Why Men Struggle, and What We Can Do About It
In this special episode for Men’s Mental Health Awareness Month, Terry Cook is joined by returning guest Jono Poon for an honest and wide-ranging conversation about the struggles many men face.
They discuss why so many men find it hard to open up, the impact of cultural expectations, and how loneliness and comparison affect mental wellbeing. Jono shares personal stories and insights from his work with the Man Cave, offering practical tools for managing mental health and building real connections.
Whether you’re struggling or supporting someone who is, this episode is a powerful reminder: you’re not alone.
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Transcript
The Instructor Podcast with Terry Cook talking with leaders, innovators, experts and game changers.
Speaker B:About what drives them.
Speaker B:Welcome to the Instructor Podcast.
Speaker B:This is a show that helps you become an even more awesome driving instructor and keeps driving instructors towards vision zero.
Speaker B:As always, I am your wonderful host, Terry Cook.
Speaker B:I'm delighted to be here and I'm even more delighted that you have have chosen to listen because we are in the midst of Men's Mental Health Awareness Month and I'll let you guess how many it takes.
Speaker B:Took me to get all that in one go.
Speaker B:But either way, yes, we are in the midst of Men's Mental Health Awareness Month.
Speaker B:So that is what we are talking about today, Men's Mental Health.
Speaker B:And I'm delighted to be joined by Jon o' Poon, who's been on the show before on the podcast and he's been on the premium membership a couple of times as well.
Speaker B:He a few years ago joined up with a man cave and we explore a whole load of things there including why men struggle with mental health, how we can improve, and we actually get quite deep on some of our own personal experience as well.
Speaker B:So really hope that you find this useful.
Speaker B:And in the show notes I have included links to a lot of the resources we've spoken about today.
Speaker B:But just before we get into the episode, I want to remind you all that with these episodes comes an episode workbook.
Speaker B:Now these contain a quite a detailed summary of the episode.
Speaker B:There are reflective questions in there, there are key takeaways, there are quotes from the guests, and there are action points or things you want to go on action.
Speaker B:As a consequence of listening to this podcast, we also include links for further listening and all the links that we've had from today's show.
Speaker B:Now to get this, we send these out on the instructor podcast email.
Speaker B:So head to the show notes or go to the website www.theinstructorpodcast.com to sign up for the email.
Speaker B:And get this whenever I release an episode.
Speaker B:And don't worry if you've missed this one, you can sign up and we'll send out a follow up email later on in the month.
Speaker B:Go and sign up now@www.theinstructedpodcast.com.
Speaker B:but for now let's get stuck into the show.
Speaker B:When I decided to do a podcast for June's Men's Mental Health Awareness Month, the first person I thought of was John or Poon and I'm glad you say he's joining us today.
Speaker B:How are we doing, Jono?
Speaker A:Hey Terry, thank you for Having me here?
Speaker B:No, I really chuffed to get you on because I was a little bit late deciding to do this.
Speaker B:If I'm being honest, I think the, the month kind of crept up on me and I don't think we've ever really done anything on this show about men's mental health before.
Speaker B:And you know, there's a lot of instructors that are men, so there's a lot of males that listen and I love talking to you about this stuff.
Speaker B:Your whole thing is sort of mental health mindset and, you know, all this kind of shebang and I just think it's awesome.
Speaker B:So genuinely chuffed to have you on.
Speaker A:Thank you for having me.
Speaker A:Very much.
Speaker A:Appreciate it.
Speaker B:And you've come locked and loaded today because you've turned up and you told me you've got some stats which I haven't.
Speaker B:So I'm going to throw open to you to start with.
Speaker B:Share some of the stats you've got with us about sort of this, the men's mental health, if you like.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:So I've been volunteering for the last two and a half years now with a local men's mental health support group and the number that we flag up every meeting is that there are 14 plus men a day that kill themselves in a day in the uk.
Speaker A:And it's the mission of the community to reduce this number.
Speaker A:And we made it that every beginning of every meeting we would pay a moment's silence in memory of these people that are taking their lives every day.
Speaker A:Because some of them could have been us at that, at that point, you know, some of us have walked down our path.
Speaker A:We know how dark it could be and how troubling and challenging life can be at some times.
Speaker A:It can be very, very overwhelming and it's very, it's a very easy place to get to, as scary as it sounds, is a very easy place to get to.
Speaker A:And if you don't have the tools or the support network and the community, sometimes it's very hard to get yourself out of that hole.
Speaker A:And so that's why we, we emphasize on this statistic particularly because it's very alarming.
Speaker A:To be fair.
Speaker A:There's a lot of men that's just taking their own lives every day in the uk and these are husbands, partners, dads, you know, whatnot.
Speaker A:And they have family as well.
Speaker A:And it's very hard for the families to deal with the consequences when people leave suddenly or anything that that happens.
Speaker A:And there's something that I went through myself, you know, with bereavement of my dad last three years, three years ago now.
Speaker A:And I thought I had everything.
Speaker A:Control, under control.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:I thought I had known what I needed to do, what I needed to take care of.
Speaker A:But I was so lost.
Speaker A:I was so lost.
Speaker A:I, I was so overwhelmed with everything that I needed to do that I was trying to do, but at the same time trying to make sure everyone else around me was okay.
Speaker A:But I forgot that to check on myself and I, I was completely gone.
Speaker A:I disconnected from a lot of things.
Speaker A:I stopped.
Speaker A:I didn't even ask for help.
Speaker A:That's how bad it was because I was so overwhelmed.
Speaker A:And so, yeah, I understand how easy it is to get to that, that stage.
Speaker A:That's just one of the statistics like.
Speaker B:Your example you give there.
Speaker B:Do you think that's a symptom of, of men?
Speaker B:And I'm going to keep saying men.
Speaker B:You know, there's obviously exceptions to anything we talk about, but do you think that's a symptom of men being the protector and the provider?
Speaker B:So like your example there, you are looking after everyone else because you're the protector, the provider, the leader of the pack, if you like.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And that's one why we don't talk about things.
Speaker A:I think culture as well, you know, being brought up in, for those that aren't aware, I'm from a Chinese background culture, so a lot of, I think it's very similar.
Speaker A:To be fair, a lot of the, the beliefs that they led is, you know, men don't cry.
Speaker A:Men should be the provider, protector.
Speaker A:You should be suppressing your emotions, showing any emotions as weakness.
Speaker A:You don't show weaknesses to anyone.
Speaker A:You should be strong and prideful and, you know, whatever it is.
Speaker A:And it's just denying emotions really.
Speaker A:And it is, it, it makes it hard as well because you then grew up leading with that belief, oh, I shouldn't be crying if someone passed away close to me like.
Speaker A:Or you shouldn't be crying because this movie is sad.
Speaker A:You should be just stoic and just blank and show no emotions.
Speaker A:If you're with your partner or girlfriend or wherever it is and you're out, you know, on a date, you're watching a sad movie or, you know, you shouldn't show any emotions.
Speaker A:It's like, what, you know, you kind of like rob yourself from being human and, and we grew up leading to that belief and going, right, so if I show any emotions, I'm weak.
Speaker A:And anything that happens at all, they just, you just, you know, become like a robot and just blank and just not feel anything.
Speaker A:We.
Speaker A:We forget how to feel emotions at some point.
Speaker A:So it's like we know how they probably feel angry and stuff and frustrated and all of those things.
Speaker A:But why, why are we allowed to show anger and emotion and those kind of emotions, but not the other side of the emotions where, like, where we like depression, sadness?
Speaker A:We can't show any of those that we can show aggression.
Speaker A:Like, when is that okay?
Speaker A:That's not okay either.
Speaker A:You know, if you think about it, you shouldn't be shouting at people or being an aggressive manner or taking out on other people because you feel angry or feel frustrated.
Speaker A:Like, we forget how these feelings work at some points and we think it's okay to do it.
Speaker B:I must admit, I am at a point now where I happily embrace crying at films.
Speaker B:Have you seen the film Better Man?
Speaker B:Better man by any chance?
Speaker B:Robbie Williams 1?
Speaker A:I can't say I remember that one.
Speaker B:Okay, well, you haven't seen it then because I bawled my eyes out three times during that film.
Speaker B:That's just not SAT film.
Speaker B:But.
Speaker B:Yeah, but were you saying that, like, about the fear of.
Speaker B:Not the fear, the lack of emotion and not being able to talk?
Speaker B:I think I've got a slightly different perspective on this potential.
Speaker B:I'd really be interested in your thoughts on this, Jono, actually.
Speaker B:So I think there's an issue with people listening to men.
Speaker B:I think that there's an issue with men listening to other men.
Speaker B:I think a lot of men don't know how to listen and handle that.
Speaker B:You know, when another man comes to you, you don't know how to hug them, you don't know how to be with them.
Speaker B:You know, you do that man hug where your belt buckles don't touch because, you know, But I think there's also the.
Speaker B:There's an issue with women listening to men as well, I think.
Speaker B:And, you know, I might get told off for saying this, but whatever, because there's a lot of anecdotal evidence that when the man opens up in a relationship, that relationship comes to an end.
Speaker B:My relationship was like that.
Speaker B:And, you know, as much as we might not like to admit it, there's a lot of women that like to see the men as providers and protectors.
Speaker B:And then when all of a sudden they're seen visual, seen as weak, that can change.
Speaker B:So I think, I wonder how much of men not talking and not being open is because men and women and anyone else are not very good at listening to men.
Speaker A:Yeah, so that's a big issue because it's one that we See, often men not being heard, but also not feel, not feel it, not feel like they're being heard.
Speaker A:So when you say women not understanding men when they open up, is what's the women's beliefs on men being vulnerable?
Speaker A:Is that weakness?
Speaker A:Is it not a good thing that they're being vulnerable?
Speaker A:Like.
Speaker A:Like you said, is that like a dent in the armor?
Speaker A:Because.
Speaker A:Is that like a red flag?
Speaker A:Because they're showing emotions and it depends on how they've been brought up.
Speaker A:You know, maybe they've been brought up on to let.
Speaker A:To believe.
Speaker A:Our men shouldn't be crying.
Speaker A:They should be the provider, the protector, and like the.
Speaker A:The soldier and the warrior.
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker A:That kind of front, it's like, well, no, we're just human beings.
Speaker A:At the end, we have these emotions.
Speaker A:And here's the thing with suppressing emotions is that we bottle it all up, then we get frustrated, then we cause conflict, then we have arguments, but then we don't have.
Speaker A:Then resolve the argument.
Speaker A:We don't talk about it.
Speaker A:We don't open up to each other about what's going on, how we can solve this problem together.
Speaker A:You know, as partners in a relationship, you should be.
Speaker A:As a team, really, you should be aiming to solve problems together.
Speaker A:That's the whole point of being in the team, in the relationship.
Speaker A:You're there to solve problems that arise.
Speaker A:Like you.
Speaker A:You.
Speaker A:That's how it would work.
Speaker A:If you're in alignment, if you're clashing or conf.
Speaker A:Having conflicts about problems all the time, you need to review something.
Speaker A:Something is reviewing us completely.
Speaker A:And sometimes we don't feel safe to open up as men.
Speaker A:Um, like you said, there's no safe space or there's very rarely safe spaces where we can feel like we can open up, we can talk it out, we can hug each other and not feel awkward and feel judged.
Speaker A:Which is exactly what we do at the man cave is creating that safe space.
Speaker A:We're encouraging open conversations we're having, letting people share their challenges and not have and not judge them.
Speaker A:We're listening without trying to fix everything.
Speaker A:So we don't interrupt each other during the share.
Speaker A:There's a, you know, you share as long as you want, but no one's going to fix anything.
Speaker A:No one's going to give you suggestions unless you want it after the meeting.
Speaker A:You know, people come up to you afterwards and goes, hey, I had something similar that I went through.
Speaker A:This is how I overcame it.
Speaker A:It might work for you, it might not.
Speaker A:And another thing is challenging that stigma and the stigma of talking about mental health and vulnerability in men especially.
Speaker A:Like, if we're seeing as weak because we show emotions, then are we just being human beings or we should stop being human beings at all?
Speaker A:Like, what, what's the point of having emotions if.
Speaker A:If you're not to use it?
Speaker A:If you know, you, you feel the emotions, that's, that's what makes you feel alive because you have different emotions.
Speaker A:But there's also understanding how you can regulate these emotions, that it doesn't obviously ruin your life, where you're crying at every meeting you're attending or something like that, like, that's not going to help anyone, but.
Speaker A:And you know, being angry at any meeting, if you're always angry at every meeting you go to, how are you gonna resolve whatever you need to solve?
Speaker A:Like, it doesn't help with anything.
Speaker A:So creating that safe space, being patient and understanding, that's another one.
Speaker A:You know, listening takes a lot of patience because you don't want to be trying to fix people.
Speaker A:Usually you're just listening out what's going on, what's happening.
Speaker A:And I like how Simon Sinek puts.
Speaker A:This is like just sitting in the mud with them.
Speaker A:And yeah, at some point you get out together because there's only so long you can sit in the mud before you're like, let's just get up and clean ourselves up and carry on.
Speaker A:But there's a period where you will sit in the mud together.
Speaker A:And I think that's what that safe space should be.
Speaker A:You're sitting in the mud with them.
Speaker A:You know, you're listening out what's happening, what's going on.
Speaker A:Let them get everything off their chest, off the shoulders, and let it all out and being present and available.
Speaker A:You know, we're always so distracted by our phones and social media and all of this stuff.
Speaker A:And like, when you're talking to friends and stuff, do you have your phones in your pocket or do you have it on the table?
Speaker A:You know, and, and that's one thing.
Speaker A:I've made a habit.
Speaker A:It's just every time if I'm meeting someone, I put my phone in my pocket away.
Speaker A:So I'm not checking out, I'm not seeing anything.
Speaker A:And it's not on the table either.
Speaker A:So it's just you have my full attention.
Speaker A:Like even now my phone's away from my desk right now.
Speaker A:So I'm paying full attention to you, Terry.
Speaker B:It's appreciated.
Speaker B:But do you know what, though?
Speaker B:There's so much relevance and interesting stuff there, and I agree with it all.
Speaker B:And just that form one Resonates me because I meet a lot of people, you know, going on dates and stuff and friends and work stuff and like you, I try and make sure my phone's in my pocket.
Speaker B:There's the odd time it might be uncomfortable and when it is, I apologize.
Speaker B:And I know for a fact that it's been proven that when your phone is on the table, even it's face down, it still shows lack of interest.
Speaker B:So if that's ever the case, I always apologize.
Speaker B:I'll be like, jono, I'm sorry, I need my phone out because it's ragging my leg.
Speaker B:I'm just gonna put it if I'm not looking, you know, so I always do that.
Speaker B:But I think one of the things I'd, I'd like to touch on is, is that awkwardness around that conversation.
Speaker B:The awkwardness from the person talking and the listener.
Speaker B:Because go back to what I said at the start.
Speaker B:The idea was men are the protectors, we're the providers.
Speaker B:So I'm gonna use me as an example.
Speaker B:I will clarify for anyone listening.
Speaker B:I'm in a decent place, you know, I'm fairly happy, I'm content with what's going on.
Speaker B:But for example, my finances aren't the best right now.
Speaker B:So if I was to come to you, Jono, and talk about that, that's embarrassing for me because I'm a man, I should have my fight, I'm 42 year old man.
Speaker B:To qualify as well, I should have my finances in order.
Speaker B:I should be the provider, you know, and I'm a man and I'm single, therefore you know that that herd mentality, I'm the weak one, do you know what I mean?
Speaker B:And so there is an embarrassment there.
Speaker B:I know there shouldn't be, you know, when we talk about it logically, but there is.
Speaker B:So how do we get around that awkwardness, that embarrassment, do you think?
Speaker A:Well, first is who are you comparing yourself to?
Speaker A:And having your own place is already achievement.
Speaker A:I think everyone's at a different level, a different journey in the game.
Speaker A:Some people could be a millionaire by 30, some people may not be.
Speaker A:And that's okay too.
Speaker A:Like everyone's got a different skill set, different journey that they're on and it doesn't matter where you are really, it's, it's how you see yourself.
Speaker A:And I grew up not, not knowing my, about finances.
Speaker A:And yeah, it could be embarrassing.
Speaker A:Like, oh yeah, you should have your own place by 30, for instance, right?
Speaker A:I'm still living with my parents, I'm still living with My mom, my dad passed away a few years ago and my mom is severely blinded so I have to take care of her in a way.
Speaker A:I can't move out because if I do then it's hard for her to do stuff by herself.
Speaker A:So I need to be around and I'm engaged Ionce for the last few, five years now.
Speaker A:And there's things like oh, you should be married, you should have kids and all that stuff.
Speaker A:I'm like, well no, not really.
Speaker A:Like we, maybe we don't want kids.
Speaker A:But that's your perception, that's your opinion and your perception.
Speaker A:Like you don't know what our circumstances is and you don't know what makes us happy.
Speaker A:So knowing what makes you happy and what you're okay with is key.
Speaker A:And here's clarity in knowing your own goals, your own perspectives and, but also knowing what you want in life, right?
Speaker A:What do you want is what matters really not what everyone else wants for you.
Speaker A:Everyone could say things that's easy for you.
Speaker A:They go, oh, you can get a better house, you get a bigger house, you can move in together and stuff.
Speaker A:Yeah, we could.
Speaker A:But that also costs another, you know, 200 grand on top for mortgage and debt and all of that stuff is that maybe we don't need that.
Speaker A:Maybe we're comfortable with what we have right now.
Speaker A:So knowing what is it you want and what you're okay with, like I get the whole thing was like I should be, you know, there's a whole things that I should be having my things having my together and all of that stuff.
Speaker A:And it's is, you know, compared to Hudo, that's the thing.
Speaker A:Like whenever and here's the thing, I, I go out to, I make it like a choice to go out to more rural countries like Vietnam for instance.
Speaker A:You've known that I've gone for the last few years now, but every time I go to Vietnam I feel for the people there because they just end.
Speaker A:You know, they just had the 50 year reunification after the war.
Speaker A:They're they still rebuilding stages to be fair.
Speaker A:There's still a lot of people who's not in a good place and there's people who's well off.
Speaker A:But then you kind of see like two sides of it.
Speaker A:It's like, well, I'm in a very good position because I managed to fly over here, I can rent a decent hotel and you know, I can eat out pretty, pretty decently and I don't have to worry about the money.
Speaker A:So like, compared to who?
Speaker A:You know, compared to what and then there's other countries where you need a decent sized salary to live on.
Speaker A:And I see it as a privilege that we do get to fly over to and witness these kind of different lifestyles and perspectives.
Speaker A:It gives you a whole different insight and perspective of life.
Speaker A:And like, they're happy with just playing with, I don't know, some cans, not football, because they can't afford a football.
Speaker A:They're happy kicking around with some tin cans.
Speaker A:They're happy playing with some marbles because they don't have money to play with a mobile phone.
Speaker A:You see, like, the whole contrast and differences that we have over here.
Speaker A:We're very spoiled for what we have over here.
Speaker A:Like, they don't give their kids iPhones or phones, mobile phones to, to sit and watch when they're eating dinner.
Speaker A:They're sitting, like, on a stool, like, just twiddling their thumbs with some chopsticks or something because they can't afford to give them a phone to play with to sit on and hold their attention.
Speaker A:Like, we do that over here.
Speaker A:And it's, it seems like there's so many, like, perspectives and I don't know, it's, it's, it's knowing that, that perspective, really, it's like having the differences, like what we're grateful for, what we have and what we don't have.
Speaker A:It's easier to always compare.
Speaker B:I think it's, I think you're right.
Speaker B:I think there's also an element of culture as well as comparison, because I'm guilty of what you just said there.
Speaker B:You sometimes look at people who appear better off than you and then that's what you compare yourself to.
Speaker B:You don't compare yourself to someone who is potentially worse off than you.
Speaker B:But I think of culture as well, and I think you touched on it before, but that, that property ownership in the uk, that's, we, we, we're big on owning your own place, but if you move to Germany, for example, they're less bothered.
Speaker B:So is.
Speaker B:Do you think there's.
Speaker B:That.
Speaker B:That culture or upbringing and background plays a part in how we perceive ourselves as.
Speaker A:Well, yeah.
Speaker A:Like what, what's.
Speaker A:How do you define success?
Speaker A:That's probably key, right?
Speaker A:A lot of us is like, oh, you should be financially free or you should be a millionaire, then that, that's successful.
Speaker A:But like, sometimes for some people, successful is having just food on the table, having a roof over your head, having, you know, a warm bed to go into every night, that's success.
Speaker A:Making another day, that could be success.
Speaker A:You see what I mean?
Speaker A:Like it's all a matter of perspectives.
Speaker A:And some people may go, oh yeah, but I want a BMW, for instance.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker A:Well, why'd you want a BMW?
Speaker A:Oh, because it's flashy and it's fast.
Speaker A:And I was like, well, any car is fast, really.
Speaker A:Why can't you just have a Honda Jazz like me just running around on Honda Jazz?
Speaker A:You know, it's not fast, it's not super fast, but it gets me A to B, it's reliable, it's cheap to run.
Speaker A:Doesn't you know, I don't need to cost me an arm and a leg for service.
Speaker A:And some people might go, oh, it doesn't cost an arm and leg.
Speaker A:But some, for some people that they may feel like that, that it does because I feel like I want something a bit more cheaper to run.
Speaker A:And again, it's all a matter of what are you comfortable with, what are you happy with?
Speaker A:And I used to have a flashy Honda sporty car, right?
Speaker A:So I get it.
Speaker A:A performance car is fun to drive, it's fast and it's flashy.
Speaker A:But also it comes with a maintenance cost on top of that.
Speaker A:And so.
Speaker A:And I'm happy with just a normal run around now.
Speaker A:But I, I wanted the perspective of having owning both at the same time, then getting rid of the sporty one and then living for a few years with a normal standard runaround.
Speaker A:How does that make me feel?
Speaker A:I was like, okay, well, it didn't make much difference other than finances.
Speaker A:It cost me more to run two cars, obviously.
Speaker A:And what else could I save from not running two cars?
Speaker A:It could go towards saving for a deposit for a house or it could go onto towards holidays to go Vietnam and things like that.
Speaker A:Like, it kind of gave me other doors that I'm like, where could I be looking after my money or could be going to investment back into the stocks or funds, wherever it is, or just managing my finances better because I shouldn't be splashing it around like crazy.
Speaker A:Crazy kid.
Speaker B:I want to come back to the listening aspect because I know this is like you said at the man cave, that's a big part of that is listening to other people.
Speaker B:And I still think that that is a big problem of people listening to men.
Speaker B:So how can we be better listeners?
Speaker B:And I'm just going to chuck in one other thing on that because I think a lot of blokes are a bit like me in that we don't like being judged in the idea of, you know, you're not, you're not a real man.
Speaker B:If you open up or if you cry or anything like that.
Speaker B:So how can we create that, that safe environment for our friends, for our colleagues, for our partners where they feel like they can open up and they're not going to be judged?
Speaker A:Well, like I said before, screen that safe space, right?
Speaker A:If you're having, if you're sitting in a mud, like together for instance, if we're having a one on one conversation right now, is just listening, you know, you listening to me and you're not, you're not fixing anything, you're just listening.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:But also checking in regularly.
Speaker A:Some I think this is, we're guilty of this, not checking in often with our friends because we're so busy or we forget or you don't know how to check in, you forget like those kind of, hey, how are you doing long term?
Speaker A:I haven't heard from you for a while.
Speaker A:And like I reached out to a friend just recently.
Speaker A:I met up for coffee today because I haven't heard from them for a while.
Speaker A:But then I saw them post up a video and again, it's one of those I'm guilty of.
Speaker A:If I didn't see that video, I would have forgot to check in with them.
Speaker A:But because I've seen them post a video and goes, oh, I was struggling for the last three, four months.
Speaker A:I was like, I had no idea.
Speaker A:I feel terrible.
Speaker A:Can we meet up for a coffee and catch up like.
Speaker A:But that I should have done that beforehand.
Speaker A:Again, that's one thing.
Speaker A:Check in regularly.
Speaker A:And I'm very guilty of not doing, able to do this because like everyone else is like, oh, we're so busy trying to do this and do that and look after your family, take care of yourself, your business, whatever it is.
Speaker A:You forget kind of how to check in people or sometimes you just don't want to burden other people.
Speaker A:You feel like I don't abandon someone else with my problems.
Speaker A:That's another thing why we don't reach out.
Speaker A:But also creating that safe space is you're supporting them.
Speaker A:You know, you're.
Speaker A:If I was to reach out to you and ask for help, I know you would, you would answer and be like, hey, how can I help?
Speaker A:Instantly.
Speaker A:But that's because just who you are.
Speaker A:And that's amazing.
Speaker A:But there's also the opportunity that you would feel good by helping me out.
Speaker A:And if I don't give you that opportunity to help me out, you won't feel good because you'd be like, like similar to my friend.
Speaker A:You know, he, he was struggling for the last Three, four months.
Speaker A:And I, I, I completely wasn't able to help.
Speaker A:I just didn't know how to help because I was, wasn't aware.
Speaker A:But then as soon as we caught up, I was like, how, what else do you need help with?
Speaker A:And he was like, oh, my car needs fixing or body work needs doing?
Speaker A:I was like, okay, I'll take you to my friend who shop owner got, he was like, are you free now?
Speaker A:I was, I'm free now, let's go together.
Speaker A:Like instantly drove 10 minutes, got there, introduced him, he got a quote.
Speaker A:He was happy.
Speaker A:And he was like, that's another problem of his list because he got a quote to fix his car.
Speaker A:Like that was something that he bothered him for the last few months because he couldn't do anything because he was ill.
Speaker A:And I just solved it literally within 10, 20 minutes of him because we met up for coffee.
Speaker A:But that wouldn't have happened if I didn't reach out.
Speaker A:Being patient, understanding again, that's another thing of creating that safe space.
Speaker A:I mentioned this again and that non judgment free zone.
Speaker A:It's, it's, it's hard because you feel like you're being, you're being judged wherever whoever you speak to you feel like, oh, this person could be judging me right now.
Speaker A:How could I make it feel like I'm not being judged?
Speaker A:It's just if you trust this person enough, you know, sometimes it's hard to know who you can trust, who you can talk to.
Speaker A:But there are a lot of help out there.
Speaker A:There's counselors, there's therapists, there's help lines.
Speaker A:Samaritans mind, you know, they have hotlines where you're just speaking to these people.
Speaker A:They don't even know who you are.
Speaker A:But they would happen happily listen to.
Speaker B:You.
Speaker A:Because they are trained.
Speaker A:But also a lot of these people are also volunteers.
Speaker A:They're there to support you and help you and guide you through whatever you need to do.
Speaker A:And that's what's amazing about like, here's another thing about volunteers is these guys, these people that volunteer their time to do this is, is the unsung heroes of the country.
Speaker A:You know, they give up their time freely to do it, to sit by their phones and help someone on the other side of the phone if they need it.
Speaker A:And like, yeah, there's these people out there, there's a lot of heroes out there that goes unnoticed.
Speaker B:One of the things touched on there was like not, not trying to fix a problem.
Speaker B:And that's one of why my weaknesses, you know, I always Want to help them, like come to a problem of, yes, let me solve this for you.
Speaker B:But I think I've got better now and one of my things that I quite often ask is like, do you just want me to listen today?
Speaker B:Do you want me to help?
Speaker B:You know, and often it surprises me because I, well, if they come into a problem then surely they're going to want me to solve it.
Speaker B:But so many times people just said, no, I just need someone to run that.
Speaker B:And I wonder how much if again, we're talking about men specifically, I wonder how much if men felt like they had someone they could go to and just download and run.
Speaker B:I wonder what impact just that would have on mental health.
Speaker B:Because just having that, that, that opportunity to decompress the downloads event, that could prevent a lot of some of the more serious issues come that come up further down the line.
Speaker B:Would you agree?
Speaker A:Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker A:Which is why NHS has talking therapy.
Speaker A:Although the long the list sometimes can be six to nine months from what I've been told, you know, to get that.
Speaker A:But there are hot again, like I said, there's a lot of hotlines out on the other end of the phone, the Samaritan's mind, there's other charities that do something similar that are on the other end of the phone to talk to if you're brave enough to reach out for help and ask for it.
Speaker A:If you have a mate that you can speak to freely, you know, they're open to these kind of conversations, these topics and they're not going to get, try and fix you or try and solve the problem for you, you know, if, you know, they can listen again, that's one of the hard thing is someone to listen to.
Speaker A:Like, who do you know that can listen to you?
Speaker A:Like, I might have, like, probably a handful of people that I can speak to about some of the problems I'm willing to support to, but I've developed the skill to break out of that.
Speaker A:I'm now making content to talk about my story and share about it more openly because I've built my confidence up over the years and it's taken me a good five to 10 years of doing this, like on a very regular basis.
Speaker A:But not everyone's like that, right?
Speaker A:Not everyone wants to share their stuff on the Internet and be like, here's my problem, here's my challenges, here's how I overcame it.
Speaker A:Like, if a lot of people would be like, I'm just dealing with something right now that I just need to sit with, I don't know how to do it, but I will sit with it.
Speaker A:And a lot of people would do that.
Speaker A:And that's okay too.
Speaker A:It's finding what works for you.
Speaker A:For me is I'm happy to create content and share what's going on with me because that's what I'm now used to.
Speaker A:And it's a habit, but that's finding a tool that works for you.
Speaker B:I do think sometimes just knowing that you've got someone to talk to be really beneficial.
Speaker B:Not even actually having to talk, but knowing that if I need to, I can go to this person.
Speaker B:But I want to come back to you a little bit with regards to, like, the man cave, because obviously the man cave you're working with a lot of the time, I'd imagine with men that are struggling.
Speaker A:Hmm.
Speaker B:So I don't know if this is a daft question, but I'm gonna roll with it.
Speaker B:What are men struggling with at the minute?
Speaker B:What are you seeing?
Speaker B:That's crops up a lot.
Speaker A:Loneliness.
Speaker A:Loneliness.
Speaker A:Depression.
Speaker A:Isolation is one of the big ones.
Speaker A:Especially nowadays.
Speaker A:We've got hybrid working or work people working from home.
Speaker A:They struggle with lack of connection and a lot of relationship troubles.
Speaker A:People not not knowing how to work in a relationship.
Speaker A:You know, working two dynamics between, like, what does the other half need?
Speaker A:How to become a better listener, how to resolve conflict, how to resolve problems and tackle problems together and work as a team.
Speaker A:You know, working with each other's different emotions, understanding each other's beliefs, each other's values.
Speaker A:A lot of people don't know their own values, let alone your other half's values.
Speaker A:So there's a lot of soul searching and self identification, trying to look for your own individual self within.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:How does.
Speaker A:How do you play in the role of that dynamic?
Speaker A:Like, where do you fit in in that puzzle?
Speaker A:And a lot of people also struggle with maybe medication and pain, physical pain, physical health.
Speaker A:That's a challenge that some people just can't get away with and have to work on different things and, you know, work on the mindset and how to overcome this kind of situations.
Speaker B:I want to come back to the first one that you said.
Speaker B:Actually, the kind of loneliness and isolation.
Speaker B:It was interesting because it was almost like you jumped at that.
Speaker B:And that's what I notice as well, is loneliness.
Speaker B:And, you know, when men get divorced, they generally deal with it worse than women do.
Speaker B:Again, there's exceptions to everything.
Speaker B:I appreciate that, but I didn't deal with it great.
Speaker B:You know, I.
Speaker B:When I got divorced, and this is me being really brutally.
Speaker B:I'm not criticizing anyone.
Speaker B:My wife had the kid, she got the house.
Speaker B:I got to go and start afresh, you know, and I think it's that it's hard.
Speaker B:It is lonely.
Speaker B:It took me probably 18 months or two years to get back into some sort of groove where I'm like, I'm actually okay by myself.
Speaker B:But then.
Speaker B:And when we were touching on this before and actually Jono, we can even roll that into our industry of instructors.
Speaker B:It's a very lonely job at times, you know.
Speaker B:Yes, there's options for communities there, but on a day to day basis we're by yourself and, and I'll combine those two things together.
Speaker B:Where a lot of instructors are that age where they get divorced, you know, and so they're alone and then they go into work and they're alone at work and then.
Speaker B:And not just specifically instruct us with this, but generally how do we combat loneliness?
Speaker B:I mean, I'm happy to talk about, you know, what I did, but how do we combat that?
Speaker A:Combating loneliness, getting yourself back into community groups, finding people, what they say, your tribe, you know, finding interest groups, you know, finding people that similar interests to you.
Speaker A:Some people may be film goers, you know, trying to find a film group that meets on a weekly basis or at least bi weekly basis wherever it is they do.
Speaker A:You know, it could be board games.
Speaker A:Some people may be interested in board games.
Speaker A:Some of you may be interested in diy.
Speaker A:There's like, there's things like men in sheds where they help rebuild, recycling stuff and like old things together.
Speaker A:Like there's, there's a lot of DIY things in there when, when for those kind of groups, volunteering, there's probably one way of connecting yourself back into the community and giving back to the community.
Speaker A:In some ways I think volunteering, like I said, is one of the most selfless act that people can do.
Speaker A:I've been volunteering for the last eight years now, I think with different group nonprofits.
Speaker A:I've worked with Toastmasters for public speaking, but I've also been a trustee for two different local charities.
Speaker A:One was a alcohol and drug addiction rehab center charity and then one was for kids with play.
Speaker A:Like kids giving kids activities to play and learn develop at different charities.
Speaker A:So like I, I had two different areas and then now I'm working with the man cave which is now mental health support for men.
Speaker A:So I think volunteering is probably one way of getting yourself back out into community and combating that loneliness.
Speaker A:But you're rebuilding connection with other things, whatever other interests you have like kickboxing for me, I took back kickboxing a year ago now, just passed, just, just past a year now that I've been with them.
Speaker A:But like I.
Speaker A:Because I used to go to the gym by myself a lot and.
Speaker A:And again, like you said, it's very lonely when you're at the gym by yourself, trying to motivate yourself, trying to inspire yourself to keep going every day or every other day, whatever it is your routine is.
Speaker A:But it got to the point where I just felt unmotivated and bored and also disconnected because I was just training by myself.
Speaker A:So I went back into kickboxing, got back in the community, got trained in other lads, other guys, other people, you know.
Speaker A:So there's loads of ways to try and combat that loneliness.
Speaker A:But also trying to get.
Speaker A:Feel good at being your own company is probably one of the hardest.
Speaker A:It's hardest, especially when you're so used to being with people or being with a partner.
Speaker A:It's definitely much.
Speaker A:It takes a lot of work, but it's not impossible.
Speaker A:It's just a lot of work and it takes time as well.
Speaker B:I think that I'm gonna have a sore neck at the end of this episode because I'm spending a lot of time nodding.
Speaker B:But there's a few things I wanna touch back on there because one of the things you mentioned when you were kind of throwing some activity ideas about was like a film club.
Speaker B:And it just reminded me actually that when I went to see Guardians of the Galaxy 3 at the cinema, I went alone.
Speaker B:I felt, oh, you know, I.
Speaker B:But by myself at the time when I felt I couldn't have anyone to go with.
Speaker B:And I remember feeling really lonely afterwards, like, who do I talk to this about?
Speaker B:You were there, Jono.
Speaker B:I don't know if you remember, but we had a chat.
Speaker B:We were on phone for about two hours afterwards talking about guidance at college free.
Speaker B:And look, you all know this, but that was like a little, a little lifeline for me at the time, like, oh, great, I can speak to Jono about this and this is going to make me feel better talking to this person.
Speaker B:And it must have worked because I can remember this from two, three years ago, wherever it was.
Speaker B:So yeah, and we're just taking a quick break from the episode to let you know that if you're enjoying this and you want to take things a bit deeper, then check out the Instructor Podcast premium.
Speaker B:Inside that membership, we go beyond the podcast with full expert sessions, teaching techniques, business growth strategies, mindfulness tools, and a load more that you don't get get anywhere else.
Speaker B:It's specifically designed for driving instructors who actually give a damn about improving, not just costing.
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Speaker B:Stay as long as it helps you.
Speaker B:It's a convenient CPD at your fingertips that you can listen to on the go, at your PC, on your tv, whatever works for you.
Speaker B:And there's a bunch of default levels you can sign up on, so to find out more, you can head straight to the link in the show notes or find out more at the website www.theinstructorpodcast.com.
Speaker B:but for now, let's get back to the episode.
Speaker B:I think the last thing he said there was actually the thing I wrote down to myself on my notes here when I met that, when I asked you that question, which is not being scared to be alone.
Speaker B:Because that was my big thing when I moved into this flat.
Speaker B:I felt like an absolute failure because.
Speaker A:It'S a massive achievement, by the way.
Speaker A:Well done.
Speaker B:Yeah, thank you.
Speaker B:I now appreciate that genuinely.
Speaker A:But like, moving into your own place is probably one of the biggest wins ever.
Speaker A:Or like, for a lot of people, I'm just saying, right?
Speaker A:It might not felt like that to you because you was getting a new chapter, new life and all that stuff, but for a lot of people, having the keys to their in place, it's a massive win.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Like for me, I'm.
Speaker A:I'm still trying to see myself getting to that stage, right, Because I'm starting to build, to move into a new place, but like, that massive financial gap just seems so far away.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:But it's just like sometimes it's like you just have to do it one step at a time, one day at a time.
Speaker B:This is why I love speaking to you as well, because we, we both got very different lives and we can see each other's positives.
Speaker B:And it goes back to that comparison thing.
Speaker B:There's no comparison here.
Speaker B:It's seeing the good on seeing the bad, whatever.
Speaker B:But no, I just, I felt like such a failure, I really did.
Speaker B:And the idea of being alone at 40 and just, just horrible.
Speaker B:Like I say, it took me probably 18 months to get to the point where I'm like, I quite like my own company.
Speaker B:I'm all right, I've settled into this.
Speaker B:Anyone that's coming into my life now needs to earn this, you know, not letting, no nonsense in.
Speaker B:So I think that would be my big one.
Speaker B:It would be getting to a point where you're not scared to be alone.
Speaker B:I really am at that point.
Speaker B:Now where if I never meet anyone, I don't care.
Speaker B:I'm all right.
Speaker B:Yeah, I've got a really good little life and I think that's a really good position to be in.
Speaker A:And there's a saying also, Life begins at 40.
Speaker A:I mean, that could be.
Speaker A:That could be for any age, really.
Speaker A:To be fair, you could use that same for your Life begins at 30, life begins at 20, wherever it is you want.
Speaker A:But, like, there's never.
Speaker A:There's never a day that's too late to start as soon as you start.
Speaker A:Like, that is probably one of the key things that I've learned over the years, working with different people in different industries.
Speaker A:And it's never too late to start and change your life.
Speaker A:Like, if you want to change a new habit.
Speaker A:Like, for instance, me taking up cold ice baths in the middle of January or beginning of January when it's minus three.
Speaker A:Like, I could have waited until it's warmer.
Speaker A:But whole point of ice baths is so it's cold, right?
Speaker A:So you might as well do it.
Speaker A:Like, it's never.
Speaker A:It's never too late to introduce it.
Speaker A:And then now I'm doing cold showers because the cold bath isn't cold enough.
Speaker A:But I'm sure we could change that by adding ice.
Speaker A:But whatever it is, it's never too late to make a change in your life, to make a new habit.
Speaker A:Like when I first went to the cinema by myself, like you said, because I've got a Senior World card, I can go whenever I want.
Speaker A:The whole idea was that I only went because my friends were going, and if they don't go, I won't go.
Speaker A:But then there's a lot of films that were coming out that I wanted to see, but they never had the time to come come see with me.
Speaker A:So I was just like, you know what?
Speaker A:I'm gonna just go to Mars Gate by myself.
Speaker A:So I went, you know, to cinema and booked my own seat right in the middle, facing like.
Speaker A:And the screen was empty.
Speaker A:I was just like, brilliant.
Speaker A:It was amazing.
Speaker A:Like, I.
Speaker A:I enjoyed like a massive screen to myself and all that stuff.
Speaker A:And fair enough, I didn't have anyone to speak to about the film afterwards.
Speaker A:But I enjoyed the familiar movie.
Speaker A:That was the key thing.
Speaker A:That's all I needed.
Speaker A:I didn't need anyone else to.
Speaker A:I need other people to accompany me.
Speaker A:And once I realized that, I was just like, wow, I can be in my own company.
Speaker B:It's really interesting you say that because just like a little mini epiphany for me there in that I've always enjoyed going to the cinema by myself.
Speaker B:Always.
Speaker B:I remember going to an amazing Spider Man 2, and as you said, I was the only one in the cinema.
Speaker B:Shame that wasn't a very good film, but whatever.
Speaker B:But it was that Guardians of the galaxy 1.
Speaker B:The reason why I didn't feel it at that time was because I was alone at home, do you know?
Speaker B:And that it's like the context of it, like, now I will go slim by myself because I'm happy with myself.
Speaker B:But if you're unhappy with yourself, maybe that.
Speaker B:That's where that comes in.
Speaker B:So I suppose that's the start of all this.
Speaker B:We've got to get back and make sure that we are happy with ourselves.
Speaker B:So I suppose this is the big question.
Speaker B:How do we get happy with ourselves?
Speaker B:What can we do to look after our mental health as men?
Speaker B:So that that number of 14 people that you mentioned earlier hopefully doesn't stay at 14 and comes down a bit.
Speaker A:So that was a question that someone asked as well, is how do.
Speaker A:If I was to rebuild my life, how do you rebuild yourself after, like.
Speaker A:Like you said you went through divorce and all that stuff, and a fresh start wherever it is.
Speaker A:Like, if you wanted to start all over again, how would that look like?
Speaker A:And be like, oh, that's a lot of work, or.
Speaker A:So my key thing that I've always say is, what do you want?
Speaker A:Let's go with that.
Speaker A:What do you want in your life?
Speaker A:And then from what do you want in life to where you are right now?
Speaker A:How far is that from you right now?
Speaker A:Like, for instance, for me, it's like, oh, maybe I want to get a bigger house.
Speaker A:Okay, how much of a deposit do I need to save up first?
Speaker A:Then how much mortgage do I need afterwards?
Speaker A:Work out those and then work towards that.
Speaker A:For some people, it might be, I'm unhealthy.
Speaker A:For instance, I need to lose weight.
Speaker A:There you go.
Speaker A:There's another one.
Speaker A:There's one that I did before was I'm 120 kilos right now, whatever that in stones.
Speaker A:I don't know.
Speaker A:I'm very overweight, but I know I need to lose some weight.
Speaker A:So my goal was get down to 85 kg from 120.
Speaker A:So that's like 45 kg of weight to.
Speaker A:To shift off.
Speaker A:And there's a lot.
Speaker A:And I was like, okay, so what steps could I take then?
Speaker A:Go to the gym, look at my nutrition, and start slow.
Speaker A:Like, what do I need to cut down?
Speaker A:Oh, instead of having three meals a day, I'm now having two meals a day.
Speaker A:I'm gonna fast from morning till lunch, then have a light lunch, then I have a big dinner or a medium sized dinner with like mixed protein and less carbs.
Speaker A:Whatever it is, whatever you're, you're trying to achieve.
Speaker A:But for me it's dropping a lot of weight.
Speaker A:So the periods where I even took up supplements to, to for as, as meals, you know, like those supplement meals where you just like powdered drinks and all that stuff, like I did that too and I shifted a lot of weight as very unhealthy way of doing it.
Speaker A:But I was looking for ways that made me happy.
Speaker A:I thought, well, thought my made me happy.
Speaker A:So when I actually achieved my goal of hitting 85 kg, wherever it is, I was like, wow, you know, I feel this is great, there's a good way to be.
Speaker A:I felt lethargic, I felt tired, I felt miserable.
Speaker A:I wasn't eating properly, I was not having fast foods, I was having like a meal shake day.
Speaker A:Whatever it is, it was I was just like, this isn't healthy, like it's not sustainable, right?
Speaker A:I was like this is terrible.
Speaker A:So then I, I started again looking at what else do I need to change?
Speaker A:How do I become more healthier?
Speaker A:Like maybe instead of eating this supplement stuff I just have normal meals.
Speaker A:So I'm cooking my meals, have a egg salad instead and introduce natural proteins and natural foods into my diet and training.
Speaker A:And then I got to the point where I'm like 90, 95 kg and I was like, oh, I feel energized, I don't feel tired all the time and I feel good.
Speaker A:That's the most important part.
Speaker A:It's like what do I feel to feel good?
Speaker A:So rebuilding your life is always looking at one step at a time.
Speaker A:What can I change now?
Speaker A:Like you don't just if for some.
Speaker A:And, and that's just, that was my way of doing it.
Speaker A:You know, there could be extreme, there could be slow steps, but figuring out what is it you want first, I think that's having that clarity.
Speaker A:What's my goals?
Speaker A:What, what do I want in life?
Speaker A:Do I want my own space?
Speaker A:Do I want place?
Speaker A:But also knowing what makes you happy, I think that's one of the hardest questions we ask is what?
Speaker A:What does make me happy?
Speaker A:Does going to cinema by myself make me happy?
Speaker A:Yeah, it does.
Speaker A:It really does for me.
Speaker A:Does training make you happy?
Speaker A:If so, train.
Speaker A:Does going for walks make you happy?
Speaker A:Go for walks?
Speaker A:Does helping people make you happy?
Speaker A:Go help people, Go volunteer.
Speaker A:Find your nearest charity and just volunteer, ask if they got volunteer opportunities.
Speaker A:If they don't, they must know someone that do.
Speaker A:Trust me, all the charities are connected.
Speaker A:They will find volunteers because they're always looking for volunteers to help out, give back to the community somehow, big or small.
Speaker A:Doesn't have to be big, you know, you don't have to give money.
Speaker A:You can give up your time and it could be just going to a food bank and help stack some tins, stack some shelves.
Speaker A:It could be going out to.
Speaker B:I.
Speaker A:Don'T know, for instance, the man cave is going to support group and goes, how can I help?
Speaker A:How can I add more value?
Speaker A:How can I help you?
Speaker A:You know, And I first initially helped out with helping with their digital marketing stuff like their social medias and their content and their flyers.
Speaker A:Then I helped with their merchandise.
Speaker A:That's because that was my skill set is digital marketing.
Speaker A:That was my way of adding value.
Speaker A:That was my way of volunteering as well as attending the meetings for myself.
Speaker A:And sharing during the meetings is like, this is what's going on in my life right now.
Speaker A:This is what I'm challenged by.
Speaker A:But I feel like that was my way of giving back in a way.
Speaker A:So whatever your skill set is, whether you have different skill sets to do, to contribute, there's always a way you can help someone else or help a community or help a charity.
Speaker B:I think I want to expand on just a couple of bits there.
Speaker B:It's one of the things that I've used for a while, helped me get through my big sticky bit that sounds wrong is the idea of looking after Terry on Friday.
Speaker B:You know, like if I've got work to do on Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday and I don't do it well, Friday's supposed to be my day off.
Speaker B:I'm going to be really annoyed on Friday.
Speaker B:So I need to look after a Terry on Friday and plan for Friday by working on Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday.
Speaker B:And that's kind of how I got through that.
Speaker B: That: Speaker B:You know, I was never like suicidal.
Speaker B:I was never going to be one of those numbers, but I was very much, I don't really care if I wake up tomorrow, what have I got to get up for?
Speaker B:You know, I was very much in that mindset.
Speaker B:But all I kept telling myself was, at some point I will care again.
Speaker B:I have to keep myself going for that day when I care again.
Speaker B:So I don't look back and go, oh, this is so much hard now, because I've given everything up.
Speaker B:So I kept going to look after Future Terry.
Speaker B:And I'd say that to anyone, that if you're struggling now, there's the old phrase, everything's gonna be all right in the end.
Speaker B:And if it's not all right, that just means it's not the end yet.
Speaker B:And you will be all right in the end.
Speaker B:You've just gotta get to the end.
Speaker B:So if you're going through that sticky spell now, keep going because you will get there.
Speaker B:And then I just think the other bit I wanted to touch on and then you're welcome to come back on this if you want.
Speaker B:Jono is like the, the goals you've set.
Speaker B:How do you want to reimagine your life?
Speaker B:What, what future you want to build?
Speaker B:I'm.
Speaker B:I'm really at a point and I realize I'm giving my own examples here as well, but I'm really at a point where I don't really know.
Speaker B:I don't have a big.
Speaker B:A lot of big goals.
Speaker B:I am finding that really exciting.
Speaker B:So I'm curious to see where I am this time next year.
Speaker B:What am I doing?
Speaker B:Where am I living?
Speaker B:Who am I with?
Speaker B:You know, that's, that's exciting for me.
Speaker B:And I think a few years ago, I would have been the opposite way.
Speaker B:I would have seen that as fearful.
Speaker B:I would have looked at it like, God, I hadn't got a goal.
Speaker B:What if I've not done this?
Speaker B:What if not?
Speaker B:Like, no, let's.
Speaker B:Let's see what exciting adventures I can go on in next year.
Speaker B:This is going to be awesome.
Speaker B:So, yeah, I just wanted to.
Speaker B:Are you anything to come back on that?
Speaker A:I mean, being excited for the future, being excited for the unknown is already a big step because a lot of people are fearful of the unknown.
Speaker A:They want certainty, they want to know what's going to happen.
Speaker A:But that's the joy of life.
Speaker A:It's an adventure, right?
Speaker A:Like you said, it's an adventure.
Speaker A:You don't know where you're going.
Speaker A:You don't know what's gonna happen in the next few years.
Speaker A:But what you can do is make the changes or at least create whatever you want to create right now and have those consistency of stacking, like you said, like your podcast when you started a few years ago, you didn't know you can still carry on a few years down the line.
Speaker A:But here you are still consistently creating podcast episodes and so many people listen to this and it's amazing.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker A:And you just don't know what Doors and avenues people open up to.
Speaker A:And like, you can create so many different things right now with the help of different tools that we have.
Speaker A:For those that, you know, everyone's talking about the AI now, you know, you can go to AI and goes, hey, I need a plan to start a podcast about fishing.
Speaker A:I need a plan to start a community about superheroes.
Speaker A:Like, how do I start one?
Speaker A:Like, what gets you excited?
Speaker A:Maybe there's a community that wants to have superheroes, community that talks about Marvel and DC and together wherever it is.
Speaker A:Maybe there is a space for geekdom and Pokemon cards and games and whatnot.
Speaker A:There's, there's instructors, you know, there's the instructors podcast, right?
Speaker A:You have, right?
Speaker A:There's people that listen to this and, and driving.
Speaker A:Like, who would have thought?
Speaker A:Like, people go, why would you listen to a driving podcast or learning, learning how to drive podcasts?
Speaker A:It's like, well, you do find a lot of gold in it because people love them sharing their own journeys and their own tips and techniques and things that they've done before and what helped them driving and how to stay alert.
Speaker A:Like, I'm still remembering whenever I'm joining a junction and stuff, what to look out for.
Speaker A:Because my, I was so remember my, my driving instructor nailed it in my head.
Speaker A:I was like, always make sure you're looking both ways and all that.
Speaker A:Whatever or not.
Speaker A:It's like you just know there's hazards, potential hazards that could save your life.
Speaker A:And if you don't, you know what could, what's the worst that could happen?
Speaker A:It's like, well, you know, you probably get crushed.
Speaker A:I'm not good.
Speaker A:But like, there's so many different things that we could tap into right now.
Speaker A:And it's amazing place to be.
Speaker A:And like you said, that light at the end of the tunnel, it could be very, very, very, very, very far away.
Speaker A:Like, I don't see a light at the end of the tunnel.
Speaker A:It's just dark.
Speaker A:It's like, well, it is at the there somewhere.
Speaker A:And you have to keep walking.
Speaker A:As scary as it is, as dark as it is, as fearful as it is, it will be okay.
Speaker A:You will arrive at the end of the tunnel.
Speaker A:You just have to keep moving forwards.
Speaker A:And that's the hard part.
Speaker B:What do you do that makes you happy, Jono?
Speaker A:I play with lego.
Speaker B:Good one.
Speaker A:But also, well, lately I just built the, the Formula one cars.
Speaker A:But what else makes me happy?
Speaker A:Kickboxing makes me happy.
Speaker A:Connecting with individuals like yourselves make me happy.
Speaker A:Having the opportunity to talk about mental health, the opportunity to Speak freely about, you know, mental health, leadership, self awareness, entrepreneurship, these things that excite me because you can create so much in this world right now.
Speaker A:And that fear of unknown.
Speaker A:I'm excited what the future would be because I've.
Speaker A:What tools and.
Speaker A:Yeah, what tools that we have right now.
Speaker A:We are, we're so fortunate to have what we have right now and have access so openly.
Speaker A:Like, there's so much knowledge on things like YouTube, chat, GPT and AI and all sorts.
Speaker A:Like the, the access to your phone have to all of this information.
Speaker A:You can create anything nowadays.
Speaker A:If you want a community, build one or find one.
Speaker A:If you can't find one, build one.
Speaker A:That's what I'm saying.
Speaker A:This is how the, the man cave came.
Speaker A:Scotty, who founded the man cave, he was on holiday in Dubai and he was skydiving in Dubai, you know, one of those famous Dubai shots.
Speaker A:But he found himself very depressed and empty when he was.
Speaker A:When he was like, up in the air and diving, he was like, well, this isn't the feeling that I thought I would have.
Speaker A:Like, you just spent so much money going to Dubai and you're skydiving and all that stuff.
Speaker A:You should be joyful and like, wow, you know, this is amazing.
Speaker A:But he found himself so depressed and, and he was like, well, something needs changing.
Speaker A:So when he got back to missing Keynes, he was just like, well, I need help for my mental health support.
Speaker A:Then he spoke to nhs, they're like MK Talk therapies or, you know, the waiting line for a therapist, like six to nine months.
Speaker A:He's just like, well, I need help now.
Speaker A:Like, I.
Speaker A:I can't wait six to nine months.
Speaker A:I need something now.
Speaker A:They're like, well, we don't have anything now.
Speaker A:And he's like, well, I'll just create something.
Speaker A:So he set up his first meeting, which was like six or eight, nine people, all of them his mates.
Speaker A:So they all sat around and they got given, you know, a place in the office area where they got a table and a venue.
Speaker A:And they're like, well, first meeting was like, all of these mates.
Speaker A:And she's like, well, where's everyone else?
Speaker A:Like, who are the.
Speaker A:Where's the new people?
Speaker A:Like, this isn't going well.
Speaker A:And then week after week, the word got out that there's a mental health support group for men.
Speaker A:And then it grew from six people to 10 people, 10 people to 20 to 40 to 60 to 80.
Speaker A:And now we have four areas in Milton Keynes, Bedford, Northampton, Toaster.
Speaker A:And, like, we're still looking to expand there's like, that would not have happened had Scotty not persevered on creating this kind of safe space for men to talk about their mental health.
Speaker A:And now we're two and a half years now.
Speaker B:So, yeah, do want to ask you a bit more about the man here, but before I do, I'm amused again.
Speaker B:It's like when they asked what you do for fun, so what makes you happy?
Speaker B:And obviously you spoke a bit about AI and all this wonderful technology, but you.
Speaker B:It got very excited at the word Lego.
Speaker B:That was the Lego.
Speaker B:And I love that it's sometimes the most simple things that bring us the most joy.
Speaker B:But I think I just want to touch on.
Speaker B:On what's the right term?
Speaker B:Like coping mechanisms, coping strategies.
Speaker B:Because one thing us men, I would say are pretty crap at is sometimes managing when things go wrong.
Speaker B:I think that when we can control it, when we can be that provider, when we can be that protector, I think we're really good at that generally.
Speaker B:But you gave the example before of, you know, your dad passed away.
Speaker B:I gave my example of, you know, my life going to.
Speaker B: In: Speaker B:Maybe.
Speaker B:So what coping strategies have you got potentially, or what could you recommend?
Speaker B:How can people hope better than perhaps they might do?
Speaker A:So one of the key things that I do is being having a gratitude list.
Speaker A:So every morning I would do a gratitude list, 10 things I'm grateful for before I start my day.
Speaker A:What am I grateful for today?
Speaker A:It could be, I woke up, I've got roof over my head, I've got clean food to eat.
Speaker A:It could be just very basic things, right?
Speaker A:It doesn't have to be like, oh, I'm grateful for someone, you know that's with me.
Speaker A:And there could be whatever it is you want you're grateful for.
Speaker A:And I generally just have the basics.
Speaker A:Roof over my head, got money in the account, I've got secure finances, I've got a car, like the list goes on.
Speaker A:I've got.
Speaker A:I've got fiance, my mom's still here.
Speaker A:Like those little things.
Speaker A:I say little, but those kind of things.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker A:And then I would go for a cold shower or a cold ice bath if it's cold enough outside.
Speaker A:But during this time of year it's quite warm.
Speaker A:So cold shower is actually cold in my cold, cold bath.
Speaker A:Cold ice bath outside the garden.
Speaker A:But cold showers and then breath work, no meditation like those.
Speaker A:You can go through gwim Hof's breath work for regulating emotions.
Speaker A:Anything that comes up for you, there's plenty of meditation things on there as well with Wim Hof.
Speaker A:Those are my coping, my coping ones.
Speaker A:Like if I feel like I'm triggered or my anxiety is playing up, I would go into breath work.
Speaker A:And you hear this a lot of the times, people going, talking about breath work and all this is like, well, I'm breathing all the time.
Speaker A:I was like, Noel, there's different techniques of breathing to regulate your emotions and depending on what else is going on as well, it could be a long one, it could be a short one.
Speaker A:You know, it could be box breathing for instance.
Speaker A:So find one that works for you.
Speaker A:This is one that you would have to test out for like a month.
Speaker A:And I'm talking every day consistently, not, oh, I tried it for five minutes and then it didn't work.
Speaker A:It's like, no, try it five minutes every single day for the next whole month and then see how it goes.
Speaker A:Because there's a lot of things people go, oh yeah, I tried, I tried yoga for a session and didn't work.
Speaker A:Or tried yoga for six months because that's what fixed my lower back.
Speaker A:Because I went for six months to yoga every week, not one session.
Speaker A:If I just did that one session and I gave up, my lower back would have given like I would not have my lower back anymore.
Speaker A:That's how bad it was when I, when I pulled that muscle when I was training.
Speaker A:But because I did it consistently, it was something that was like, oh yeah, the yoga is really good.
Speaker A:So what else was coping?
Speaker A:I mentioned Lego.
Speaker A:There's also gaming.
Speaker A:I play at least an hour to two hours a day of games.
Speaker A:It could be mobile gaming, it could be on your console wherever it is.
Speaker A:Like find a game that, that you just zone out on.
Speaker A:Another way that I mentioned to you is going to the cinema by myself.
Speaker A:So once a week I go to the cinema by myself or go with someone else.
Speaker A:Like I'll just hang in a cinematic, watch a film that's way, just another way of just disconnecting myself with the film and that, that world.
Speaker A:What else?
Speaker A:Kickboxing is another one that I use for kick for coping I go twice a week.
Speaker A:But I'm looking to up that to about three to four times a week just because I've just seen the benefits of going and training there.
Speaker A:So there's a lot of other activities that I do do to help with coping with the day to day stuff.
Speaker A:We've got so much stress And I was like, where'd you find all this time?
Speaker A:It was like, well, sometimes you just need like 20 minutes, half an hour with building a Lego doesn't have does.
Speaker A:You don't have to build the whole thing at this at the one time, although that's nice when we do do that.
Speaker A:But sometimes if you have time restraints, maybe 20 minutes, just slot us maybe a bag, you know, just build one bag and then just leave it aside and just some sort of disconnection.
Speaker A:But at least you're doing something you enjoy.
Speaker A:It's putting time to do what makes you happy.
Speaker B:Right, hang on.
Speaker B:And, and like you said with the Lego then I think it's easy to get wrapped up in kind of going all in, you know, someone's gone wrong.
Speaker B:So you.
Speaker B:So for even just drinking as an example, I have one or two beers because they're nice.
Speaker B:Get a nice craft ale, have one or two.
Speaker B:You don't have to have 20, you know, it's like you said, like, oh, just spending 20 minutes a night or an hour on a, on a, on a console rather than.
Speaker B:I hate this phrase, but I use it for myself, so I use it.
Speaker B:Rather than wallowing in your own self pity for three hours, you know.
Speaker B:But as you said, there's nothing wrong with that either.
Speaker B:And I occasionally, very, very rarely, but occasionally we'll have a day when I'll just wake up and I'll just lie on sofa and Big Bang theory goes on and it's on all day because I just need to decompress my brain and not worry about anything and just give myself the day off.
Speaker B:But I'll make sure the next day I don't do it again.
Speaker B:You know, it's making sure that you, you don't go down that spiral, I think.
Speaker B:And as you said, taking times to, to make yourself happy and do the things you enjoy is, is massively going to prevent that.
Speaker B:But I want to come back to the man cave.
Speaker B:So you told us a little bit about it.
Speaker B:I think it's like you said, predominantly, predominantly more southern than northern.
Speaker B:But I know you want to expand.
Speaker B:So anyone southern, tell them why the man cave would be good to them, what they can expect, that kind of stuff.
Speaker A:Yeah, the thing is we're still just very small.
Speaker A:We are in Milton Keynes and surrounding areas.
Speaker A:So still Northampton, toaster Bedford.
Speaker A:And the thing with the man cave, it's, it's such, we've created such a safe space in every meeting that we go to.
Speaker A:The committee has been just amazing at what they do in Providing and facilitating their safe space for people to talk about bereavement, anxiety, depression, anything about suicidal thoughts and crisis.
Speaker A:Crisis team from NHS refers people to us and it's a game changer because we build it differently.
Speaker A:We don't have a lot of, we don't have a lot of like big rules that people need to like.
Speaker A:I think because we are a community based volunteer organization, we do things a bit differently.
Speaker A:So we're more of like a brotherhood than anything else.
Speaker A:We're here to support one another and keep each other accountable, on track with whatever goals that we have.
Speaker A:Some people may be staying sober, some people may be overcoming addiction, some people may be overcoming bereavement.
Speaker A:Some people were trying to attack, you know, try and tackle depression and anxiety.
Speaker A:Like myself, I struggle with anxiety but I'm also learning how to manage it and learning from other people who know how to manage it or manage their anxieties.
Speaker A:And a lot of it does come with, you know, your personal experiences.
Speaker A:But also some people would learn from other personal development mentors or different scientific researchers.
Speaker A:And we have trainers to come in to do breath work sessions.
Speaker A:We also do yoga sessions, we also do cold plunges.
Speaker A:Cold plunges.
Speaker A:We would get a group of lads and go to one of the local lagoons and go for a dip.
Speaker A:And it's just a, a great way to connect with like minded individuals who wants to grow and develop but at the same time trying to figure out what their challenges are with the mations.
Speaker A:Like a lot of people don't understand what their emotions and what they're going through.
Speaker A:Why do they feel angry all the time?
Speaker A:Why do they feel so isolated and disconnected?
Speaker A:But sometimes it could be, oh, just losing, losing friends because they're at the age where people are, you know, passing away or stuff like that or a lot of them are, you know, growing apart because a lot of people have families, you know, they have to spend more time with their families and then you grow distant and you lose connection and you lose touch with each other and then trying to make friends as you get older, it seems to be very hard.
Speaker A:We have trouble trying to make new friends because we feel like it's such a, you know, a lot of people have friends where they're from school and stuff like that, but then, or university and then, or work, but then you don't really make new friends after that.
Speaker A:So it's a great place to just come together and just have that kind of peer support really.
Speaker A:And you get to learn at the same time, but you're Also creating that compassionate and understanding community.
Speaker A:I think that's the hard part.
Speaker A:And having that common goal, you know, reducing suicide, that's, that's every lad's goal at the, at the cave is don't get to that stage, you know, trying to keep each other accountable, keep each other on track, you know, stay off the bad habits, get new ones, get new good habits, start walking more, exercising more, looking after nutrition, you know, limit your alcohol intake or medicine and intake and try and get more like natural food and stuff.
Speaker A:And I think it's just a great way to build new connections really.
Speaker A:Especially for guys that just struggle trying to make friends.
Speaker A:Like I, I'm, I'm one, I'm an introvert.
Speaker A:So usually extroverts come and adopt me because I'm so quiet.
Speaker A:But this place has been a game changer for me because I've been able to, my, I've been able to share what I've been going through.
Speaker A:People that resonate with me would, you know, would talk to me about their experiences and their challenges and then share me their experience and their journey, you know, how, how they coped and how, you know what today, what tools do they use?
Speaker A:Maybe instead of cold water and cold baths they go for eight mile walk.
Speaker A:Like some people have different.
Speaker A:Yeah, everyone's got different activity and different ways of coping.
Speaker B:I think it, it's interesting that you spoke about friendship there because I think that as you get older, as a man, it can be harder to make friends because it's almost, you're expected to have friends, you know, if you don't have a large group of friends when you're my example, when you're 42, I'd imagine maybe this is a perception thing but, you know, people looking at you a certain way, you know that you would be expected to have friends at that age.
Speaker B:That's something I wouldn't say.
Speaker B:I've struggled to make friends, but it's always there back of my head, I should be able to walk into a room and make friends with every man there because I'm a man and I should be able to do that.
Speaker B:And I have to kind of talk myself around and go, A, I don't want to make friends with everyone here, B, that's just stupid and C, go home and have a nap.
Speaker B:You know, it's.
Speaker B:But I do think it's interesting, that friendship thing, but I think that might be a conversation for another day because is there anything else that you want to touch on today?
Speaker B:Is there anything you think I've missed or any message you want to get across.
Speaker A:The.
Speaker A:The key thing out of all this is don't be afraid to ask for help.
Speaker A:And I've.
Speaker A:It's one of my biggest lessons that I shared recently and one of the biggest questions my mentor asked me was like, what's the hardest lesson you learned in life?
Speaker A:And I was just like, if I was.
Speaker A:To sum everything up, the last 37 years of my life is asking for help.
Speaker A:Because I'd grown up in as the only child and I tried to figure out everything by myself.
Speaker A:Like I was trying to navigate life by myself.
Speaker A:I rarely asked for help.
Speaker A:And it's become a habit where I don't ask for help.
Speaker A:Even you know, in the, in, in our circles that we've got mutual circles is like our mentor always goes, oh yeah, reach out for help if you need it.
Speaker A:But how often have you seen me post in like the last six months, I probably haven't even posted anything to ask for help, but I should have or could have.
Speaker A:And again, trying to figuring, trying to figure it all out by myself, it's like, why are we doing that?
Speaker A:Why are we trying to do this so hard?
Speaker A:Like we always say, like, life is a one player game.
Speaker A:It's true.
Speaker A:But it's up to you how you play it and you can play it with other people.
Speaker A:It's a multiplayer game too.
Speaker A:Like, it's a team game too.
Speaker A:Like, you can't win at life by yourself.
Speaker A:You can win by helping others.
Speaker A:Though.
Speaker B:I still say the hardest thing about running a podcast is the single hardest thing is asking the guests on.
Speaker B:Because it feels like I'm asking for help.
Speaker B:That's what I'm doing when I ask you on.
Speaker B:Hey, Jono, I know that we're mates.
Speaker B:I know that I could message you, as I did with the Guardians of the Galaxy free film, and said, can we have a chat about this?
Speaker B:And I also know that if you can, you'll come on.
Speaker B:But the other important thing is I know that if you can't do it, you will say no.
Speaker B:But that still doesn't make it easy.
Speaker B:It's like, oh, I gotta go and ask John of help.
Speaker B:It's still the single hardest thing about running a podcast.
Speaker B:Asking for help and putting that into every situation.
Speaker B:It is so hard, but it's.
Speaker A:It is hard.
Speaker A:Asking for help is hard, but also you're robbing the opportunity of someone else feeling good if you don't ask for help.
Speaker A:Because I feel good that I'm able to help you out.
Speaker A:But if you don't ask me for that help.
Speaker A:I wouldn't be able to do that.
Speaker A:It's the same as my friend asking me today, like, oh, I need my car fixing.
Speaker A:Do you know anyone?
Speaker A:Yeah, I do.
Speaker A:I hold a network of people.
Speaker A:Who do you need?
Speaker A:Like, I'm, I'm grateful that I built a connection like this.
Speaker A:Network of people.
Speaker A:Like you said, you probably won't have friends, but you got a network of people who's able to help others that also helps people too.
Speaker A:They may, they, you know, you may know one or two people that could do mechanic work for your cars and you'd introduce everyone to them.
Speaker A:You may not see them every day, every other way, but when you go to them, you know they would help you out because you always send people to them and they're like, they're grateful for you sending people the signal to them.
Speaker A:They're like, you can make so much work, like just referring people, although we're see all the time.
Speaker A:So they're more likely to look after you as well.
Speaker A:Like it's a people game, right?
Speaker A:We're in this, we're in this world together, so why not help each other out?
Speaker A:Like being kind to one another and ignoring all the politics and whatnot that's going around the world.
Speaker A:You can still be kind.
Speaker A:It's free to be kind.
Speaker A:That's the heart.
Speaker A:It's, it's one of the biggest lessons.
Speaker A:It's hard to be.
Speaker A:It's free to be kind.
Speaker A:So why not be kind?
Speaker A:And the more kind you are to someone else, the better there is for someone else to feel, you know, have a better day.
Speaker A:They may be going through struggles, they may be going through challenges.
Speaker A:They may have lost someone just now and they may not be feeling it.
Speaker A:They may be angry or pissed off, like, oh, or they will have road rage, right, because you cut them up.
Speaker A:They may be in a rush to go to hospital, they may be in a rush because their kid went in hospital.
Speaker A:You don't know what's going on in their lives, but we may have accidentally cut them up by accident and like apologies for doing that, but you never know what someone else could be going through.
Speaker A:Maybe they got sacked from their job and they just felt angry and just taking out on the road.
Speaker A:They shouldn't be, but people do.
Speaker A:And you may just got and wrong, wrong end of the stick at the wrong time, being at the wrong place, wrong time.
Speaker A:But trying to shift that perspective is, is try and be kind to yourself and to others.
Speaker B:I always think of the different service staff Make.
Speaker B:So whether it's McDonald's, whether it's chip shop or you got a garage or whatever, when you walk in and you've got someone that does.
Speaker B:Does their job well, that's all right.
Speaker B:You kind of carry on with your day.
Speaker B:There's no issue.
Speaker B:When you walk in and you've got someone that's friendly and that's pleasant and cheerful and actually provides good customer service, it changes your entire day.
Speaker B:It really does.
Speaker B:And that's something that I try and take for, obviously, as an instructor on lessons, I try and do it on the podcast as well.
Speaker B:You know, when we finish recording, I'm always like, how was that for you?
Speaker B:Was that good?
Speaker B:Could I anything better?
Speaker B:Could it?
Speaker B:You know, I'll try and make it bouncy.
Speaker B:But even with service stuff, when whatever that person is, like, when the transaction finished, I always say, have a good day.
Speaker B:And the number of them that surprise and go, oh, okay, you too.
Speaker B:And just that little thing can just make a difference in someone's day, which.
Speaker B:Yeah, it's interesting.
Speaker B:It's interesting.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:I mean, that's very nice touch to you say have a good day, because I make a habit of saying great morning to my team every morning I.
Speaker A:I log on for work.
Speaker A:Like, I would send a gift and then I would say great mornings.
Speaker A:Because I don't want to say good.
Speaker A:I want a great morning.
Speaker A:I don't want a good morning.
Speaker A:I want a great morning.
Speaker A:Like, I want a great day.
Speaker A:I want to start off the tone in a positive, very positive manner.
Speaker A:And that was one thing I learned is language.
Speaker A:How do you talk to yourself?
Speaker A:Like, you can change things.
Speaker A:People go, oh, great morning or great afternoon?
Speaker A:Like, why great?
Speaker A:I was like, why not?
Speaker A:Why good?
Speaker A:Why settle for good?
Speaker A:Why not a great day?
Speaker A:Why not a great afternoon?
Speaker A:They're just changing those little languages, like, little tweaks.
Speaker A:Like, we're so used to people, oh, good morning or morning even.
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker A:Just like you even should you even cut down.
Speaker A:You get so lazy with saying the whole good morning.
Speaker A:We say morning.
Speaker A:It's like, well, yeah, morning too.
Speaker B:Like, feeling attacked here, John.
Speaker B:I'll feel attacked.
Speaker A:But like, that's.
Speaker A:That's just how we are, how we've been brought up to be with the society and the behaviors of other people.
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker A:But why not change it for ourselves?
Speaker A:Like, how do I want people to greet me?
Speaker A:Like you said, if you go to a hotel, for instance, you would.
Speaker A:If you get people to do their jobs correctly, check you in and that stuff.
Speaker A:That's great.
Speaker A:Before if they went beyond that.
Speaker A:For instance, when I went to Vietnam, here's a short story that before I even checked into the hotel that I was due to go to in Da Nang, they Whatsapped me three days beforehand and goes, hello, Mr.
Speaker A:Poon.
Speaker A:Thank you for checking.
Speaker A:Thank you for booking with us.
Speaker A:We noted.
Speaker A:We got your booking, we got your reservation.
Speaker A:What day and time are you going to arrive?
Speaker A:Because we're going to send someone to pick you up at the airport.
Speaker A:I was just like, what?
Speaker A:I didn't even pay for this.
Speaker A:I was like, is this, is this chargeable?
Speaker A:Like, they're like, no, it's free.
Speaker A:It's com.
Speaker A:It's complimentary.
Speaker A:I just like, wow.
Speaker A:And this person made a, you know, made the effort to reach me.
Speaker A:Reach.
Speaker A:Reach out to me three to four days beforehand just to make sure that I, you know, all the details are there.
Speaker A:And that's the difference between someone who's willing to make the extra effort to make that difference.
Speaker A:Yeah, your whole experience changes.
Speaker A:Like, I'm so impressed with them that I would refer anyone to them because they made my experience so joyful, so, so amazing.
Speaker A:Like, they were the customer service.
Speaker A:From picking me up to when I got in, like, people taking my bags in, that's just, that's normal kind of thing.
Speaker A:But I'm grateful they, they kind of made that reach out and just that message to say, hey, what time are you landing?
Speaker A:Like, we'll send someone to pick you up.
Speaker A:It's like, well, that's different.
Speaker A:Like, not every hotel.
Speaker A:If everywhere, every.
Speaker A:Every hotel did that, it'd be good.
Speaker A:But like, you know, they have to obviously work about their costs and stuff.
Speaker A:Like, but, you know, they, they int.
Speaker A:They kept it as part of their package or whatever their reservations is.
Speaker A:Like, I don't know if they did that to everyone else, but it was one that I remembered and I would.
Speaker B:Just for you, Jono?
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Like, I don't know, but like, it was great.
Speaker A:But I didn't have any special bookings or anything like that.
Speaker A:It's just a normal standard, standard double bedroom.
Speaker A:But those kind of service makes a difference.
Speaker A:You know, being kind and being extra effort, making an extra effort to do go beyond that.
Speaker B:And that applies to everything.
Speaker B:I'm going to use our example as an industry here, as a driving instructors.
Speaker B:It's approaching that first lesson.
Speaker B:You know the difference for you, Jono?
Speaker B:You're come to me for your first lesson.
Speaker B:I can message you the week before.
Speaker B:I can have arranged a phone call the week before and talk to you.
Speaker B:And tell you what to expect.
Speaker B:I can say, I'm going to get here a bit early just in case you've got any questions beforehand.
Speaker B:But feel free to come out on time.
Speaker B:When I get there, I can come and knock on your door.
Speaker B:I could ring you, I could text you, I can get out of the car to come and greet you, or I could just turn up and go outside and then you have to come out and get in the car.
Speaker B:Now, admittedly, I sometimes do that because I like my joke of I'm guessing you're John or not some stranger getting in my car, but that's a different thing.
Speaker B:But it's just those, those little things.
Speaker B:And like you said, the difference between saying great morning to someone, which is what you do, and just saying morning someone, which is what I do, is it's chalk and cheese.
Speaker B:And it's so easy to make someone's day.
Speaker B:And just imagine if more people did that.
Speaker B:Just.
Speaker B:And also, you've said this kind of a few times today.
Speaker B:It makes you feel good, you know, when you're being the positive person, you're reaching out.
Speaker B:When you help someone, whether it's volunteering or you see someone struggling and reach out, it makes you feel good as well.
Speaker B:So, yeah, Wise words or John or wise words.
Speaker A:It's hard sometimes when you don't feel like good, you know, sometimes you are not.
Speaker A:Every morning that I feel like I'm in a positive mood, some days I'll probably feel like I'm miserable and unhappy and just it's hot, it's sticky and it's whatever, right?
Speaker A:And it's just like you could be grumpy, but then how's that going to make you feel for the rest of the day if you start off your day like that?
Speaker A:So setting off your day from the beginning, from the get go, sets the tone for the rest of the day.
Speaker A:So if you start in a positive mood, likely most of the day will scope positive as hard as it is.
Speaker B:Wise words as always.
Speaker B:But one of the things I have brought back into the podcast is songs.
Speaker B:So I'm asking every guest to contribute a song towards the instructor podcast playlist.
Speaker B:The song I have decided to contribute this time in honor of almost no one we're talking about.
Speaker B:It's Three Little Birds by Bob Marley that is going on on the playlist.
Speaker B:What song are you chucking our way?
Speaker A:It's a interesting one.
Speaker A:This one I came across.
Speaker A:I can't remember where I came across it, but the artist I think is called the Conqueror and the Title is Everything Will be okay.
Speaker B:I do not know this one, so it's another one.
Speaker B:I don't know people come that way recently, so I'll look forward to discovering it and, and ranking you and letting you know whether it's any good or not.
Speaker A:Brilliant.
Speaker A:Thank you so much.
Speaker A:I appreciate it.
Speaker B:You want to just take a final moment just to tell people where they can find you?
Speaker A:Yeah, if they want to follow me on Instagram, it's Jonopun pretty much for all my handles.
Speaker A:So, yeah, I mean, I look forward to connecting with.
Speaker A:If anyone find anything useful, anything helpful, anything they want to talk about that they, you know, found interesting or they struggle to with anything that they're going through, feel free to reach out to me.
Speaker A:I'm always happy to include links to.
Speaker B:Everything we spoke about in today's workbook, but all that's left to me to say is thank you for joining me, Jono.
Speaker B:It's been awesome.
Speaker B:As always.
Speaker A:Thank you so much.
Speaker A:Appreciate it.
Speaker B:So a big thank you to Jono Poon for joining me today.
Speaker B:I always love talking to Jono and I get some good feedback whenever he comes on.
Speaker B:I love his insights and you'll probably hear from the episode.
Speaker B:He's such a warm, generous, giving person as well.
Speaker B:And I think he's the example of what we should be and particularly what we as men should be when it comes to listening to others and accepting others.
Speaker B:You know, I gave my example there of how after the the Guardians of the Galaxy 3, when I was feeling a bit low, he was someone I reached out to and he was there for me, even though I didn't necessarily realize it at the time.
Speaker B:And it's interesting with this episode because I often do something Vince National Women's Day.
Speaker B:You know, I've given over the podcast before, not had a male voice on it and that sort of stuff.
Speaker B:But I don't often do things for like men, if you like, and I think I often see it as, well, I'm a bloke anyway.
Speaker B:But I don't know, I think maybe we could take a bit more approach.
Speaker B:We are, you know, male dominated industry, so maybe I can lead a bit more on that.
Speaker B:So hope that you found this useful.
Speaker B:If you are struggling, as we said during the episode, if you please reach out.
Speaker B:There are links in the show notes, there are links in the episode workbook.
Speaker B:Do not suffer in silence.
Speaker B:Go and get help.
Speaker B:Because one of the things that Jono asked about during that episode was what's the hardest lesson you've learned in life?
Speaker B:And when he said it, mine immediately came to me.
Speaker B:So I thought I'd take a minute at the end this episode to share it with you, because the hardest lesson I learned in life was it's worth it.
Speaker B:And the reason it's hard to learn that lesson is because it doesn't feel like it.
Speaker B:You know, when I look back at my divorce, for example, my initial thought process was, well, that was a waste of 10 years.
Speaker B:But it took me a long time to realize none of that was worth it.
Speaker B:I had a good 10 years.
Speaker B:I can accept that that marriage has ended and on a different chapter of my life now, and I can apply that to other areas.
Speaker B:I think I've spoke about this before, but when my dog died, I was distraught.
Speaker B: t horrible year I had back in: Speaker B:And I think, no, I know it was worth it.
Speaker B:The seven years I had with my dog was worth the pain I had of losing her.
Speaker B:And I can relate that to other people I've lost as well.
Speaker B:But if I'm being honest, the dog bothers me still to this day.
Speaker B:But it was worth it because of the time I got to spend with her.
Speaker B:The pain afterwards was worth it.
Speaker B:And it doesn't feel like that at the time, and that's why it's such a hard lesson to learn.
Speaker B:But I think I can see that now when something's gone wrong, whether it be finances, whether it be be something a bit less serious, just like a podcast that doesn't go well or a video that doesn't go well, however, it's something a bit more dramatic, like receiving abuse online or death as we touched upon.
Speaker B:I think accepting that it's worth it helps me get through it.
Speaker B:And that might not work for you, but just knowing that in the midst of all this, it doesn't feel like it.
Speaker B:And it may take years, but for me, it's still worth it.
Speaker B:And look, you may have a different opinion on that.
Speaker B:I'm not telling you how to feel, but I thought I'd share my hardest life lesson, and it's that it's worth it.
Speaker B:So one last time, if you are struggling, please reach out.
Speaker B:Whether it's to a friend or a random stranger on Facebook, like, I need to speak, or whether it's the Samaritans or whoever.
Speaker B:I've used Samaritans before.
Speaker B:They're an awesome resource.
Speaker B:So, yeah, links in the show notes or reach out to someone, but stay strong.
Speaker B:Let's keep racing standards and driving instructors to Vision Zero, the instructor podcast with.
Speaker A:Terry Cook, talking with leaders, innovators, experts.
Speaker B:And game changers about what drives them.
