Why writing your driving instructor book is important
Mitali is a best selling author in 4 different countries with the book - The freedom master plan.
In this episode she shares insight into her experience learning to drive and how dyspraxia made her stop driving. Mitali also shares her thoughts on her instructor and how that shaped her view of the industry. We discuss the idea of being an entrepreneur and how it relates to different roles. We also talk in depth about her book, how she stepped out her comfort zone to write it and why more people should be doing it.
You can find out more about Mitali and her book at https://thefreedommasterplan.com/
We're also joined again by Chris Bensted of the DITC with all the latest news from within the industry.
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Transcript
Foreign welcome and thank you for joining us on the Instructor podcast, where every week we're joined by experts and innovators, leaders and game changers so we can hold a mirror up at the instructor industry and see where we can improve and raise our standards.
Speaker A:So if you're ready, we'll make a start.
Speaker A:So thank you for joining us today on episode six of the instructor Podcast.
Speaker A:We hope you're enjoying these podcasts and if you are, make sure you click subscribe or Follow wherever you're listening to us.
Speaker A:They drop into your feed every Sunday morning, unless you're driving, of course.
Speaker A:If you're driving, pull up safely at the side of the road, do that now, and then click subscribe or follow wherever you're listening.
Speaker A:So today we are going to be joined by Mitali de Pakestra and she's got some wonderful insights on her business and on what we can do to improve our business at the driving instructor industry.
Speaker A:She talks about her past experiences and how dyspraxia hampered her learning and her test and then stopped her from driving further on.
Speaker A:She asked a lot of questions about our industry and surprised by some of the answers.
Speaker A:Now, I think at times maybe I was a little harsh with some of the answers I was given, but there's definitely a lot of truth in what I was saying.
Speaker A:So I'll let you listen to this and make your own mind up on that.
Speaker A:We're also joined at the end of the episode by Chris Benad of the DITC again, who's given us his latest news feed.
Speaker A:So make sure you stay to the end of the podcast so you can catch one of the latest news on the instructor industry and yeah, I'll leave it there and let you enjoy the show.
Speaker A:Welcome to the Driving Instructor Podcast and today we are joined by the lovely and wonderfully special Metalli de Picastra.
Speaker A:How did I do with your surname?
Speaker B:You actually did really well.
Speaker B:You kind of mangled the end of it.
Speaker B:It's De Pacasta.
Speaker B:He did very well.
Speaker B:You did very well.
Speaker A:I'll take that.
Speaker A:It's not bad for a first attempt.
Speaker A:How are you today?
Speaker B:I'm well, I'm very well.
Speaker B:Thank you for having me here.
Speaker A:No, thank you for joining us.
Speaker A:Before we get stuck in, I think what I'd like to do is just ask you a little bit about your background and what you do now and what you're doing for a living and all that kind of stuff where you're at now.
Speaker A:So do you want to tell us a little bit about yourself?
Speaker B:Okay, well, I'm a book coach and book publisher.
Speaker B:Business books, really.
Speaker B:I don't know anything about novels or poetry or anything like that.
Speaker B:So it's definitely business.
Speaker B:I've been, up until last year, I was working as a ghostwriter and a copywriter.
Speaker B:I'd written seven books by last year and numerous sales pages and landing pages and that kind of thing as a copywriter.
Speaker B:And then last year I decided, well, I'd got writing a book down to a six week structure.
Speaker B:So my very first book that I was asked to ghostwrite took me over a year to write and the seventh book took, yeah, just under six weeks to write.
Speaker B:So I figured, why don't I teach this structure to other people?
Speaker B:It just means that I can help more people that way.
Speaker B:Because let's face it, there's not a lot of people that can afford a great copywriter or a ghostwriter if I show them how to do it themselves.
Speaker B:It just means the average coach, consultant, instructor can actually do it.
Speaker B: can get Ghostwriters for just: Speaker B:So normally I would say you'd expect to pay at least £10,000 for a ghostwriter and that I would say for a short book, a decent sized book, I would say over 100 pages, you're looking at 20,000 upwards.
Speaker B:So it goes beyond the realm of what most entrepreneurs can afford.
Speaker B:So I just had this, I don't know, maybe it was because of the pandemic, seeing loads of some of my friends lost their businesses and me just feeling bad and feeling a bit jammy, you know, because I actually didn't, I was doing really well.
Speaker B:In fact, if you ask any sort of content writer, ghostwriter, copywriter, they'll tell you last year their business went through the roof because with everyone stuck at home on their screens, guess what?
Speaker B:Everybody needed more content.
Speaker B:So we did really well out of the pandemic.
Speaker B:So I didn't even need to change or that annoying word pivot.
Speaker B: e everyone used it so much in: Speaker B:But I didn't need to do any of those things.
Speaker B:Although ironically, I ended up pivoting.
Speaker B:I ended up moving from being a ghostwriter to becoming a book coach and a publisher.
Speaker C:But.
Speaker B:But I guess I just wanted to see how I can help people.
Speaker B:And I just thought as a ghostwriter and a copywriter, I'm making the rich even richer.
Speaker B:Whereas if I can teach people how to do things themselves.
Speaker B:I'm now helping the majority of entrepreneurs out there.
Speaker B:So that was the thinking behind it.
Speaker A:That's pretty awesome.
Speaker A:It's interesting what you're saying there about the pandemic, because that's kind of part of the reason almost how I brought you on, because as an industry, we were quite hardly hit, you know, we weren't allowed to teach.
Speaker A:And someone like me who had pretty much relied solely on an income from lessons, I had nothing else that taught me quite a valuable lesson, that, you know, a second income from somewhere might be nice.
Speaker A:So there were some instructors out there that had that.
Speaker A:So that's part of the reason we've brought you on.
Speaker A:Talk about books and how people, how we as instructors potentially can go on and do that.
Speaker A:But before I move on to that, I was talking to you previously.
Speaker A:Found out some interesting tidbits about your driving experience.
Speaker A:So do you want to tell me.
Speaker B:About your experience learning it wasn't good.
Speaker B:Now I have to.
Speaker B:You have to remember my impressions of the industry.
Speaker B:They are, gosh, I'm showing my age.
Speaker B:We're talking over 25 years ago.
Speaker B:So I know the industry has changed a lot since then.
Speaker B:So, you know, I don't want to offend any of your listeners who will be thinking, oh, my God, she has a really bad.
Speaker B:The impression is from a long time ago.
Speaker B:So I'm in my 40s now and I passed my test when I was 17.
Speaker B:Second time around, failed the first time.
Speaker B:But I had two instructors.
Speaker B:One just gave up on me, just said, and actually was so horrible to me, said, I can't see anybody being able to help you drive.
Speaker B:In other words, it was just your fault you're stupid kind of thing.
Speaker B:The second one was kinder to me, but I can still see the exasperation.
Speaker B:And I know I'm a difficult student.
Speaker B:I was listening.
Speaker B:It's not that I'm one of these students who don't want to listen.
Speaker B:I'm very good at listening.
Speaker B:I just.
Speaker B:I didn't know why.
Speaker B:I come from a very academic background.
Speaker B:I was always a person who found exams really easy.
Speaker B:But the practical stuff, it just didn't.
Speaker B:It just wasn't coming to me.
Speaker B:I can hear the logic.
Speaker B:And yet my.
Speaker B:My hands and my feet were not doing what my brain is trying to tell them to do.
Speaker B:And it was only much later I actually.
Speaker B:Well, actually, what happened was I passed the second time and I did start driving sporadically.
Speaker B:I never really had a car for any long periods of time.
Speaker B:Only because I ended up being a bit of a.
Speaker B:In my 20s, I was a bit of a party girl.
Speaker B:And I liked living in city centers because you can just literally leave your apartment and there it was, all the bars and clubs and restaurants you could ever want.
Speaker B:So you don't really need a car, you know.
Speaker B:So I would have a car sporadically here and there, maybe for a year here, and then I'd get rid of it.
Speaker B:And then maybe three years later I had another car for another year, that kind of thing.
Speaker B:Never had a car for much, but in the few years that I did have a car, managed to write off three cars.
Speaker B:And I actually cannot remember how many fender benders I've had.
Speaker B:At one stage, my insurance was more expensive than my car.
Speaker B:It was that bad.
Speaker B:And then I written off my final car when I just thought, this is just stupid.
Speaker B:I obviously just can't drive.
Speaker B:And then in a complete unrelated thing, I was visiting the doctor and he just noticed something as I was moving, trying to move around the side of his table to sit down where the patient sits, and I just knocked my hip.
Speaker B:And he just said, do you do that often?
Speaker B:And I went, yeah, I've always, always got scrapes on my hips and on my shoulders.
Speaker B:You know, I always misjudged doorways and stuff like that.
Speaker B:And he said, can I just do some tests on you?
Speaker B:I did the test and, you know, a week or so later it came back that I have moderate dyspraxia, which had remained undiagnosed up until that point, which now made sense why I was crashing so many cars.
Speaker B:And it does beg the question, why on earth was I even given a license the second time?
Speaker B:I shouldn't even be given a license back then, really.
Speaker B:It must have been a really sympathetic examiner, I have to assume.
Speaker B:But as soon as I heard that that was it as far as I was concerned, that terrified me.
Speaker B:Not so much for me, but I just thought, I don't think I can live with myself if I accidentally kill someone on the road.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:So with that knowledge, I took myself off the road.
Speaker B:And because of the experiences that I had when I was younger, I didn't even look into, well, maybe I should try and learn again.
Speaker B:But actually now the instructor would know that I have dyspraxia, which is silly because things have moved on.
Speaker B:I mean, I just look at schools now, and when I was growing up, I'm an 80s kid, and when I was growing up, you know, kids that we now know, we would call them dyslexic.
Speaker B:They're not stupid, they're dyslexic, and they can be incredibly bright.
Speaker B:But in.
Speaker B:In the 80s, you were just stupid if you didn't pick things up.
Speaker B:You were put in the.
Speaker B:In the low section, you know.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah, you have.
Speaker B:You had the, you know, you had the bright kids on one side of the class, and you had, you know, the people who weren't so bright on the other side of the class.
Speaker B:And that's how it was.
Speaker B:And I've seen how schools have changed completely now, and teachers are much more aware of all the different kinds of learning disabilities.
Speaker B:So I would have to assume.
Speaker B:You tell me here, Terry, but I have to assume that the driving world is also, you know, come of age and no longer, you know, you're just stupid.
Speaker B:It's not that they're very aware of all the different disabilities that people have, and they will cater to those disabilities.
Speaker C:The.
Speaker A:One of the reasons behind this podcast is because we haven't largely as an industry.
Speaker A:Yeah, again, there will be people disagree with this.
Speaker A:I appreciate that.
Speaker A:But largely, I don't believe we have.
Speaker A:And I speak from experience, because I've been doing this about five years now, and I would probably say the first two and a half.
Speaker A:I was rooted back in that 80s mindset in the way that partly I was trained, but partly in how I saw other instructors do it, and partly the conversations that happen at test centers and part of the conversations that happen in Facebook groups.
Speaker A:And there is a large, I don't know, in my opinion, majority of people within our industry that why should we change?
Speaker A:This is the way we've always done it.
Speaker A:And this.
Speaker A:This is genuinely part of the reason for the podcast.
Speaker A:It's the.
Speaker A:The tagline is instructor, health, self and wealth.
Speaker A:So it's looking to develop that and make improve not just instructors so that we're better on the roads, but instructors so that we have better lives ourselves.
Speaker A:And it's taken me a couple of years to make any adjustment to what I'm doing.
Speaker A:So there are specialist instructors out there.
Speaker A:There are people that.
Speaker A:That I've got on this podcast, I believe are industry leaders and innovators and game changers.
Speaker A:I think that, including me, there's a lot of catching up that needs to be done.
Speaker B:So what you're saying is I was probably right to just give up on driving at the age of 32 and just say, yeah, I don't want to go back.
Speaker B:And I was just scared.
Speaker B:Honestly, I was scared.
Speaker B:I didn't, you know, I just didn't want to go through it again.
Speaker B:I just didn't want to go through, you know, and it was always for me.
Speaker B:Now I see it makes so much sense now that, you know, I just couldn't judge distances so I couldn't work out how far away I need to be from parked cars, for example, on the left hand side or how far away I need to be, you know, with, in lanes, you know, and making sure that you share the road space.
Speaker B:And how do you, you know, someone who has dyspraxia, they find it really difficult to do that.
Speaker B:But it was undiagnosed all that time.
Speaker B:So I genuinely just thought it just wasn't for me.
Speaker B:Something wasn't clicking.
Speaker A:I think it's a brave decision, only you know whether it's the right decision or not.
Speaker A:I would say if you can find the right instructor, it's worth giving it another go because as much as I say the interest hasn't changed.
Speaker A:I'm probably being maybe a touch harsh, but I'm not meaning to criticize every instructor out there.
Speaker A:I think everyone's different in different scenarios.
Speaker A:But there will be people that I believe that could help you learn to drive.
Speaker A:But again, at the end of the day, only you can make that decision.
Speaker A:So if you don't feel like it would be safe on the road, then that's probably a wise decision.
Speaker A:But I also think if you could find the right person for you, they may be able to help you with those problems.
Speaker B:Specifically, I think it's almost like I want somebody who will be able to give me shorthands, a way of, there are ways around it.
Speaker B:It's like, you know, dyslexic children now, they have different tools so they can read now so the words aren't jumbled in front of them.
Speaker B:If, I don't know if that, if that is possible.
Speaker B:But you know, an instructor who can just give me shorthands, you know, this is, you know, I remember my second instructor trying to get me to do, you know, the three point turn and he, the only way he was able to successfully get me to do it was to, you know, you, you lock the, you lock the wheel.
Speaker B:But then he gave me a point that I need to look at over my shoulder and as soon as I can see the back of the car hit that bit, then I can let go of the lock.
Speaker B:And then that doesn't involve me thinking too much about distance, which is what I couldn't do anyway.
Speaker B:So maybe somebody who understands that and is able to give me show answer.
Speaker B:But it's still, it makes me nervous.
Speaker A:There's, there's ways around that and a lot of it now.
Speaker A:And I think this is where the, the industry starts to change that.
Speaker A:Rather than telling you those, those reference points you mentioned, we let you find them.
Speaker A:So rather than, for example, you're doing that three points and rather than me say, oh, when that gets to there, you do this, you'll get to that point.
Speaker A:I'll ask you, okay, where's the curb now?
Speaker A:So it's, it is making you think about it, but it's giving you a sort of definitive to thing to look for.
Speaker A:You find it and then you've, you've found it and then hopefully there's develops an understanding as well that then can be applied to other things.
Speaker A:But yeah, I'm just going to touch back on what I was saying before.
Speaker A:The industry has moved on, but a large part of it is left behind.
Speaker A:And that's what, you know, part of what I'm speaking to you about today, to look for different ways that we can help instructors.
Speaker A:So just speaking about going on to the books for a second, in fact, just before we do that, actually you mentioned about entrepreneurs before.
Speaker A:I'd be interested to get your thoughts on this.
Speaker A:Driving instructors.
Speaker A:So like an independent, small local driving instructor such as myself or anyone in this shoes, entrepreneur or small business owner?
Speaker B:Oh, gosh, I would say it depends on the personality.
Speaker B:It depends on what that person is doing.
Speaker B:For me, I would say some people disagree with me here, but the distinction I make in my head when it comes to, you know, business owner, small business owner or entrepreneur is a small business owner really has given themselves a job.
Speaker B:So really they're not doing anything different than being employed by somebody.
Speaker B:The only difference really is they have to fill in these annoying tax forms at the end of the year.
Speaker B:But they're essentially, they are trading time for money.
Speaker B:And that is the same whether you're an employee or whether you own a business.
Speaker B:The difference really is you just have to find your own leads.
Speaker B:You have to find.
Speaker B:Whereas if you worked for a big business, I assume they do all the lead generation and they book people in and you're just told this is where you need to go from one day to the next.
Speaker B:For me, an entrepreneur is somebody who thinks in terms of creating assets, you know, so they start thinking and, you know, I don't know, you tell me if this has happened in the driving industry.
Speaker B:But you know, last year, I'm sure was a terrible year for most driving instructors because they kind of have to just stop doing all of them.
Speaker B:And were there driving instructors who thought, you know, against out of the box a little bit and started to create maybe videos or tutorials and maybe monetize that created some sort of monthly subscription where, you know, you can download all these videos or it's.
Speaker B:It's all about.
Speaker B:You change from just thinking of trading time for money, and you start to think of what assets can I create so that then they can carry on.
Speaker B:You can almost start creating to the point where they just make money for you without you doing too much to keep the fire going, you know, and that.
Speaker B:I don't know.
Speaker B:I mean, some people go, no, no, no, you're.
Speaker B:You're just.
Speaker B:You overthinking it all.
Speaker B:Entrepreneur is, is the French word for small business owner.
Speaker B:So really, you know, you're just using the French word against the English word they thing.
Speaker B:But in my head, that's how I've always said an entrepreneur is somebody who really is thinking constantly about growing their business, taking things to the next level, you know, whereas a small business owner tends to.
Speaker B:They hit a certain level of income, and that's what they do.
Speaker B:And like I said, they've kind of given themselves a job, which there's nothing wrong with it.
Speaker B:Some people are happy with that, you know, and that's absolutely great.
Speaker B:But they don't really.
Speaker B:Either they don't have the wish to grow any bigger, or they don't know how to go.
Speaker B:They've never learned the art of entrepreneurship, so all they've ever known is you get paid for the amount of time you put in.
Speaker B:So if I do 50 hours of driving instruction last week, this is how much I'm going to get paid and that's it.
Speaker B:They don't think in terms of.
Speaker B:Yeah, but what if I can create a second or a third income stream that's maybe more automated or even passive that can supplement that?
Speaker B:They're not thinking in terms like that way, maybe because they've never learned to think like that.
Speaker A:It's a really interesting take on it.
Speaker A:And you asked about instructors thinking outside the box, and I am massively reluctant to use myself as a positive example here, so I'll use a different one.
Speaker A:But yes, there are.
Speaker A:There were instructors that started their own subscription services for other instructors to come and learn training from them.
Speaker A:Yeah, there's.
Speaker A:There were instructors doing zoom driving lessons, like on the cockpit drill.
Speaker A:There were people doing theory test trainings.
Speaker A:Another instructor podcast I started, aside from this one.
Speaker A:No, no, that's not monetizing.
Speaker A:It but, you know, the future down the line or whatever.
Speaker A:So there were people that, that stepped out and I was.
Speaker A:Something that inspired me to do this.
Speaker A:They're the people that I want to talk to, you know.
Speaker A:Yeah, but you made some interesting points here as well, because I.
Speaker A:And I'd love to hear your opinion on this.
Speaker A:I'm someone that believes it's almost too easy to run your own driving school because I pass my tests to be an instructor and then all of a sudden I'm running my own business.
Speaker A:There's no training there.
Speaker A:You just do it.
Speaker A:And you've never been shown how to do a P and L. You never know anything about marketing and you just kind of fall into a groove and you fall.
Speaker A:And I think that's a little bit of why the industry is lagging, because all these people don't know what they're doing.
Speaker A:They fall into line with everybody else.
Speaker B:I think what you've just described is, it's far bigger than just the driving instructor industry.
Speaker B:I think you'll find it's with all kinds of instructors, coaches, consultants.
Speaker B:What their qualifications do is essentially teach them how to do that thing, that service.
Speaker B:But business skills is a whole other skill set altogether.
Speaker B:You know, that's what.
Speaker B:For example, teachers understand that because, you know, say, for example, you've got a degree in geography doesn't necessarily mean that you can now just go to a high school and apply for it.
Speaker B:To teach geography, you have to do a separate qualification.
Speaker B:I think it's called the PGCE or something.
Speaker B:You have to do a separate qualification and that teaches you how to teach because that in itself is a separate skill.
Speaker B:Just you knowing everything there is to know about geography doesn't necessarily mean you can teach it, you know, so in the same way, there's a lot of people, there's a lot of industries out there where people are learning a skill.
Speaker B:For example, a coach, they want to be a life coach.
Speaker B:So they go and do this program and they get certified as a life coach and they're going, great, wonderful.
Speaker B:And there was almost this expectation that soon they just can just put this website up and they'll be flooded with offers and all these people are going to come and see them going to have such an amazing time as a life coach, coach.
Speaker B:And then it's.
Speaker B:It's crickets, you know, and they're going, oh, I actually now need to learn marketing and lead generation and, and sales calls and closing, and no one's taught me this stuff.
Speaker B:And it's a shame.
Speaker B:There's Lots of people who, who are in that situation and they have to learn on the job and make a lot of mistakes along the way.
Speaker A:Again, you raised some, some really interesting points.
Speaker A:And it's something because I'm in this industry, I'm really.
Speaker A:I only know what's going on in this industry in a sense.
Speaker A:So when you're talking about being every student, as soon as you say that it's like, yeah, it probably is, you know, but you kind of almost stagnant.
Speaker A:Not stagnant, I can't think of the word.
Speaker A:But you're stuck in the industry you're in and.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And you can't see past that.
Speaker A:And it is probably a bigger thing.
Speaker A:So what would you consider yourself an entrepreneur?
Speaker B:Yes, I would.
Speaker B:God, now I sound like I'm just blowing my own trumpet, aren't I?
Speaker B:But like, yes, I would because I think there was.
Speaker B:I actually remember specifically when I changed from being a small business owner to what I believe is an entrepreneur going against again, what my definitions are.
Speaker B:I know other people will disagree with me.
Speaker B: ent, so this is going back to: Speaker B:So I was a content writer.
Speaker B:So I was a writer for her.
Speaker B:You can just hire me to write whatever you want.
Speaker B:There's some funny stories there, Terry, about some of the things I wrote.
Speaker B:I remember spending two weeks writing an 80 page ebook on mattresses.
Speaker B:Yes, I know.
Speaker B:If ever you want to know memory foam, which kind of springs you need, I'm here.
Speaker B:I'll let you know.
Speaker B:The most boring thing ever.
Speaker B:But wow.
Speaker B:I know everything there is to know about mattresses now.
Speaker B:I spent.
Speaker B:I had a long term client who was based in Arkansas and he had a gun store.
Speaker B:So I spent, you know, easily five to six hours a week for nearly two years writing about guns.
Speaker B:I've never even handled one in my whole life.
Speaker B:I don't want to, I don't want to ever hold a gun.
Speaker B:And yet I was writing for this gun store and I was about all the different kinds of guns he sold the different kinds of holsters, which ones goes with everything.
Speaker B:How to shoot.
Speaker B:Never shot anybody in my life.
Speaker B:I've written articles on how to shoot people, even in the dark.
Speaker B:Quite worrying really.
Speaker B: ll, I did spend the summer of: Speaker B:Never ever felt the need to use one with any partner I've had in the past.
Speaker B:But now I know everything there is to know about cock rings because my client at the time was a Lovehoney affiliate that was My month long assignment, he had all these different cock rings.
Speaker B:I had no idea there was so many different kinds.
Speaker B:And I had to write reviews without using them.
Speaker B:Reviews of all of them and what they all did.
Speaker B:So, yeah, I learned a lot.
Speaker B:But the one key thing was I was, you know the definition I just gave you before, which was, you're trading time for money.
Speaker B:That's what I was doing.
Speaker B:So if I wasn't typing away and writing articles, I wasn't making any money.
Speaker B:But the time, I had no idea.
Speaker B:I wasn't.
Speaker B:I was just happy.
Speaker B:I was happy that I could open my laptop with Jeremy Kyle on in the background right away and I was making money.
Speaker B:And I was watching smugly, I have to admit, watching my neighbors getting out in the rain and huddling at bus stops and, you know, shivering away trying to get to work.
Speaker B:I thought I'd made it just because I can sit in my onesie and I can type away and make money.
Speaker B:So I was very happy with my life.
Speaker B:I didn't know any different.
Speaker B:And then it was meeting a entrepreneur called Jo Barnes.
Speaker B:She actually flew.
Speaker B:I went to live in Thailand for a while.
Speaker B:She flew me out because she wanted me to work with her, building her business and under her.
Speaker B:That's when I learned the art of being an entrepreneur.
Speaker B:And that's when I can see that she wasn't thinking in terms of do work, get paid, do work, then get paid, do it.
Speaker B:She always think in terms of, how do I do this so well that I can do the work once or maybe twice, and then it starts taking over by itself.
Speaker B:So she, her brain was completely programmed into thinking of digital assets.
Speaker B:And that blew my mind.
Speaker B:I didn't even know what that was.
Speaker B:And I thought, oh my God.
Speaker B:So then when I moved back to the uk, also under tutelage, I learned copywriting, which I realized was far more lucrative than content writing.
Speaker B:Copywriters get paid more because you're writing copy that directly leads to sales, so you have to be really good.
Speaker B:Whereas content, it all leads to sales.
Speaker B:That's the whole point of marketing, but it's more indirect.
Speaker B:People are just reading information and they may or may not at some point become a customer of yours.
Speaker B:Whereas a copywriter is writing landing pages, sales pages, things that make people click the buy button and buy spend money.
Speaker B:So obviously the writing needs to go up a notch and they're paid more.
Speaker B:So I learned copywriting from her.
Speaker B:And when I came back to the uk, I decided I want to do copywriting.
Speaker B:But now, armed with my new Talents as an entrepreneur.
Speaker B:Instead of, oh, this is how much I charge for a sales page.
Speaker B:You just pay me and I write it.
Speaker B:I started to barter with them and said, okay, well, instead of you paying me $2,000 to write this sales page, why don't you pay me 500 to get it started?
Speaker B:But then you give me 5,5% of every sale that you make.
Speaker B:Because what I was doing was building residual income.
Speaker B:Because that product or service, it could be on their sales.
Speaker B:Sorry, on their website for years, indefinitely.
Speaker B:If it's a good product or service, it could be there indefinitely.
Speaker B:It means I'm being paid, even if it's only literally $30 a month.
Speaker B:But $30 if I have a few of these pages and landing pages and assets everywhere, and if they're all just paying me 30, 40 pounds or dollars or whatever, altogether I built up a nice income.
Speaker B:Well, I'm not even.
Speaker B:The work's already done.
Speaker B:I'm not even doing that anymore.
Speaker B:And that's completely transformed the way I think and that I still think now.
Speaker B:Even now, I do things as creating assets so I can monetize again and again and again.
Speaker A:I mean, some real sort of key points you've made there.
Speaker A:But you've made a bit of a problem for me that I'm still thinking about cock rings.
Speaker A:And you know full well that I'm gonna use that as a clip when I.
Speaker A:When I promote this.
Speaker B:Please do.
Speaker B:Please do.
Speaker B:I don't mind.
Speaker B:It's.
Speaker B:Everyone laughs as soon as I say it's like, are you serious?
Speaker B:They think I'm like, no, I'm serious.
Speaker B:A whole month of August, it was a heat wave as well.
Speaker B:2014.
Speaker B:So it was a heat wave.
Speaker B:And it was just me in my back garden with.
Speaker B:With my laptop open, writing reviews of cock rings.
Speaker B:Wooden ones, metal ones, plastic ones, ones that vibrate.
Speaker B:Every single kind that you can think of.
Speaker B:It was just a funny moment.
Speaker A:I mean, moving on.
Speaker A:I think there's a couple of points there that you've obviously spoke about residual income.
Speaker A:Now, again, this is some of the.
Speaker A:I'm not asking for a suggestion here, by the way, but like, for driving instructors, there's hundreds of thousands of people every year that are learning to drive.
Speaker A:There's parents that want to help their kids learn to drive.
Speaker A:There's opportunities there.
Speaker A:And I don't think that we're making the most of them.
Speaker A:And there is a negativity within the instructor industry around us as instructors paying for things.
Speaker A:So I will happily go out and pay for training, Pay for Development and pay for courses and that kind of thing.
Speaker A:But there's largely this negative, I won't do that, why should I do that?
Speaker A:And that's something that I think we really need to get over.
Speaker A:But I also just want to touch back on what you were saying about earlier, about when you were almost went from being a small business owner to an entrepreneur.
Speaker A:What, if any advice would you give to an instructor that just passed their test?
Speaker A:They've got the car, they've got some customers.
Speaker A:What advice would you give to that person now that wants to even move on or just learn some new skills or.
Speaker B:I would just say that never stop investing in yourself.
Speaker B:I mean, that makes me sad what you just said before, that a lot of people think, well, why should I have to do it?
Speaker B:That shouldn't even be the question.
Speaker B:The question should be, why shouldn't you?
Speaker B:You know, the people who are ahead, not just in the driving world, I'm talking about in any industry, the people that are ahead are the ones who are.
Speaker B:It's part of their DNA to always be learning, always be getting ahead, always be thinking, well, what can I do that's different?
Speaker B:That's going to make me unique, that's going to build my authority, that's going to not make me sound like every other person in this industry.
Speaker B:They're constantly thinking ahead.
Speaker B:So that makes me sad that if people think, well, why should I do it?
Speaker B:It's like, why shouldn't you?
Speaker B:That's how you stay on top.
Speaker B:That's just how you stay on top.
Speaker B:And I mean, I think I didn't explain to you at the top of the conversation the reason why I moved into specifically helping people write books.
Speaker B:Because some people have asked me that and said, okay, but you didn't just used to write books.
Speaker B:You've written sales pages, email sequences, leaflets, brochures, all kinds of things.
Speaker B:Why have you now moved to specifically helping people write books?
Speaker B:Because there's the one piece of content that I've noticed with my previous clients.
Speaker B:It's the one piece of content that made the biggest difference to their business.
Speaker B:Because guess why very few people do it.
Speaker B:Think about all the entrepreneurs you know, well, driving instructors.
Speaker B:I bet every single driving instructor has a website.
Speaker B:Because if you don't have a website, people be like, are you a real driving instructor?
Speaker B: Come on, it's: Speaker B:I bet they all have social media profiles.
Speaker B:Maybe not on all of the profile, like all the platforms, at least a Facebook page of some sort of.
Speaker B:They probably have business cards.
Speaker B:It's all the sameness.
Speaker B:Everyone's doing exactly the same thing.
Speaker B:You have a driving instructor that actually writes a book that helps people.
Speaker B:Maybe a book about how to calm your nerves before you start learning, before you get into a car with an instructor.
Speaker B:That's just an idea off the top of my head, by the way.
Speaker B:The selfish bit of me wants a book, Driving with Dyspraxia.
Speaker B:That would be amazing if somebody wrote a book.
Speaker B:Hint there.
Speaker B:Anyone listening?
Speaker B:If you know how to deal with dyspraxia, please write a book that helps people who are dyspraxic like I am.
Speaker B:But it's not.
Speaker B:The thing with the book is, it's not even a lot of times.
Speaker B:Some people don't even read it.
Speaker B:It's just.
Speaker B:I've noticed that when you become a published author, being an author is just like a shorthand in everyone's mind.
Speaker B:It's a shorthand for this person knows more than the average, because everyone doesn't do it.
Speaker B:And this goes beyond driving instructors.
Speaker B:I'm talking about any kind of field.
Speaker B:If you think coaches, you think about consultants, you think about anything, really.
Speaker B:Nearly everyone has a website.
Speaker B:Everyone has social media, business cards, brochures, leaflets.
Speaker B:It's just like.
Speaker B:It's all just a sea of sales material that everyone feels they need to have now.
Speaker B:But then ask all of them, how many of you are published authors?
Speaker B:I'm not talking about those crappy 50 blog posts put together and uploaded up to Kindle.
Speaker B:That doesn't count.
Speaker B:I'm talking about proper books.
Speaker B:You know, like proper books.
Speaker B:You know, ask them.
Speaker B:And suddenly it's less than.
Speaker B:I was going to say 5%, but probably not even that.
Speaker B:I think it'd be 1% or less in any industry.
Speaker B:So as soon as you're a published author, people are, oh, whoa, okay.
Speaker B:They don't even have to read your book.
Speaker B:They already think you're better.
Speaker B:If you're a driving instructor, it'll be like, you have to be a better driving instructor than the other instructors.
Speaker B:You've written a book about it.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Do you mean.
Speaker B:And it also opens the doors for, you know, if you want to get speaking engagements, do podcasts like this, but guest on other people's podcasts.
Speaker B:It opens the doors to.
Speaker B:I mean, I'm not sure.
Speaker B:Would.
Speaker B:Would you.
Speaker B:Maybe you would have invited me to the podcast if I wasn't an author, but there's a chance you wouldn't have.
Speaker B:But because I was an author.
Speaker B:Chance.
Speaker B:There's a bit of your brain that just went, well, she's an author, she must be reasonably smart.
Speaker B:She's written a book.
Speaker B:Okay, let's have her on the podcast.
Speaker B:So it's a shorthand, and it really will kick off.
Speaker B:If you really thinking like an entrepreneur and you want to be seen as a leader in your industry, one of the shortest ways of doing that is becoming a published author.
Speaker A:Well, I mean, it was definitely an element of why I invited you on, because, yeah, it's one thing getting someone on to talk about writing a book, but getting someone to talk about writing a book that's written a book that's published that I believe is actually a bestseller.
Speaker B:It was in four countries.
Speaker B:I can't believe it.
Speaker B:I was aiming for UK and usa.
Speaker B:I don't know how I managed to get Canada and Australia.
Speaker B:I must have a few friends that just told everybody they know.
Speaker B:You know, I don't know that many people in those two countries, but yeah, yeah, it did.
Speaker B:It did better than I could have imagined.
Speaker A:Well, you convinced me because I'm working my way through it.
Speaker A:But.
Speaker A:And to be fair, you know, I'm not going to leave the review for now because I'm only about halfway through it, but I'm enjoying it so far, and it's definitely perked some interest from me going forward.
Speaker A:But it's called the Freedom Master Plan.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And basically, if I'm really dumbing it down, it's how to write a book.
Speaker A:Essentially, it's.
Speaker B:I would say it's less about how to write a book, it's more about what you can do with a book.
Speaker B:And that's why I called it the Freedom Master Plan is our mutual friend Dino, who actually came up with the word freedom.
Speaker B:And, you know, we were brainstorming the main issues that most small business owners, entrepreneurs, whatever you want to call them, have.
Speaker B:And the thing is, a lot of people set up their own business, whether that's, you know, it doesn't matter whether it's driving instruction or something else.
Speaker B:They set their own business to experience some kind of freedom.
Speaker B:So either they.
Speaker B:They've had terrible bosses in the past and they don't want to be answering to anybody anymore, or it could be the freedom to be able to take time off when you want to take time off without having to, you know, ask the boss or go on some silly roto.
Speaker B:We have to make sure other people haven't taken time off at the same time.
Speaker B:There's a whole myriad of reasons, but the word freedom kept coming up whenever I was speaking to entrepreneurs.
Speaker B:The reason they started their business was some Kind of freedom that they wanted to experience.
Speaker B:Ironically though, they don't experience freedom in their business.
Speaker B:They actually work harder in their business than they ever did for a boss, you know.
Speaker B:So the reason why I called it the Freedom Mastermind is to give you tried and tested tactics and strategies that you can use with a book.
Speaker B:So there is a bonus chapter where I do go into how to write these business books.
Speaker B:But the main crux of the book is I followed seven of my previous clients and I recorded every single thing they did with their book.
Speaker B:Because that's where the key is.
Speaker B:It's, there's, there's.
Speaker B:Some people unfortunately think they can just upload a book on Amazon and suddenly they turn to a millionaire.
Speaker B:And I don't have the heart to tell them that's not how the world works.
Speaker B:You'll be.
Speaker B:Most people don't even make the money back from, from book sales itself.
Speaker B:They don't make the money back that it costs them to publish the book in the first place.
Speaker B:You know, that's not where the money is.
Speaker B:It's the fact that you've now have this elevated authority.
Speaker B:I've already had five new students from my book.
Speaker B:So that's.
Speaker B:That equates to my, My maths is terrible.
Speaker B:I'm sorry.
Speaker B:Because that, this is why I'm a writer.
Speaker B:So that equates to about 36,000 pounds in revenue.
Speaker B:The book cost me a few thousand to publish, so it's already paid for, basically.
Speaker B:But regarding the sales, I don't even know.
Speaker B:I haven't even logged into my Amazon account to see how much money I've made.
Speaker B:I think I made a few hundred dollars.
Speaker B:I don't really care, Terry.
Speaker B:I'm not, I don't care.
Speaker B:That's not why I wrote the book.
Speaker B:To make sales is to leverage it and to get it out there.
Speaker B:But some people, I've kept getting the question, but what do you mean by leverage?
Speaker B:Like how you say leverage the book.
Speaker B:That sounds really nice, but how do you leverage the book?
Speaker B:And that's what the Freedom Master plans are.
Speaker B:It's nearly 30 different tips and strategies and tactics that my previous clients have used to leverage their books.
Speaker B:So they get high paying clients, so they even get paid for speaking gigs and they're able to build second and third passive incomes, you know, creating courses online that people pay a subscription for and they base it on the book.
Speaker B:There's so many different ideas.
Speaker B:That's what my book is all about.
Speaker B:Because what I want is anybody who is thinking of writing a book I want them to be armed with the best strategies of what they're going to do with the book once it's published.
Speaker B:Because I meet so many people who've written a book and then they've published it and now they're thinking, what am I meant to do with it?
Speaker B:I just think you're doing things the wrong way around.
Speaker B:You've written the book and now you're trying to see if you can make it work for your business.
Speaker B:Surely it's easier if you can see the end game first and hopefully the freedom master plan.
Speaker B:That's what it will do.
Speaker B:You can read the book, you can cherry pick the strategies that you think will fit your business and fit your personality.
Speaker B:And now you can start writing a book knowing what you're going to do with it once it arrives, as opposed to doing what a lot of people do is I write a book and then they're going, what do I do with it?
Speaker B:Yeah, and they're stuck.
Speaker A:You know, I mean, would you say some of the things you talk about in the book are transferable to other things and not specifically for books?
Speaker A:If someone had, I don't know, YouTube channel or blog or podcast or anything by reading the book, are they going to pick up tips on how they could promote or utilize that as well?
Speaker A:Or would it solely be for books?
Speaker B:What I would say is it is specifically for books.
Speaker B:But the one thing I've noticed about becoming a published author is it doesn't really matter what it is you're doing for lead generation and sales, it just ignites it.
Speaker B:Yeah, because I think behind, we spoke about this before, behind, it's a shorthand.
Speaker B:As soon as you say you're a published author, and like I said, a proper book, of course, then inseeds a shorthand for people going, oh, expert authority.
Speaker B:This person isn't just your average driving instructor, accountant, solicitor, financial planner, life coach, whatever.
Speaker B:They must be somebody who's a leader in their industry.
Speaker B:So that opens up.
Speaker B:It means you can charge higher for the same things.
Speaker B:You can actually charge more because people just go, well, yeah, of course you're going to charge more because you know, you're, you're somebody, you know, just an average.
Speaker B:So you, you can increase your fees without getting complaints.
Speaker B:You also start.
Speaker B:It attracts people.
Speaker B:And if you're podcasting, someone like you is podcasting.
Speaker B:It's fantastic because what you start doing is attracting an even higher caliber of guests.
Speaker B:And then you get asked to guest on other people's podcasts as well.
Speaker B:Definitely.
Speaker B:Since I've I've become a published author and I've only been a published author.
Speaker B:What?
Speaker B:Since it's.
Speaker B:Let me just think.
Speaker B:Six weeks ago.
Speaker B:It was six weeks.
Speaker B:Six weeks.
Speaker B:Let me just.
Speaker B:Sorry.
Speaker B:Let me just turn this off.
Speaker C:Annoying me.
Speaker B:Mom, I've gotta go.
Speaker B:I'm doing a podcast.
Speaker B:Okay, bye.
Speaker A:I'm gonna leave that in.
Speaker B:Oh, you can do.
Speaker B:You can do if you want.
Speaker B:It's just me sister.
Speaker B:And I was like, anybody else would be just like, no, but it's like, it's my sister stark on.
Speaker B:Just like, put the phone down.
Speaker B:She must.
Speaker B:I bet she's a Tesco's best.
Speaker B:I want to know if I want anything.
Speaker B:Sorry.
Speaker B:So where was I?
Speaker B:Where was I?
Speaker A:I don't know, I've lost track as well, but.
Speaker A:Oh, sorry, you were saying, like with a podcasting or anything about how you can use that to become a leader.
Speaker B:Yeah, well, since I've.
Speaker B:Honestly, since I become a Polish author, so that was six weeks ago.
Speaker B:It's just opened up doors.
Speaker B:But I've had so many.
Speaker B:There's people like you who I've kind of known from other people.
Speaker B:So we go in the same circles.
Speaker B:So chances are you, I hope you would have said yes to me anyway, even though I wasn't a published author.
Speaker B:But I've had several people who I've got no contact with.
Speaker B:It's not like we share mutual friends or anything like that.
Speaker B:But because I'm a published author, you know, I've just approached them, I've emailed them and said, hey, you know, I'd love to.
Speaker B:I've been listening to your show.
Speaker B:I think it's great.
Speaker B:I'd love to be a guest on your show.
Speaker B:I've recently become a published author.
Speaker B:Here's a link on Amazon.
Speaker B:It became a best seller in four different countries two days later.
Speaker B:Email.
Speaker B:Yep, sure.
Speaker B:Book yourself in.
Speaker B:Not a problem.
Speaker B:Would they be as open if it was just like, hey, it's just me, Talia, I want to just talk about writing books.
Speaker B:Probably be like, yeah, maybe next year.
Speaker B:Do you know what I mean?
Speaker B:It really does.
Speaker B:It's a short.
Speaker B:I'm telling you, books are a shorthand for authority.
Speaker B:People instigate.
Speaker B:Oh, wow.
Speaker B:You actually took the time and the effort to write a book about something.
Speaker B:Yeah, sure.
Speaker B:So can the book be used?
Speaker B:I think what your question was the actual marketing strategies in there.
Speaker B:Can they be.
Speaker B:No, they are very specifically book related things to do with the book.
Speaker B:So no from that point of view.
Speaker B:But I know, in fact one of my clients did do that.
Speaker B:She started a very successful podcast off the back of becoming a published author.
Speaker B:And she just had a ton of amazing guests who wanted to be on a show because she was a published author.
Speaker B:So it's just, it doesn't matter what you're doing.
Speaker B:You know, you could be doing podcasts, social media.
Speaker B:One of my clients is big on Google PPC ads.
Speaker B:And what she did when we wrote her book is before she used to run adverts that went, you know, anybody put in, she's an executive coach.
Speaker B:And she, you know, if you put an executive coach, the state that she, that she's in the usa.
Speaker B:So the state she's in, normally you get, you know what, 50 different of these cultures, you know, and they all sound the same.
Speaker B:All of them are obviously saying, we're flipping brilliant, because what else are they going to say?
Speaker B:And you're just sat there thinking, right, how do I even make a choice between, like.
Speaker B:So she, she was doing okay, but most of her business came from word of mouth, really, rather than the PPC adverts.
Speaker B:And then when we wrote her book, she decided to switch it from.
Speaker B:Instead of going to a website where she was saying how wonderful she was, she just put up a simple landing page advertising the book now instead.
Speaker B:And what was interesting was the book was all about how to pick your next coach.
Speaker B:So, I mean, I just want you to imagine, imagine going to Google.
Speaker B:In fact, let's actually switch this over.
Speaker B:Forget about coaches, let's do driving instructors.
Speaker B:So say if I put driving instructor Gateshead, because that's where I'm based.
Speaker B:Okay, So I put driving instructor Gates, and if I do that now into Google, I'm pretty sure I'll get a ton of driving instructors.
Speaker B:All the websites, very samey, all of them telling me that they're flipping brilliant and they can get me to drive, blah, blah, blah.
Speaker B:And then I just see one entry, but instead of that person saying, they're amazing, it's like, hey, I've got a free book.
Speaker B:Okay, you got to pay post and packaging.
Speaker B:That's how she made sure she negated the costs of printing and mailing the book out.
Speaker B:So she did.
Speaker B:Her landing page was basically saying, it's a free book, but you just need to pay post and packaging, and then it'll be mailed out to you.
Speaker B:Imagine if I saw a book and the book just says, you know how to calm your nerves before you.
Speaker B:Before you get into your first car for like, I don't know.
Speaker B:And I pay post and packaging.
Speaker B:4.99.
Speaker B:I'm going to click on that.
Speaker B:That's the one that's completely different to everything else that Google is serving me.
Speaker B:It's also making me think, oh, I'll read this first, then I can make a decision which instructor I want or, you know.
Speaker B:But the thing is, that person is the instructor.
Speaker B:So who am I going to go with?
Speaker B:Am I then going to go back to Google and start ringing other instructors and say, well, you know, I've got this book and this instructor is telling me it should be done this way.
Speaker B:Do you adhere to this?
Speaker B:You're not going to do that.
Speaker B:You're just going to go straight to that instructor.
Speaker B:You're just going to go, I like this person.
Speaker B:This book really resonated with me.
Speaker B:I might as well just go and get that person's services now.
Speaker B:Other than trying to find somebody else and making sure they do the same thing, you know, so that's what she does.
Speaker B:And she's.
Speaker B:She's got an amazing.
Speaker B:I think she told me last year her business hit seven figures.
Speaker A:I'm intrigued to check Amazon about three months after this podcast goes out and see how many books you have.
Speaker A:One thing I am interested in is, I know you spoke before about.
Speaker A:You've done a lot of copyright in.
Speaker A:You have the landing pages.
Speaker A:You've done ghostwriting.
Speaker A:Was this the first book you'd written for yourself and published as yourself?
Speaker B:The very, very first, yeah.
Speaker A:And did you feel nervous or like you were stepping out of your comfort zone doing that, or did it just feel natural?
Speaker B:No, no, I wish.
Speaker B:I wish it felt natural.
Speaker B:No.
Speaker B:A huge amount of imposter syndrome, which a lot of people find weird because they go, well, you've written seven of these before.
Speaker B:And I said, well, the writing bit wasn't the difficult bit.
Speaker B:Yeah, I've written seven before.
Speaker B:So I wrote the Freedom Master Plan in under six weeks.
Speaker B:So the writing bit wasn't.
Speaker B:It was.
Speaker B:It's just a different ball game.
Speaker B:As a ghostwriter, you write something and you hand it over to somebody else, and as soon as they're happy with it, they pay you.
Speaker B:I used to just disappear off to some tropical island for a few weeks, you know, to sip on some cocktails, and that was it.
Speaker B:You know, I mean, yes, I actually became.
Speaker B:I still am very good friends with most of my clients.
Speaker B:So, yeah, I stayed in touch with them, but I didn't really keep tabs on what they were doing.
Speaker B:You know, they would let me know when the book is published and it's become a bestseller, and they'd Send me a link and say, hey, thank you.
Speaker B:I had one lovely client who insisted on sending me flowers every single time I did something.
Speaker B:I mean, I thought it might be a bit weird, but then I met his wife and his wife was lovely and she was aware of it.
Speaker B:So I thought, okay, nothing weird's going on here.
Speaker B:I just have to be sure, you know.
Speaker B:But yeah, he insisted on sending me flowers every single time, you know, a book launched or a sales page launched and it did really well and he'd send me a bunch of flowers.
Speaker B:But that was it.
Speaker B:I didn't keep tabs on my clients.
Speaker B:I was on to the next bit of work that I need to do.
Speaker B:And now it's like there's a book out there with my name and face on it and it's like, oh my God.
Speaker B:So, yeah, there's huge amounts of imposter syndrome.
Speaker B:And believe it or not, I'm going through it again now, Terry.
Speaker B:So I've decided very recently that I would like to appeal more my services, my book, coaching and publishing services.
Speaker B:I'd like to appeal more to the vegan world.
Speaker B:But I'm going through it again because I'm now worried about will people see that I'm becoming elitist, that I don't want to work with people who are not vegan.
Speaker B:And that's not what I'm saying.
Speaker B:I will happily work with people who are not vegan.
Speaker B:I mean, okay, if you're a trophy hunter.
Speaker B:No, not working with you.
Speaker B:You know, if you're one of these evil people who actually set out to hurt animals, then no, I'm not going to work with you.
Speaker B:Of course I'm not.
Speaker B:But, you know, your average meat eater, of course I'm going to work with them.
Speaker B: had a plant based diet since: Speaker B:It's like part of my personal life and my business is over here.
Speaker B:And the two never would meet, I thought.
Speaker B:But now there's something in me that's saying I need to bring these two strands together.
Speaker B:It's what will make me happy.
Speaker B:So I want to start appealing more to vegan entrepreneurs and business leaders.
Speaker B:But then I'm worried that there may be a backlash because obviously involves putting the V sign on my website and being more vocal about the fact that I want to work with vegan business leaders.
Speaker B:And then, yeah, so I'm going through it all over again.
Speaker B:Going through it, it never leaves.
Speaker B:There's always another challenge.
Speaker B:And then I get imposter syndrome all over again.
Speaker A:As.
Speaker A:As a fellow vegan, I think that's a smashing idea, but I'm sure I.
Speaker B:Thought you would think it was a great idea.
Speaker B:I knew I was going to get no backlash from you whatsoever.
Speaker B:I was aware of that.
Speaker A:Just touching on that imposter syndrome then, because I know that some I've dealt with in the past, even just releasing this podcast.
Speaker A:Who am I to release his podcast?
Speaker A:Why should I be the one doing it?
Speaker A:How did you deal with that?
Speaker A:Did you have any specific methods or was it just plowing through?
Speaker B:Oh, wow.
Speaker B:I wish.
Speaker B:I wish there were specific methods.
Speaker B:It's one of those things that I've realized is it's like I remember someone telling me, you know, you get these people who just plan, and they're not planning for any real reason.
Speaker B:They're just planning to stop them from doing.
Speaker B:It's like the child who spends an hour creating a beautiful revision plan that's color coded and everything.
Speaker B:You're going, yeah, you could have done that in 10 minutes.
Speaker B:And you could have started revising now.
Speaker B:But you're just putting off the revising because you're finding revising boring.
Speaker B:You don't do that.
Speaker B:Well, we're all guilty of doing that.
Speaker B:We're all guilty of doing these little things so to make ourselves feel like we're actually getting closer to a goal, but we're not.
Speaker B:We're just actually putting off doing the work.
Speaker B:And I was told the best way to get over planning is just to start doing, you know, and it's the same thing with imposter syndrome.
Speaker B:I wish I can give you, like some sort of do this, and then they will completely magically go away.
Speaker B:I don't think it ever goes away.
Speaker B:I think all you can do to temper it is just keep doing it.
Speaker B:And I just told everybody that this book is coming out, it's launching on March 19, and I got to a stage where I couldn't back out of it.
Speaker B:Just told too many people.
Speaker B:So that's all it was.
Speaker B:It was like, on the one hand I had my imposter syndrome, and the other hand I had my pride because I told all these people and basically the imposter syndrome failed because I told so many people I was doing this, I could not do it now.
Speaker A:Well, you actually helped me overcome my imposter syndrome for the podcast thing, because I've been debating it for about 17 years, but now I've been Debating it for quite a while.
Speaker A:And I'll get closer and closer.
Speaker A:And I'd seen you would put up a Facebook post about how you want inspiring more podcasts.
Speaker A:And I'm not taking mycoinosis.
Speaker A:I'm sat there with my phone in front of me for about 15, 20 minutes staring at this post.
Speaker A:I can't typed it out.
Speaker A:And I waited another five minutes, and yeah, send.
Speaker A:And it's like, right, I've got to do it now.
Speaker A:That's it.
Speaker C:I have to do it.
Speaker B:That's the best way to do it.
Speaker B:And I think what you're doing is fantastic.
Speaker B:And I really do think podcasts are already.
Speaker B:Well, they have been for several years.
Speaker B:They've been getting more and more popular.
Speaker B:But I think the pandemic has really made a huge difference, because I'll be honest with you.
Speaker B:I have to be honest with you, Terry.
Speaker B:Up until about a month ago, I'd never listened to a podcast in my life, and I didn't get them.
Speaker B:I knew there was such a thing as podcasts have been around for a few years now, but I just didn't get it.
Speaker B:I just thought, why are we going backwards in time?
Speaker B:It's like there was the radio, then there was the tv, and why are we now going back to a medium where we just listen and we don't see things at the same time?
Speaker B:It didn't make sense to me.
Speaker B:And then it finally clicked a few weeks ago when I just realized we've got screen fatigue.
Speaker B:And especially in the pandemic, we're just sat in front of screens the whole time, and we're just tired.
Speaker B:Our eyes, they're just tired.
Speaker B:But at the same time, you don't just take time off completely.
Speaker B:Sometimes you feel like you still want to be learning and engaging, but you want to do it in a way where our eyes are not focused on something.
Speaker B:And I think that's why Clubhouse has become massive.
Speaker B:I think Clubhouse wouldn't have done so well if the pandemic hadn't turned up.
Speaker B:Yeah, I think the timing of Clubhouse was.
Speaker B:I don't think they meant it, because otherwise it would mean the clubhouse knew, that's all.
Speaker B:We're going into strange conspiracy theories now, aren't we?
Speaker B:Clubhouse created Covid.
Speaker B:You heard it here first, guys.
Speaker B:But, you know, unless you got on some strange conspiracy theory, then they wouldn't have known, you know, but they probably have to thank the pandemic for how huge they are because people are spending so much time on the screens, and then suddenly it's like, oh, I can learn and contribute and make friends and do all these things and do the gardening at the same time, or the ironing or walk the dog and not be in front of a screen.
Speaker B:Hell yes.
Speaker B:Let me sign up.
Speaker B:So I think you've picked a brilliant time to actually, you know, really go for it with podcasting, because I think people need it.
Speaker A:Yeah, I'd agree with that.
Speaker A:But on that note, we've gone from cockrings to clubhouse creating Covid.
Speaker A:So this seems an apple time for me to say to you, this is the last question I'm going to ask.
Speaker A:I'm going to put you on the spot a little bit now.
Speaker A:If, if you were to leave the driving industry today with one piece of advice and one tip, one, One takeaway, what, what would you leave it with today?
Speaker A:What piece of advice would you offer?
Speaker B:Well, definitely I was surprised when you said that.
Speaker B:The industry as a whole hasn't moved on so much from when I was 17, 18 years old, taking my test.
Speaker B:So I would say, you know, look towards the schools.
Speaker B:Look at how this, what the schools are doing.
Speaker B:It's just unacceptable nowadays to have a primary school or a secondary school teacher that doesn't understand things like dyslexia, dyspraxia, autism, Asperger's syndromes is just expected that you are.
Speaker B:You should know these things.
Speaker B:You should know how to spot these things and you should know, even if you can't give the support, you report it and able to find somebody who can support that child.
Speaker B:That needs to actually be expanded now to everywhere for adults, you know, So I would say be more innovative.
Speaker B:And then you never know, a nightmare like me might be able to drive.
Speaker A:I think that's a good piece of advice to end on.
Speaker A:Where can people find you?
Speaker A:Mitali, is there anything you'd like to promote?
Speaker A:Where can people find more about you?
Speaker B:Well, I would just say go to my website.
Speaker B:It's just quite simple.
Speaker B:It's just called the name of the book.
Speaker B:So it's the freedommasterplan.com.
Speaker B:so that's the freedommasterplan.Com if you go there, you can actually download a sample chapter to see if you like the book.
Speaker B:So a bit of a try before you buy.
Speaker B:And plus, The Kindle is 99 pence.
Speaker B:I mean, even if you're spending money, you're spending 99 pence.
Speaker B:All of 99 pence.
Speaker B:So, yeah, I would say whatever it is you do, I know you're mainly appealing to driving instructors, but even if you're not A driving instructor and you're some other kind of entrepreneur.
Speaker B:Have a read of the book, because I think it will just.
Speaker B:I'm not.
Speaker B:I'm not saying you have to even write a book, but I think we'll just spark up some ideas on what you can do just to position yourself more as an authority and more as a leader of your pack, as opposed to just part of the pack, which is what most people are.
Speaker A:Yeah, I think that's good that we.
Speaker A:Again, it's not specifically the book.
Speaker A:It's been initiative.
Speaker A:It's being creative.
Speaker A:And I think that's a good note to end on.
Speaker A:So I'll put those links in the show notes as well.
Speaker A:So if you're listening, get those over the show notes and we can direct you straight to Mitali there.
Speaker A:Thank you so much for joining us today.
Speaker A:It's been an absolute pleasure.
Speaker B:I was gonna say, I'm not sure if I'm allowed.
Speaker B:Terry, this is a bit turning the tables, but can I ask you a question?
Speaker A:No, I'm going.
Speaker A:Bye.
Speaker B:I'm gonna ask you anyway.
Speaker B:I want to ask you.
Speaker B:I found out that you were vegan because we spoke a couple of nights ago and I had a look at your website and you don't mention that you're vegan on your website.
Speaker B:Have you never thought about appealing to more customers who might actually choose you specifically because you're vegan?
Speaker B:Especially because I assume a big majority, I would say, of your clients would be young people who are learned and they're more likely to be vegan.
Speaker B:There's huge numbers of them that are turning to veganism now.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker B:Have you never thought of marketing yourself as a vegan driving instructor or.
Speaker A:I will be at some point, and there's a reason behind that.
Speaker B:In.
Speaker B:In.
Speaker A:As much as I consider myself vegan, I'm not quite where I want to be.
Speaker A:So, like, I'm vegan with the food.
Speaker A:I've stopped buying clothes made from wool and stuff like that, but I've still got my old clothes.
Speaker A:But the big one is the car.
Speaker C:It's.
Speaker A:It's not.
Speaker A:It's a manual car, so it's.
Speaker A:It's combustion engine.
Speaker A:You know, there's lever in there and it's like, right.
Speaker A:I. I want to.
Speaker A:I feel like I need to find something more appropriate.
Speaker A:So at some point they're not too.
Speaker A:Distant future, hopefully next year, maybe the year after, I'll be getting an electric car.
Speaker A:And I think as soon as I go to.
Speaker A:That my marketing changes, I feel I can justify.
Speaker B:I'm gonna follow you.
Speaker B:I'm gonna be.
Speaker B:Because I'm good.
Speaker B:It looks like I'm going to be going through a rebrand as well.
Speaker B:So I'll definitely be stalking you and seeing what you do and that's going to be very interesting.
Speaker A:You, you will see me talk about it more over the next year or two.
Speaker A:But it'll be sort of promoted if you like, when that car changes.
Speaker A:That's the key to that.
Speaker A:But that's a really good question.
Speaker A:And yes, she did put me on the spot.
Speaker A:And yes, we are going to follow about.
Speaker B:I just want to see because I just think, you know, you said it was a good idea for me to start appealing, you know, to, you know, appeal more to vegan entrepreneurs.
Speaker B:So I thought, well, it might be a good idea for you as well, especially like I said, because your demographic, although I'm sure you do have older, you know, clients as well who never learned how to drive.
Speaker B:And someone like me would come to you and say, hey, help me drive.
Speaker B:But I would assume a lot of them are young people.
Speaker B:And yeah, it's, I'm amazed with how many young people are vegan at the moment.
Speaker A:It's odd you say that actually because for me, and I've actually said this on a few other podcasts, it seems to surprise people.
Speaker A:Generally the people that come to me, 25 to 30 year old females, really.
Speaker A:Yep.
Speaker A:I think that's just the, the vibe I give off might be a good thing.
Speaker B:It might be a.
Speaker A:So, so yeah, it's definitely something I'm going to talk about more as we go along.
Speaker A:But I did put out a post on social media the other day.
Speaker A:I was thinking about all the reasons as to why people have chosen me in the past.
Speaker A:I have got a customer that comes to me because I was vegan.
Speaker A:I've got a customer that came to me because their cat was called Terry.
Speaker A:You know.
Speaker A:Okay, so there's a variety of reasons.
Speaker B:That is a variety of reasons.
Speaker B:Wow.
Speaker A:No, but again, thank you for joining us today.
Speaker A:It's been a pleasure, been fascinating.
Speaker A:I appreciate you sharing your time with us.
Speaker B:Thank you for having me.
Speaker B:I really enjoyed it.
Speaker A:Okay, take care.
Speaker A:So again, a big thank you to Metalli there for joining us.
Speaker A:And that was really interesting discussion for me and it went in some places I didn't necessarily expect it to go.
Speaker A:And I thought some of the thoughts Metalli was providing were really thought provoking, particularly the one about as instructors sort of relying on one income.
Speaker A:And that applies to anyone, I suppose, not just driving instructors.
Speaker A:But, but relying on one income source and then when that income source is stopped and halted, what do we do then?
Speaker A:And that's a position I was in and I'm still largely in now, so that's something we could definitely be thinking about.
Speaker A:As for her sort of specific point about more books within the industry, there's definitely a place for it.
Speaker A:I'm on with it now.
Speaker A:I've got a couple on the go.
Speaker A:I hope some of you guys are too.
Speaker A:There's no reason we can't be putting more information out there.
Speaker A:There's no reason why, as instructors, we can't be writing books for the public.
Speaker A:Will they all read them?
Speaker A:No, of course I will.
Speaker A:But if we were to make some, if we were to put more information out there, that could help change a few people's minds and that can have that cascading effect.
Speaker A:So, yeah, some really great stuff from Vitali there.
Speaker A:Make sure you go and follow her on social media and check out our website and check out a book.
Speaker A:It's a great book.
Speaker A:It's one I'm working my way through now, as I mentioned.
Speaker A:And now we're going to head over to Chris Benstead of the DITC, who's going to bring us up to date with the latest news from within our industry.
Speaker C:Hi, this is Chris Benstead from the driving instructor and trainers collective the ditc, bringing you industry updates.
Speaker C:On behalf of the instructor podcast, Terry has kindly asked us to try and keep you guys up to date with some interesting changes that happen during the week and things that you can go away, have a look at and maybe bring into your training or consider.
Speaker C: art of the Young Driver Focus: Speaker C:So they've postponed until next year and they're going to pick things up again then.
Speaker C:But this year they didn't want to leave us wanting to.
Speaker C:They have put together a report with some really interesting articles, so recommend you have a look.
Speaker C:I'm sure Terry will provide everybody with the link and it's.
Speaker C:It's out there to be consumed, but let's have a look through and see whether we can pick out a few bits that might be of interest.
Speaker C:And I know everyone is really busy, so having it in an audio format might be quite useful.
Speaker C:To you, unless you can find a little bit time in your day, which from all of my instructors and the other instructors that I speak to, there's not a lot of it at the moment.
Speaker C:People are keeping busy.
Speaker C: e which are looking at Driver: Speaker C: Driver: Speaker C:A lot of them are tech based, so logbooks, hazard perception training, classroom training, tracking of some kind, using telematics and mentor agreements.
Speaker C:So mentor agreements are something that we've looked at as a driving school, trying to involve parents in the process and trying to continue that process past the pass and getting parents and the new drivers to recognize the agreement between them.
Speaker C:What are the rules?
Speaker C:We know that everybody is safer if they know the rules.
Speaker C:So the same goes on after the test.
Speaker C:The same goes on in any relationship.
Speaker C:If you know what the rules are, you can better perform inside of those and you can avoid breaking them.
Speaker C:So mentoring agreements are a really good thing.
Speaker C:I know a lot of instructors work in that way at the beginning of the process, they outline what is necessary, what is expected, and then get the other party to agree with it.
Speaker C:A coaching contract, if you like, and this is an extension of that, but can be more practical of going, who's going to fill the car up?
Speaker C:Will you let, will you make a phone call if you're going to be late?
Speaker C:And what happens if you break down?
Speaker C:What's the process?
Speaker C:Have they got recovery cover or are they expected to find the parents?
Speaker C:Have they agreed that there will be a charger in the car so that they can phone?
Speaker C:Because I think sometimes solving a problem before it happens is the driving instructor mantra.
Speaker C:You know, look ahead and if in doubt, keep out.
Speaker C:So those kind of agreements I think are well worth looking at.
Speaker C:The other one that jumps out to me is classroom training.
Speaker C:I'm now doing exclusively theory training and I'm working with instructors from all over the country now who have pupils who need some support.
Speaker C:So some of those have additional needs.
Speaker C:I've got a number of pupils with dyslexia, dyspraxia, autism, adhd, memory issues as well, because that's one of, one of my pet things is finding ways to remember bits of information.
Speaker C:And I've got pupils that have, have no additional needs or no more than any of the others that we teach, but want to be taught some theory.
Speaker C:I'm a big believer that revision is what comes after learning.
Speaker C:So Moving towards a classroom approach, I think brings us in line with a lot of other places in the world.
Speaker C:France have enforced classroom training, Germany have enforced classroom training.
Speaker C:I was speaking to colleagues in Denmark a couple of weeks ago and in denmark they have 16 lots of 45 minutes practical.
Speaker C:Half of that is actually on a track and the track is half wet, half dry.
Speaker C:And then they have 16 lots of 45 minutes practical, they have 29 lots of 45 minutes classroom.
Speaker C:Looking at the psychology and rules of driving and looking at the theory side of things, and I don't know if anybody had the opportunity to view, to join in, but I know it's now available.
Speaker C:Goroadie hosted the Driving Associations of the Americas, having a conversation between Bridget from the association of America's and our very own Graham Hooper from TRI Coaching Partnership.
Speaker C:And they were chatting about everything from pricing through to training techniques and the process, the legal requirements, not just to become a new, to become a full license holder, but also to become an instructor.
Speaker C:So, you know, if you fancy a trip across the pond to go and set up a business, watch that first.
Speaker C:But yeah, really worth a watch.
Speaker C:Again, we'll make sure that the link is available to you.
Speaker C:If not, go to the GO Radio website and there's a link on there, I think it's called webinars would make sense.
Speaker C:So, yeah, have a look at that.
Speaker C:The other thing is, has a perception training, but there's another report inside of here which focuses on that a little bit more.
Speaker C:It's a report from a couple of doctors from a university that I have been speaking with.
Speaker C:And that is doctor, where are we?
Speaker C:There we go.
Speaker C:Dr. Vicki Kroll and Dr. David Crundle and I had the pleasure of having a long chat with them about the work that they've been doing and potential for change inside of the industry.
Speaker C:They are looking at using virtual reality to better assess and train new drivers in hazard prediction.
Speaker C:So the big difference, hazard perception to hazard prediction.
Speaker C:So hazard perception seeing the hazards that are there and hazard prediction, knowing what's likely to come next.
Speaker C:You know, spotting the hazards before they're not there, spotting the hazards that are not yet there, that would be better.
Speaker C:So really interesting being used in a lot of different ways.
Speaker C:VR itself coming in.
Speaker C:Our very own BSM has taken to using it for PDI training.
Speaker C:I haven't had any feedback on that yet, so if you've experienced it, please let me know, let me know your thoughts.
Speaker C:And there's a few other people.
Speaker C:I was speaking to a company who are in Europe who are setting, creating a system for teaching people to drive using virtual reality.
Speaker C:I'll pause for a second while that sinks in and people groan or growl or sound concerned.
Speaker C:So, yes, teaching people to drive using virtual reality, which to start with, I was thinking it's not going to happen by the end of the conversation.
Speaker C:Really interesting stuff.
Speaker C:I think there is a danger that it could affect us.
Speaker C:There's always going to be a place for practical until cars are automated, fully automated.
Speaker C:But the, you know, the use of the VR allows practice and it will be.
Speaker C:I know we always say it's not a game, it is.
Speaker C:There's a wheel, there's pedals, there's gear shift.
Speaker C:You know, it will be a setup that allows all of that.
Speaker C:And potentially as an instructor, you can drop into the seat next to them and give them a lesson.
Speaker C:So you could be sat at home and in your PJs, they could be sat at home in theirs.
Speaker C:And then headset goes on, you appear in the car, possibly with a novelty skin.
Speaker C:And teaching via virtual reality.
Speaker C:I don't think we're a million miles away from it.
Speaker C:I think there is a future of these things coming into play.
Speaker C:I, I don't think it's necessarily going to be mainstream, but I think there's going to be some benefits.
Speaker C:Now, one of the biggest benefits is the opportunity to train situations that you won't come across, don't come across or are potentially dangerous, and allowing them to have a go and then replay it and try it again.
Speaker C:And isn't that kind of what experience based training is all about?
Speaker C:That we know that about 100 hours of experience is what's needed to create a safe driver.
Speaker C:All the studies seem to point to around that 100 hour figure.
Speaker C:Doesn't matter which country you look at.
Speaker C:And that hundred hour figure is about getting experience.
Speaker C:It's the older you get and separately, the more experience you get.
Speaker C:So by allowing them to get that experience, by allowing them to go through different scenarios and situations that might not be local to them or familiar to them, that's gonna establish some real changes.
Speaker C:So there is a chance of some developments coming through in the future, people taking this seriously, maybe the theory test will become partly virtual reality.
Speaker C:I would like to see it asking questions that are relevant in the situation.
Speaker C:So this would be a good way for that to happen.
Speaker C:I'm finding a lot of pupils struggle to convert that written question into something that they can visualise that they can understand.
Speaker C:The one that keeps coming up this week, turning right across the dual carriageway about whether or not if the central reservation isn't wide enough for your vehicle.
Speaker C:And local to me at least there aren't any dual carriageways like that.
Speaker C:People think of a dual carriageway as almost motorway, like, you know, long stretch, a bypass, so long stretch with it with a barrier in the middle and there's no gaps in that barrier.
Speaker C:So when you then start talking about turning right across it, they struggle to visualize that.
Speaker C:So this would be an opportunity to kind of go, okay, this is the kind of situation, how would you work this out?
Speaker C:What would you be looking for inside of that?
Speaker C:So really interesting.
Speaker C:And I know that FirstCar and Leicestershire Fire and Rescue Service have a half a million pound product which is ice.
Speaker C:It's the ICE hub.
Speaker C:And ICE is immersive community education.
Speaker C:And then looking at building up a library, a catalogue of useful resources that you will be able to get access to and that will use 360 degree filming technology to give you different ways to look at things.
Speaker C:They're looking at cyclists already.
Speaker C:I know the same has been done by the British Horse foundation on horses and their safety on the road.
Speaker C:So, you know, it is there, it's coming through.
Speaker C:How well it gets taken up, maybe that's down to us.
Speaker C:Maybe we need to think outside of the car a little bit more, especially with what we've seen from COVID Risk that virtual reality could have been a really useful thing if it was about at the beginning of the pandemic.
Speaker C:So they're the things that have jumped out on me.
Speaker C:They're the ones that appeared of particular interest.
Speaker C:I know there's a lot more in there.
Speaker C:I've just got to find more time to sit down and work my way through.
Speaker C:I recommend you have a look, if you can, and try and try and find something.
Speaker C:I'd love to hear from you, for you to point out what was of interest, whether there's anything that I've missed that would be worth having a look at.
Speaker C: get to the Young Driver Focus: Speaker C:Hopefully everything will be some kind of normal, whatever that's going to be and maybe see you guys there.
Speaker C:It would be great to have more and more instructors going along to events like this that do directly affect what we do, but don't necessarily engage with us.
Speaker C:So maybe this is an opportunity for us to do so.
Speaker C:So thank you very much and I look forward to speaking to you next week.
Speaker C:The links will be in the notes.
Speaker C:That's the link to the GO Roadie webinar with the Driving School Associations of the Americas and Graham Hooper and to this first Cars report on Young driver Focus Stay Safe out there.
Speaker A:So thanks there for Chris for bringing us up to date with the latest news of Indian industry.
Speaker A:As you mentioned, I'll be putting the links for those posts in the show notes so you can go straight over and get direct access to them.
Speaker A:I'll also be putting links for the DITC where you can go and go and check that out as well.
Speaker A:And I strongly advise you have a look and I strongly advise you sign up.
Speaker A:It's a great idea and they've got some great benefits as well.
Speaker A:And Chris will be back next week or at least someone from the DITC will be back next week to bring us another update.
Speaker A:So thank you for listening today.
Speaker A:If you enjoyed this podcast, make sure you click subscribe wherever you're listening so that the next one will drop straight into your podcast feed.
Speaker A:If you want to get in touch with with the show, head over@tcdrive.co.uk you can get in touch with me by any method over there.
Speaker A:And remember, let's just keep raising standards and stay safe.
