
Speaker A:So if you don't want to hear the news, fast forward to the next bit.
Speaker A:But the most important news, I would say, as I've just kind of alluded to, is this is the 49th episode.
Speaker A:So what does that mean, Chris?
Speaker B:The next one's 50th?
Speaker A:Yes, the next one's the 50th.
Speaker A:That's quite a big special episode and well done for that quick maths you've just done.
Speaker A:We do have somewhat special lined up next time we've got we're going long, which for us is like quite a while.
Speaker A:I can imagine.
Speaker A:And we've got some very special guests coming along, some of which know about it and some of which haven't been sold yet.
Speaker A:So we'll see what happens on the day.
Speaker A:You're looking forward to the 50th, Chris?
Speaker A:50 episodes?
Speaker B:Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker B:I'm looking forward to the disappointment from the people that think you're going to invite them and now you don't from that setup.
Speaker A:So I've had that scenario with another thing I do recently, but we'll come back to that.
Speaker A:But yeah, the actual, actual news, not just me promoting myself, actual news, we.
Speaker A:We've had some.
Speaker A:I want to start off with one that was.
Speaker A:I was only really made aware of today, if I'm being honest with you, occurred a few days ago and I think it's relevant for us to mention maybe not a huge discussion, but the sale of Torsal Drive.
Speaker A:There'll be some people watching and listening that use Total Drive and it's been been sold for the.
Speaker A:The princely sum of 7.5 million pounds, 3.5 initially and going up according to bonuses, much like footballer sales.
Speaker A:But yeah, £7.5 million.
Speaker A:That's not bad, is it, Chris?
Speaker B:No.
Speaker B:I wish I'd been nicer to Tom on the team, to be honest.
Speaker A:Give them our support.
Speaker A:We could have got a cut.
Speaker B:Yeah, but I know I.
Speaker B:I think it's going to be interesting.
Speaker B:Anything like that's interesting it with it, with all of these things.
Speaker B:We've seen it before, it makes it or it breaks it sometimes, you know, things don't go the way that you expect.
Speaker B:Yeah, let's watch.
Speaker B:It'll be interesting to see what happens next.
Speaker B:And the history of the industry with big investors and big purchases has not been good.
Speaker B:Thinking of the likes of my drive, the MI drive lot that had holiday extras behind it initially and fair, fair old amount of money was plowed into that one and just as it started to get somewhere, it failed to get anywhere.
Speaker B:So, yeah, I look forward to seeing what that kind of investment and support does.
Speaker A:The guys behind it, someone, Ross, are staying on for at least a while.
Speaker A:So, you know, all being well, it should, should only get better for them, hopefully.
Speaker A:But I can remember a little while ago, I think it was on what was at the time, I can't remember what it was to be called, but the current vid podcast or whatever it used to be called.
Speaker A:What did it used to be called?
Speaker A:Do you remember?
Speaker A:No.
Speaker A:Anyway, McNall's podcast, the original version, I'm sure they were on there and I'll be paraphrasing massively talking about that one of their desires was to make a lot of money and sell the business.
Speaker A:So, you know, and again paraphrasing massive, but you know, they've achieved the goal, so well done.
Speaker B:That's something that I think was pointed out to me by, you know, a proper business person, that there's two reasons for having a business.
Speaker B:One is to grow it and sell it.
Speaker B:The other one is to grow It.
Speaker B:So it pays for you to sit around and do nothing.
Speaker B:And I think that it's, you know, it's not very common in our industry where it's, it's that because so often we are the business and if we stop, the business stops.
Speaker B:Which to some people is not a proper business that, you know, it's, it's not a going concern if you're not there and you want something that will be.
Speaker B:So I think that's a little bit alien sometimes.
Speaker B:So it'll be interesting to see people's response to it.
Speaker A:I think you can look at it from the flip side though.
Speaker A:So you look at what you do with the DITC or look at the insured podcast or even someone like My Drive Time, for example.
Speaker A:They are businesses, but they're not necessarily run for that reason.
Speaker A:It's like we want to make the industry better in this way and the way we do that is to do this thing which then happens to be a business almost.
Speaker A:And then if we make money from it, I'm, I suppose need to make money from it, otherwise we won't be able to do it.
Speaker A:Whereas there'll be other people that have a better business acumen potentially and go, I want to make money.
Speaker A:How can I make money?
Speaker A:This looks like good thing.
Speaker A:I'm not saying either of those ways are better than the other.
Speaker A:When I see 7.5 million being branded about, it does make me think maybe that way is better potentially because, you know, I don't think I would sell this on the podcast for 7.5 million.
Speaker A:I think I was above 7 pound 50.
Speaker B:I'll give you the 7 pound 50.
Speaker B:Yeah, you're not struggling for it.
Speaker A:I'll let you host the rest of the show.
Speaker A:Off you go.
Speaker A:No, but, you know, well done.
Speaker A:Stall Drive and did podcast.
Speaker A:There you go.
Speaker A:Gary Thomas, he's watched along with us today.
Speaker A:One of the people did podcast drive, the instructor development.
Speaker A:There we go.
Speaker A:Thank you.
Speaker A:But yes.
Speaker A:Next bit of news.
Speaker A:We were recently at the convention, we both you and I there and I think all but one of the current people watching us were there as well.
Speaker A:I've shared my thoughts on this previously, but this was your first time attending, Chris, what were your thoughts on the convention?
Speaker B:Yeah, you did a good job of selling it to me and I bought it hook, line and sink.
Speaker B:No, I, I enjoyed it.
Speaker B:I, I don't like big groups of people.
Speaker B:That's my problem.
Speaker B:So for me, probably I wouldn't go to the, the gala thing the night before again because I just found it stressful because of the big groups of people.
Speaker B:It, it was, it was great and there were some, you know, well deserved awards and it was nice to see but I think it added to, added to things for me.
Speaker B:The actual day of the conference I, I, I thought was a really nice, sorry convention was a really well organized day.
Speaker B:There was a good variety of trade stands because I think sometimes you need that balance.
Speaker B:You know, you want to go along and hear people and everything else, but you also want to pick up some freebies as much as anything.
Speaker B:And yeah, there was some, some really, you know, informed speakers.
Speaker B:It was a nice mix.
Speaker B:There wasn't too much in the way of standards check or part three or what have you that, you know, gets a bit overloaded sometimes.
Speaker B:Yeah, it was, I thought it was a really nice mix and I enjoyed it and I met some lovely people that I didn't know and I always think that's, that's nice.
Speaker B:It's lovely to see the ones that I do know and people have got very good at coming up and giving me their name because they know that I can never remember.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker B:Yeah, but it was, I met some PDIs that I'd never met before and hopefully they'll be listening because I gave them details.
Speaker A:Me, I'm a bit like you.
Speaker A:I don't like those big crowds, but I don't think I quite feel, I don't know why I feel it at the Expo, but I don't feel it at the convention.
Speaker A:I think it's because I'm in my own little bubble of people.
Speaker A:And actually it's one thing that not annoyed me.
Speaker A:One thing I didn't like was I got spilled from you.
Speaker A:We weren't able to sit together.
Speaker A:I was quite looking forward to playing footsie or whatever, but it was, but I did get to spend a bit of time, which is nice.
Speaker A:We had breakfast together, which is always good in the restaurant.
Speaker A:Just to clarify.
Speaker A:But no, I agree they didn't do.
Speaker B:Breakfast in bed there.
Speaker B:That was the.
Speaker A:No, well, we didn't ask, but the, you know, big shout out as you kind of touched on it.
Speaker A:But Richard stars, Gina, Rachel Butler, Richard Borges, these guys.
Speaker A:I think whether you agree with everything or not is on what you put out aside.
Speaker A:I think we can all agree they put on an excellent event, you know, and, and I think they run so smoothly most of the time when they do this stuff.
Speaker A:It's, it's really, really quality.
Speaker A:The, the thing I would mention as well, I know you said there wasn't much standards Check stuff on the presentation side.
Speaker A:But I did mention this before the event.
Speaker A:I think on one of these episodes it was a bit too much driving instructor, black and white stuff for me.
Speaker A:It didn't feel that, that quite level of variety for me that I like, I do like it mixed up a little bit and I think by the time we got to, I don't know, lunchtime or just after lunch, our bit driving instructed out.
Speaker A:But it was good.
Speaker A:Maybe the motivational speak could have been done with being at lunchtime rather than at the end to motivate us for the rest of the day.
Speaker A:What did he think of the motivational speaker?
Speaker B:He was all right.
Speaker B:I wouldn't have argued with him.
Speaker B:He was.
Speaker B:I think he's a lovely guy and I'm, I'm sure everybody.
Speaker B:No, it's huge.
Speaker B:He was.
Speaker B:What's his name?
Speaker B:James.
Speaker B:James.
Speaker B:So off of sis, who dares wins and yeah, I, I thought it was interesting.
Speaker B:I have massive respect for what he's achieved.
Speaker B:I did.
Speaker B:I, I felt there were more relevant people potentially that you could have had that would have motivated.
Speaker B:If we're going to be motor, what are we being motivated to?
Speaker B:And it was being motivated to do something if home afterwards.
Speaker B:I think, yeah, it didn't matter, didn't matter what it was, it was just being motivated and, and I, I just felt maybe there could be more of an inspiring purpose.
Speaker B:There's so many people out there that, that can do that.
Speaker B:But that's not knocking him.
Speaker B:I, I, I thought he did a decent job and, and I have massive admiration for anyone that can run.
Speaker B:I don't care how far, because I'm not a runner.
Speaker A:When Richard Stars introduced me to him, gave me a high five and I had to jump up to reach his hand.
Speaker A:It was like you have to accommodate someone's height, I think, when they're not quite as tall as you on the high fives.
Speaker A:But, but no, I think overall I love these events.
Speaker A:I love the conventions.
Speaker A:I think, I think I prefer it to the Expo.
Speaker A:And I think part of it is because you've got this group of people that have, I shouldn't say everyone, almost everyone there really wants to be there and they're paid to be fair.
Speaker A:A fair but good chunk of money to be there.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:So I think there's a slightly different atmosphere to perhaps the Expo when there are some people that come along that bit more, let's use the word, skeptical.
Speaker A:And I think there's less of that at the convention.
Speaker A:It's a bit more, bit more Enthusiasm, which was, which was nice.
Speaker A:Anything else you want to touch on with that, Chris?
Speaker B:No, I think just.
Speaker B:I would like to take the opportunity to say thank you to everyone who organized it because I did, I did enjoy it and I came back without my brain aching too much.
Speaker B:And I achieved that, I think partly by posting stuff on Facebook.
Speaker B:As the day went on, I kind of moved, move, managed to move on each time.
Speaker B:That's my new strategy.
Speaker B:So expect more when I go to events of me just abusing Facebook and Instagram.
Speaker B:But it was, it was, it was a good day.
Speaker B:So I appreciate everybody who put work in because a lot of them, we won't even know they were involved.
Speaker B:We won't hear anything about it and they made everyone else look good.
Speaker B:So, so yeah, my, my moment of the whole event, which is a tiny little thing, but was when, when Kev ad libbed because he was, he was struggling with the microphone and he'd been trying to tell people to, you know, sleuth their way through driving less and anxiety of try and find out what's at the cause of it and everything else.
Speaker B:And he, he just, he just was struggling with the microphone and went, it's a bit like I'm doing here if I move a little bit left or a little bit right.
Speaker B:And it was a quality trainer, Kev Field, a quality trainer, just going with the flow and he deserved the round of applause.
Speaker A:My moment of the event was like a collection of things.
Speaker A:Starting off by Rachel Butler telling me she was going to sit me next to her so I won't be picked on by the entertainer and then proceedings be picked on by the Entertainer for about 45 minutes.
Speaker B:You were the star of that show.
Speaker B:I thought it was hysterical.
Speaker A:I didn't.
Speaker A:Oddly.
Speaker A:On a complete unrelated note, on a completely unrelated question, do you agree with the principle that someone learns to become a driving instructor, should learn how to deliver lessons and then qualify and then learn how to deliver client centered lessons and then learn the GDA matrix.
Speaker A:Or do you think that all that could be bumped together in the beginning?
Speaker B:The second one.
Speaker B:The second one.
Speaker B:I think you need to, you need to know what all of the ingredients are even if you don't use them from the beginning.
Speaker B:I think that's the thing.
Speaker B:It's, you know, you need to know it's there and it exists because otherwise you don't leave room in your process for it and you, you know it.
Speaker B:Yeah, it doesn't work.
Speaker B:So, you know, I, I think we were chatting about this at the event, weren't we that the, the PDIs that I'm seeing coming through now are way better educated than I ever was when I joined the industry and the stuff that was delivered in my training, you know, partly not, not just through the people who are doing their training, they're going out and finding it themselves and the fact that they can do that is, is an absolute credit to a lot of people in the industry that have stepped up and it's taken time to do so and you know, all of those things are available.
Speaker B:I think there's some ADIs that need to feel a little bit threatened because I, I think there's, there's a lot going on.
Speaker B:I, yeah, I think it's really interesting.
Speaker B:So just seeing that, that, that shift of focus and I, I don't think we can discredit people's understanding just because they haven't been doing the job for very long.
Speaker A:I agree.
Speaker A:I think that some of the BDI is coming through now are better than I was, probably somewhere better than I am now, I reckon.
Speaker A:So there's some PDIs out there, they're better than some trainers, but, you know, whatever.
Speaker A:But let's move on because there has been some DVSA news which has been around test cancellations.
Speaker A:So they've changed the period, the time that you can move a test from three working days to 10 working days.
Speaker A:Chris, how big of an impact is this going to have on the driving test waiting list?
Speaker B:I didn't get it at all.
Speaker B:I, I and you know, I like to think that given a little bit of time to think about it, I'll figure it out.
Speaker B:I was really struggling so I did the sensible thing.
Speaker B:I collared Nick Taylor, the registrar at the convention, desperate to call it a conference at the convention and he said it's not my department, I don't know.
Speaker B:However, he did try and answer it a little bit for me.
Speaker B:He did a little bit of, you know, party, party line stuff.
Speaker B:I think from a driving instructor's perspective is not a benefit to us at all with the exception of if it does something to improve waiting list times and such, then okay, we'll see the benefit from that.
Speaker B:But actually we're, we're potentially going to suffer for it.
Speaker B:Depending on the model of your business intensive as I think it will go one way or the other because arguably they're going to have twice as much short notice stuff to pick from that they potentially are happy to just deliver.
Speaker B:Depending on the model of intensive, there's lots of different ways of doing it, but some of Them will happily just go, great, I've got a test for the end of it so that might be an asset to them.
Speaker B:But I think there's going to be a lot of people struggling because they've got less time to make that final decision and we're going to have the phones ringing off the hook because there's twice as much availability of short notice for people to be grabbing when they haven't got an instructor and then phoning everybody trying to get someone who's willing to take them.
Speaker B:So I think that's going to be going on.
Speaker B:Next point was that it's about the wasted person hours at the DVSA where examiners are left twiddling their thumbs because someone doesn't turn up or you know, that there's.
Speaker B:It's a short notice test and we assume that they haven't been able to get an instructor for it.
Speaker B:Now arguably the ten day thing could increase that because there's more that can't be cancelled.
Speaker B:So I still don't quite get it.
Speaker B:As we've said numerous times, we have learnt that when the DVSA do something actually they do think about stuff.
Speaker B:There is good thought behind it and they see it from that perspective.
Speaker B:We might not agree but there's a logic to it.
Speaker B:I'm yet to quite understand what that is.
Speaker B:I still am not quite there.
Speaker B:So anyone who knows if you've actually figured it out, please let me know.
Speaker B:It'll be interesting to have a chat about this on episode 50 or you know, 51 and see see what happens happens then.
Speaker B:The most confusion that I've had, which I will very quickly access on my phone so I get it right was when our local test center put up an update about the changes and it was the dates, the way that it was working and I read it numerous times and then questioned it which is that the 10 full working days is coming in that it will be from the 8th of April but the test before the 12th aren't affected and that really hurt my head.
Speaker B:So I asked test center manager who's awesome, I won't say which one it is, she, she knows who she is, she's awesome, really helpful.
Speaker B:And her reply was yes, exactly that as the current deadline would be the 8th of April but the new deadline is now the 31st of March.
Speaker B:I think I'm getting old, I'm really struggling to keep up.
Speaker B:So just be careful in that initial window.
Speaker B:Get them to double check.
Speaker B:Just.
Speaker B:Yeah, just do your homework because I'm confused.
Speaker A:It's it when I agree with 100% of what you say.
Speaker A:I like it when there's 90 and somewhat I can pick out.
Speaker A:But no, I fully agree.
Speaker A:I am going to put the caveat on here and I'm sure you agree with this, actually that I really, really hope that we're wrong.
Speaker A:I really, really hope that them doing this has a positive impact and not a positive impact like a tiny little change or like something that can fudge you and put in the report at the end of the year.
Speaker A:An actual impact.
Speaker A:I really hope it does.
Speaker A:But I do not understand for the life of me how I do not get it.
Speaker A:The fact that, and I look at me personally, forget what we should be doing.
Speaker A:I look at me personally, I know what I'm like.
Speaker A:If I was going for a test and I got to nine days worth of my test and then my instructor said I wasn't ready, I'm not risk rescheduling that test.
Speaker A:I'm lost my money anyway.
Speaker A:What's the point?
Speaker A:You know, I'll just let it go, you know, whatever, because.
Speaker A:And I think that's the risk we run.
Speaker A:And that's me.
Speaker A:Someone that is at least have an ounce of intelligence.
Speaker A:There are a lot of people out there don't even have the ounce.
Speaker A:So I do not get it.
Speaker A:I hope I'm wrong.
Speaker A:I really hope I'm wrong.
Speaker A:But it actually annoys me a little bit.
Speaker A:Minds are torn down.
Speaker A:But just on the dbs actually at the convention and look, there are people from the DBSA listen to this podcast.
Speaker A:I always get amused when I, when I check my email list and there's the DBSA email on there.
Speaker A:I'm like, okay, that's interesting.
Speaker A:But so, you know, apologies to anyone that's listening, but I thought they were quite poor this year at the dvsa, the convention.
Speaker A:It didn't feel like they had an awful lot of anything of note to say, really.
Speaker B:I think they were.
Speaker B:You know, it was disappointing that unfortunately John Sheridan wasn't well, so he couldn't come along because he, he's got a silver tongue.
Speaker B:He, he could, you know, give you the worst news in the world and you thank him for it.
Speaker B:He's very good at apologizing, but not apologizing on behalf of the dvsa and they're going to miss him.
Speaker B:I did drop him a message when they said that he wasn't, wasn't well and he said he was incredibly sad not to be there because it was going to kind of be his swan song because it was the Last big event before he was retiring but he's a retired three times so you never know if you're listening.
Speaker B:John, I hope you get well soon and feel better and I wish you all the best because you've been awesome and so helpful to us.
Speaker B:So I think they suffered for John not being there.
Speaker B:Wasn't that it felt like they didn't know what they were talking about but as you said that they didn't have the content to.
Speaker B:To deliver some, something meaningful.
Speaker B:We've heard the seven point plan stuff.
Speaker B:It wasn't really anything new.
Speaker B:Yeah, I think it was, it was very much, you know, we need to fill a bit of time but maybe there isn't anything.
Speaker B:We've had it on the, on, on the green room where nothing's happened.
Speaker B:You know, we're still, they're still trying hard.
Speaker B:It was.
Speaker B:There were some interesting figures in there.
Speaker B:I think maybe putting those figures up on the screen might have been a, a stronger move rather than just saying some numbers because there were quite some quite interesting numbers.
Speaker B:I think maybe the concern is that if you put them on the screen and we all take photos of them that they'll come back to haunt people.
Speaker A: ll be sorted by I think March: Speaker A:So.
Speaker A:Yeah, but no, I get it and look, I appreciate that me saying this stuff is, is less likely to make this happen but I colored one of them after.
Speaker A:I don't know why I can't remember the DVC's names there but I called one of them after because I was quite annoyed again about the emphasis so putting on those top ten reasons people fail.
Speaker A:And I'm just saying, look, this isn't why people fail a test.
Speaker A:This is the box that you tick.
Speaker A:This isn't the reason.
Speaker A:There will be people that hear this and see this and think that's what they need to address and it isn't.
Speaker A:Please can you do something with this?
Speaker A:And the answer was kind of no.
Speaker A:But I'm like look, at least we come on and talk about it so we can, we can put it out there what you're saying because you get a new PDA in scene this year, they're going to listen to this 13 year old or someone that from the DVSA they're going to listen to you.
Speaker A:So yes, but you know what, just while mentioning the convention I wanted to give a little shout out to a doctor in Greenwood.
Speaker A:We didn't mention anyone in particular before when we're talking about it.
Speaker A:But I, I know I was a little bit apprehensive about coming because he was.
Speaker A:I think these folks are thinking they're not going to get a good reception from driving instructors because of the reputation that the sensory procedures.
Speaker A:But I thought it was awesome and I thought he, he was really happy with it.
Speaker A:You know, he post on LinkedIn and stuff like that, saying that he fought such a great brunch of instructors and it was really positive about his experience there.
Speaker A:So, yeah, shout out to Dr.
Speaker A:Ian Greenwood.
Speaker B:Absolutely.
Speaker A:Let's move on then.
Speaker A:And we're going to keep with the theme of the DBSA because they at the start of the month released a blog talking about the positive impact the Ready to Pass is having.
Speaker A:So I'm going to read a couple of quotes from this blog and then I'll let you come back on these as you deem appropriate.
Speaker A:Chris New research shows that learners who are aware of the Ready to Pass campaign are more likely to agree that people should only take the driving test when you, their driving instructor, say they are ready.
Speaker A:85.6% of learners who are aware of the campaign agree people should only take their driving test when their instructor agrees.
Speaker A:Already for learners who are unaware of the campaign, it's 79% who agree.
Speaker A:So 6% more people who are aware of the campaign agree they should be taking the test when their instructor's ready.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:Do you want to comment?
Speaker A:I just, that's my comment.
Speaker A:We've spoke about Reddit past before and I think me and you were more positive about it than a lot of people.
Speaker A:Yes, it's still too test focused, but most like the convention.
Speaker A:You can't please everyone, you know, it's still too test focused.
Speaker A:The top 10 faults go up on there and, and all this kind of stuff.
Speaker A:She kind of like it at heart.
Speaker A:And it has had one or two of my students that have got messages or that have read it and they've come back and said to me, I've seen this and this is right, I don't want to take my session, I'm not ready.
Speaker A:And they've not waited for it to be a problem or me to raise it.
Speaker A:They have raised it.
Speaker A:So it does have an impact.
Speaker A:But it does feel a little bit like clutching at straws with that, trying to find a reason to justify it.
Speaker B:I really like it.
Speaker B:We haven't had anything like that out there before in that kind of, you know, in the way that it's its own standalone site.
Speaker B:Yes, it's government but actually even inside of that they're still finding ways to try and you know, sneak onto TikTok or which you're not allowed to do.
Speaker B:Government agencies, issues with China, all that stuff you mentioned TikTok and everyone rolls their eyes but it's, you know, they're, they're still trying to find ways to make that happen and engage with the audience.
Speaker B:So they are going outside of the norm which you know is, is just computer says no stuff.
Speaker B:There's some really good stuff on there.
Speaker B:If you have a look through the different levels of learning that are required against their 27 competency based syllabus, I think I've got that number right.
Speaker B:That you know that is, is an updated version of what I was given when I came into the industry.
Speaker B:It was a very instructor based but actually it's got reflection in there and I think it works really well.
Speaker B:It's gotta be test focus.
Speaker B:It's about putting them off taking the driving test.
Speaker B:You can't, you can't object to that because actually if you then read the other stuff it says because you're going to want to be safe in the future and it is, it's in there, it's ready to pass the test.
Speaker B:As the site I, I really like it.
Speaker B:I don't get the criticism.
Speaker B:I think you know, things like the number of hours.
Speaker B:It was an interesting one that came up at the convention and I've asked on Facebook since and got some mixed reviews from Muppets saying how long's a piece of string?
Speaker B:Which is such a helpful comment.
Speaker B:If you work out the average of a piece of string there is one.
Speaker B:I get the metaphor.
Speaker B:It's a metaphor, isn't it?
Speaker B:Yeah, I get the metaphor.
Speaker B:Metaphors and similes never really understood so I get that metaphor.
Speaker B:But you can still get an average if you're measuring them all.
Speaker B:So it's about looking at that and interestingly the figures there's so many variables that are coming through about those figures being different.
Speaker B:It would be interesting to see if the DVSA figures were the same now post Covid extended waiting list and all the rest of it to have a better, more up to date set of stuff on the website.
Speaker B:But actually it's one thing amongst many.
Speaker B:I, I'm a fan, I, I, I, I've seen them do a lot worse.
Speaker A:I like I said I do like it, you know and I do share it with my students as well and but I, I, I think I have the right to dislike something but accept it needs to Be there.
Speaker A:So the fact that it is about the test, it needs to be about the test because otherwise students won't look at it.
Speaker A:You know, learn how to drive safe for the rest of your life is going to get a loss.
Speaker A:Like what?
Speaker A:Less clicks and are you ready to pass your driving test?
Speaker A:So I don't like the fact that that has to be there, but I appreciate it needs to be.
Speaker A:You know, I have to think of CEO when I'm doing the description for this podcast and stuff, I don't like having to think of CEO.
Speaker A:I should just be right.
Speaker A:Whatever title I want.
Speaker A:And then that goes in often.
Speaker A:I do, but, you know, I have to think of that.
Speaker A: ecording our first episode in: Speaker A:You know, we've spoke about that a lot since.
Speaker A:And what they've done with Ready to Pass is they've raised their own minimum standards and we don't have to adhere to those minimum standards.
Speaker A:But the fact that they're raising the minimum standards is going to drag up the people that do adhere to their minimum standards.
Speaker A:So, yeah, I'm not, I don't think I'm quite as keen on it as, as, as you are, but I definitely approve of it.
Speaker A:I definitely think it's a good thing.
Speaker A:I think it's had a positive impact.
Speaker A:I just, it feels a bit like they're trying to justify it when they don't need to.
Speaker A:We know why it's there.
Speaker A:You don't have to come out and tell us it's there to reduce the waiting list, but you also don't have to try and convince us it's not, is what I would say.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:Yeah, it's.
Speaker B:We've been working hard.
Speaker B:The other one that I, I keep being reminded of at the moment because I've done a bit of motorway journeys, you know, me sat in my office all day looking at Zoom.
Speaker B:But having been out on the motorway a bit is the National Highways campaign about the blind spots, which I thought was really good on their website, but is even better when it's up on the whacking great billboards at the motorway services and things.
Speaker B:So anyone who hasn't seen that, check it out because that's a nice one for pupils.
Speaker B:While you're mentioning, you know, government or pseudo government campaigns.
Speaker A:Last thing I'll tell on this is that the blog Post Spotlight is actually quite interesting.
Speaker A:There is some information, interesting stuff on there.
Speaker A:I'll try and remember to put a link in the show notes, encourage people to go back and read it.
Speaker A:But we're 30 minutes into the show, Chris, we might have to take a moment to introduce yourself, try to tell everyone who you are, what you do and where they can find you.
Speaker A:All that kind of shizzle.
Speaker B:Yes, I am.
Speaker B:I forgot for a sec.
Speaker B:I am Chris Benstead and I am the co founder of the ditc, the Driving Instructor and Trainers Collective which is the signposting platform for the industry.
Speaker B:And personally I specialize in theory.
Speaker B:So if you have any questions, particularly theory ones, please feel free to get in touch.
Speaker B:But if you're looking for something, you want to know where it is, I will probably point you to Terry Cook at the instructor podcast because he's got lots of good stuff on there but otherwise we'll point you elsewhere as well.
Speaker A:You know the theory really, really cheap.
Speaker A:Let's try that again.
Speaker A:Speaking of the theory, we recently released a bonus episode on the the new ADAS Theory questions.
Speaker A:So is there anything you want to mention on that Chris, or should we just point people in a direction of that episode?
Speaker B:I go and check it out.
Speaker B:Lots of really good feedback at the convention.
Speaker B:All I will say to anyone who's worried because I've had a lot of worried people get in touch pupils that have looked at the massive change log and gone help.
Speaker B:Most of the changes are don't to do not or isn't to is not but they show us changes because there's a change to the question, but it's not even in the question or the answer, it's in the summary bit, the understanding and knowledge bit.
Speaker B:So people shouldn't worry too much.
Speaker B:If you're going to look at anything, check out adas, which I've just finished the video.
Speaker B:It'll be on my social media if you want something to share.
Speaker A:And yeah, if you want to check out that episode, it's the one before this in your podcast feed and you are listening to the Instructor podcast Green Room edition.
Speaker A:This edition will be cover all the latest news and hot topics.
Speaker A:And on this feed there's currently well over 220 episodes.
Speaker A:We're heading towards 250 which is quite, quite promising.
Speaker A:If you want any more to do with the instructor podcast go to instructorpodcast.com over there.
Speaker A:You'll find details on our membership and all the other stuff that I have to offer and you can also find me at Support driving School, which I'm co owner of, until Phil and Diana have had enough of me and they said to kick me out, which don't be surprised if that.
Speaker A:Well, is sooner rather than later, because I tend to have that effect.
Speaker A:But, yes, if you are considering joining the driving school, there is support.
Speaker A:Driving school.
Speaker A:But if you want more from me, the instructor podcast.com but I want to move on to something a little bit more delicate.
Speaker A:There's been a campaign, well, there's an ongoing campaign, but it's resurfaced again.
Speaker A:I don't think it's what we've ever spoke about on the show before and it's the campaign essentially for driving instructors to be put on the position of trust.
Speaker A:So I'm going to read out something again here now.
Speaker A:This is from the BBC News website and I think this explains it really well.
Speaker A:So bear with me while I read this out.
Speaker A:A position of trust is a legal term associated with roles where adults have a duty of care over a young person, such as in education and social care.
Speaker A:Calls for driving instructors to join the list have been going on for years.
Speaker A: In: Speaker A: In: Speaker A:But driving instructors were still not included.
Speaker A:Fear3, a charity that supports people affected by domestic abuse, sexual violence and stalking, has launched a campaign called Emergency Stop, which calls for that to be changed.
Speaker A:Debbie Beadle, the CEO, said, driving instructors know where you live, they have your phone number and they're alone with children.
Speaker A:So if they want to, it gives them the opportunity to spark up a relationship, take advantage of their position and groom children.
Speaker A:So it's important that we act upon this.
Speaker A:So this is quite a sensitive thing.
Speaker A:And just as a heads up, I have reached out to fearfree because it seems very appropriate I speak to them and get them on the podcast to talk about the thoughts on this.
Speaker A:But, you know, how would you respond to what I've just read out there, Chris?
Speaker B:I don't get why we weren't included on that list in the first place.
Speaker B:I suppose slightly, you know, responsive to the fact that it's been raised.
Speaker B:It almost feels like we weren't professional enough to be put on the list of potentially professional people.
Speaker B:That might be unprofessional, if that makes sense.
Speaker B:So, I dunno, I almost felt like it was a bit of a slight that we Weren't you would almost assume that we are.
Speaker B:And everything else.
Speaker B:From what I've seen about the interviews and such regarding this, the people that have.
Speaker B:Have offered stories and quotes, the horror stories about my driving instructor did this, don't condone any of them.
Speaker B:But the stories that were out there, none of them had complained.
Speaker B:I think that's more of an issue than where.
Speaker B:Because if it's not right, it's not right.
Speaker B:That's the thing, isn't it?
Speaker B:If something is inappropriate, if something is unacceptable, it's irrelevant whether we're on that list or not.
Speaker B:The penalty that comes afterwards will be greater if we're on that list and we work with that specific.
Speaker B:I nearly used an incorrect phrase.
Speaker B:That specific area of age where they're bridging the adult gap but are still vulnerable and we're in a position of authority, and that's why this is such a thing.
Speaker B:But if they don't complain, then nothing happens or it's allowed to continue until something worse happens.
Speaker B:So the complaining is.
Speaker B:The ability to complain is, I think, really important.
Speaker B:And I think we need to encourage more of that inside of the industry.
Speaker B:The DBSA have said, I think this is relevant.
Speaker B:They have said when people phone up and complain because you're not taking them to test and that sort of complaint, they are backing driving instructors because that's what they want us to do.
Speaker B:So I don't think there needs to be this unnecessary worry that just because you've upset a customer, they'll, you know, they'll be complaining to DVSA and you'll lose your badge.
Speaker B:The DVSA want to clean things up.
Speaker B:They are on our side.
Speaker B:They have made it easier for people to complain because you can find the instructor conduct page and this is how you complain about a driving instructor.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker B:So that's really good.
Speaker B:But people don't tend to complain.
Speaker B:They could.
Speaker B:They move instructors.
Speaker B:I'm really keen on looking more into the whistleblowing side of.
Speaker B:Of things, because if you get in touch with the DBSA to complain as a driving instructor, they kind of want you to put your name to it, which isn't always.
Speaker B:It was not going to encourage people to do it in a lot of cases, because it's often on your doorstep and you know it can cause problems.
Speaker B:So I think we could do with a better system for complaints.
Speaker B:And that doesn't undermine how important this is as a thing.
Speaker B:It should be in place.
Speaker B:It should always have been in place.
Speaker B:But actually, there are other things that I think inside of the industry, we should be doing better anyway.
Speaker A:I think we've touched around this subject before, but not specifically on this, but I don't think I've told this story before.
Speaker A:But it's always something that stuck with me.
Speaker A:And so five or six years ago it would have been pre Covid.
Speaker A:I had student young lady come to me for lessons and she would tell me about her two previous instructors and she was saying that her first instructor she left because the instructor was always on the phone while she was driving.
Speaker A:A second instructor, she left because she was always making inappropriate comments or sending appropriate messages along the lines of, well you've got those buttons on the nil, you might have undone some more and that kind of stuff.
Speaker A:So I'll never forget what she said to me and this is a bit that Stick said.
Speaker A:So as long as you don't do anything illegal and as long as you're not a pervert, you'll be my best instructor yet.
Speaker A:And I just remember thinking that's a really low bar if that's what people are judging us on.
Speaker A:And clearly some people are.
Speaker A:That's like horrendous.
Speaker A:And don't be wrong.
Speaker A:I saw the funny side of it.
Speaker A:She was saying it in like a playful, jokey way as well.
Speaker A:But it's like if I can't reach that standard then some is really wrong.
Speaker A:But the other aspect, and this does sort of massively tie into what, what you were saying.
Speaker A:You know, I've.
Speaker A:I've had people on series before talking sort of specific safeguarding experts and they're always quite surprised when it's like, well, I've got to do is a DBS check, there's no training there involved.
Speaker A:And when you think of it in those situations there should be training there.
Speaker A:And the best of us, I shouldn't phrase it that way but you know, we go out and get this additional training somewhere because it's not just protect what to protect them, it's to protect us as well from potentially false accusations or potentially someone doing something to us that when we know how to deal with.
Speaker A:Where would you recommend people go if they wanted that training?
Speaker A:Chris?
Speaker B:I think it's really difficult.
Speaker B:There was a case that I was made aware of where a local instructor had been found guilty of something and that, you know, the local instructors were very concerned about how they should protect themselves because we bridge that age gap between, you know, the, the 17 year olds and then the over 18s because we bridge that it gets, it's really difficult.
Speaker B:There's not support out there.
Speaker B:There's not places to go to, to get advice.
Speaker B:There's training available, you know, and there's lots of places that do safeguarding training inside and outside the industry.
Speaker B:I, and I think, you know, it's worth having a look at that.
Speaker B:A lot of it is common sense stuff, but it's good to sit down and actually look at it as a process and have safeguards in place and to highlight areas of risk.
Speaker B:But I think that, you know, it.
Speaker B:There's also this knee jerk reaction where it's I need to prove that I'm okay and that should be the default, as you said, you should be able to achieve that, that benchmark.
Speaker B:It's a really difficult one.
Speaker B:I've heard the absolutely unforgivable stories and you know, cases I've also heard that the ones where there's been a communication breakdown and such and you know, I think it's because of the environment that people are in, in the car and everything, it's very easy for that to happen.
Speaker B:So I think we're all aware of how, how easy an accusation can, can then suddenly progress and escalate and, you know, can affect things.
Speaker B:I, I'm.
Speaker B:One of the other things that I've always struggled with is how when accusations are made, you're allowed to keep teaching, you know, because of the process and we know how long that process can take from the DBSA end of things, of the investigations and everything else, which I find difficult because if you're on the end of an incorrect claim from someone, then you could destroy someone's business that way.
Speaker B:We are in a really delicate situation.
Speaker B:So I think it is well worth people looking at safeguarding training say I know DIA do it.
Speaker B:Neil Whiteman does some.
Speaker B:There's plenty of others in the industry that will speak to your national associations because they will be able to point you in the direction of some things.
Speaker B:Talk to your local councils because they will have something in place as well, which will probably be better from a local resources perspective.
Speaker B:But expect there to be a little bit of a gap between what's available.
Speaker B:If you were dealing with younger children and there are, you know, there's bodies and schemes in place to protect them.
Speaker B:Where we get to, if you've got, let's, let's make it not about something wrong as such, but if you've got a vulnerable pupil who is saying that something, you know, maybe they're going to go and, you know, try and injure themselves or something like that, that is really hard to find the right place to report.
Speaker B:It as a concern because we're not very good in this country at supporting that anyway.
Speaker B:So, you know, those things.
Speaker B:It's worth looking around to find out what your local offering is so that in the unfortunate eventuality that you need it, it's available to you, you've got an idea of what to do and it, you know, it's a.
Speaker B:It's a nice way to get in touch with local schools.
Speaker B:They can often point you in the right direction because they deal with it themselves.
Speaker B:So it might be a, you know, I hate to suddenly spin that into a business opportunity but you know, in engaging well with a local school, there might be something that you can, you can raise there.
Speaker B:I know we tried to do it locally with a.
Speaker B:There was a concern over a local instructor from one of the schools and we said, well, you know, would you like the list of the ones that we work with?
Speaker B:Because working as a group there's less likely to be someone who's.
Speaker B:Who's questionable.
Speaker B:They tend to be the isolated one.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So yeah, there's opportunities in there to build some beneficial and supportive collaborations.
Speaker B:So yeah, there can be positive from it as well.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker A:The other thing I'll chip in with there is I've done a couple of episodes on this so I'll try and remember to put links laws in the show.
Speaker A:Notes for people to go back and check, including one specifically with Laura Morris who put up some brilliant falls I'd not considered before on that episode.
Speaker A:And that was really interesting.
Speaker A:But I think I just want to touch back on one thing you said because I.
Speaker A:You said common sense and I think that that applies a lot of the time, but I think that there's times when.
Speaker A:Don't know what phrase I'm looking for.
Speaker A:It's not that common sense isn't that common, but it's easy for common sense to slip by.
Speaker A:And that's happened to me sometimes, you know, one, I've spoke about this before and I can't remember the exact thing, but I remember having a student who asked me to put my hand on hers to help her change gear.
Speaker A:So she specifically asked out.
Speaker A:This was an older student in a phase, you know, it wasn't a 17 year old.
Speaker A:I cannot actually remember if I did or not, but I was, I remember I was training at the time because I went back and asked my trainer, he's like, no, don't do that.
Speaker A:And then when he.
Speaker A:Step back and think about yourself.
Speaker A:Well, actually, yeah, no, that doesn't make sense.
Speaker A:I don't want to be doing that not just because of what the student may think, but what someone walking past may think.
Speaker A:And so I also think that we need to be a little bit careful when we generalize somewhat as common sense, because looking back now, that's common sense.
Speaker A:But in the moment, that's where common sense sometimes slips by the wayside.
Speaker A:But I just think that going back to the original point and the point that you made was that parts of should be on this list.
Speaker A:Pharceware should be training to begin with, around this.
Speaker A:And as I'm talking about this, I'm now thinking about this through what I'm doing, you know, so it's.
Speaker A:It's interesting and I think it's almost.
Speaker A:I might regret saying this, but it's almost to the point where anyone who doesn't think we should be on this list, I'd want to know why, you know, who doesn't think we should be in this position of trust?
Speaker B:I think a lot of it is fear, because if you give them the stick to beat you with, they might use it.
Speaker B:I've worked with people, I've supported, people who've had claims going in against them that have been proven not to be true.
Speaker B:The DVSA have investigated and people have got in touch with the DITC and said help.
Speaker B:And we've just gone through with them, spoken to them about the process, and it all comes clean in the end.
Speaker B:The stress of all of that, if you know that that consequence is so much more because of the additional legal ramifications of it, I think I can understand where there might be reservations, and sometimes it's from a lack of understanding and from that side of things.
Speaker B:Just as an interesting thought, I think the move from, let's say, instruction to coaching to polarize it.
Speaker B:I know when we were taught to be instructors, there's a glass wall between you and them and you do not cross it and everything else.
Speaker B:And actually coaching has softened that space in the middle of the car.
Speaker B:Not saying that we should be leaning across and touching or anything else, but actually there's that less of that instructor pupil dynamic.
Speaker B:It's much more.
Speaker B:We're on an even and even playing field and we're learning together kind of thing.
Speaker B:I think that that potentially brings more.
Speaker B:More risk along it.
Speaker B:Along with it for.
Speaker B:For the situations that can.
Speaker B:That can occur and can happen.
Speaker B:And sometimes we're too close to it.
Speaker B:We don't see it as a problem.
Speaker B:And as you said, sometimes it's the people walking past.
Speaker B:I've had a couple of occasions Where I had someone who got really scared on a country road to the point in which she started crying.
Speaker B:And a car pulled up alongside us and got us to wind the window down.
Speaker B:And I just said, just do me a favor, wind the window down.
Speaker B:And I.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:And then said, I'm going to tell you that she's okay because she can't talk at the minute, but I know that you want to hear it from her, honestly.
Speaker B:There was a tractor.
Speaker B:It was a bit of an issue.
Speaker B:Give her a second, she'll tell you.
Speaker B:And then she looked up, she went, I'm fine, honestly.
Speaker B:And it was great.
Speaker B:And I said, thank you for stopping, because if it hadn't been, it wasn't that situation.
Speaker B:That's brilliant.
Speaker B:And I had another one where we were both sat there crying and the lady knocked on the window to see if we were okay.
Speaker B:We were laughing and it was inappropriate because the phrase that the pupil used was not the one she meant to use.
Speaker B:At which point we'd creased up and this tiny little old lady knocked on the wood.
Speaker B:She nearly couldn't.
Speaker B:She was that small.
Speaker B:She nearly couldn't knock on the window, but knocked on the window to check that everything was all right.
Speaker B:And we were both sat there with tears, streaming faces.
Speaker B:So, yeah, I think the public perception is there.
Speaker B:That probably highlights a negative.
Speaker B:So let's see it as a way to make ourselves look more professional.
Speaker A:I think you're right, and I think that's a good point about the culture aspect as well, because you think about what we talk about now is the thoughts and feelings, you know, that's helping open up a whole other can of worms.
Speaker A:But.
Speaker A:But yeah.
Speaker A:Do you know what I'm gonna tell her?
Speaker A:A brief one.
Speaker A:I read a student not that long ago turned up and she smelled like she'd been smoking something she wouldn't have been smoking.
Speaker A:Now, she explained to me that it's the person she lived with and it's sort of secondhand smoke.
Speaker A:And I actually believed her, you know, just because of the interaction with that previously.
Speaker A:I'm like, well, we can't do a lesson.
Speaker A:I can't.
Speaker A:As much as I believe you, I can't let you drive my car like this.
Speaker A:And she, what?
Speaker A:Can we sit aside her own, Do a theory lesson?
Speaker A:And at first I thought, actually, that's not a bad idea.
Speaker A:Then I thought, no, because you're going to make my car stink.
Speaker A:And anyone walking past that sees the instructor car there just smelling a weed that don't look good.
Speaker A:And I was actually surprised at myself that I thought of that because that's usually a common sense thing that would go over my head.
Speaker A:But, yeah, I think.
Speaker A:I think I'm going to try and get what were they called fear free on the podcast.
Speaker A:I reached out just today, admittedly, but that could make for an interesting conversation, see what they've got to say.
Speaker A:But, yeah, anyone that's got concerns?
Speaker A:I think you mentioned it, Chris, but Neil Whiteman runs a lot of stuff around Safeguarding dia.
Speaker A:I think regularly do different courses on there, but it might be at the minute where you're going more external.
Speaker A:But as I said, I'll.
Speaker A:I'll try and find the links to the episodes and include them in the show notes.
Speaker A:But I think this kind of ties us into the next point because it was a message I received.
Speaker A:One of my premium members, Dave, like, who's in a nice way, my biggest critic.
Speaker A:I've said that before.
Speaker A:I love how he responds to my stuff.
Speaker A:And he was talking about driving instructors and customer care and the sort of specific example he used was binning learners.
Speaker A:And when we'll see someone say, oh, someone no showed or someone did this, whatever, and we get all those comments.
Speaker A:Binham, Binham, Binham, Binham.
Speaker A:Now, I mentioned this to you before we started recording, and your sort of initial response was, I hate that phrase.
Speaker A:And so do I.
Speaker A:So do I.
Speaker A:Why do you hate that phrase?
Speaker B:I nearly swore.
Speaker B:I never swear on this.
Speaker B:It's fill in the blank, disrespectful.
Speaker B:They don't have to come to you.
Speaker B:They've given you their money, they've given you their trust and for some reason it hasn't worked.
Speaker B:And it.
Speaker B:That could well be down to your communication.
Speaker B:Not there that you didn't, you know, lay the table to quote, to steal your phrase, didn't lay the table properly and say, this is how it's going to work and this is what it's going to be.
Speaker B:You know, you didn't step in when it started going wrong or all of those things.
Speaker B:It could be that they're just a nightmare of a person and that's how they are in their life and everything else.
Speaker B:I just think it's disrespectful.
Speaker B:And fine, if it's not working for you, you don't have to teach anyone.
Speaker B:It's okay to say no.
Speaker B:So say no.
Speaker B:Say it's not working out now.
Speaker B:And part, you know, part professionally, you don't have to part as friends, part professionally.
Speaker B:I hate the Binet phrase.
Speaker B:Binham phrase.
Speaker B:I just, yeah, it Absolutely grates on me to the point at which I can't engage with posts that have got people saying Binham.
Speaker B:I also think you can often turn it around that we, we know that the industry is word of mouth.
Speaker B:The main referrals that you will get are word of mouth referrals.
Speaker B:That person you're binning is a.
Speaker B:Is, is the opposite of a referral.
Speaker B:They will be telling people not to come to you if you handle it badly.
Speaker B:So don't handle it professionally and just say, I don't think this is working well.
Speaker B:You know, here's a better option.
Speaker B:This is what I think you should do.
Speaker B:I'm not willing to take your money while you're not committed to the process, whatever it might be.
Speaker B:You know, do do that.
Speaker B:It doesn't mean they have to like it, but at least they can't come back and go, this is what they told me.
Speaker B:You know, it's the same as when a pupil sends a message at 2 in the morning or an inquiry at 2 in the morning or whatever it is, and people reply in a negative way or the other one.
Speaker B:I've never understood where they said, oh, because you've been busy.
Speaker B:I've booked a couple of lessons with this other instructor who was available, so I'm going to do both lessons.
Speaker B:No, you're not.
Speaker B:I don't share pupils.
Speaker B:You don't get a choice, honestly.
Speaker B:It's up to them.
Speaker B:They're the customer.
Speaker B:So, you know, you might not like it, but that might say more about you than them.
Speaker B:Can I get off my soapbox now?
Speaker A:Because I'm going to step on mine.
Speaker A:But you know, all those points.
Speaker A:I agree.
Speaker A:One of the things I genuinely speak about on the first lesson, you have my number.
Speaker A:Do not be afraid to use it.
Speaker A:I don't care when you text me.
Speaker A:If you text me at 2 in morning, that's completely fine.
Speaker A:You just can't complain when I reply at 6 in the morning when I get up.
Speaker A:You know, it's kind of works both ways in that sense, but it's, it goes back to what you said.
Speaker A:It's.
Speaker A:It's disrespectful.
Speaker A:I also think it's borderline unprofessional.
Speaker A:I think that I spoke with Tom Stenson, I recorded with Tom recently for the Premium Membership, I think it was, and I told them the story in there about how I'd let a lad go bin him.
Speaker A:I let him go because I couldn't provide him with what he wanted, because he wanted, like a fast pass type of thing.
Speaker A:I'm like, I'm not the guy for you.
Speaker A:I'm sorry, but I'm not.
Speaker A:And off he drops.
Speaker A:And then a little while later, he sent me one of his friends because he told his friend, this is the instructor you want.
Speaker A:Because his friend didn't want the same type of lessons that he did.
Speaker A:If I'd have binned him in that unceremonious manner, I wouldn't have got that, that other student sent through.
Speaker A:So I just think it's, it's uncalled for, I really do.
Speaker A:And, yeah, we can throw a tantrum all we want and say, yeah, but this person.
Speaker A:No showed one saw.
Speaker A:Yeah, but whatever it is, you know, it's.
Speaker A:I don't know, I just.
Speaker A:I don't get it.
Speaker A:I don't get someone get it why someone causes you a problem that.
Speaker A:That then causes a meltdown.
Speaker A:I would understand it if it was an ongoing thing, you know, and there are times, I'm sure, when I would say, all right, you screwed me over five times.
Speaker A:Now I'm bidding them, you get annoyed for five minutes and you freeze it.
Speaker A:Might even phrase it that way.
Speaker A:But then you calm down, you go, well, actually, I'm a pressure on human.
Speaker A:I'm going to speak to them, I'm going to tell them I can't work anymore.
Speaker A:And I think there's a massive difference between doing that and just kicking someone out.
Speaker B:Yes, but if it's got to that point, you probably should have done something about it sooner.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker A:Yeah, completely, yeah.
Speaker A:Sorry, I'm talking over you because I'm on my soapbox now, but there was two people last year and again, I spoke about this, my premium membership, because it bothered me.
Speaker A:There were two people last year I let go because they were not my students, they were not people that come to me for lessons.
Speaker A:And it was all because I, I didn't filter them properly.
Speaker A:I wasn't doing my marketing properly.
Speaker A:So people that wouldn't normally come to me for lessons, that come to me for lessons and they were.
Speaker A:There were no showing, they were messing me about.
Speaker A:That caused me all kinds of problems.
Speaker A:And when I stepped back and look at it, it was all my doing.
Speaker A:It was all my doing.
Speaker A:I wasn't putting my social media out saying, this is what I expect.
Speaker A:I wasn't having those conversations with them early on.
Speaker A:I wasn't setting my boundaries.
Speaker A:I was just like, just.
Speaker A:I'd gone slack for a little while and as a result, I'd got people I didn't enjoy working with that were messing Me about that was my fault because I'm not nipped in the budget.
Speaker A:So in the end, I had to do what I had to do on it to let him go.
Speaker A:But it was all respectful and it was pleasant and no one fell out.
Speaker A:And I think that's the thing.
Speaker A:And you know what?
Speaker A:I'm going to use a phrase now, the snowflake.
Speaker A:It's that thing we see all the time talking about youngsters and this generation or whatever and them all being snowflakes.
Speaker A:But then you see instructors online kicking off about this stuff, and I think, who's actually a snowflake?
Speaker B:Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker B:Absolutely, it is.
Speaker B:I, I think it's easier to throw the stones, isn't it?
Speaker B:So, yeah, no, I, I, I hate it.
Speaker B:Absolutely hate it.
Speaker B:I don't like the attitude.
Speaker B:I've had nightmare pupils.
Speaker B:It's not all, you know, roses, but as you said, a lot of them, I haven't helped the situation or I've let it happen in the first place.
Speaker B:When I've taken them on, knowing it's going to be a problem, I've learned to say no.
Speaker A:Yes, I get that because I filter my students a lot more over the last few years because obviously demand increases, so you get more inquiries and it's like, oh, no, I'm going to pick who I want to work with.
Speaker A:But I've always done that ever since I left Red driving school.
Speaker A:And I've told this before, but when I was with Red, I used to get on with my students.
Speaker A:You know, I didn't really dislike anyone, but when I went independent, I loved my students.
Speaker A:There was a shift.
Speaker A:And the difference is they were choosing me, not the company.
Speaker A:It shows Red, and then Red sent them to me.
Speaker A:And there's nothing wrong with that.
Speaker A:Just to clarify, you run a driving school, you know, you'll send students to your instructors sometimes, so there's nothing wrong with that.
Speaker A:But when I went independent, they were choosing me.
Speaker A:And I think that makes a big difference.
Speaker B:That that's what we've done differently with our driving school is that actually, if you look at social media, it's much less common for our driving school to be recommended.
Speaker B:Our instructors get recommended because that's what we wanted to build when, when we created it.
Speaker B:And I think that is the thing that I always say to people that are on with big franchises.
Speaker B:How are you going to stand out?
Speaker B:You don't want to be the AA Red BSM instructor because there's lots of them.
Speaker B:So how, you know, if, if that works for you, being with A franchise, you know, being under a name, whatever it is.
Speaker B:Absolutely.
Speaker B:But you want to be a person, an individual so that people know it.
Speaker B:The number of people that come to my theory training and they don't know their instructor's name, it.
Speaker B:And there's two types.
Speaker B:I get the ones that are referred by the instructor, who know their instructor really well, and they know them by name and they're referred to them while we're, we're chatting.
Speaker B:And you get the ones that have found me, you know, or their parents have found me because they're struggling, they don't know their instructor's name.
Speaker B:I've never had a pupil not know my name.
Speaker B:I just, I don't understand it.
Speaker B:I really struggle with that concept to the point at which they will remit.
Speaker B:Even if they learn 10, you know, 15 years ago now, they will know me.
Speaker B:And I still hear from them every now and again.
Speaker B:And it's.
Speaker B:That is what I want to be as an instructor.
Speaker B:I don't want to be an instructor.
Speaker B:I want to be the person that was part of their life and their journey because I enjoy that.
Speaker B:That sounded egotistical, but it's not totally this at all.
Speaker A:It sounded like what you want to achieve.
Speaker A:And Joe, I'm, I'm going to put myself on the spot a little bit.
Speaker A:No, I put myself in the firing line here.
Speaker A:Chris, I've sent you a handful of students for the theory.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker A:How do they talk about me?
Speaker B:I'm not going to say what they said.
Speaker B:But they knew who you were.
Speaker B:No, they, they genuinely loved you.
Speaker B:They, you know, they, they, they all said how great you are.
Speaker B:Because I, tongue in cheek.
Speaker B:I will, you know, poke at fun at the practical instructor because of the division between practical and theory.
Speaker B:I do it very carefully because I did get someone phone me up and complain.
Speaker B:The other day, you told my pupil I was teaching wrongly.
Speaker B:I was like, let me explain.
Speaker B:And it wasn't.
Speaker B:It was just trying to highlight the difference between what you get told in the car and what the theory needs.
Speaker B:For example, if you're being followed by a car that's too close, most instructors will say, don't worry about them.
Speaker B:Focus on what you're doing.
Speaker B:And that's a wrong answer on the theory test.
Speaker B:The answer is make more space in front of you to make up for the lack of space behind you.
Speaker B:So, so, so, yeah, I'll often kind of, you know, poke a bit of fun.
Speaker B:I love it when, like your pupils, they are defensive.
Speaker B:They want to protect their, their instructor because they've got an instructor that they respect.
Speaker B:And I love that.
Speaker B:You know, I think.
Speaker B:I think that really shows that they're listening because what that means is they're going to be safer in the future because they.
Speaker B:They trust what you're telling them.
Speaker B:They trust the opinion you have.
Speaker B:We need some of that.
Speaker B:Because otherwise you're telling them what to do to pass that test.
Speaker B:And then afterwards they're gonna forget what you said and they're gonna do what their dad told them or what their mate does or whatever it is.
Speaker B:We need to have that little bit of authority in there, and that doesn't have to be authoritarian.
Speaker A:I appreciate that.
Speaker A:And whilst I should be taking positive from that, what I'm hearing is if they're getting defensive, you must be attacking me.
Speaker A:So, you know, whatever.
Speaker A:There was an occasion was whenever we read and again, no sight on red.
Speaker A:But when else we've read, there was a time that clicked for me, a very specific time that they realized I need to start getting my own students.
Speaker A:And it was a lesson where pull the butt side at road.
Speaker A:And a robin sat on the mirror next to me.
Speaker A:And I'm like, look, that's a robin right there.
Speaker A:Look at it.
Speaker A:It's right there.
Speaker A:And he's like, oh, you're whatever.
Speaker A:Can we crack on?
Speaker A:I'm like, I don't want to teach you anymore.
Speaker A:You're not excited by the fact there's a robin on my mirror.
Speaker A:I was tempted to kick him out.
Speaker A:And I like, I need to market for people that want robins to come and sit on the mirror.
Speaker A:I do want to touch back in to one comment that we've had.
Speaker A:I'm not going to say where it's from just in case people are listening potentially that will realize that they're talking about them.
Speaker A:But you think there's a lot of these about.
Speaker A:And it's WhatsApp groups with no lists.
Speaker A:And not just WhatsApp groups him on Facebook as well, where, you know, don't take on this person.
Speaker A:I must admit, I have been known that when I see my local area, do not take on this person.
Speaker A:I have been known to reach out to that person and offer them lessons.
Speaker A:And they've always been awesome when they've happened because I always think there's two sides for every story.
Speaker A:And even with me, I've said about the students, I'd let go.
Speaker A:I bet they didn't like me and I bet that they're going to get on better with their next instructor because they didn't get on well.
Speaker A:With me.
Speaker A:So when I get someone that's come from another instructor, it's not necessarily always a slight on that instructor, but if they didn't get on with that instructor, they get more chance of getting on with me because they're coming in looking at it slightly differently.
Speaker A:Again, I just need to not be a pervert and not do anything illegal.
Speaker A:And that's all I need to do for some to be better than some people.
Speaker B:So, yeah, Yes, I run, I run 20 or so WhatsApp groups across the local area because we've got one per test center, plus a few specialist type things and a test swap group because you need one of those nowadays.
Speaker B:And the rule is no people details, partly gdpr.
Speaker B:It's a whacking great fine.
Speaker B:You don't want to be doing that.
Speaker B:And I see it as a way of protecting the instructors from saying something they shouldn't and causing themselves a problem because we don't always think outside of typing it, do we?
Speaker B:But I, I, it is something I've, I've never liked because as you said, there's circumstances behind it and you never know who knows who.
Speaker B:It's what the six degrees of separation.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Which is, you know, something that always fascinates me.
Speaker B:Don't.
Speaker B:It's not worth upsetting people seeing that.
Speaker A:Blog on TikTok who keeps finding everyone's connection to Kevin Bacon.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker A:Brilliant.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Is there anything else you want to touch on around this topic?
Speaker B:No, I think we've soapboxed it to death.
Speaker A:I don't know.
Speaker A:I think there's an awful lot more we can complain about, but we don't want to.
Speaker A:Let's finish on a positive note.
Speaker A:What's positive at the minute?
Speaker B:Chris, help.
Speaker B:This is when I then go.
Speaker B:Are you trying to get me to say something specific that maybe you mentioned earlier?
Speaker A:Really not.
Speaker A:We've just been talking about negative stuff.
Speaker A:I want somewhat positive.
Speaker B:Just want something positive.
Speaker B:I'm struggling now.
Speaker B:I, yeah, nothing that's of interest to the people listening.
Speaker B:I've got lots of really cool stuff.
Speaker B:My, my daughter's now able to kind of get herself up and start smiling at me in the morning.
Speaker B:That is, if, if anyone wants to see something positive that brightens your day, you know, I, I'll take that.
Speaker B:She's eight and a half months old and she's awesome.
Speaker B:So for me, I'll, I'll go with that.
Speaker B:I don't, I.
Speaker B:You can throw all the negativity you like at me.
Speaker B:I get to go home and get smiled at.
Speaker B:It's all good.
Speaker B:She'll learn.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:I live along.
Speaker A:So thanks for bringing that in.
Speaker A:Now I must admit, actually, one of my highlights from the weekend with the convention was when I got home when I saw you'd post a picture of you and your daughter and they were like, I've had an awesome weekend.
Speaker A:But coming on to this, I can't remember the exact phrasing.
Speaker A:It was that sort of thing.
Speaker A:I just thought that's really nice.
Speaker A:We don't see enough of that on social media.
Speaker A:But in terms of positivity, I'm going to talk just briefly about some of the stuff that's coming up.
Speaker A:So in May is a Scottish Scotland ADI NJC conference.
Speaker A:I nearly went up there last weekend by mistake instead of Milton Keynes, which would have been interesting.
Speaker A:Then we've got the expo in September.
Speaker A:We've also got, as we mentioned, the 50th episode of the instructor podcast Green Room in April.
Speaker A:And in July we've got the Instructor, Megan R.
Speaker A:Nine guests or well, potentially 10 actually because I may have overbooked but nine guests are all delivering 20 minute presentations so get tuned in for that.
Speaker A:But for now, do you want to take a moment to remind people who you are and where they can find you?
Speaker B:I Chris Benstead, dad, magician and theory specialist and I co run the DITC for all of your driving instructor needs.
Speaker B:So if you need anything about theory, if you need anything that you can't find elsewhere, get in touch and I will happily point you in the right direction.
Speaker A:What are you better at being a dad, a magician or a theory test specialist?
Speaker A:In fact, rank them.
Speaker B:I love magic, absolutely love it, but I'm not good at it.
Speaker B:It's like everything same as musical instruments.
Speaker B:I like knowing how it's done and in that ruins magic to some extent.
Speaker B:We saw the well, you were directly involved with the Mentalist at the the gala event before the convention.
Speaker B:I was bored to tears because I just sat there knowing how it was done and you were, you were loving it and it was great.
Speaker B:So I missed some of that.
Speaker B:So my advice is don't get into magic because it ruins the magic in some ways.
Speaker B:So I am a very amateur magician.
Speaker B:I can do a couple of tricks really well.
Speaker B:One I showed Tom Stenson and you weren't there.
Speaker B:So I need to show you at some point I will find out how good I am as a dad as to whether she ends up, you know, incarcerated or not.
Speaker B:We'll wait and find out.
Speaker B:I've had two, you know, practice projects.
Speaker B:One's 14 and one's eight.
Speaker B:So, you know, both of those are doing all right, I think.
Speaker B:But this one's a different gender, It's a different world.
Speaker B:So I'm waiting to figure that one out.
Speaker B:And was the other one.
Speaker B:My theory was, was that the number three.
Speaker B:I think I'm really good at that.
Speaker B:I'm a massive geek and that's what the theory is all about.
Speaker B:I get to geek out and I get to be silly and come up with things that to no one else will make sense.
Speaker B:But it means they stick in people's heads and they remember it.
Speaker B:So I think I was built for, for doing that.
Speaker B:The other stuff I just kind of muddle through.
Speaker A:We're going theory, dad, magician.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Oh, we'll have to wait 10 years to find out about that, you know.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:You know, the dad might go up or down depending on my success, but they.
Speaker B:It's a long term project, isn't it?
Speaker B:I don't really do long term.
Speaker A:You said I like I was having a wheel of a time with that mentalist.
Speaker A:If I give that impression, that's clearly a good thing because I wasn't.
Speaker A:I, at the start of this year started learning to juggle.
Speaker A:Oh, cool.
Speaker A:And I can currently juggle one ball, but I can juggle rumble almost reasonably well now.
Speaker A:Whereas this, that year I could not juggle one ball.
Speaker B:I.
Speaker B:I can juggle balls.
Speaker B:I'm not very good with clubs, but I had fire clubs.
Speaker B:That's a good way to learn clubs.
Speaker B:Light one end of fireball is not as much fun.
Speaker B:And I can spin plates as well.
Speaker B:I had a weird.
Speaker A:Where'd you.
Speaker A:I knew that as soon as I gave myself one little positive, you would just like essentially piss all over it.
Speaker A:So you know it's fine.
Speaker A:But yes, you hope you've enjoyed this episode.
Speaker A:If you're listening, that last little ramble was specifically for one person who we know enjoys these shows.
Speaker A:We won't be listening to this.
Speaker A:So, yeah, big thank you for listening.
Speaker A:If you want more, you can check out the instructorpodcast.com but for now, let's just keep raising those minimum standards.
Speaker A:The instructor podcast with Terry Cook, talking.
Speaker B:With leaders, innovators, experts in game changers.
Speaker A:About what drives them.
