Unleashing Your Inner Geek: Self-Care for Instructors!

Robin Bates: 00:00:00

Foreign.

Terry Cook: 00:00:10

Welcome and thank you for joining us on the instructor podcast where every week we're joined by experts and innovators, leaders and game changers so we can hold a mirror up at the instructor industry and see where we can improve and raise our standards. So if you're ready, we'll make a start. So thank you for joining us today on the instructor podcast. It's great to have you along.

I'm Terry Cook of TC Drive and today we're going to be talking to Robin Bates. Now, Robin Bates runs Coaching for Geeks and he's done all sorts of things throughout his life. You can always find him at Comic Cons across the uk.

He specializes in helping businesses and people grow their audience.

What he's actually come to talk to us about today is self care and how as instructors we could be doing more to look after ourselves and love ourselves a little bit more. So make sure if you're enjoying these podcasts, you hit subscribe or follow every listeners they drop into your feed every single Sunday.

And as a special treat for the rest of this series, we'll be joined by someone from the DITC today, it'll be Chris Benstead and they'll be just giving us the latest news and the updates from within the industry. So, so make sure you stay to the end of the podcast to catch the latest updates from the ditc.

So just to stop me waffling anymore, let's make a start. So today we are joined by the tremendous and the terrific Robin Bates. How are you today, Robin?

Robin Bates: 00:01:47

Hi, Terry. I'm very well, thank you.

Terry Cook: 00:01:49

Notice I got in a terrific there that did. So thank you for joining us today.

And we're going to start off with the thing I ask everyone and that's if you can tell me little bit of your background and what you've done with your life and where you are now and what you're up to now.

Robin Bates: 00:02:04

Oh, Lord, that's a long story. But what have I done with my life?

I wasted half of it and then decided I needed to do something with it and ended up starting a business called Coaching for Geeks, which is life, love, business, confidence, whatever, all the things that I needed 10, 20 years ago.

Essentially, instead of bimbling through life with no plan, I help people to have a plan now and also carry out that plan and get fabulous results like getting a podcast up the chain.

Terry Cook: 00:02:48

I wonder who that could be.

Robin Bates: 00:02:51

And my focus recently has changed a little bit.

I started out as a confidence coach, still do that work, but I've shifted the focus of the business towards helping geeky content creators and entrepreneurs to grow their audience. Because I realized that that's something that a lot of people struggle with, especially people on Twitch podcast hosts.

There's so many podcasts out there now, there's just so many of them. How do you stand out? And that's what I'm helping people with.

Helping people with the focus, helping people to network and help people to grow physically, mentally, emotionally and make more money so they can have more fun.

Terry Cook: 00:03:36

So when you say that you wasted the first half of your life, that's sort of what where you're helping people now. The people that have almost feel like they've wasted a chunk of life, you're helping them now step on and kick on.

Robin Bates: 00:03:49

Yeah, not necessarily people who wasted, but people who were maybe a little bit stuck, a little bit lost would like a little bit of support. Because I grew up with Spectrum 48K, Amiga, a 500 plus Super Nintendo were my best friends. Three do, someone had to have one and that was me.

And rather than developing solid social skills and confidence and self belief, I got high and drunk. Instead I look for a different way to access those states, those ways of being.

And it turns out that booze and cocaine, expensive and fleeting ways to access confidence and self belief because once that's out your system, it's gone. Spent my student loan on bag of weed and a Sega Dreamcast, dropped out of university, so ended up working Asda as a Christmas temp.

Nothing wrong with working retail at all.

I'm not having a go at you if you do, but you know, working as a temp in retail is, is not a career plan and it's not going to give me the cash to live the life to which I have now become accustomed. So yeah, I bimbled away through life not having a plan, not developing my knowledge, skills and experience in any meaningful way.

I've worked in bars and I've worked at paintball sites and I've done things at events and festivals and all stuff which has shaped me into being who I am now. But none of it was really planned and it wasn't. It was through a series of happy accidents that I ended up moving to London.

And that was sort of the making of me because I had to grow up fast, that I was on my own in the capital, in a job that I didn't really know how to do, which happened over the course of a few jobs. And eventually I took what I thought was the most logical next step into quite a senior managerial position. And I was so out of my depth.

I again, because I've not developed the knowledge, skills and experience to be in that position. It was just that I'd somehow become a bit of a charmer at interviews.

Who knows how to put a really solid CV together and I could have done the job if I'd have applied myself.

But instead I wallowed in misery, went to Greg's twice a day, drunk my feelings and one day I found myself crying on the Northern Line wondering where it all gone wrong.

I declared that that was it, I was leaving London forever and I would go and move to Devon and walk on the moors with the dog in the drizzle and stare at the crushing.

Very, very sort of Jane Austen, Poldarky, very melancholy and Grey mist and drizzle and crashing waves, beard stroking, contemplative at times and tell friends, why don't you do something with that coaching that you've been doing with your teams and us and all of those skills that you learned? Because one of my jobs, they couldn't afford to pay me more, they sent me on lots of training.

It turns out that I got really flipping good at coaching and mentoring. So all right then. And for the first time I took charge of myself.

I went and did some training, studied coaching, studied mentoring, did some neuro, linguistic programming, integral eye movement therapy, cognitive behavior therapy and out the other end popped originally Robin Bates. Life coaching. Who cares? Coaching for geeks. We can talk about niching if you want, but I know I'm not here to talk about audience growth today.

That's for another time. You've got another professional for that?

Terry Cook: 00:07:55

I've got several. The two key things for me, from what you said there, actually the two most important things.

Firstly, I think if you ever write an autobiography, it should be entitled Crying on the Northern Line.

Robin Bates: 00:08:10

I don't think that would stand out enough. I think plenty of people have cried.

Terry Cook: 00:08:16

I've not heard it described in such an eloquent manner before. I think that's quite, quite awesome. And the second significant thing there is on the big question, do you still own the Sega Dreamcast?

Robin Bates: 00:08:29

Yeah, I do. I've got Samba d'amigo original samba to mego box with the plastic maracas so you can samba the amigo.

I've got the fishing rods so you can play Sega Bass fishing with the fishing rod. I've got big box of games. Yeah, still got the Dreamcast.

Terry Cook: 00:08:51

I am just going to ask you just a little bit about culture for geeks, actually, because just while you were talking then the big Thing because I'm obviously a member of Culture for Geeks. You know, I'm trying to be an active member and it's one of those few communities that I believe is actually a community.

I really do feel that that's what it is.

So I was wondering if you could top A, tell us a little bit more about Culture for Geeks, but then B, I mean a lot of groups and so called communities for driving instructors as well. And I think that a lot of that is very divided and this is what we're going to come on to in a minute.

So I wondered if there's anything that, you know, you could tell us a little bit about how you form that community and potentially even stop it becoming fragmented or whether that was actually done or just happened that way.

Robin Bates: 00:09:38

I don't know exactly how it happened. I did a course and part of it was a weekend course. We were told this is the big thing. Facebook groups are the big thing.

We're all going to put our Facebook groups together now and we're all going to reach out to 10 people who we want to be in our communities. And I thought it was all a little bit, a little bit wanky. It wasn't really what I was there for, but I did it anyway. Sorry I've paid to be here.

I might as well get what I can from it, which is a great way to do any training. If you find yourself in a rubbish training, just look for what you can get from it.

So it did and it kind of lay unused for a year until I should really do something with this. I still didn't really know what the difference was between groups and pages and Facebook being Facebook.

We had the website that was growing steadily, had a podcast that was growing pretty well, and then started inviting people. And for the longest time it was just me almost shouting into the void.

But did it every day, put a post every day, put a question up every day, put something for people to read or do or get involved with every day. It wasn't really until, until I got fairly big on Twitter that the group grew.

And I think it was my pinned post at the time that cultivated the right sort of people, which I can't even remember what it was now, but it was a bit of a something about being weird, being unusual, being different, not fitting in. But that doesn't matter when you're a geek because you've already got a community of people who. Where you belong. So I, I can't remember.

It's the kind of thing that Simon Pegg would Say, or that one that was. Oh, this is terrible. Saturday night, my mind's gone blank. Captain Jack, what's his name? Something.

Terry Cook: 00:11:55

Johnny Depp.

Robin Bates: 00:11:57

No, Captain, it's not. What's his name? Jack Harkness from Doctor who.

Terry Cook: 00:12:03

I'm not a Doctor who fan.

Robin Bates: 00:12:06

Yeah, it's something that he would say anyway, something like that. And that just seemed to attract people and this was back in the days of automatic messages on Twitter and growth hacking and all sorts.

And I did a lot of appearances at Comic Cons and other events and that's how I've got people in. And I quickly established a really solid set of, set of rules of expectations and team of moderators who I felt were the right sort of people.

Not only to help me look after the group and make sure the community was a safe place to be and welcoming place to be, but also to keep me on the right track because I don't have everybody else's experiences.

So we've got a lot of people, a lot of neurodiverse people on my moderator panel team, people who are non binary and they keep me because you know, I'm gonna, I have ADHD and I go up on flights of fancy. I'm going to do this, going to do that and like hang on, hang on, Robin, what the hell are you doing?

So by being constantly active, by being supportive, by posting things, a mix of things that are funny, that are useful, that are thought provoking, that are interesting, that are supportive, we've cultivated a really solid community there that do look out for each other and support each other and answer each other's questions and tell me off, I'm out if I put a foot wrong as well. You're talking bollocks, Robin. Shut up. It's not very often, but I have been not silenced, but put in my place on more than one occasion.

And we welcome that because it's all it is, a community. It's not the Robin show, it's is coaching for geeks, the community.

We have the website, we have the CFG Turbo which is the subscription membership type offering. We have the one to one coaching with me. But that community, it's not me, it's almost out of my hands.

I'm just there to steer it and people can do what they want.

Terry Cook: 00:14:28

I mean there's some things that I think definitely want to come back and touch on there specifically around the idea of being consistent and sort of the self development aspect. But before we do that, let's reverse back a little bit. Tell me a little bit about your experience with learning to drive.

Robin Bates: 00:14:50

I started learning to drive later than I should have because I was skinned as a teenager. I couldn't afford to. So it would have been in my mid-20s at about 25, and I was terrified.

I made maybe a slight error of judgment in my driving instructor, who was a slightly older gentleman, and we. I hated it. I hated every minute of it. It was one of the worst experiences of my life, learning to drive. He made me sound terrible.

He made me do things I wasn't ready for, but I wasn't. I did not feel in control, safe, or capable or competent at any point behind that wheel.

When he made me go out on the roads and drive home from the other side of town on, like, my third lesson, that was not safe for me. That was not safe for him. That was not safe for any of the other road shooters around me.

I had not got to grips with finding the biting point just to set off safely and carefully every time I stalled at the traffic lights whilst he shouted, what are you doing? What are you doing? What are you doing? At me? And turn to go, clearly, I don't fucking know what I'm doing. You're the instructor. Instruct me.

Well, the lights went red, green, red, green, red with him just barking at me. So it was not constructive or useful experience. Partway through the company I was working for got acquired by a London company.

I moved down and I never had to continue it because the, you know, the underground and buses are so good down there. It's still a skill I feel would be useful.

But now, because of my health, I have type 1 diabetes, which is okay, control, but not well enough control to for want me to feel safe, that I would be in control of it at all times, and to. Legally, I'm not allowed to anyway, so that's been taken out of my hands.

I could get down the road if, you know, if someone had fallen unwell and needed to get them somewhere and we were in the middle of the desert or something, I could probably safely get us out of there. But driving around town, how do you judge distances? Like, my brain just can't fathom it. How do you tell how far you are?

Why does everything feel faster now? Why? What's going on? There's so many things. There's so many things happening in every direction. Is he gonna cross the road? That's a cat. Oh, no.

No road, folks. Terrifying. Awful. I hate it. I both envy and fear anyone who could drive. It's so. Put me behind the Ridge Racer, Sega Alley Yeah, but for real, no, I.

I cannot control this machine of death.

Terry Cook: 00:18:38

Thank you for joining us on the instructor podcast. This. Do you know what? There's some fascinating stuff you said there actually, just before I move on to that.

How was that or has that at all shaped your opinion of the, the driving instructor industry? You know, has that changed? Is that your overriding feeling of it or have you just not got an opinion?

Robin Bates: 00:19:03

If I hadn't met you, I would have assumed that that's what driving instructors were as a type.

There were some old back in, when I was a lad, Fist of Fun, it's a comedy show where they mocked driving instructors rolling around on the beds of money, laughing at their students going, you can't even drive. That's probably not what I really expected.

I should have met more driving instructors rather than taking a recommendation from somebody that works for them. I'm not them.

And if I were to pick anybody to do anything now, I would meet them, shop around and find out if, if we were a good fit, sort of values and personality wise and not pick the cheap old man. That's my first option. But I think as a whole, I mean, you've got to be skilled, right?

You've got to be able to work with people of all kinds and remain calm because that's somebody new to such a complex task under your watch. So I have a lot of respect for people who are able to teach something like that because there's so many things could go wrong.

Terry Cook: 00:20:33

Yeah, I think one thing I'm learning as I do more of these podcasts is I'm very introverted and I'm very much just thinking our industry is different to every other industry. But the more I talk to people, the more I'm realizing every industry is very, very similar. You know, there's good and bad in every industry.

But you know, I'm obviously specifically talking about the instructor instructors now and I think that there's three types with what regards what we're talking about. You've got the type here, which is the phenomenal instructors leading by example.

They're using client based learning, they're adapting new techniques around coaching and social media and thinking outside the box. You've got category C, which is, yeah, your instructor that you had.

The one that's got the old style mindset, that's unwilling to change, it refuses to change. And stubborn and shall we and impatient and makes people drive home on their first lesson, like mine. They did. After I specifically asked him not to.

Because even though they physically can't Force you. They are in that position of power, you know, because you don't know what you're doing in a sense.

And I think this podcast is aimed at the middle group, the ones that want to change but maybe don't know how, or the ones that want to develop or don't even know they need to change or develop. And that's what this podcast is for. So I just felt like when you were talking then about that there is still that within our industry and that's.

And I want the middle group to push up and so we can outnumber that within the industry. But.

And that kind of brings in a little bit to what the big thing I've got you to talk on, on today, which was sort of self care and self love and mental health that, that, that side of it, because, you know, we're, as I'm talking to you now, we're just coming out of lockdown as instructors.

This is our first week back and I know that everyone's been hit by lockdowns and Covid, but I do feel like as a profession we've been hit pretty hard. You know, we've not been a lot of work. We're all self employed. Not everyone's been working three years.

So the grants they get from the government aren't great. The grants that the council have been given out have been sporadic because not every council has given them.

Some have, some haven't, you know, so I do think we've been quite. I think it's a really key topic at the minute, self care, because there have been suicides again everywhere.

But within the industry that people have changed jobs, there are people that have gone bankrupt. So that's kind of what I brought you on to talk about today again, because that's something you've helped me with a lot.

And I think the first thing I want to touch on again, you've helped me with this is failure and the fear of failure. And this is quite a long winded question, so I apologize. But it's. I think there's two things going on with instructors.

Because we have to take tests to be an instructor and we have to take tests to stay as an instructor. And if we fail those tests, we've lost his career. So, you know, there's a big fear of failure there.

But then on the flip side, we're taking students who have that same fear of failure, so we're dealing with them. So if I was to ask you for some suggestions on dealing with failure and reframing that, you know, how Would you respond to that?

Robin Bates: 00:23:51

Yeah. Failure is one of those interesting things that we're so.

It's so drummed into us as a kid that failure is bad and needs to be avoided at all costs throughout school. Don't fail your exams. Don't, don't fail, don't fail, don't fail. You've got to succeed. You've got to succeed. You've got to succeed.

What happens if you do fail? It's the best way of learning. If we use video games as an analogy here. If, if you die in a video game, you learn how not to die.

At that point in the video game, you have to try something different, you have to try something new. So if you've ever played Super Mario Brothers, that first goomba, that little brown owl mushroom looking thing, if you run into it, Mario will die.

So you learn that you have to jump over it, but there's also a conveniently placed block for you to bounce your head off. And you also learn that if you accidentally had booked that, you'll land on that goomba and you can squash it.

If you mistime it, you'll land it at a funny angle and it'll kill you. So you. There's lots of ways to learn right away what to do and what not to do. It's the same with life and failure.

If you fail an exam, well, that probably means that you weren't ready to pass that exam or you were having a bad day, or you haven't done your preparation or you've forgotten something important. That would be the same for people taking their, their driving test, the driving exam, or their theory test.

If you don't pass your theory test, that's because you've not been able to remember and recall these really important facts that you really need to know about driving in order to be a safe driver. That's ultimately what it's about.

This is what I've learned from you a lot, Terry, that it's not just about passing your test, it's about becoming a safe driver. My sister, it took her three goes to pass her driving test and that made her a really safe driver.

She will freely admit that she wasn't ready, she wasn't ready to pass, and she needed more lessons, more time on the road, more time with an instructor to guide her teacher, coach her to get her to that point. So if you fail your test, it doesn't mean that you're never going to be successful and you can have a bad day. Something could be off.

Maybe you learned that. Actually I need to have a better bedtime routine so that I get a good night's sleep beforehand so I'm not on edge.

Maybe I shouldn't have four cans of monster because that makes me jittery and I forget to look in the mirror. There's lots of learning to get from failure. Go out and fail at something tomorrow if you're listening to this. Not if you're a brain surgeon.

Something really don't fail at crossing the road. But. But playing games is a great way to get good at failing and people don't realize that until you point it out to them.

That right, you keep doing this level until you get it. You keep doing this stealth section until you don't get seen immediately in the game ends immediately. Curse you, stealth section.

We weren't expecting you. In this action game for instructors who have to keep up to date.

I also work in engineering by day and I make engineers and people who investigate cranes. I make sure that they are competent to do their job and if they're not, then cranes fall down and people die. It's simple as that.

We had a presentation from a guy who came and had a pop up banner which had the names of everyone who died in a crane accident. Oh my God. It was these really bleak pictures of cranes lying in the road, crushed houses and the like. Getting off topic.

If you are not competent to do your job and people's lives are in your hands, you should not be doing that job. You need to maintain your competence, your knowledge, your skills and experience and be updating it all the time.

And that's what I love about you, Terry, and what you're doing with this podcast is that it's giving people that opportunity to get some extra professional development and listen to some different ideas and suggestions and ways forward. So what happens if you fail your exam as a, as an instructor? Is that it? Career over.

Terry Cook: 00:28:48

You get free attempts. Once you've took. Once you've had three. I mean, there's always ways to appeal, you know, legalities you can appeal on and stuff.

But in theory, once you've failed the third, you're taken off the instructor register. You can I forget what this. I think it's two years. I could have that wrong. But I think you can reapply within two years and retrain.

So it's not the end of the road forever. But yeah, basically that aspect of your career is taken away from you.

Robin Bates: 00:29:17

So get good scrub. Don't be the person that's not good enough to pass that test, that exam.

It's something that you should be working on all the time and topping up your knowledge, making sure you're on top of things and not picking up bad habits. Because we all do it, you know, as soon as you've learned how to do something, you find shortcuts, workarounds. That's just human nature.

But when you are teaching other people, it's, it's got to be right. So get it right. Make sure you're right. Practice, learn, update. And if you're not in a position where you are capable, passing, figure out why.

What's going on behind the scenes, what's going on up here in the old, in the old noggin that's stopping you from, from reaching those levels. Because there might be something else going on that leads to self sabotage.

But if you're not happy with what's going on with your career, your brain will come up with a way to sabotage it. And we don't want it to be at the expense of your career. However, anybody who's got the most. You've got to become flexible. Like you've had to bend.

That sounds terrible. You've got to bend with the wind, like all instructors have because of, because of lots down.

And you spent time working on the theory course and a podcast, you've come up with new ways to bring in income, grow your expertise, your authority so that people come to you. And that's what anyone in anyone, any line of work should be doing.

There's something about, is it cyber dynamics, the first law of cyber Dynamics, that the system with the most flexibility will rule that system. It's the same for people.

The more flexible you can be, the more you'll be able to adapt to any situation and failure will just be a waypoint on your map. I'm trying to think of a clever driving geek. It'd just be an exit on your roundabout.

Terry Cook: 00:31:48

There you go. But I do think again, you make some, some, some good points there. I think that failure is kind of a, It's a stigma. There's a.

We don't, we look upon it negatively. Now, admittedly, no one wants to fail. Of course no one wants to fail, but it's not always a bad thing.

And I think that you said there as well about the preparing for it.

So if, for example, myself, if I've got my assessment coming up, my standards check coming up, I mean, I should be preparing anyway, you know, there should be a constant development from myself in reality.

But even when there's a standard check coming up, maybe step it up again and the More I do that, the more prepared I'm going to be, which means, which is going to reduce the fear of failure because I'm going to be more prepared. And then going beyond that, I get free opportunities. So if I fail first time, I'll know then what I've got to work on. So again, it's an opportunity.

And I think again, you made a really valid point saying that you have to be good enough.

And in this profession, if you're not good enough to teach someone to drive safely, you shouldn't be doing it because you're putting people on the road. So, so yeah, I thought some, some interesting, interesting thoughts there.

Robin Bates: 00:32:58

It's that don't let that first instance of failure cloud you, like poison your brain. Say that you're not good enough, you can't do it. It's, it's just telling you that you couldn't do it that time, that's all.

It's not that you can't do it forever. It's. It's showing you where you need to go and do some work, some learning and top up and then get cracking.

Terry Cook: 00:33:24

I think personally, my first attempt, I don't think, well, I wasn't too nervous and thankful I did pass that one, but I think the second one will be okay. I think if I get to the third one, entire career's riding on it. Yeah, I think that's squeaky bum time.

But yeah, speaking of the stress and fear around the profession, I think one of the things that we're going through now, and I really think this does sort of delve into the self care aspect, is as an industry, there's a massive demand on us at the minute. It's a huge backlog in tests, there's a huge wait. You know, we're all feeling it, we're all getting inquiries almost every day for lessons and stuff.

And especially with us largely being, you know, no finances for the past year almost. There's that pressure to work all the hours, you know, God sends.

And you mentioned before about, you know, cracking up on four cans of Red Bull to keep you going. And I think that there's going to be a lot of people that are doing that. I think, right, I'm going to work from 8am until 9pm Seven days a week.

That's probably not the best way to look after yourself.

Robin Bates: 00:34:35

Probably not. I can totally understand it, where that would come from. We all do it sometimes. Sometimes you're gonna push yourself harder than other times.

But you've gotta, you've gotta take good care of yourself. Otherwise your body will fall apart, your mind will fall apart and you'll just not be able to do it at all.

Regular breaks, you've got to be able to get up and walk around, get somewhere, take care of your peeps and poops, have some, have some water, have some food, like some good food. Not going through the drive through for a free meal. Not just grabbing somewhat from, from the shelf, smashing a, smashing a pasty down. Yeah, it's.

Humans are very prone to burnout and you need to be mindful of that as the world reopens, as you get back out there. And if you are not, not performing at your best, then you're not going to be doing a good job. You're not going to be happy with your own performance.

And your students, your clients aren't going to be happy. Are you doing them a good job? Are you, are they getting their money's worth? Are they learning to drive well and safely?

And if not, you might need to postpone a lesson or two. Just have a little break, take a day off.

I know if I push myself too hard, if I'm developing a new product and I've stayed up late, then I've got a client. If I'm not in the right headspace for them, they're not going to get their money's worth from me.

And I've postponed clients before just because I am not going to be a good coach for you today. I'm sorry. And it sucks because that's, that's money in the bank that you're missing out on at the time.

But if you have got a relationship with your clients, they're not going to go anywhere, right? They're going to come back to you. If they have a shit lesson, then they might go somewhere else.

Terry Cook: 00:36:46

I think that's again quite interesting what you said about having a relationship with a student. Because that's something that I found and I'm always reluctant to use myself as a positive example. I try to use myself as a negative example.

But you know, if you can form that almost like a bond and a good relationship with a student and then you message them on, even if it's the day of the lesson and say, look, I'm screwed today, I'm knackered, I need to, I can't do this. They're generally pretty understanding.

But I do think that, you know, maybe it's more than, you know, people that have just qualified and are quite new or, you know, setting their ways or just people are nervous that they're Reluctant to cancel a lesson or reschedule a lesson. And I do think that's quite key. There's nothing wrong with it as long as you're not taking Mick, you know, you've got to look after yourself.

Like I do evening lessons, two or three evening lessons a week.

And I tell everyone with an evening lesson, these are the ones I'm most likely to cancel because if I'm knackered at 5 o'clock, you don't want me at 7 o'clock and they all understand that and it would be forehand. So I, I do think that's, that's quite a key point. So in fact, how would you frame that?

You know, if someone is worried and scared about contacting someone and saying, look, I'm not able to do this lesson, how would you, what would you say to that person?

Robin Bates: 00:38:11

I would say to it, it's about respect for your, for your students more than anything else. If you respect them, you'll just be honest and open with them.

If you're not going to do that, you're going to burn yourself out and your body is going to force you to take much more time off than if you were to postpone a lesson or a day's worth of lessons. The body and the brain can only go for so long without a break and it will force you.

And a full on burnout breakdown is not fun and it could take you weeks before you're up to doing it again.

And as we're just getting back out there, you don't want to be losing weeks worth of income because your clients probably will go elsewhere at that point because you might not know when you're going to be able to pick up those, those lessons again, those clients again, then you're going to have a backlog and it's, it's just going to become a cycle that repeats itself. So please, please, for the love, for everybody, take a day off if you need it.

Please, if, if you're feeling fatigued, if your focus is shot, if you're not sleeping, these are, these are all good signs that you might need a day off. And whilst it might be tempting to go full pelt all day every day, at some point you are going to have to take a break.

So please, please do before you become a danger to yourself and your clients. Because we don't want to see any unpleasant stories.

Terry Cook: 00:40:04

I do notice, as you were saying, that you were really staring at me. It's like, yes, point taken. But when we've got that day off now, I suppose this is applicable to everyone, not just the driving instructors.

And I know everyone's different, but what would you suggest for people to actually unwind? You get that one day off a week, what would you suggest?

Robin Bates: 00:40:28

Whatever works for you. Everybody's different. For me it's walking and video games.

For other people, reading would suggest getting out, getting a bit of exercise, getting a bit of air, getting some vitamin D, some sun on your skin during the summer. Because we're all, we're all chronically lacking in vitamin D In the uk, if you can't make your own, store bought is fine, it's quite cheap.

So when everyone take some vitamin D, it's really good for you. It's whatever, whatever chills you, whatever you enjoy, whatever comes. If you want to go to the movies, go to the movies.

If you love to shop, go shopping. If you're someone who's energized by time around people, go and do something with people.

If, if, if you're an introvert, prefer time alone, enjoy that time alone, take a bath, go to the gym, stick your, stick your head in VR and shoot some space pirates. Whatever, whatever does it for you. I am not the king of self care in this respect in that I am rubbish for taking days off myself.

And I have to be reminded, tell them Terry, that I'm sat here in my dressing gown now because I've had quite a chill day today. But lie down, have a nice cup, nice cup of tea, try new biscuits, get some fancy jerky and try it. A little bit of what you fancy does you good.

Terry Cook: 00:42:07

I mean there's a hell of a lot of suggestions there.

But what I will say were you saying that about you not being necessarily taking your own advice is that's one of the things at first, what word attracted me to you is that you would talk about that and you're open about that. You know, you're open saying, yeah, I've done this and this for this is this, this don't do this.

What you should do is this, don't do what I did here. And I always liked that. Again, that's, again, I use the example before.

For me, I don't want to share my positive stuff, want to share my negative stuff. People can learn from other people's mistakes and I think that's key as well, you know.

But I do just want to touch back on because I said you give a lot of examples of what people could do there. But, and this is something you've helped me with.

If people are unsure what they enjoy, you Know, like for me, for years I've just pottered not knowing what I actually enjoy. And it was through working with you that you, you brought this podcast in and you brought other bits out in me.

What suggestions, if any, would you have for anyone that was sat at home on the day or twiddling of homes thinking, I just want to work, you know, how can they find their other passion?

Robin Bates: 00:43:26

Try things. Honestly, the best way is to try stuff out. If you've got an inkling that you want to do a podcast, have a go, record one.

If you want to try Basket weave and get yourself a cheap set, I would say don't spend a lot of money initially on a new hobby or project.

I work with a lot of podcasters and streamers and instantly want to buy the best kit and the best lighting rigs and stream decks and hundreds of pounds on microphones. The amount of people you see do that and then go, actually, I don't like it. And then they're left with all this gear that cost them a fortune.

Just try stuff out. There's so many sample classes and lessons and YouTube videos and podcasts you can listen to that can give you a bit of a flavor of something.

With world reopening, Meetup.com is great for finding like minded people to go and hang out with.

Whether you want to go and talk about Battlestar Galactica or go on a pub crawl or play some games or learn about languages, there's so much out there.

I've got friends who've, in the spare time they've done something which has almost furthered their personal development, but they've done it as something to relax, to enjoy. I've got friends who do dancing, I've got friends who do. They've learned sign language. Try stuff out, you don't have to stick with it.

And if you class that as a fail, that's a win as well. Hooray. I failed to find the thing that I enjoy. Never mind, try something else. Yeah.

Terry Cook: 00:45:28

Because you can then tick that off your list.

Robin Bates: 00:45:30

Yeah. Try not to do things that are sort of self destructive and healthy, like eat crisps and drink vodka.

That's probably not the healthiest or most useful of hobbies or ways to spend your day off. I'm not saying don't have crisps and don't have a drink, just everything in moderation. Yeah.

Terry Cook: 00:45:56

Bringing it away from that slightly and looking at instructors with customers, with a student to the learners. Again, one of the things that I've struggled with, I know other people struggle with and it's even harder now is saying no.

So you get the customer that maybe moves a little bit further away but still wants lessons. Or you get someone like now, oh, can you help me with my test? I've got it booked in for 12 of me and, you know, mine's you up.

They can't take me or whatever. I do find it hard to say no and I'm sure that there's lots of other people as well.

How would, what, what advice would you give me and others for saying no to people?

Robin Bates: 00:46:35

Yeah, it's hard. You don't want to turn down the business, especially now. Right. It's hard say no to your living. But again, it comes back to that burnout.

If you can fit them in, if you've got the time and the capacity and you want to, then do it, but you've got to say no at some point, otherwise people will take the mitt, will walk all over you. We'll take what you've got and run. You're not going to lose all of your clients by saying no to one. If one person comes to you, can you fit me in?

Like you say, for, I've got my lesson coming up, so my test coming up. Can you fit me in? Well, would you want to take someone on at that point anyway?

Should they be with their instructor who they've been with the whole time? What's going on here? What's going on here, Terry? How's this come around again? It's self care. You've got to look after yourself first.

If you don't look after yourself first, you're not going to be able to look after your clients, your students, your learners who are putting their trust and their money and their safety in your hands. If it's safe for you to do so, take on an extra lesson here and there. But don't, don't damage yourself.

Don't damage yourself because it comes back to the. You'll, you'll burn yourself out and you won't be able to do anything and you'll just be lying on your bed watching tv.

And after the last however many months it's been, I think we're all a little bit over that.

Terry Cook: 00:48:27

I think that's, that's key as well. It's that when you, for example, finish work, we need to be able to switch off.

We don't want to go into a coma tour state, you know, it needs to be come home and then do something else that you enjoy that could be sitting there watching tv. So enjoy. But we don't want to do it because we ain't got the energy to do anything else. I think that's quite key as well.

In fact, just on that, I know you kind of touched on this before, but switching off, that's something I've struggled with. And again, you've helped me with. It's at the end of the day now. I know previously spoke to me about getting like a routine to finish the day off.

Then your body and brain knows it's the end of the day. Can you expand on that a little bit?

Robin Bates: 00:49:11

Yeah. Sleep hygiene, again, it's not something that I'm amazing at in that, you know, we all know you shouldn't have screens before bed.

And yet there I am on my phone five minutes before bed and watching YouTube videos to fall asleep to. So again, it's do take the good bits of what I do and adapt it to your own purposes. But we are machines of routine. We're creatures of habit.

And having a series of steps that you do at bedtime will just help your. Your brain and your body to know that, you know what, it's actually, it's time for me to start switching off and shutting down.

So for me, I have a mug of. What's it called? It's a bedtime tea. Snore and peace. Snore in peace.

I brush my teeth, check my blood glucose, and actually, this is where it all goes wrong. Then I put the office on. And I tend to fall asleep with the office on because I've seen it so many times.

I can pay attention to it and enjoy it, or I can all wash over me, just an episode at a time. You know, I don't have it. Just run the whole series and the screens off. Just the audio.

Of course, it would be better to maybe do a little meditation or have some guided meditation playing in the background to switch off to. And Inside Timer is great for that. It's an app which has got thousands of free meditations on there.

And when my sleep hygiene was a bit better, that's what I was doing. But right now, do you know what? No. I have a very active mind.

It struggles to switch off at night, and if I get into bed and don't have something playing, it starts to go, oh, let's think about all the awful things you've ever done in your life. What about that time when you were nine? No brain. What about that meeting that's coming up? Oh, you're not ready for that. Hi, brain. Shush.

The more you argue with it, the more it wants to play. So, yeah, bit of music, guided meditation. Brain FM has some good sleep routines on it as well.

But having a routine, a series of steps that you can do every night involves taking your contacts out or doing your lateral flow test or do it in the same order every night. It's not going to bed in immediately.

Your body has, your brain has to build new connections so that it connects this sequence of events to go in to bed.

Terry Cook: 00:52:23

Yeah, it's, it's, it's almost having that one or series of things that just tells your brain, yeah, it's bedtime now and your brain becomes automatic. I mean mine, I suppose my 2:1 is similar to yours. When I watch the office now, my brain knows it's bedtime.

So the other day I put the office on at lunchtime and I'm dozing off straight away, but the other one, and I've not quite perfected this shit, but I'm finding this is actually working is, is my car. And I was doing this before Christmas as well. When I need to go back out in my car when my working day isn't done, I will reverse into my drive.

When my working day is finished, I drive in and it's like, I know then, right, I've stopped for a day and it seems to work. I seem to relax more getting out of my car when I drive in than when I, when I reversing. So it's a weird little trigger that I built there.

Robin Bates: 00:53:17

Nice. That's a Pavlovian conditioned response. For anyone who wants to know that, yes, we are treating Terry like one of Pavlov's dogs.

I have to do the same because I do my engineering by day and then coaching for geeks by night. And I have to draw a line between the two and then I have to draw a line between CFG stuff and you know what? This is my time, me time.

I will change my clothes after I've finished one bit of work and I'll go for a walk, get some air between switching off, that's sort of bedtimey time.

Terry Cook: 00:53:56

That's another one I do sometimes. Like I say, I'll do evening lessons.

So I'll come home and what I do is I take my socks and shoes off and it seems weird, I don't know, it's just a fresh air around my feet and I'll sometimes go outside like that as well. And it just refreshes me a little bit. Ready to go back out when it's telling my brain, you haven't finished yet, you haven't finished yet.

So I do appreciate you coming on today. I've got one more question for you. It's almost putting you on the spot a little bit.

If you were to leave today with one piece of Advice for everyone, ADIs in particular, I suppose what one piece of advice or one tip would you leave us with now?

Robin Bates: 00:54:34

Ah, shit, I've got to think of something. It's something that we've touched on already.

It's that unless you take, if you go full pelt now, take a break at some point, build that in, put your brakes in first before you start booking in students and your clients and go, do you know what? This is my non negotiable day off.

As tempting as it might be to work all day every day for the next six months, you're not going to run out of potential students or clients in the next six months because there's such a backlog. So please, please take care of yourself. Take a day off, take a break.

Otherwise you'll end up your body and your brain is going to force it and nobody wants to see that because it's really unpleasant. Burnout ain't fun. I've been there myself and, and I've lost months to it. Also take, take your, take your vitamins. That's the other one.

Terry Cook: 00:55:48

And any in particular or just all of them?

Robin Bates: 00:55:51

Wow, all of them. Depends if you can get your blood works done to find out what you've vitamins you do need.

It's really useful experience to do so I have vitamin D and I have a vitamin K chaser which helps with the uptake of vitamin D. And then I have some magnesium, a bit of boron.

Speaker C: 00:56:12

What else have we got here?

Robin Bates: 00:56:15

Layers.

Feel a lot better for it, especially because we've been inside all day and if you're going to be in your car all day again, it's vitamin D if you're not out in the sun. The majority of Brits are deficient in vitamin D. So just take a little snifter of D and you'll be right. It's Ray.

Terry Cook: 00:56:40

I think that the. Yeah, take a sniff of D. I think that the taking break thing, I would wholeheartedly endorse that for anyone listening. It's something that I've.

I mean as we recall this, I've only been back a week but it's something I've scheduled into my diary, especially in between lessons. I mean there are some days in my diary where I refuse to more than three lessons now.

And what I've done is I put and again, as I say this out, I can hear the Adi screaming at me as I say when I put hour and a half in between my lessons. And it's the best thing I've ever done. I've had the best week ever.

This week I'm going for walks, I've meditated, I'll read in between lessons and yes, I'm out of the house longer, but I'm actually enjoying my time and it's making me enjoy the lessons more. So it's not just about taking the break through the day.

I mean, you said everyone's different, so some people might find it easier to go bang, bang, bang, done and then go home and relax. But I think the key thing there is that relax, switch off, do something rather than just go home and go comatose.

So, yes, I would wholeheartedly agree with your tip on both vitamins and taking a break.

Robin Bates: 00:57:53

What would your top tip be? Terry. Terry's top tips.

Terry Cook: 00:57:57

Right now, my biggest tip that I am screaming from the rooftops on, everything that I do is to experiment a little bit. I think that we.

Robin Bates: 00:58:06

Ooh la la.

Terry Cook: 00:58:07

Yes. I think that we're in very privileged position. We've been as an industry, we've been hit hard. We really have.

And again, I know lots of other people have as well, but we've been hit hard, but now we've got this wonderful opportunity where there's just a massive demand and we're not going to run out of customers.

And I think it's experimenting, like I use myself as a positive example, like I've done this week, experimenting with my times, putting that gap between lessons, playing a little bit. I'm doing three day and I've set a schedule where I can do a lesson this time, this time, this time, but I can't do one this time.

And I've set like mapped out a week, but also experimenting with social media, experimenting with your marketing, experiment with your prices, experiment with your coaching technique, experiment with your personal development, experiment, as you said, with things you enjoy. I just think that's, that is the perfect opportunity and I think it's massive and I think we should do it anyway.

I think it's almost like some God, I'm gonna say the grand reset, but that's a conspiracy theory.

But it's almost like we've hit the reset button and I just really believe that it's an opportunity for people to experiment with what works with them.

Robin Bates: 00:59:24

And you should always be pushing against your comfort zone anyway because it's, it's constantly closing in on you. And the more you push back against it, the more flexible you will be.

The more capable of rolling with the punches, of dealing with disaster, of enjoying those unexpected moments of weirdness and life. But you have to keep pushing against it, trying new things.

Otherwise it'll get smaller and smaller and smaller until your just terrified of everything because it's all scary and different and you, the more you do again that the more flexible you become.

Terry Cook: 01:00:08

Yeah, I would agree with that as well. I set myself a goal this week of getting someone to say no to me every day. So I was like requesting people to come on the podcast.

I was sending out emails for stuff or requesting team up sort of thing. And once someone has said no to me then I would stop for that day.

Unfortunately everyone was saying yeah, so I changed it to once a week because I can't quite do that much stuff. But yeah, I think that's key. Stepping out of your comfort zone. I really do.

And do you know what, while you're on here, this is something you're good at as well. What advice would you give to anyone that is scared of stepping out of their comfort zone?

Robin Bates: 01:00:48

Just step a little way out. Just give it a little push.

If you're, if you're really, really stuck in there, if you're doing the same things day in, day out, just try wiggling your comfort zone a little bit. Like if you take the same route every day, take a different route.

If you have the same radio station on every day, just try listening to something else. Try a different kind of video game or TV show or type of food.

Something that's not beyond the realms of comfort but it challenges you just a little bit. Do a jigsaw puzzle, read a book, walk a different way around the block. We get so ingrained into our habits because it's, it's a safety mechanism.

We get comfortable and safety from the things that we do most regularly. And that's why we've got to push against it. Otherwise you become a, a sad old racist who sits on the sofa and only watches X Factor and eats.

That's the pasta.

Terry Cook: 01:02:05

That's the clip I'm going to use when I promote this show. Do you know what, Ray?

I did say a couple of questions ago, this was my last question, but you brought us into this topic now, so I'm going to ask you another. I'd like an example, just out of interest. An example of when you've stepped out of your comfort zone and what reward as a result of that.

Robin Bates: 01:02:32

Sure. I never really spoken on stage. And I decided that I was going to.

So I started applying to Comic cons and events, put together a pitch, not expecting any of them to say yes, and ended up speaking at some of the biggest Comic Cons in the uk, which helped grow my audience, which brought in more clients, helped develop my authority. Biggest stage I spoke at was at MCM London Comic Con. Full House on the main stage.

3000 people listen to me interview cosplayers talking about cosplay confidence. I was no cosplayer, but it was one of those it let's have a go and see what happens moments.

And this led to me getting stage over at PAX east in Boston, Massachusetts in the states that paid for my event pass. You get a free event pass and that's like 250 quids worth of ticket and help grow my audience over in the states.

And now it turns out I really love doing this.

And we've put together crazy events for Comic Cons which don't necessarily have a direct relevance to coaching for geeks, but get me exposure to my target audience, content creators and geeky entrepreneurs who are doing stuff in this space. And it's helped me to network with relatively well known comedians and YouTubers and Twitch streamers.

So that was one of those things where I went to an event and someone went, oh, you don't have to speak about things directly related to your business. And I went, oh, okay, in that case I'll have a go and see what's gonna happen.

And there's me sandwiched between Sebastian, Stan and the Cosplay Masquerade, which is not an unpleasant place to be.

Terry Cook: 01:04:55

And I'm guessing, well, it must have all come from an initial first small step.

Robin Bates: 01:05:00

Yeah, it's that if you don't ask, you don't get. First step was chancing my arm seeing if I could get a press pass for Comic Con. I can write about this for my.

I just thought I'd get a free pass and I have to stand in the massive queue to get in. It's awful, that Comic Con queue. And then the content manager went, oh, hey, do you want to have a chat? Sure.

And then I'm like good mates with one of the content managers and sure, everything's changed over the last year. So many people have moved on from all these events, but I've got a foot in the door. If I want to pitch something, I can pitch something.

It comes back to that fear of failure thing. Just pitch pitch stuff to places. If you don't ask, you don't Get I've had some great guests back when I had a podcast just from asking.

Quinn's from Shut up and Sit Down Big board game channel. I just went, hey, Quinn's from Shut up and Sit Down.

Would you come and talk to my audience about games that board games that aren't shit for Christmas, that aren't Monopoly. Sure.

Terry Cook: 01:06:13

Speaking of great guests, you've been a great guest today, Robin.

Robin Bates: 01:06:18

Thank you very much. Terry. It's been a pleasure.

Terry Cook: 01:06:20

Fully appreciate you coming on some some wonderful knowledge bombs and insights there. Where can people find you? I'll obviously put the links in the show notes, but where can people find you and get more Robin and CFG goodness.

Robin Bates: 01:06:34

Well, first of all they should go and check the show notes because all the links will be there.

But coachingforgeekeeks.com is my site if you would like to join the amazing Facebook community where you'll find Terry himself part of our terrific community. CoachIfGeeks.com Facebook will take you in. You can find me on Twitter and Twitch and Instagram, but I'm most active on Facebook.

Just type Coaching for geeks into anything that will take words. A browser, preferably typewriter, won't help.

Terry Cook: 01:07:18

It'll be live, so you won't be able to join it by the time this podcast is released, but it may well be coming again.

So there's also Turbo, which is the paid subscription service to come in to you and get all your goodness and more goodness and courses and community and amazing stuff like that which people can join further down the line potentially.

Robin Bates: 01:07:41

Indeed. It's a monthly service so you can come join for one month, join for six.

We give you daily accountability prompts, group coaching and goal setting, and access to our entire back catalogue of training which includes achievement, unlocked how to achieve anything, how to find out your purpose, the ultimate nerd formula, which covers networking, emotions and mindset relationships and daily health for that awkward D shoved in the end because we couldn't make the acronym work and all of the panels and guest experts that we've had in coaching for geeks as well, we'd love to have you along if there's something you want to work on for a month or longer and you want some focus, you want some accountability, you can't do better than CFG Turbo.

Terry Cook: 01:08:36

Awesome. Well, as I said, thank you for joining us today. It's been super having you on, so thank you for giving us your time.

Robin Bates: 01:08:42

Thank you very much, Terry. It's been a joy. Foreign.

Terry Cook: 01:08:51

Some really thoughtful comments and conversation there with Robin. I'm sure you'll agree. I think that I don't think I'm speaking just for myself when I say this, but I can definitely take a lot more care of myself.

Whether it's doing something between lessons, before lessons, after lessons, not plowing into lessons, whether it's looking at failure a different way, whether it's conversing my students a different way, I think there's definitely more I can do to look after myself. And hopefully you've taken something from this podcast as well. As always, if you've got any feedback, make sure that you just you get in touch.

You can find me on messenger or head over@tcdrive.co.uk you can get in touch with me over there. And if you're enjoying these, leave us a nice little five star review.

So, as promised, we're going to get some updates from the ditc and today it's Chris Benstead.

Speaker C: 01:09:43

Hi, this is Chris Benstead from the ditc, the Driving Instructor and Trainers Collective.

We are building a platform to signpost individuals like driving instructors, trainers, PDIs, pre PDIs and other interested parties to different areas of the industry that they may not have found yet. So we want to become the go to signposting place.

So Terry and the instructor podcast have kindly asked us to help signpost you to changes that are going on inside the industry during the week. And this week has seen the relaunch of Safe driving for life. Safedrivingforlife.info from the TSO on behalf of the DVSA.

So it didn't get a very good launch on Facebook. Driving instructors were not impressed and I have to say I've been looking through, trying to find the positives and I'm struggling.

It's not the most appealing of websites, it's not very engaging and it's designed to give people information of are they ready? Talking about the tests, both theory and practical. Finding a driving instructor and developing the knowledge base that they need, it's very limited.

There's not a lot on there. It's all about selling the DVSA products and trying to find the information.

If we go to what would be interesting to the listeners of Find a Driving Instructor, they've got three key points on what to look for. So it's important for you to make sure your instructor is right for you.

Try to choose an instructor who has a good reputation, is reliable and punctual, has a car that suits you.

So there's no mention of cpd, there's no mention of have they developed themselves to make Themselves better, whether formally or informally, there's nothing to say. Look for the badge in the window and make sure they're actually qualified. And it's the DVSA badge that we have in that window.

And there is also nothing to say how are they going to treat you, how are they going to teach you, how are they going to be client centered?

So it, it's very out of touch with what we now offer as modern day driving professionals, professional trainers, so it would be nice to see if that was reflected inside of there. We then go on to the cost of learning to drive and I believe actually this has changed.

It's about five pounds, maybe 10 pounds higher than when it started. So learning to drive could be quite expensive. Lovely way to lead. The average cost of an hour driving Lesson is between £30 and £35.

If you need 47 hours of instruction before passing your test, It'll cost over £1,400 in driving lessons, plus the cost of your license and tests. Lessons can vary widely between instructors and depending on where you live. So we're focusing on the cost, not the benefits.

It doesn't say, compare two lessons and see if they're the same. Does one instructor provide additional services and skills like a diary system, a student interface, theory support or theory training?

None of that's covered and it really leaves us wanting more, if I'm honest. I'll be feeding this back to the tso and if you want to feed back to the tso, I'm sure that Terry will provide the website to do so.

So that's it for us this week, but I promise we'll try and find something more positive for next time. Stay safe everyone.

Terry Cook: 01:13:33

So thank you, Chris, for giving us that update. Yes, I wasn't overly impressed either with the safe driving website for the same reasons that Chris has said. It felt very, almost unprofessional.

It felt like it was quite demeaning to our industry.

To me it wasn't almost bigger, so I think that it could well have been and it's an opportunity to, to big up instructors, but also, you know, tell you what, tell you what to watch out for and tell you what to look for. And I just felt it was a little bit on the, the belittling side.

If you check the show notes, there will be the email address there for you to get in touch and provide feedback to those there. So as I said before, thank you for listening today. Hope you've enjoyed it. Make sure you get in touch with any feedback. Remember, stay safe.

So thank you for listening today.

If you've enjoyed this podcast, make sure you click subscribe wherever you're listening so that the next one will drop straight into your podcast feed. If you want to get in touch with us, sure. Head over to tcdrive.com you can get in touch with me by any method over there.

And remember, let's just keep raising standards and stay safe.