The Emergency Stop Campaign: Why It Matters to Instructors
In this episode of The Instructor Podcast, host Terry Cook kicks off the brand new monthly format with a powerful and timely discussion. He’s joined by Debbie Beadle, CEO of Fear Free, to explore the urgent need for safeguarding in the driver training industry.
Debbie shares the story behind the “Emergency Stop” campaign, which calls for driving instructors to be legally recognised as being in a position of trust under the Sexual Offences Act. They discuss why this matters, what safeguarding really involves, and how instructors can protect both their learners and themselves.
Later in the episode, Terry speaks with James Luckhurst from Project EDWARD about the Blue Light Aware campaign. They cover how instructors can prepare learners to deal with emergency vehicles safely and why those conversations could be life-saving.
This is the first episode in a new monthly format designed to go deeper into important topics affecting driving instructors. It’s essential listening for anyone who wants to raise standards, build trust, and create safer roads.
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Transcript
The Instructor Podcast with Terry Cook talking with leaders, innovators, experts and game changers about what drives them.
Speaker B:Welcome to the Instructor Podcast.
Speaker B:This is a show that helps you become an even more awesome driving instructor and continues driving instructors towards Vision Zero.
Speaker B:As always, I am your host, Terry Cook.
Speaker B:I'm delighted to be here and even more delighted that you have chosen to listen because today marks the first episode in our brand new monthly format.
Speaker B:Now, if you haven't already checked out the latest episode, time to hit reset, I highly recommend you go back and give it a listen.
Speaker B:It explains exactly why I've decided to overhaul the show and what you can expect going forward.
Speaker B:Now, this episode features not one, but two great guests.
Speaker B:First up is Debbie Beadle, who is a CEO of Fear Free, speaking about their powerful new campaign that argues that the role of driving instructor should be a position of trust.
Speaker B:It's an important and potentially overdue conversation.
Speaker B:Now after that, I'm joined by James Lochurst, the man behind Project Edward and Gem Motoring Assist.
Speaker B:Now we're diving into the Blue Light Aware project, those videos you might have seen and hopefully shared with your learners about how to handle emergency vehicles safely and correctly.
Speaker B:We also chat about a free upcoming webinar on that very topic, which I highly recommend.
Speaker B:And we even touch on James's recent horse ride from Lambourne to Windsor.
Speaker B:Now, if you stick around to the end of the episode, I'll share my final thoughts, some key takeaways and a few action points you can use straight away.
Speaker B:Oh, and one of the new features I'm excited about is the Episode Workbook.
Speaker B:Now these go way beyond the simple summary.
Speaker B:Inside you'll find key points and quotes, reflective questions, action steps that you can apply, links to, everything mentioned, and further listening suggestions.
Speaker B:To get the workbook, you'll need to be on the email list.
Speaker B:Now, if you've already signed up, great.
Speaker B:If not, don't worry.
Speaker B:We'll send out a follow up email in a few days.
Speaker B:You can sign up via the show notes or at www.the instructorpodcast.com.
Speaker B:but for now, let's get stuck into the show.
Speaker B:So I'm now delighted to be joined by Debbie Beadle, who is the CEO of Fear Free.
Speaker B:Thank you for joining me today, Debbie.
Speaker C:Thank you for having me.
Speaker B:No, I'm delighted to have you on board because I think we're talking about a really important topic today which is about your campaign, not Fear Free's campaign of the emergency stop.
Speaker B:But I think before we get into that specifically, because that is like specifically around driving instructors.
Speaker B:So before we get into that, I think it's important to find out a bit more about Fear Free and who you are.
Speaker B:So do you want to tell us a bit about Fear Free and then potentially your role there as well?
Speaker C:Sure.
Speaker C:So, yes, I'm the chief exec of Fear Free, so my background has always been within human rights, children's rights and supporting people in the charity sector.
Speaker C:So Fear Free is an organization which supports anybody affected by domestic abuse, stalking and sexual violence.
Speaker C:So we have contracts across the Southwest that deal with frontline services.
Speaker C:So work one to one with people, deliver group work, work with like local authorities and police to support people who are affected by, like I said, domestic abuse, stalking and sexual violence for them to be able to recover and move on from their experiences, but then also support with like police prosecutions or criminalization of perpetrators of abuse.
Speaker B:And what's your role and a little bit of your background because now you've got quite a big background in safeguarding as well.
Speaker C:So like I said, my background has always been around safeguarding and people who have been exploited, particularly those in marginalized communities.
Speaker C:I'm also a child therapist, so I provide therapy to children and young people.
Speaker C:But yeah, have always also worked kind of in the campaigning arms, looking at where there's gaps in laws and legislation or practice and look to kind of find evidence and like I said, lobby to change laws so that we're further protecting people in the UK and across the world.
Speaker B:Let's talk about this campaign then, because this cropped up on my radar a few weeks back and I immediately thought I need to speak about this because I think it's such an important topic.
Speaker B:So do you want to tell us, I suppose initially what the emergency stop campaign is and potentially why you think it's necessary?
Speaker C:So this also just kind of cropped up on my radar as well, to be honest.
Speaker C:So it all came about because we had supported a young person who had been stalked by their driving instructor.
Speaker C:And so we were providing support and safety planning for that young person and that actually progressed onto a prosecution of that driving instructor that got a two year suspended sentence.
Speaker C:Point was that she was actually 17.
Speaker C:So she was 17 and quite vulnerable and in care herself.
Speaker C:And then from there, you know, it kind of got picked up by the media.
Speaker C:And then what happened was that we found that lots of other people came forward saying, actually this has happened to me.
Speaker C:And then it got picked up by the BBC and even more people came forward.
Speaker C:So we then started to see that actually this was becoming A real problem, which is then when I asked the question myself, well, surely under the sexual acts, such a Sexual Offences act, this is a position of trust.
Speaker C:So surely they're glasses of position of trust.
Speaker C:And that's when I realized that they weren't.
Speaker C:So there's a real loophole here for people who were gaining access to children, you know, under 18, that there wasn't any ways or laws that protected these young people.
Speaker C:And so that's why we then we decided this campaign for them to be added as a position of trust under the Sexual Offences Act.
Speaker B:What is this position of trust?
Speaker C: , sports coaches got added in: Speaker C:There was a loophole there, faith leaders also.
Speaker C:So what that means is that you are not allowed to have a sexual relationship with anybody under 18.
Speaker C:So where the confusion comes is obviously in the UK the consent starts at 16.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:So when you're in position of trust, it means that it's illegal for you to have any sexual contact with anybody under 18 because you're in the position of trust.
Speaker C:So you're in a position of power.
Speaker C:You potentially have quite a lot of influence over that young person.
Speaker C:So that's when you know you can then take advantage of somebody.
Speaker B:I'm right in thinking, and please correct me if I'm not, that technically we're working with 17 year olds in some cases, 16, you know, there's exceptions that in theory, in legality we could have a sexual relationship with that 16, 17 year old, but if we put on the position of trust, that would essentially outlaw that.
Speaker B:That would make that illegal.
Speaker C:It'd make it illegal and you could be prosecuted.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:The thing that I genuinely find curious about this is why we're not on it, because I didn't know this position of trust was a thing.
Speaker B:And I think this is a big flaw in our industry.
Speaker B:We have no safeguarding training.
Speaker B:That's mandatory.
Speaker B:Really, the only thing we get is a DBS check.
Speaker B:And I had no idea this position, a position of trust until I obviously stumbled across you guys.
Speaker B:Why do you think that we're not on that?
Speaker B:Especially when it was kind of other people were added recently.
Speaker C:So this is what I've asked myself to be honest.
Speaker C:And to be honest, there isn't.
Speaker C:It isn't just driving instructions, there's some tutor roles, for instance, that aren't on there, which I would say are teachers like the same as driving instructors?
Speaker C:You're teachers.
Speaker C:So why Aren't you included?
Speaker C:So I think the complexity comes because of the age of 16 being the age of consent.
Speaker C:And people are saying that you should give young people the freedom to explore their sexuality and have sexual relationships with who they wish, which is right.
Speaker C:And you know, we would support that absolutely, for children to have sexual relationships and explore and have that, you know, that freedom.
Speaker C:However, I think that like you said, what the thing that becomes a challenge and from my background in child exploitation is when there's a power inequality, right.
Speaker C:So when you've got somebody who as driving instructors do have a lot of say over whether somebody goes for their test, you know, whether they pass their test, if they're taking the test.
Speaker C:So I think that that's when it becomes an issue.
Speaker C:And you're also alone with a child, in this case 17 year old for, you know, long period of times.
Speaker C:You have their address and their number.
Speaker C:So like I said, I don't know why it wasn't included.
Speaker C:And like you said, I think that why would you, you know, the majority of driving instructors are not thinking, I'm going to become a driving instructor, so I've got access to 16, 17 months.
Speaker C:They're doing it because they love the profession.
Speaker C:They're not people that are coming to abuse.
Speaker C:And why would you think about it unless you're made aware of it?
Speaker C:And that's again, this is why this campaign is also just to raise awareness about that as an issue.
Speaker B:And I think that's such a big thing, the awareness of it, even if you don't end up getting the result that you would like.
Speaker B:I think raising awareness because I'm really naive with some stuff, I am.
Speaker B:And I think I may told this story before somewhere, but I can remember really early on when I became an instructor, I picked this young lasso, probably about 19 if I remember correctly, drove her to a nice quiet area because we need to start off in a quiet area and it's dark because she worked.
Speaker B:Sorry, I think she was at uni.
Speaker B:So we're doing a lesson at like 7pm at night, quiet side road, pitch black.
Speaker B:And I picked this young lass up.
Speaker B:I'm just thinking I'm not doing all.
Speaker B:And we did a really good lesson, end up lesson.
Speaker B:She gets out of car and then turns around and comes back.
Speaker B:So my medium thought is, oh God, I've done something wrong.
Speaker B:But she jumped, said, can I jump back in?
Speaker B:And I said, yeah.
Speaker B:I just wanted to thank you for being as nice as you were because I genuinely thought, because my name's Terry and spelled with a Y, admittedly.
Speaker B:But she said, I genuinely thought when I picked you, you were going to be female.
Speaker B:Because I used to work for a national school, because she'd had some issues in the past with males.
Speaker B:And I just thought.
Speaker B:I'd never even considered it.
Speaker B:I'd never considered it.
Speaker B:But for me, having gone through that, I was unable to tailor the way I deliver those lessons.
Speaker B:And now I try and take them to, where possible, you know, a more appropriate place, not just for the driving, but for the.
Speaker B:The person.
Speaker B:So do you think that by raising that awareness, other people won't have to make the mistake?
Speaker B:I did.
Speaker B:And we'll actually think about that stuff in advance?
Speaker C:Yes, absolutely.
Speaker C:And I think, you know, like, like I said, my whole career has been in safeguarding, so this is something that I'm really aware of.
Speaker C:But if you haven't had that background, which many driving instructors would not have had, why would you even think about it?
Speaker C:You know, you wouldn't.
Speaker C:And I think that where a really clear change that we could have is in the DBSA code of conduct, the guidance that they have.
Speaker C:Because when I was looking at that, like I said, this also goes wider than just children and young people, but like you said, just everybody that, who you're instructing, that I think there should be clear guidance about boundaries around things like physical contact, how you behave, things about, like you said, keeping yourself, if you're driving alone with somebody in a place that's dark and you know, you're.
Speaker C:You potentially could be opening yourself up to allegations.
Speaker C:And so also I think it's about driving instructors protecting them themselves also.
Speaker C:And yeah, just having some clear boundaries about what appropriate conduct is that are clear in the code of conduct.
Speaker C:So driving instructors can then, you know, help to create those safety spaces themselves as well, as well as protecting their clients.
Speaker B:So you mentioned earlier about the power dynamic, and I think there'll be some people listening that don't necessarily get that, because as instructors, we're trying to become more coaches now as well, so that, that it's not a master and a subservient.
Speaker B:It's very much equal.
Speaker B:So can you explain what you mean when you talk about power dynamic?
Speaker C:And I understand.
Speaker C:So I'm a CEO and often I find it hard when people are saying that I'm intimidating and you know, and I.
Speaker C:People are nervous when I walk into the room and it's because I am in a position of power.
Speaker C:I'm the CEO.
Speaker C:And you sometimes, you know, when you're a nice person, don't think about that.
Speaker C:It's hard, but basically what that means is that you're in a position where you can have quite a lot of authority and like power over someone in the sense of in dry, open instructors cases, you know, you, someone is coming to you to gain a skill, you know, and I suppose if you're looking outside at the moment, you do need a car.
Speaker C:You need to be able to drive a car for most jobs, you know, so it's really important that people pass their driving test, right?
Speaker C:So when you're the driving instructor, you're basically, you know, they're at your mercy in a sense of being able to learn to drive.
Speaker C:You know, the driver instructor will give guidance on when they should go to their test, you know, can elongate lessons, say I think you need more lessons, you know, telling them what to do are teaching them, you know, you're in a position of same as a teacher.
Speaker C:So that's what we mean by power of trust.
Speaker C:And what that means is that you potentially could take advantage of that if you were in that way.
Speaker C:So if you were becoming a driving instructor, which I believe this is where there's, there's a massive hole here that you could potentially become a driving instructor to gain access to people that you have power over on and then take advantage of that.
Speaker C:But like you said by maybe saying, well, actually you need more lessons and you know, I need to see you more times and think that's where the risk is.
Speaker B:Find it interesting because like you've touched on it a couple of times as well about making sure that the instructors are in taking advantage of in that sense as well, because that applies there as well in that we don't want to give the impression that we try.
Speaker B:You know, you can't take a test if you don't do this thing.
Speaker B:So we have to be very careful with how we say stuff.
Speaker B:So I mean, I'm pretty sure I know what your answer is going to be here, but safeguarding isn't mandatory.
Speaker B:But would you still be advising driving insurance go and take some kind of formal safeguarding training.
Speaker C:And I would argue that it should be mandatory, like for lots of professions.
Speaker C:And again, I think that there's lots of free safeguarding out there.
Speaker C:So again, today, you know, driving structures could go out and look at free like, like safeguarding courses that they can go on.
Speaker C:And so I would just say it helps you as driving instructors anyway to understand and understand legislation and keep yourself safe yourselves.
Speaker C:But I think it should be mandatory.
Speaker C:Like you said, DBSs, you have DBSs already, which is.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:But I think it should be mandatory that everybody does safeguarding training.
Speaker B:And I just want to come back to the personal trust aspect because I'm curious what difference that would make.
Speaker B:So I'm a driving instructor.
Speaker B:If I'm on this, if I'm a person of trust, what difference does that actually make to me?
Speaker C:So the one thing is, the difference it would make to you is, I suppose by being.
Speaker C:By understanding that it would understand and be really clear about the boundaries of your relationship that you're having with your clients.
Speaker C:But more so if there is somebody out there who's looking to abuse that position of trust, as in the case, you know, that we had with the.
Speaker C:He then groomed her, basically, you know, while he was teaching her, he groomed her and then stalked her.
Speaker C:And we've had.
Speaker C:Like I said, there was a.
Speaker C:The BBC did a freedom of Information request and they had.
Speaker C: complaints over: Speaker C:I think it was like sexual.
Speaker C:Sexual, like assaults or complaints about driving structures.
Speaker C:So, you know, that's quite a lot.
Speaker C:So it will make a difference, like I said, by being clear about.
Speaker C:For them also your clients around that it's position of trust.
Speaker C:So if there's something does happen that they can then complain and then there could be weight behind that.
Speaker C:Like if it's against the law, it's against the law.
Speaker C:So then that could be investigated and that person could be criminalized in that instance.
Speaker B:Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker B:I find the whole thing, maybe this is the wrong word, but fascinating because like you said, there's 500 complaints.
Speaker B:Was it from 21 to 23?
Speaker B:And you think that's potentially the tip of the iceberg, because you'll know this from obviously what you do.
Speaker B:I imagine there's an awful lot of people that don't come forward.
Speaker C:Yeah, absolutely there is.
Speaker C:And like you said, we already have had people.
Speaker C:Like, when I've been speaking to it with my groups of friends, to be honest, lots of them have said, you know what, actually, I didn't feel safe or comfortable with my driving.
Speaker C:Truck driver didn't even think about what I'd have to do to complain.
Speaker C:As part of the campaign, we are also asking for an independent complaints body, because at the moment you can.
Speaker C:What they advise is you complain directly to the driver instructor yourself.
Speaker C:If they're part of a company, you complain to them.
Speaker C:Or there is a government website you can go through to the DVSA themselves.
Speaker C:Like what we would ask was independent complaints body that makes it really clearer and simpler for people to complain.
Speaker C:That's got people that are trained in understanding this and is going to be able to obviously deal with it independently, with autonomy.
Speaker C:So we would like to see that.
Speaker C:But, yeah, I think at the moment it wouldn't be clear how to complain.
Speaker C:And people may be fearful because, like I said, they're paying for it.
Speaker C:They want to learn to drive.
Speaker C:And, you know, right now I think it's.
Speaker C:I think now there's more risk because it's actually hard, isn't it, to get driving driving lessons at the moment.
Speaker C:There's massive waiting lists, there's price decisions to make.
Speaker C:It's quite expensive now for people, right.
Speaker C:So if they're finding someone who's maybe a bit cheaper, they maybe not want to rock that boat because they don't want to pay more, for instance.
Speaker C:So there's lots of ways that somebody looking to exploit someone could use to kind of entice people to use their service.
Speaker B:Keen for your opinion on this, because in the past I've had students have come to me that have leftover instructors, and sometimes the reason I've left that instructor is, I'll use the term of one student specifically was a dirty old man.
Speaker B:And I think we go to test centers and we'll talk amongst ourselves and we're all aware of the person that's got that reputation.
Speaker B:So when we hear that as instructors, whether it's from a pupil or we hear the rumor, if you like, what should we do with that information?
Speaker C:So, again, this is when I'm saying it should be really clear in the code of conduct, right?
Speaker C:And I think that then I think if you're working for a company, they should also have really code of conduct and policies that if there was a complaint, like, as you, as a staff member, you should be able to go and say, actually, I just have concerns about this person.
Speaker C:And this isn't necessarily going to the police and criminalize things.
Speaker C:It might not be as serious as that, but they could be breaking the code of conduct.
Speaker C:You know, if there's.
Speaker C:This is what we say in all safeguarding.
Speaker C:If you've got a gut feeling about something, normally there's some truth in that, right?
Speaker C:There's nothing wrong with kind of bringing that forward and talking to your line manager and saying, actually, I have concerns about this individual, and then that can be managed through performance issues.
Speaker C:Again, because it could be that there's, you know, behaving in a way that he's not realizing how he's coming across.
Speaker C:So Then that could be managed through speaking to, you know, within his.
Speaker C:His person he works for, having a conversation around.
Speaker C:Actually, this behavior is.
Speaker C:Is coming across and maybe just check your behavior or think about working, behaving like this.
Speaker C:Again, to go back to safeguarding training, that would be something, a safeguarding training would help because then that would approach things about how you behave and how you interact and how you talk to people and how you come across, you know, because again, you know, the majority of complaints coming forward are from women, you know, and I think for males in those positions, I think it's just being aware, like the story that you said about actually the experience of women and some of the reservations they may have about being alone with a man in the car, which may heighten their interpretation of behavior or things that are said or, you know, the way that the instructor behaves in a car.
Speaker B:We've spoke about it a little bit today around safeguarding training, how it's not mandatory and that kind of stuff.
Speaker B:And we've said your background so heavily in safeguarding, so I just wondered if you would have any almost advice or top tips for the instructors that are listening that maybe are coincidence, really blind, almost.
Speaker C:Well, I would say for anybody, for any company out there, that they should have a safeguarding policy and process, by the way, also.
Speaker C:So that's something that companies can do and that's anybody more than one really around having if someone makes a complaint how you safeguard and who you report to.
Speaker C:But I would say there's lots of, like, look at the NSPCC website, you know, there's information on there which talks about what abuse is, what color price abuse, and some diets around safeguarding on there.
Speaker C:There is free safeguarding out there, but again, if you're working for a company, I would speak to them about getting some safeguarding training.
Speaker C:It's not a massive cost, but I do also think it's a cost, you know, to most businesses that are working with children, young people or vulnerable adults, or adults at risk.
Speaker C:Safeguarding is just a mandatory part of what they do.
Speaker C:And that's what it.
Speaker C:That's what it should be.
Speaker C:But I would just say, you know, if you were to Google safeguarding and what safeguarding means, you know, there's lots of free resources that you could get out and look at how you could behave, you know, how your behaviour might impact others.
Speaker C:So, yeah, I would just go out and just do a bit of research.
Speaker B:Look on Scotland.
Speaker B:The Scotland government have recently made an announcement that said it's become a legal requirement for all driving instructors and potential driving instructors operating in Scotland to become members of the.
Speaker B:Let me get this right, Protecting Vulnerable Group Scheme.
Speaker B:So I'm just wondering what your thoughts are on this.
Speaker B:Is this a step in the right direction?
Speaker C:Almost, Yeah, I think, yes, I think it is.
Speaker C:And I suppose, like in England and Wales, you have the dbs, right, which is the same.
Speaker C:So that's the closure and barring service, where, you know, that's.
Speaker C:But ultimately that is just if you've been convicted of an offence, right, that doesn't bring up if there's been any other concern.
Speaker C:So it's kind of only as good as the date that it comes out.
Speaker C:And that's the issue of DBS's.
Speaker C:But no, I think that is a step in the right direction.
Speaker C:But like I said, for us, I think within the Sexual Offences act, making it really clear within that would really help, I think, because that sense of really, you know, whenever there's a change in legislation and law, that the like, often the funding, you know, you might find there's some funding available within for driving instructions available then to get.
Speaker C:To protect themselves and to get some training and then it follows.
Speaker C:But yes, I think that, like I was saying to you before, I think that most parents or people, if they knew this, would be quite surprised.
Speaker C:I think that if you think about the amount of population that we.
Speaker C:We have, the amount of people that want to drive, driving is a really important aspect of our lives now in terms of our working career, I think they would be quite shocked that the driving instructors are not included in this.
Speaker C:The same as a teacher would be or a sports coach, because of the time that they have with young people.
Speaker C:Like I said, they know their address, they've got their phone number, they're spending time alone in the car with no one else in there.
Speaker C:Like, for me, I couldn't believe it myself because I wasn't aware of it until we had looked into it.
Speaker B:Coming back to the campaign and the Emergency Stop campaign, I fully support this campaign, I fully endorse it and I'm keen to know what's the end goal.
Speaker C:So.
Speaker C:Well, the end goal for me in particular is to make sure that people are protected and can be safe learning to drive.
Speaker C:And I think I mean both that for potentially victims, abuse, but like I said, also for driving instructors if they're not left.
Speaker C:I can imagine people listening to this and how you may feel is, oh, my goodness, now I feel so unsafe, like, I don't know, because there isn't clear guidance.
Speaker C:Like, how do I make sure that I'm keeping myself safe and I'm not seen as this dirty old man or person that's going to abuse.
Speaker C:And I really understand that.
Speaker C:So my end goal is that we, you know, we create some awareness about it, but we do, you know, my hope is that we do have that change in Sexual Offenses act and out of it comes from guidance of driving instructors around safeguarding, around how they behave and how they keep themselves and the people that they're supporting safe.
Speaker C:And ultimately then hopefully would make it more attractive for those wanting to be driving instructions as well that they will be protected.
Speaker C:Because I can imagine again, particularly as a male, you know, sometimes you do feel quite vulnerable because especially like if you're somebody who's a good human being who wants to, you know, has just had profession, you're not thinking about abusing someone, are you?
Speaker C:So I can imagine this could be quite scary.
Speaker C:So again, it's about providing that safety net for people in that profession.
Speaker B:Also it is scary.
Speaker B:You know, I give my example before the young lady, the was nerves about getting the car.
Speaker B:I mean, I took her somewhere not inappropriate, it was appropriate for a driving lesson, but not ideal for that scenario.
Speaker B:And that was my kind of first introduction to it.
Speaker B:And, and I got scared, you know, and like you said, I don't want to be perceived this way.
Speaker B:What if I do smoke wrong and, you know, all this stuff going through my brain and I've since gone and taken safeguarding, trading and for anyone listening, just to reassure them, it does reassure you, having that training, you know, if you're a good person, it reassures you that 99.9% of what you're doing is fine.
Speaker B:Maybe just one thing, keep an eye on or whatever, but it's.
Speaker B:I think that's great.
Speaker B:But.
Speaker B:And like I said, I'm fully supportive of this campaign.
Speaker B:If people wanted to find out more or get involved almost, what could they do?
Speaker C:So look at our website.
Speaker C:If you look@fearfree.org.uk we are, you know, we've got lots of information on there.
Speaker C:I would say that any of your listeners that they've been affected by this and wants us to speak to us about buys, just pop up, you know, pick up the line and just call us.
Speaker C:But we are.
Speaker C:So we're kind of, you know, the beginnings of this campaign, we're going to be doing some roundtables, we've got some MPs involved and we'll be doing some kind of lobbying and events.
Speaker C:So anyone that wants to come to those and Join in the discussion also.
Speaker C:Welcome to do so.
Speaker C:And yeah, like you were saying, also look at.
Speaker C:You can go out now and get some safeguarding training or find out some more information.
Speaker C:So just do that if you're feeling concerned.
Speaker C:You know, I would also say that we're looking to work the gvsa, right.
Speaker C:And speak to them.
Speaker C:But if anyone wants to come forward and get involved in the campaign or have some information advice, please do come forward as well.
Speaker B:Do you think that you will get what you want and get the.
Speaker B:This put on the person of, I say, a person of interest.
Speaker B:That's the wrong phrase.
Speaker B:Person of trust.
Speaker C:I would hope so.
Speaker C:I would hope so that we can change it.
Speaker C:We'll definitely give it a good go.
Speaker C:I think it's quite a simple ask, but let's see.
Speaker C:But I suppose along the way, if we can, like said, if we could even speak to GFSA about changing their code of conduct and get driving schools and driving instructors to think about safeguarding, you know, that that's also a major change because what we're ultimately looking, like you said, the end goal is to reduce the abuse of people who are trying to learn to drive.
Speaker C:And the other thing that I would say on top of this, remember, about safeguarding training, so it's not only about just thinking about yourself, is that the other thing that you've got is that because you're a position of trust, you know, there's a flip side of it that you're with somebody alone in a car, which then maybe as you're driving up, conversations start, you're seeing things.
Speaker C:You may see things when they're picking up.
Speaker C:There may be things that you as driving instructors identify, things like domestic abuse, things like child abuse that you might see.
Speaker C:And then if you've got that training, know what to do with it, because actually you can make the difference to someone's life.
Speaker C:So there could be abuse happening outside of, you know, the environment of the driving instructor that actually you may be able to identify by taking safeguarding training and then report and then, you know, help someone into safety.
Speaker C:They're in an abusive relationship, for instance.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Do you know what?
Speaker B:I think that's missed a lot.
Speaker B:It's not just about that, us and them.
Speaker B:It's.
Speaker B:It's what we can see.
Speaker B:And, you know, I've had instances like that in the past and it's.
Speaker B:It's not always easy to deal with.
Speaker B:But is there anything else that you want to touch on, anything else you want to get across today?
Speaker C:I suppose the other the other things that I.
Speaker C:I would maybe recommend to do is to have potentially signage, you know, like in your, you know, like how you go, how you've got signs, you know, if you go on the underground or like, if you abuse our staff, you'll be prosecuted or whatever.
Speaker C:Like maybe something like that about saying, we understand that this is a safe, you know, here is a safe place if you've got any worries or complaints.
Speaker C:I don't know if you already have that.
Speaker C:I assume maybe there is in some cars, but this is where you go to complain, or if you've got concerns, this is where you go.
Speaker C:So that's really clear for people coming into your car so that then they know that you're taking that seriously.
Speaker C:Do you know what I mean?
Speaker C:I think that would make a real difference to people.
Speaker C:And like I said, potentially looking at this is how the expected behavior of driving instructors, I speak to your, you know, your workplaces and see if there's, like, you can look at the code of conducts like the dry instructors potentially have in their cars and things like that.
Speaker C:I think there's simple things that you could do tomorrow that would make a big difference to the people looking to, you know, getting your car.
Speaker B:I think that's a great idea because hands up, that's not something I do.
Speaker B:And I'm just immediately thinking of the driving test centre and seeing notice up there saying that examiners will not tolerate abuse.
Speaker B:And if you've got a complaint, go here.
Speaker B:And I'm like, do you know what?
Speaker B:That's something I could put in my terms and conditions.
Speaker B:It's something on that first lesson, I can say the shootlor.
Speaker B:If you've got any problems with me, this is, well, maybe not any problems, but, you know, a serious problem.
Speaker B:You will go here, a little problem come to me.
Speaker B:But, yeah, do you know what?
Speaker B:I think that's a great shout.
Speaker B:But I think I'd also like to ask you what you would say to instructors that are listening to this that are feeling like maybe like they're being attacked a little bit.
Speaker C:Yeah, no, I really get that.
Speaker C:And I definitely.
Speaker C:It's not my intention to attack, you know, anybody.
Speaker C:And like I said, I can imagine it's quite scary.
Speaker C:And ultimately we need driving instructors, we need good driving instructors.
Speaker C:So what I would say is, you know, this.
Speaker C:We're talking about a very small group of people that would be targeting this profession because there is this loophole to abuse children or others.
Speaker C:Ultimately, I think that there's a general understanding that most people going to be Driving instructors are good, decent people who are looking to support people to learn to drive because it's an important part of our life.
Speaker C:So I would say that, you know, hopefully that doesn't put you off.
Speaker C:I think that hopefully there is these safeguards to our campaign get put in place, people feel safer.
Speaker C:But then like we've talked about things that you can do to safeguard yourself.
Speaker C:You know, go on safeguarding training, know the legislation and the law around safeguarding so that you keep yourself safe.
Speaker C:And I think that, like you said, I think when you do that safeguarding, you realize it isn't as scary as you think.
Speaker C:Sometimes people say safeguarding and it's, it's something that people freak out about, but ultimately it's just about keeping people safe and the majority of people are good, decent people, like we said, and it's not going to apply to you.
Speaker B:Would you like to take a moment just to remind people where they can find you if they want to find out more?
Speaker C:So our organization is fearfree.org uk so you can find about our campaign there.
Speaker C:If you want to find information about safeguarding, I would just say Google safeguarding, look at the NSPCC and there's information there on safeguarding children.
Speaker B:Well, I will include links for this stuff in the show notes, but I just want to take a moment to thank you for joining me today.
Speaker B:It's been an interesting and what I think is an important chat as well.
Speaker B:And I wish you every luck with the campaign as well.
Speaker C:Thank you so much.
Speaker C:Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker B:So, a big thank you to Debbie Beadle for kicking things off with some proper food for thought.
Speaker B:It's a really important conversation and yeah, I really do think that the role of a driving shooter should be a position of trust.
Speaker B:But just before we dive into my next chat with James Luckhurst, if you're listening and thinking I could do more of this kind of stuff in my life, then it might be time to check out the instructor podcast.
Speaker B:Premium membership.
Speaker B:It's where the best bits live.
Speaker B:Extra content, expert interviews, behind the scenes insights and a bunch of tools to help you level up both in and out of the car.
Speaker B:And best of all, you can try it completely free for a week.
Speaker B:There's no catch.
Speaker B:Just dive in and see what you think.
Speaker B:Now head over to theinstructorpodcast.com to get started or use the link in the show notes.
Speaker B:But for now, let's crack on with James and his talk around blue lights, bike rides and how not to panic when an ambulance appears.
Speaker B:In your rearview mirror.
Speaker B:So we're now joined by founder of Project Edward, friend of the show, and friend of mine, James Luckhurst.
Speaker B:How are we doing, James?
Speaker A:I'm so well.
Speaker A:How are you, Terry?
Speaker A:It's lovely to be back with you.
Speaker B:Yeah, always better to see your smiley face, always.
Speaker B:So I got you on today because Project Edward and Jem, Motoring Assist.
Speaker B:I've got a webinar lined up, Blue Lights Away.
Speaker B:Webinar that I think is going to be perfect for driving instructors.
Speaker B:But before we get into that, do you want to tell us a little bit about Blue Lights Away?
Speaker A:Blue Light Away is a resource that I dreamt up in response to demand.
Speaker A:And I can remember exactly where it was.
Speaker A:It was a conference about 15 years ago, maybe a little bit more, for the emergency service driving industry, and they wanted better communication so that members of the public, like you and me, know what to do when there's a blue light driver coming through.
Speaker A:So, long story short, we made a video for them which went down really well.
Speaker A:It lasted 15 minutes, which these days is seen as a little long.
Speaker A:Thought it was excellent and would happily sit and watch it again, but.
Speaker A:And it got Gerry on for a million views on YouTube and it was downloaded by loads of emergency service organizations.
Speaker A:And the great thing about it was they played it to their drivers as well.
Speaker A:So that was that sort of better communication.
Speaker A:So not only was it explaining to members of the public what to do that would help them stay safe and stay legal, but it was also helping the emergency driver understand the expectations of the member of the public who might be in front of them at a traffic light and urged not to go through the red traffic light, however much the emergency car is sort of encouraging them to do so, shall we say?
Speaker A: Anyway, that was: Speaker A: including animations in about: Speaker A:And we're just in the process of working through them.
Speaker A:I think there are 10 of them, to put young faces, young voices into them, to make them as relevant as possible for young drivers.
Speaker B:I first came across these before I came across you, and I had no idea there were anything to do with you.
Speaker B:And I've shared them with all my learners and I think a lot of instructors have done the same.
Speaker B:I think there's a lot of instructors out there that love these videos because they demonstrate it so well.
Speaker B:It's one of the best almost road safety resources I've come across.
Speaker B:I stand by that and I will put it in the show.
Speaker B:Notes for anyone that's listening that hasn't come across it to go and check it out.
Speaker B:But has it had the impact you hoped it would?
Speaker A:Very much so.
Speaker A:Particularly with.
Speaker A:There's one video that seems to work so well.
Speaker A:We have.
Speaker A:Every three months or so we do a mini campaign using social media because the little videos work really well on social media.
Speaker A:Don't ask me why, Terry, but there's one video all about double white line systems that gets picked up by.
Speaker A:There was last year, I think in one of our campaigns it had more than a million hits.
Speaker A:Just that one video.
Speaker A:Now explain that to me.
Speaker A:I don't know why, but we're pleased that it is having an impact.
Speaker A:The emergency services organizations that we talk to are very happy that it, that it exists and that they seem to be sharing it around.
Speaker A:There's still loads to do, you know, there's so many people who won't have even heard of it.
Speaker A:But we're pushing it out as far and wide as we can and we check.
Speaker A:It's checked every year I make sure that we have.
Speaker A:There's a little panel of experts from each of the services who just give it a once over to make sure it's still represents good practice.
Speaker A:And so far it does.
Speaker B:I like that you're updating it for the younger generation if you like, because I think that's who it works best on.
Speaker B:Because from my experience sharing it with my younger learners works really well.
Speaker B:But when I've shared it, for example, I shouldn't say this in case he listens, but when I've shared it with my dad, he's a bit like if there's an ambulance behind me, I'm going through that red light to make sure because I don't want to hold any, you know, even after watching the video, still gets a bit like that, sort of.
Speaker B:Do you think that's who we need to focus on, that younger generation so that then sweeps through rather than the older generation.
Speaker A:The primary focus should be on the younger generation, I think.
Speaker A:But I would just suggest to your dad that he should never need to go through a red light because an emergency services driver will have anticipated that the lights might be changing.
Speaker A:And I speak as someone who's been trained in that kind of.
Speaker A:I did a response driving course with the ambulance service so, you know, I'm looking ahead as the blue light driver and if I'm on blue lights, I'm out there already.
Speaker A:I'm owning that bit of the road and being big and bear like as I head up on the wrong side of the road, because that's telling everybody what I want them to do, which is to give me space to get through.
Speaker A:I'm not asking them to do anything dangerous or illegal in helping me get through.
Speaker B:I like it.
Speaker B:I will pass that on to my dad.
Speaker B:But you do have this webinar coming up on the 17th of June at 11am and this is around that.
Speaker B:So you want to tell us a bit about this webinar.
Speaker A:The webinar's going to be really interesting.
Speaker A:I think we're pleased that we have Dr.
Speaker A:Helen Wells, who chairs the Rhodes Policing Academic Network.
Speaker A:She's a criminologist with an interest in this particular area.
Speaker A:I think she's currently seconded to the Department for Transport to do work on it.
Speaker A:In fact, from Ambulance we have Paul Tolley, from police, Roger Gardner, and from Fire, Kevin Dell.
Speaker A:And also Lisa Daniels from the stationary office.
Speaker A:Now, she's there because the stationary office publishes Roadcraft, which is the police advanced driving manual.
Speaker A: hat became available in about: Speaker A:And that's just having a big refresh.
Speaker A:So she's going to tell us what's new into that.
Speaker A:I think there's electric vehicles, semi autonomous vehicles.
Speaker A:I mean, it's Roadcraft.
Speaker A:Taking a look into the future.
Speaker A:So I'm particularly interested to hear about that.
Speaker A:So I think it'll be really a really good use of an hour, lots of questions to answer, and the panel will be there to take those questions.
Speaker B:Let's put you on the spot slightly.
Speaker B:When I turn up, what am I going to take away from this webinar, do you think?
Speaker B:What's going to be the benefit?
Speaker A:To me, I hope you will be able to understand life on the road through the eyes of an emergency service driver.
Speaker A:And it might help you with your empathy, with your thinking, with your kind of willingness to participate and who knows, it might improve your anticipation and kind of that dynamic risk assessment that we're all supposed to be doing.
Speaker A:But maybe we could all do a little bit better in terms of anticipating early what's happening on your journeys.
Speaker A:So that I always like to say that by doing that, if you anticipate and you kind of looking ahead and thinking what could happen here, and if you're doing that effectively, hopefully as little as possible will come as a surprise and there won't be any kind of unpleasant after Effects like you won't mount the curb so you won't hurt or damage your tyres and then you won't try and make a claim against an emergency services organization that won't pay because it said we never asked you to melt the curb in the first place.
Speaker A:So I think it'll just encourage you, Terry, to have a better understanding of what they need, but also what they don't want you to do.
Speaker B:Of course, as a driving instructor, if I've got a better understanding, I can pass that knowledge on.
Speaker B:So I mean, look, you know, let's be honest, 11am can be a tricky time for instructors.
Speaker B:But instructors listening to this, get in your diaries and come along because I think this is going to be one worth attending.
Speaker B:And I will put links again in the show notes and the mini workbook that goes along with this.
Speaker B:But I also wanted to ask you about another little adventure you've been on recently with your project, Edward Hat On, I believe, which is a very specific horse ride he did.
Speaker B:So do you want to tell us about that?
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker A:We went from Lambourne in West Berkshire to Windsor on a five day ride to raise awareness of the highway code rule about passing horses at a minimum distance of 2 metres and a maximum speed of 10 miles an hour.
Speaker A:So basically slow and wide.
Speaker A:That was done in association with the British Horse Society.
Speaker A:Lambourn was chosen for the start point because it was the site of where a young racehorse, Nocala was, was killed on the road last year and Windsor.
Speaker A:Well, we just thought why don't we give it a go.
Speaker A:We, we contacted Windsor Hall Show.
Speaker A:Would you like us to ride into your main arena at the end of our ride?
Speaker A:And they said, yeah, all right then.
Speaker A:So that was all sorted.
Speaker A:And I think looking, I'm not Terry, I'm not very good at social media and understanding it, but from what I gather it was a terrific success on social media with loads of retweeting and all the things that people do with social media.
Speaker A:Lots of impressions, lots of sharing and some great coverage we had on BBC1 on the Monday morning we were live.
Speaker A:We rode off as the 9 o' clock news on Monday morning was about to start for that last minute of the breakfast program.
Speaker A:We were live at the start of our ride, the three amigos riding off over the hill from Lambourne, plus a couple of interviews that BBC Breakfast did earlier that morning.
Speaker A:We were on Jeremy vine on the Wednesday and various local, I think something on sky on the Friday.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker A:Oh yeah, the coverage was excellent and we were supposed to have Sara Cox as one of the riders from Radio 2, but she had been deployed to Eurovision and so couldn't join us.
Speaker A:But she did a brilliant thing on Instagram, which picked up a huge kind of following.
Speaker A:So very happy with the impact that it made.
Speaker A:As a rider myself over the five days, I'd have to say that probably 98% of the many, many drivers that we passed or who passed us, who came into contact with us were positive, helpful and willing to just hold back a little bit and follow our arm signals, you know, to slow down a bit or just to stop while we changed position for our point of view.
Speaker A:We didn't let traffic queues build up.
Speaker A:You know, there were lots of busy roads, but we would simply just pull in onto driveways or lay bys just to make sure that and everything could get past us with a minimum of, of disruption.
Speaker A:I think there was quite a good bit from my point of view, because only a handful of drivers didn't heed the warnings of, you know, slow and wide.
Speaker A:One was a pickup truck driver coming towards us down a country lane on day three of the ride.
Speaker A:But we were escorted at this particular point by two mounted officers from Thames Valley Police.
Speaker A:So one at the front, one at the back.
Speaker A:We were in single file.
Speaker A:The one at the front had his body worn, activated body worn camera.
Speaker A:And a pickup truck was coming towards us, wasn't slowing down, wasn't slowing down, coming tearing past us.
Speaker A:Driver wasn't even aware of us, head down, hand holding phone and texting or whatever he was doing.
Speaker A:So that particular driver, probably by now Terry, will have received notice of intended prosecution and will be heading towards being 200 pounds worse off with six points for paying no attention whatsoever and getting the mobile phone ticket.
Speaker B:It's a little bit like driving instructors because we're on the road a lot, so we see a lot of the negative stuff that goes on as well, but it stands out more.
Speaker B:We don't always notice the good driving, we notice the negative.
Speaker B:And is that potentially the same on that, that basically that five day ride just done, you might not always notice the good stuff, but you notice the bad stuff.
Speaker B:But also the bad stuff can be a lot more damaging because if something goes wrong with that, then that doesn't end well.
Speaker A:I hope that we notice the good, because part of the, I think the responsibility of riding a horse on the road is acknowledging the helpfulness of another road user.
Speaker A:So we made a point, you know, thank you, thank you, thank you.
Speaker A:And it was that that was happening all the Time because people were being helpful or just going past slow and wide.
Speaker A:And it was really important that we were seen not to be kind of, I don't know, snooty folk who felt they owned the road, but, you know, part of the traffic, we were part of the road environment.
Speaker A:We need to play our part as horse riders.
Speaker A:Hopefully most horse riders aren't going to be on the road very long because they're just going to try and get from the stable to where they want to ride on the field or the forest.
Speaker A:And the route we took was full of stables, so there were people who drive on those roads will be used to having horses on them.
Speaker A:So that's quite important.
Speaker A:We didn't just go out there and say, oh, let's take over this road and ride on it slowly and block everybody's way.
Speaker A:That wasn't the point at all.
Speaker A:And we didn't do that.
Speaker A:I think the highlight probably for me was on the Thursday we were.
Speaker A:So that's day four and we were doing a rider change.
Speaker A:Alan was jumping off and I was about to jump on this lovely big horse called Oakley.
Speaker A:And so I was about to get on Oakley and a van pulled up.
Speaker A:A driver wound the window down.
Speaker A:He said, are you the folks who are going to Windsor?
Speaker A:Were you the ones on Jeremy vine yesterday?
Speaker A:Yeah, that's us.
Speaker A:Oh, brilliant.
Speaker A:He said, I had no idea about that.
Speaker A:There was any kind of rule about horses, but it makes perfect sense, you know, good for you.
Speaker A:Please, you know, I'll be telling all my friends.
Speaker A:So, you know, that was.
Speaker A:That was a lovely highlight.
Speaker A:Really.
Speaker B:Well, I've got to admit, on a personal.
Speaker B:I do.
Speaker B:Maybe the highlight of my driving is when you get a thank you from a horse ride or a motorbike that you're overtaking, you get a little arm that just pops out.
Speaker B:Always enjoy that.
Speaker B:But, well, I've been wanting alone for a little while.
Speaker B:I've never got around to it, but.
Speaker B:So I'm going to ask you, what tip would you give to drivers?
Speaker B:Is there one thing that you would suggest around handling horses above anything else?
Speaker A:Yes, there is one tip, and that is to bear in mind that a rider will know what's going on.
Speaker A:It's hard for a driver to understand what a horse is feeling or thinking or possibly about to react to.
Speaker A:But there's a lot of things that the horse will see because of their vision and their height that the car driver probably doesn't see.
Speaker A:So, you know, just trust us that if we do ask you to slow down for a minute or just help us out.
Speaker A:It's not necessarily because of anything you've done.
Speaker A:So, you know, don't take it personally, but there might be something that's just going on in the field over the hedge that the horse can see, but you can't.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker A:And hopefully it will just be all over very shortly.
Speaker A:So, you know, and we will be very grateful.
Speaker A:And just by heeding that bit of advice, trusting that we kind of know what, why we're asking you, we're not just doing it because we're trying to be officious or trying to own the road, but by doing that, you're contributing to safer roads, which is a good thing.
Speaker B:Excellent.
Speaker B:I'm Project Edward.
Speaker B:I want to know what's coming up for Project Edward.
Speaker B:Any fun plans lined up at the minute, or.
Speaker A:We are hoping that we've got a little road trip planned for the middle of September.
Speaker A:We are having some good conversations with police and crime commissioners, and there's some really good work going on there.
Speaker A:And so, you know, amongst the different police forces, seeing who's doing what and what innovative kind of activities happening.
Speaker A:And I imagine police and crime commissioners will be front and center of this particular road trip.
Speaker A:I don't suppose we can get around all 43 in a week, but that's something that we'll be looking out for in mid September.
Speaker A:Our own podcast will be kicking in again twice monthly from mid June.
Speaker A:And I think on the 8th of December, we're moving into the Terrace Pavilion at the House of Commons for our annual road safety reception there.
Speaker A:And last year we got more than 30 MPs to come and join us, including the Rhodes minister.
Speaker A:And that was really, really good.
Speaker A:So we'll be doing that again and giving a big shout out for everyone who's helped us out along the way.
Speaker A:So you may even get an invitation yourself, Terence.
Speaker B:Be nice.
Speaker B:Although I'm more excited about seeing which incredibly handsome driving instructor makes the next appearance on the Project Edward podcast.
Speaker B:But no, I just want to take a moment to thank you, James, as always, it's always a pleasure speaking to you and having you on the show.
Speaker B:And yeah, really looking forward to this webinar.
Speaker B:So thank you for joining us today.
Speaker A:Thanks, Terry.
Speaker A:Always a pleasure, never a chore.
Speaker B:So that brings us to the end of today's episode, and I hope it's given you a lot to think about.
Speaker B:We've covered some heavy but important topics, and I want to take a moment now to really reflect on what this means for us as instructors.
Speaker B:So first up, I want to say a big thank you again to Debbie Beadle from Fear Free.
Speaker B:Her message is one.
Speaker B:Well, we can't ignore it.
Speaker B:Driving instructors should absolutely be recognized as people in a position of trust.
Speaker B:It's something we need to start shouting about more in this industry.
Speaker B:But just as important is a reminder that we also need to protect ourselves.
Speaker B:It's not just about safeguarding learners, it's about safeguarding instructors, too.
Speaker B:So please take a few minutes this week to check out the Fear Free campaign.
Speaker B:I've linked in the show notes and in the accompanying workbook.
Speaker B:And more than that, think about how you approach lessons.
Speaker B:I do enough to make sure you're not being put in vulnerable or uncomfortable situations.
Speaker B:You know, we often prioritize the learner, but your safety matters too.
Speaker B:And then, of course, we had James Luckhurst, a man who's doing brilliant work with the Blue Lights Aware campaign.
Speaker B:And if you've not watched your videos or shared it with your learners, do it seriously.
Speaker B:It's one of those resources that takes two minutes to share and could save someone's life.
Speaker B:And don't forget, there's a free webinar coming up that every instructor should be attending.
Speaker B:It's another step towards making a road safer.
Speaker B:And, well, that's what it's all about, really.
Speaker B:But before we wrap up completely, I want to leave you with a few things that you can act on straight away.
Speaker B:First of all, take a quick audit of how you behave on lessons.
Speaker B:Is there anything that you say or that could come across the wrong way?
Speaker B:Something slightly unprofessional or borderline?
Speaker B:It's not beating yourself up.
Speaker B:It's about being aware and reflecting and analyzing and seeing it as anything that you can change.
Speaker B:Secondly, start keeping a small diary.
Speaker B:If something even slightly untoward happens, whether it's to you or your student, write it down.
Speaker B:It could be useful later, and it helps you spot patterns that you might not see in the moment.
Speaker B:Thirdly, visit the Fear Free website and look at their campaign.
Speaker B:It's not just powerful, it's necessary.
Speaker B:And lastly, watch and share the Blue Light Away videos.
Speaker B:Even better, discuss it during lessons.
Speaker B:Awareness like this should be baked into what we teach.
Speaker B:And just before we disappear, I want to mention the instructor podcast.
Speaker B:Because if all of this has made you think I want to do more, but I'm not sure how, then that's exactly why I created the instructor podcast membership.
Speaker B:Inside, you'll find deep dive content that goes way beyond what I can cover on the public podcast.
Speaker B:We've got expert sessions, advanced teaching techniques, business development advice, mindset work.
Speaker B:Basically everything you need to grow as a professional, protect yourself and build a business you actually enjoy running.
Speaker B:So if you're feeling isolated, stuck, or just want a place to connect with people who get it, that's where the interactive take comes in.
Speaker B:Live sessions, group discussions, and a chance to ask questions in real time.
Speaker B:It's a community, not just a membership.
Speaker B:And the best part?
Speaker B:You can try it free for a week.
Speaker B:There's no commitment, there's no pressure.
Speaker B:Just come and see what it's like.
Speaker B:I think you'll feel the difference straight away.
Speaker B:Head to the instructorpodcast.com or check the link in the show notes to get started.
Speaker B:And as always, thank you for listening.
Speaker B:Thank you for being part of this community.
Speaker B:And remember, being a driving instructor is about so much more than helping people pass a test.
Speaker B:So let's keep raising standards and driving instructors to Vision Zero.
Speaker A:The instructor podcast with Terry Cook, talking with leaders, innovators, experts and game changers about what drives them.
