Shift Gears: The DITC's Blueprint for Better Driving Instructors

Chris Bensted: 00:00:00

Foreign.

Terry Cook: 00:00:10

Welcome and thank you for joining us on the instructor podcast where every week we're joined by experts and innovators, leaders and game changers so we can hold a mirror up at the instructor industry and see where we can improve and raise our standards. So if you're ready, we'll make a start. Thank you again for joining us today on the instructor podcast.

If you're enjoying these podcasts, make sure you hit subscribe or follow so they go directly into your feed every Sunday. Today in this episode we are joined by the wonderful Chris Benstead.

Now in this episode we have quite a long variant chat covering a whole host of topics around the industry. But the main protocol was to talk about the ditc, the Driver Instructor Trading Collective.

And Chris goes into quite a lot of detail about that, about what benefits provided and there's some awesome benefits from that by the way. And also talks about what his long term goals for it and what the goals are short term as well.

And he shares his quite forfried views on the industry. So we'll hope you enjoy this one and we'll make a start. So today we are joined by the wonderful and lovely Chris Benstead. How are you today, Chris?

Chris Bensted: 00:01:34

I'm good, thank you. Especially after a wonderful and lovely. That's even better.

Terry Cook: 00:01:39

I make a point of choosing them specific for the person. I am glad that you're well. What I'd like to do is ask you to tell us a little bit about yourself rather than mainstream research.

You want to tell me a little bit about your background and about what you're up to now?

Chris Bensted: 00:01:54

Yeah, sure. So I'm just a driving instructor, which is what I always start with when people ask what I do, because it's a list.

But I'm a driving instructor who's managed to be in the right place at the right time throughout. So I started the first Facebook group for driving instructors. I'm an ADI PDI and I'm on Facebook.

And I then went from doing that to being able to go on Sky News and talk for instructors when learners were being allowed on motorways. And that was brilliant. And I got there because I said yes, 10 other instructors have said no.

And then, you know, there's other opportunities along the way. And I've, yeah, I've made a good habit of being in the right place at the right time.

But I started being an instructor 13 years ago and I've done the national franchise, I've been independent and I now run better driver training. We've got a growing number of instructors I think we've got seven at the moment with a couple of PDIs coming through.

Depends where in the process everybody is, but yeah, so that's going really well. I'm now not on the road, I'm doing theory training one to one on zoom. So I'm spending my life looking at a zoom screen and that's awesome.

Hugely under supported in the industry and I'm doing that for other instructors.

So we're doing it under theory test explained and other instructors are sending me pupils that need a bit of help, particularly those with dyslexia, autism, memory issues, because that's one of my, one of my specialist subjects, helping people remember stuff and yeah, so working through those things.

And then out of the ashes of COVID and national lockdowns we launched the Driving Instructor and Trainers Collective which is a platform for driving instructors in an industry where we're all isolated as we know and we lockdown proved that even more but can really come together. But we've never really had those platforms to come together on.

We've always kind of been floating around somewhere and ad hoc little groups or satellites and there's not been a strong platform.

We've always looked towards the DVSA to provide that wrongly and they drew a real lighting in the sand and said, you know, we regulate, you know, we make sure you meet the minimum standard, we provide the minimum standard. I've never met an instructor who wants to be providing minimum standard.

There's some that struggle to, you know, to fight the other challenges that we have and some that haven't found the path yet, but they all want to do their best. So why are we looking downwards?

So that's the DITC in a nutshell, is going to be, is changing rapidly but it's going to be a platform, a communication hub for instructors to find stuff, useful stuff and to hopefully bring people together. I am thanks to Neil Peake from ADI njc.

We had a chat at the beginning of the first lockdown group of the NJC and myself and he said would you call yourself a middleman? And I said that's exactly it. I have always been, I've been the person who goes, oh, you're doing that and you're doing that, you should talk.

Terry Cook: 00:05:49

Yeah.

Chris Bensted: 00:05:50

And I see the DITC being the middleman for the industry or woman. I'm non gender specific when it comes to the ditc.

Terry Cook: 00:06:00

But yeah, I mean the DITC is sort of the big thing I brought you on to speak about today. But there's also a lot, a lot of meat, to pick the bones, to pick off the bones there.

But before I even get into all that, I like to ask everyone to think back to their driving test. This is something that I'm always interested in.

Looking back at your driving test and when you learnt to drive those many, many moons ago, what are your thoughts then? As in, how do you recollect your lessons, how did you handle your test? And. And, you know, sort of how is it different now?

Chris Bensted: 00:06:35

I love that. I think I always try to reflect back. I was talking to a PDI yesterday and she sort of said, well, my lessons were like this.

I didn't really get on with the instructor. He shouted at me lots, but I got there and you think it shouldn't have been like that, but people do and, you know, that's what I don't want to be.

So I often reflect back. I. I was actually lucky.

It was a friend of the family, my brother's godmother, who was a qualified instructor, really good reputation and she was one of those people that was able to shout in a good way. She'd have a pop at you, but not really mean was attitude. It was bants, as we would say nowadays, but then we didn't know what that was.

And I, I'm not a good driver and I still say that now. I've learned to be a good driver.

When I started doing my training to become an instructor, my trainer said, you know, why do you want to be an instructor? And I said, because I'm good with people. Don't particularly like people, but I'm good with people.

I came from retail that breaks it out of you and I like systems, I like making stuff simple, breaking it down into bits. So I thought, be good at it. And he looked at me as if I'd said something wrong and I thought, oops, you know, maybe it's not the job for me.

He said, everyone always says, either I like driving or I'm good at driving. And I went, no, I'm rubbish. Good luck. So. And that's from the very beginning. So doing my L test, it took me a little while, not a huge amount of time.

I managed to sprain my ankle hanging off about a balcony halfway through.

So that delayed things and, you know, I was, yeah, I kind of got it, but I was never good, but got to my test, sailed through, wasn't a problem because I got on really well with the examiner. He was really chatty and they were notorious, the two local examiners.

I got the nicer one of the two, but they was both, you know, notorious for their attitude. And we were just chatting about his son and the fact he was an ex boxer. And within a couple of minutes, I kind of went, yeah, I feel relaxed.

And I think what I learned from that was because I'd taken a bit longer, having sprained my ankle, lots of private practice. I was a driver taking that L test. I wasn't someone who was hoping to pass. I'd done that because it had been forced upon me.

You know, I wasn't able to have lessons for a bit and that sort of thing. And I think that's what I've carried forwards, is that you need to be relaxed to be good enough and if you can, can make it about real life.

That's, you know, I got that from my driving. It was never about the test because I was out driving with my dad doing practice because I wasn't able to have lessons at one point.

So, yeah, I think that was really. That's the stuff that I. When I reflect back, I don't know if I realized it then.

Terry Cook: 00:09:52

Yeah.

Chris Bensted: 00:09:53

But I felt very relaxed with the driving. And then I got a Ford Escort. So, you know, I didn't fit the stereotype. But the car was cool.

Terry Cook: 00:10:02

It's some interest. Well, yeah, some interesting points there, actually.

I'm gonna just tell a little story, actually, because when you're talking there about being relaxed with the examiner, I do think that makes a significant difference. A difference. I mean, that shouldn't be why you pass or fail a test.

You know, no one can ever use that as a reason, but I do think it makes a difference. And I think back to my. So I took the Old Style part three to become an instructor, and I failed the first time, the past. Second. First attempt.

Nothing wrong with the examiner. I don't blame the examiner. She was pleasant, but I never felt comfortable.

The second one put me at ease straight away, right from walking out the door with us. She never once spoke about the test. So we got in the car and I felt completely. And I blitzed it, and I think that's a really good thing. But just.

Were you talking about your test as well? Getting on with the examiner.

I'm gonna do a podcast one day about my experience at passing the driving test because I was atrocious and I didn't get on with the examiners, and they always did stupid stuff. Like one of them, I got in the wrong car, which you wouldn't expect to do on your driving test.

But I remember I was learning in a black Ford Fiesta, and It just had L plates on. And when I come out of test center, they'll parked up made road and there were two next to each other. And I'm like, I don't know which is which.

I know I'll press the button. Whichever one opens, that's mine. So I pressed it. First one flashed, I got in and I'm like cramped up behind the steering wheel.

I think something's not right here. And the examiner opened the other one. I think you're in your own car. Yeah, I think I might be.

Then I remember when I got in the correct car and I said to the examiner, what did I say to her? I said jokingly, I went, is there any point in me taking my test now? And they went, just drive. Well, yeah, okay. And I failed that one, oddly enough.

Chris Bensted: 00:11:51

I think it's really important. And we both said it. And it's not about the examiner, it's not about fault, it's not saying it's to do with them.

But if you can feel relaxed, that shows that you feel confident in a way. It's a test, but you feel confident. I did my minibus test. The examiner came out relatively recently.

It was an adi and examiner came out and said, Christopher. And I said, yes, but can you call me Chris? Otherwise it means I'm in trouble. And at that moment, the whole world froze.

I looked at my trainer, he looked at me and we just kind of went, oops. She didn't appreciate it. Yeah, I think I probably should have. Should have known better.

But I was just being relaxed and me and that atmosphere didn't help me. And it's just about how you feel, you know, I'm a big one for desensitizing the test center so that you're not. It's not all about that.

One of the things that I have thrown back at me on a regular basis is I did a talk about nlp, neuro linguistic programming. And I was. Lots of stuff that I was talking about.

And then it was one of those throwaway questions where someone said, you know, how do you use words to get a subconscious message across? And I said, one of the things I do is when I'm going past the test center, I say, we're going.

We're just going to go past the test, pass the test, and you can pause, you can make it sound like anyone should have heard it but didn't pass the test center. And I swear that that kind of helps you feel. People get this positive association. Whether it does or not, I don't care because it works.

I feel more relaxed. I kind of find it funny. So I'm laughing to myself that I've got this past them. And I think it helps.

And that's the one that people always quote back to me and go, I've been using that ever since you said it. And that was. Yeah, it must be eight, nine, ten years ago.

And, you know, it's things like that, that if you've got this positive association, if you've got, you know, instructors that can make their pupils feel relaxed. You know, I figured out you don't play the Imperial March from. From Star wars when the examiner walks in the room. I thought it was funny.

Terry Cook: 00:14:34

I'm guessing the examiner didn't.

Chris Bensted: 00:14:39

We were just having a laugh about the fact that they should all have their theme tune when they walk in. And. Yeah, well, what would the theme tune be? And I pushed the button just as the door opened. No, we had a laugh about it. It was fine.

And I seem to remember they did pass. But I got one of those don't push it up clicks. But they're quite common. I'm used to that.

Terry Cook: 00:15:04

I think that's pretty cool. I mean, I'd never considered using the word. I mean, I think part of it is my accent. I probably can't differentiate between past and past.

I probably can't.

Chris Bensted: 00:15:15

We prefer the A's down this way, don't we? It's a harder A. It's the grass.

Terry Cook: 00:15:23

But, I mean, I think the other key thing is, like you said there, it's the putting them at ease. And they're familiarizing them with the test center or around the idea of a test.

But I'd love to just get your opinion on the word failure for a second because I'm always sort of split into ways. And for me, I think it depends on the student.

Because if I've got someone that's really anxious about that, I'll tend to use the word failure more just to take the edge off it. So that. Take away not negative connotations. But I don't know. I think I get some people. I think.

I'm not gonna say that word because I think that's gonna have more of a harsh impact. I'd love to hear your thoughts on that.

Chris Bensted: 00:16:06

I like that I pre. My. I qualified as a clinical hypnotherapist.

I'm not quite sure what that title really means because I've never really done it and then realized putting people in a trance in the car wasn't a good idea. But during that, I Discovered nlp. So pre nlp, I would have said I wasn't good with failure, but I did it quite a lot. I didn't achieve the.

I didn't manage to reach the stars with what I was trying to do. I was all right, I got by. Jack of all trades kind of thing. I was good at stuff, but I didn't find anything I excelled at.

So therefore I probably failed at everything because I didn't get there. Nlp, one of the. One of the presuppositions is that there is no failure, only feedback.

So you're on a driving lesson and you think, we'll have a go at this technique and it doesn't work, that you haven't failed at that technique. You've just figured out something that doesn't work. It's the.

Whether he said it or not, it's the Edison quote of, you know, he found 10,000 ways not to make a light bulb. Yeah. Questionable.

Terry Cook: 00:17:22

But.

Chris Bensted: 00:17:24

That approach of going, actually, there isn't. There isn't failure. You know, you don't fail. You learn. You pick yourself up and you go, I won't do that again.

Or you go, that didn't work, but maybe this will. Or, you know, I was listening to yourself talking to Bob Morton and Bob saying, it's that positive approach for going, what happened there?

How did that make you feel about it? Which is a phrase I hate because it makes everyone boo. Coaching. But the first response to everything is emotional.

Even when I've had issues with my knee for a while, walking in the room just now, it cracked my. It didn't hurt, but I said, ow. And I felt pain because I knew that an annoyance meant it could hurt.

So my first response wasn't anything actually physical. It was an emotional response. And, you know, you then work from that point. So how did you feel?

Except for when I talked someone who I think is probably psychopathic, genuinely psychopathic, who we were reversing around the corner and I said, how do you feel about that? And she looked at me and went, what do you mean, emotion? And, yeah, I genuinely, you know, she was fascinating. I loved teaching her. It was great.

But no, we didn't do feelings.

Terry Cook: 00:18:54

I mean, I've been throwing you. Because I've got to say, when you said that, I featured Hannibal Lecter. When you said that.

Chris Bensted: 00:19:02

A very attractive version of Hannibal Lecter. Then, yes, she was absolutely lovely. But there was that cold stare. Yes. She had that dead, dead, you know, off path, no problem at all.

So, yeah, I think when I discovered that, when I Discovered actually look for what you've achieved from not achieving it, not succeeding to the point of, you know, and we all say it, how many people failed their test for one thing, but that one thing was 99% of the test. They ignore the other 30, whatever minutes that they drove beautifully.

Terry Cook: 00:19:51

Yeah.

Chris Bensted: 00:19:53

You know, why do we have this imbalance? Our brain's designed to be negative. I refuse. Some lovely people have said that. They've commented about my positivity.

I, you know, one of the things I do class a bit of a failure was Positivity week, which at the time was brilliant. Very big on Facebook. People who weren't on Facebook at the time might not have experienced it, but it was just going.

As an industry, we tend to focus on thought. So let's have a week of just being amazingly positive.

And then, like all of us, I got busy and rather than having this time to say, oh, let's all be positive, because I haven't got a full diary, I suddenly had a full diary. I was going, I'm struggling to be positive. I can't be positive for other people. I need to be positive for me.

But, yeah, I think that positive approach is really important. So just to think about what you said about the fact you either use or don't use the word failure.

I think what I do is I challenge whether it is a failure. I don't like words having power, which is really silly because I think they've got huge power, actually.

I think when we use the right word, we can change so much, but I think we have to decide what that means. I don't think the word test, you know, you can call it something else if you want. Um, and it is an assessment because, you know, of how it works.

But you know what, let's just make it that we. It's. It's a, you know, it's the same as testing you brushing your teeth, something you do every day.

Terry Cook: 00:21:41

Yeah.

Chris Bensted: 00:21:41

That, you know, it's just a thing. And yeah, say words do have power. And yeah, there's different people that have different takes on.

Terry Cook: 00:21:52

Definitely one of the other things. And again, I'll be fascinated to hear your take on this is.

Is I sort of put the emphasis more on, well, let's go and show the examiner how good you are. Let's go and. Let's go and show them what you can do. And you know what, even if you do fail, you're going to take a. Learn from that.

Because, you know, I think of it this. With the example I use a lot as well. Is imagine you're on your test, you're reversing back and you're about to lamp or see examiner says stop.

It's better. That happens on the test and the day after the test when there's no one to say stop, then you're reversing the lamp post.

You know, I know which semi prefer out them too.

Chris Bensted: 00:22:29

I love that phrase. Take a learn from that. Yeah, I think it is, isn't it? It's what can you take away? Yeah, I think it's always the positive. It's got to be.

But there isn't a benefit any other way.

Terry Cook: 00:22:48

I mean, obviously we spoke there about NLP and about hypnotherapy and you say you're a trained hypnotherapist.

Chris Bensted: 00:22:54

I did a course in it. I'm a big believer in hats. I've never found my hypnotherapist hat. My instructor hat is very comfortable. I have no problem being a driving instructor.

I like challenging myself. But as long as I know my stuff, the a quote inside of Ian Brett and myself, my business partner myself is know your shit, don't show your shit.

So you know, it's. You've got to, you've got to have that foundation, you've got to have that knowledge behind what you're talking about.

I don't like talking when I don't know what I'm talking about. I can make it up as I go along, but I want the foundations to be there. So, yeah, I think that's, you know, that's a large part of what I do.

And the hypnotherapy, I love it. I recommend it to everybody for everything. Test nerves. If people have got health conditions as well, we don't know how to relax.

Hypnosis is based in relaxation and, you know, being able to do amazing things. My son slept through from two weeks because I was studying hypnosis at the time.

So I was practicing on the other half and I swear that that's why he's just been brilliant. And I used to be able to put him into a trance, getting him to focus on the back of his hand and you just watch him kind of and.

Yeah, but I've never, I've never felt like I am a hypnotherapist.

Terry Cook: 00:24:41

we're in now. I think it was: 2019

So my spiritual health and on that side of it, and it was just ridiculously beneficial. And I think there's a really flipping view on it when you look from the outside. Again, I'm not training anything. I was on the receiving end of it.

I think that people are too quick to dismiss it. I think it's for me. Well, I can say it's from my benefit. My perspective was a massive benefit to me.

Chris Bensted: 00:25:18

Yeah. If everything is inside your head, it controls everything. You know, your brain is doing all of these things without you knowing about it.

If there's a problem, if you're in a restaurant and there's an issue with your order, you don't necessarily talk to the waiter or to the chef. You go straight to the person in charge because you want to address it, you want to get something sorted.

But when we have a problem, emotional problem, which none of us are particularly good at dealing with anyway, it's a state of how the world is now, or a physical problem, why don't you go straight to the top? You know, go straight to the thing that's in charge, is controlling it and try and make sure that things are in alignment. Yeah. And I am the least.

I'm going to change that. I was the least spiritual person you've ever met.

You know, I've never been a fan of organized religion and I kind of, you know, everything was quite scientific as I was growing up. You know, for me, I took that kind of approach. I did the hypnosis and I ended up referring to myself as being spiritual.

I discovered pantheism, which I found fascinating. And if I had to hang my hat on a hook, that would probably be it. Not my hypnotherapy hacks, I haven't got one, but another hat. And.

Yeah, and I, you know, I really did come out of it kind of having a much more enlightened view. I lost the anger.

I had a nightmare when I was growing up with stress and anger and actually went to a healer that, you know, waved her hands around, which I don't think was anything to do with her waving her hands around and, you know, blue light and stuff. It was. She gave me time to lay there, chill out, relax, and she listened to me. Yeah, let me talk. That's what I think. And, you know, I might be wrong.

She might have had magical powers and I accept that. I don't poo poo it. For me, it wasn't that. It was an opportunity to.

To center myself and that I bring into my training of, you know, how do people need. People need to understand themselves. How do you understand yourself if you're too busy with the outside world?

Terry Cook: 00:27:39

Yeah, I mean, that's fascinating. And I get what you're saying there about centering yourself and being almost at peace with what? With the healer there.

y back around towards the end: 2019

And I can notice now if I go a few days about meditating, I start to feel it almost like attention. It's odd. It's an odd feeling.

But, you know, I'm not going to advise anyone to do it or advise when the house do it, because I don't know, I'll do what's right for me, but advise everyone to give it a go. But, you know, you said something interesting there as well, just earlier, about wearing a certain hat.

And I think I wanted to touch back on something he said right at the beginning when he used a phrase. It perked my attention a little bit of just an instructor.

And I don't know how I feel about that phrase because it almost sounds derogatory, the word just.

Chris Bensted: 00:28:42

Yes.

Terry Cook: 00:28:43

Whereas there's nothing wrong with being an instructor at all. And if that's what you are, then that's brilliant.

But to me, you strike me as someone that is much more than that because of the stuff you do above and beyond, if that makes sense.

Chris Bensted: 00:29:02

But I don't think it is above and beyond. I think what is. Often when you come into the job, you're handed a green badge and you're told that you teach learner drivers.

The world is so much bigger than that, the opportunities are so much bigger than that.

And the people that become instructors, if you want to, and you are happy going out, doing a lesson, teaching a learner, and that's all you want to do. I 100% respect it, support it, and that's awesome. Do it as best you can. That's all I ask of people.

So I just want instructors to be a positive role model for their learners and for everything that we stand for.

But actually, I've learned very early on not to assume that the person opposite you isn't an expert in the subject you're talking about, because you can sit at that test centre, you can have an ex GP on your right, an ex lawyer on your left, all wearing shorts and a T shirt, and then the other instructor that's there might have Had a background in rock music and they're all in that one place with the shared green badge and that unites us, possibly pink one, which I always think we devalue, that they have as much to bring to the table. It's not like when you're starting out in something because we're dealing with life skills and those people have life skills.

So do your pupils equally.

But I just think with instructors we so often assume that we have this lack of knowledge in the industry when actually what we've got is too much and it's too broad. Very rarely do you come across a driving instructor who hasn't got a good idea.

One of the things that we want to do with the ditc, we've finally got finished some badges that we're going to be allocating to different people. So there's a members badge, a founder members badge, there's going to be a CPD providers badge to kind of bring things together.

And one of them is a startup badge for someone's got an idea, will use your podcast as a perfect example that they want to set out and do it. That we want to be able to link them with people who can do the graphic design, who can do the intros and outros, that kind of thing.

So that you've got the tools you need to go and get it done rather than talk about it because we need those.

In the same way, when you come in and you get qualified as an ADI and you haven't been trained and therefore qualified as an accountant, a marketeer, an advertising expert, a social media expert, a counselor, whatever those other skill sets are, and they're huge.

An accountant, which has always been my failing, which is weird because I spent lockdown advising people about grants and I know the self assessment tax return backwards but my family found it hysterical as me stood there and I was genuinely first lockdown. It was 16 hour days putting stuff together, helping people.

The phone didn't stop and you know, it was great because I was, I felt like I was doing something I didn't have to focus on me. If I'd have stopped and focused on me, the world would have ended.

So I got to keep myself going that way and you know, yeah, that understanding of all of the skills that you need, you know, that is what a driving instructor is. So actually we understand it's an in joke if you like. We understand as an instructor we're not just anything.

The, the, you know, because actually a driving instructor is just someone who is paid to sit there while the person next to them drives and learns. Yeah, we know that there's no real evidence to show and this isn't saying that it's not true.

There's no evidence to show that driving instructors help the process. Potentially there's evidence to show that they don't. But that study hasn't been done.

So we are paid to sit there potentially because mum and dad don't want to. Now that's not the view that I hold, but it's a perfectly reasonable one.

What, you know, and I love it when I get a PDI who gets, sits in the car and they just suddenly go, do you know what? This isn't what I thought it was about. You know, it's a different world. It's not just about sitting there.

It's not because I'm good at driving, it's not because I enjoy driving. Because you're a professional passenger, you're not a driver.

And you're, you're going to sit there and you're going to support this person and you're going to be working with their heads and their feet and you're going to be trying to get the two to work together and then you're running a business because by default we're self employed. We're not naturally self employed people. We're not jumping out there and setting up businesses necessarily.

Some are, I have a habit of doing so, but I think we're self employed by default and therefore why would we have those levels of experience?

So I think it's the fact that we need those different hats, those different job roles and the fact that we come from backgrounds with massive experience. It's. Yeah, it's my in joke of just a driving instructor because I've never met someone who is, I'm waiting to.

Terry Cook: 00:35:01

I think what you've just spoke about there probably sums up exactly the premise behind this podcast in. There's going to be a hell of a lot of people that might listen to this and they're almost angered by what you're saying there.

Like, well, I'm not paid to, you know, to, to be a culture. I'm not doing this to, to counsel. I'm not, you know, it's.

And I think earlier on I mentioned going above and beyond and that's, that's my old mentality. You know, it's only really the past 18 months where I've, I've switched and I've started looking to develop myself. That used to be my mentality.

And I just think it, it's, it's fascinating that that Resistance. And that's kind of.

I say what this plaque is about, hoping that we can change a few of those, but more aimed at the people like I was and like I am now that are looking to find ways to change. But I'd be intrigued to know what you would say to those people now that are calling, essentially calling bullshit or what, what you're saying there.

Chris Bensted: 00:36:05

We've probably met and they probably already have. I welcome them and I enjoy the conversation. And do you know what? They've just proven themselves wrong because they're open to the conversation.

They're listening to the podcast, we hope that haven't hit stop. And actually everybody knows there's more to it. It's not what you thought it was at the beginning, and I haven't got to the final page yet.

I don't think it is what you think it is at the end. I think there's always the next step. But some of us take longer to take that step.

For me, and going back to what the DITC has been created for is, how do you find that if it's not there for you? Yeah, before you were doing this, this, this podcast, it didn't exist. So how can people find that help it? How do you join the dots?

You know, we've got some brilliant associations.

I've got a lot of time for the associations and, you know, I know them all quite well, you know, the people that are involved and we're not trying to be an association. It's one of the. It's easier to say what we're not a lot of the time. So we're not an association. We're not selling cpd.

It doesn't mean that we're not going to promote it and it doesn't mean we're not going to provide it at some point. Ian and I have run CPD courses, but what we're trying to do is give people a place to find the things.

So if your belief of what a driving instructor is, is someone who sits there like your instructor was, tells you how to do it until you get it right, and criticizes you for missing the mirror check every time, or more importantly, the blind spot check, why do we stick to Mirror Signal Maneuver and then say, but you didn't check your blind spot. It's not in Mirror Signal Maneuver. Why don't we. And my preference, look tell do and discuss what look is about and look tell do's.

I think it's awesome because it's limited LTD limited. So it's as simple as you can get it's also Learn to Drive ltd. Learn to Drive.

Look, includes the blind spot and includes the environment that you're in. So it's about discovery and I love it that it's about discovery. It's about what do you need to know to make the right decision?

Tell signal means indicate.

And we know that it's not about indicate because we've got brake lights, position, reverse lights and attitude of the car and speed and everything else. So it's about communicate. So make sure that you are communicating well.

Even if you're doing something stupid, make sure it's really obviously stupid because then everyone else will get out your way. So, look, tell. No one can spell manoeuvre. It's one of the 40 most misspelled words in the English language. I hate the word manoeuvre.

And none of your pupils use the word manoeuvre except for in a driving context. Do. Do is two letters. I can spell two letters and it's memorable.

Look, tell, do, why do we make it complicated, let alone going to MSPSL or MSPS gl, depending if you include the G. Yeah.

Terry Cook: 00:39:42

What?

Chris Bensted: 00:39:43

Who's thrown up?

Someone's thrown up alphabeti spaghetti across the page and said, right, we'll make that into a driving instructor's manual because we've got enough letters as it is. Apologies, we brought along DITC and added to. But we're going with the collective a lot of the time because it's not a set of letters.

But look, tell, do, let's keep it simple. And if what we're taught isn't what we're delivering, and if what we're delivering isn't learning to drive isn't actually what we.

What the pupil is doing at the end of it. They're learning to get to their friend's house. They're learning to get a job that is better than the one they would have got otherwise.

That's much bigger.

So for all of those people that do call bullshit on it, I appreciate that, I really do, and I've been there and I've realized that actually they need to find their truth for them to be able to move forward. And it might not be coaching, because coaching is a labeled product.

It might just be that they want to feel that they're engaging with their pupils better now. I might call that rapport. They don't. That's fine. I don't care.

You know, let's get it so that they can engage with their pupils better, because we know that we get on better. And if we get on better, we get better results. I'll take that. So they're proving me right by the fact that they're listening.

They are proving me right by the fact they care, and they're arguing about it. What it is, is our language isn't joining up, you know, so let's find a way that it does.

I hate the phrase coaching, absolutely detest it, because I don't think what we do is. And the seed. Remember Bob mentioned that on your podcast? When I started, I was a conversational instructor, and that's what I felt I did.

And then I discovered coaching, and I kind of went, oh, okay. That sort of fits in with my feeling. And then it was getting in the car, saying to your pupils, you know, what would you like to do today?

And I was like, they don't know because I haven't communicated well with them as to what the purpose is. Why are we here? So I started doing that more. I spoke to them and I said, what are you looking for out of this?

You know, what do you think a good driver is? Because actually, let's try and achieve that. And then if we can figure out what a good driver is, what would a good driver do? What are your worries?

You know, I'm worried about stalling. Good. Let's go and stall the car, because actually, it's not as scary as you think it is. Let's go and figure out what this clutch is.

What is your understanding of the world and how can we work with it? Rather than me trying to tell you my version of driving. And I now do the same thing with instructors.

I do the same thing with my theory training that, you know, we make so many assumptions. Go and keep doing those questions until you get the answers right isn't good enough. But the DVSA are using words that people haven't come across.

Have you ever asked someone to pull up next to the telegraph pole and got a blank look? It's pull up next to the tree with no leaves and branches. Oh, that thing.

You know, they're not words that are being used by the people we're teaching, so why should they understand them? I could teach in French, potentially. I don't speak French, but I'll give it a good go.

And there's no more reason that they should understand me than if I was teaching in English if I'm not using their language. So say the same for instructors, same for PDI's as well. Don't believe everything you're told. Argue with it.

Ask why, if there's Not a good enough, why then don't do it. But if there is a good enough, why take it on board and see what you think.

Terry Cook: 00:43:48

I mean, that's a really impassioned response. And I'm going to try and come back to a few prints once you said that.

But I'm going to mention this, this is obviously an audio podcast, but I'm going to get that clip of your expressions talking about mspsl, pull that out because there were some interesting expressions going on there. One thing I wanted to mention was going back to sort of right back to the beginning when we spoke about above and beyond.

And again, I think that's my perception because the perception is that like you said, we just teach people to drive. You get in wind, structure and then you're done. So for me, above and beyond is above that.

But in reality that's not that substandard in, in a lot of ways we should be doing what we're doing now and that, that should be the norm. What you're talking about should be the norm in reality. And I think that, and again, I include my old self in this.

The people teaching below that level are doing it, I think maybe through laziness. They don't know how to do it better than that. It's, it's a get out.

Chris Bensted: 00:44:56

Sometimes I, I think it's, it's that thing of when your pupil finds you, you know, an inquiry, they're not your pupil yet an inquiry phones you and they buy based on the inquire, Based on the three Ps, price, pass rate, personality. Do you sound nice on the phone? Because if you don't, why would they book pass rate?

Because that's what they're trying to achieve at that moment in time. That's what they think they're trying to achieve. And price, because that is important to them. But actually what they're asking is value.

And I will always sell on value.

And I will always say to them, you know, you say, I'm charging X amount for a lesson, I won't go down the price route, but I'm charging X amount for a lesson or I can get that for half that amount down the road. And you say, oh, what do they include in their lessons? And what's a driving lesson?

Isn't it, okay, so you know, burger from McDonald's is equivalent to a burger from Gordon Ramsay and you know, are the ingredients the same? Is the process the same? And is the satisfaction you're going to get at the end of it the same? Let's Compare like for like.

And I think it goes for instructors and it goes for pupils. We shouldn't judge people for not seeing that value. If we don't tell them what that value is, why should you know? Why should you?

So it's a lack of education, it's not our fault. That sounds like a really blaming statement. You're not educated. No. You haven't been given the opportunity yet to discover otherwise.

So I'll keep banging the drum. I'll, I will in a less on my soapbox way.

We'll set up a platform where between your lesson, come and have a look at the articles that we're popping onto the website and discover how you can use a dog training technique to improve your particularly male driver's ability to not get carried away on a faster road.

That is one of the articles that is on there came from an article that I read from a really well known dog trainer in America, looked at her technique and went, we can use that with drivers. So I repurposed it. How to get Prices Higher.

Lovely driving instructor staple, but actually not saying, you're not charging enough, saying, what do you think you're worth? What do you think your lesson is worth? Let's take the instructor out of the equation for him in it. What's the lesson worth? What's the value in it?

And what should people be paying for that kind of product? And you know, they're probably our top two at the moment articles, for want of a better phrase. And they're both, you know, five minute reads.

They're not, they're not pages and pages long because I haven't got the attention span to write a book. I've tried, I'll get to the end of the first chapter and I've given up. So, you know, an article is what you'll get and I don't, I don't care.

I don't object if people don't like it or do like it. My ego loves it when they, when they say it's brilliant. I won't lie, I love it when people go, do you know what?

I really enjoyed that because it makes it worthwhile. But I equally enjoy people saying I didn't like it if they tell me why, why didn't you like it? What is it that you didn't connect with?

Is it that you don't, You've never had a pupil that is adrenaline driven and you know, and is hard to control and they struggle to control themselves because I wasn't a boy racer. That wasn't me. Didn't enjoy driving, didn't like driving.

But I'll tell you what, temper wise, when I was younger, I really struggled until one day when I promise you, it was that flick of a switch that just changed me. And I just went, you can't live life like this. I need to change how I am. And I just switched. I changed overnight.

And when I talk to pupils in the car about it, if they have similar issues or they feel aggression in that way, I'll chat with them about it. And they're like, but you're the most chilled back, laid back person. Nothing's bothering you.

I've nearly killed us at three roundabouts and you're still going, yeah, be fine, don't worry, we'll get there. I'm here to back you up and stop it from going wrong. And yeah, that was a skill that I needed to learn.

So if it's not the skill that's right for you, maybe there's something that you can discover that is.

Terry Cook: 00:50:02

Yeah. And you know, during that you mentioned a couple of words. You mentioned. We mentioned a lot of words. No, you mentioned the words blame.

And I think criticize or criticism. And I think they're, they're key words because I listen to these podcasts back, obviously when I record or edit them.

And I always like to listen back as well because I find the listening to you guys afterwards is like listening to it again, new for me because I'm not involved in the conversation at that point and. But I hear myself then.

And at times I feel like I'm being really, really critical of our industry, what I say, and I can't even decide whether that's my intention or not sometimes because I think there is a lot of problems within the industry, but there's also a hell of a lot of good there.

So, you know, when I sit back and I say, you know these people that aren't putting the effort in or they're providing a 3 out of 10 service, well, there are people doing that. And I think that if you're offended by me saying that, you're probably someone that is providing a free out of 10 service.

So I found that quite interesting. But in fact, that leads me to the next point and this is going back somewhat.

You said previously, and I know you said it in Jesper about people hitting stop part way through the podcast.

Chris Bensted: 00:51:18

We can talk about them now. They've gone. They've gone. We can say what we like.

Terry Cook: 00:51:23

Well, I can see the data on when people stop listening and I listen back to. You mentioned the Bob Martin coaching podcast episode. I went back and looked at that and there's a significant drop off.

I think it's about 40 minutes in. It's like I can't remember, but a significant drop off. I went back and listened to it.

It's when he was talking about the school of mum and dad versus instructors and talking about how we're in not the wrong, but what we can do to improve, rather than blaming the school of mum and dad. And at that point people stopped listening. And I thought, that's. That's ridiculously telling.

So, you know, be interested to look back at this episode and see when people stop listening. I also just want to touch back on. On somebody said there about what a look, tell and do, because again, I. I find a lot of this.

I'm sure there's other instructors, you know, when I. When I say this stuff, I'm saying it almost as. As people listening rather than me, if that makes sense.

Because I'm sure there's other people that feel this. Well, they discover those things that you've just explained. I discover it by accident. It's like the look, tell, do thing.

I think I do somewhat similar. And it was boxing. I had a student come from another instructor. It was last year sometime, whatever that was. And she said to me, I can't remember.

Mirror, signal, maneuver. I said, why are you remembering it? Why try to remember it? You don't need to remember it. What are you doing? In a sense. And she's like.

I says, what is your mirror? What are you doing? She goes, well, I'm checking it safe. I said, right, what's the signal aspect? I'm telling people what I'm doing.

Yeah, and then what are you doing after that? She goes, well, then I'm doing it.

I said, right, so you're checking it safe, telling people what you're doing, and you're doing it, and it will like you could just see this, you know, flashy realization come across the face, no problem. And I've tried to incorporate that more since. And that was an accidental discovery. So I found it really interesting that you.

You were talking about that. Before we move on to the DITC proper. I do just want to touch on.

On your group because I know that you had one of, if not the first Facebook group for instructors.

Chris Bensted: 00:53:30

It was the first. I'm putting claim to that.

Terry Cook: 00:53:35

I mean, look, there are other places you've spoke about that, so don't want to go into too much detail on that. But I'm intrigued to know what initial if any problems you found with that.

Chris Bensted: 00:53:46

Two words, the problems were driving instructors. So interestingly it was communication.

It was taking people who should, and I'm not convinced that everyone does, but should be good at communicating and putting them into the written word. Humor, sarcasm does not translate well in writing.

And I got a reputation because this was before my face was, you know, was as known as, as it has been because I hadn't really discovered things like the conferences that go on and you know, so I was just a Facebook name on a screen. I think it was a PDI as well at the time. But you know, I've always liked to think big of myself. What I was writing.

I had this image of being 60 plus and having no sense of humour and I love a laugh and a joke. I just identified that in communicating in text form on, on Facebook.

The second you try to be funny and I've made the mistake myself, the second try to be funny or sarcastic, it doesn't translate. So the issues were personality clashes because people read what they wanted to, they heard what they wanted to and they. People don't.

We're self employed, we're our own bosses. They don't like being told off in advert.

So you've got to have a set of rules which you would think instructors like because we've got the highway code. We like our rules. This is how we work. We work inside a system, a system that we understand and works.

They don't like that when it's someone else's rules and people don't like being challenged because we're gods of our own cars. So you know that instructor mindset and this was pre coaching as well. So I think coaching has actually softened that a little bit.

People are happier to have a debate or a discussion. More importantly a discussion. Then it was an argument, it was me versus you.

So we work through that and what is notable and it's not just me that says it, you know, my admin team, Carol Thomas and Johnny and Mike previously as well. He's not in the industry anymore but you know, they've been awesome. Don't get paid for it. That's the other thing. We don't get paid to do it.

It's as if you're doing a paid job so people can abuse you, but you're not. It's all voluntary.

And the number of hours and it was always on a night, you know, the one night out with my other half, it'll kick off and I'd be sitting there trying to resolve an issue and you know she's a godsend because she's put up with me for, you know, doing all that. But the balance social media is 247 what we've seen time and time again.

Our group has survived when others haven't and we haven't had the as much inviting and we've actually worked through and found solutions to. A hundred percent, 100% is about communication. It's about how you word things. It's not about what you say.

You can be absolutely vile towards somebody as long as you say it in a way that is clear, concise and they can understand and they'll choose not to like you, but they won't necessarily cut you off because as long as you put you've made your position clear, then they will understand it. So everything is about communication.

And I remember when my now 10 year old came along and driving instructors stepped up, instructors I didn't know got in touch and said, do you need any tests covered? You know, that was my first real insight into how awesome the community is.

But we had a naming ceremony for him where we family and friends came round and it was kind of a what one thing would you like him to have through his life? And I said good communication because with that you can solve anything. You know, it really comes down to the ability for us to interact and get on.

And that for me is, is where social media goes wrong. Because Instagram people are communicating something that is not true. It is a chosen snapshot of their life. It's not reality.

Facebook is very often in words, Twitter as well. Anyone that can describe their life in 140 characters is better than I am communicating.

I've never figured out haikus, but it's that ability to communicate is key. And every single problem that's been on Facebook has been because of a lack of communication.

I have, I often quote an instructor who is no longer with us, Liz Sheridan, who she hated me, absolutely hated me. But I reached out and I said look, I get it, yeah, we don't have to like each other, but let's, let's have a, have a dialogue.

And we ended up being really good mates behind the scenes. You know, she sent me a screenshot and go look, they're talking about you. Or you know, because she knew that I had a sense of humor about it.

And we did that by good communication.

And you know, there's lots of instructors who hated me to begin with and we've actually found a really good working relationship and that they'll get in touch and say that you'll be interested in this or I'd like to know your take because it'd be different from mine. Yeah.

Terry Cook: 01:00:06

Did you ever find, like you say you've been. There's been talked about, there's been some abuse thrown your way and that kind of stuff?

Chris Bensted: 01:00:13

Yeah.

Terry Cook: 01:00:14

Was there ever a time you found yourself holding back or did you always just fit? Were you able to almost shrug that off, or did it ever affect you, or.

Chris Bensted: 01:00:24

Yeah, I definitely get it when it winds me up. I've learned not to hit send. There's a lot of massive amounts of messages that I've written and not sent.

That's always been my thing, is take a step back, read it and then decide if you want to send it. Do not put anything in writing that you wouldn't stand up and say in court. And remember that humour doesn't work.

Even though you think you've written it really well. Somebody will misunderstand and I still fall into that trap. I love a joke. Or, you know, just.

Just pointing things out to someone about the way they've written something. It's just not the way they read it. So, yeah, I think, yeah.

So often I've done it and I've bitten, but what I've also done is apologised afterwards and said, you know what? I shouldn't have said it. I shouldn't have responded that way. Which, again, is good communication, isn't it?

We're all allowed to make dicks of ourselves at some point. We've all done it, you know, that's all fair enough. The. It's. Then what you do after that, you know, it's about managing that. That. That relationship.

And we do that in the car. We do that between each other, waving to other instructors.

That's worse than having a go at me on Facebook is when you know, and I appreciate if you're doing an emergency stop, don't do that. I get it. I just assume people are doing that or they're busy doing other things. So I don't take it personally.

But, you know, the instructor, the one instructor that never waves to anybody, I'm just like, do you know what? We're all in the same. Well, what is it that Covid was. We're all in different boats, but in the same ocean. But, you know, we are.

We're all in the same mess together. Let's at least just share a bit of a knowing look.

I was thinking, it's the same as when I see another bloke sat outside the women's changing rooms in a Shop, you know, while they're busy trying the clothes on or such. And you see that look between the two of you, I've been here for an hour as well and I've had enough.

And we both know we're going to go back to that first outfit in the first shop and that's the one that's going to get bought. And it's that just those knowing looks. And there's plenty of other examples. That's just one of mine. But it is. Yeah, though knowing looks.

And I just think we can share that as an instructor. The in jokes.

Terry Cook: 01:03:01

Yeah, that's where masks are harder at the minute. It's harder to the face covered. So, yes, having. I'm one for nodding. I'm very much a nodder. If I feel that a wave is appropriate, I wear.

But, you know, if you've got particularly nervous students, sometimes I won't. So I'm not. But like now it's like I don't feel like this is noticeable. So, yes.

Chris Bensted: 01:03:24

Adrianne Carter, who is the face whisperer, I don't know if you've come across her. She's well worth checking out. It's got a really good relationship with instructors and I went on her course for face reading.

It's based on the TV series. Lie To Me was based on Paul Ekman's work looking at micro expressions in faces which are universal.

And she's like the UK version, a version of the guy in Lie To Me.

And it's fascinating, but it's one of the best courses I've been on, which really helped with my instructing and my life and everything else, but was nothing to do with being an instructor. And it wasn't about reading my pupils faces, it was actually accurately assessing the person who's come the other way.

When my pupil went, yeah, that was fine. And I mean, that person was angry. There was actual anger showing on their face.

So, you know, that's the response that you've caused and being able to assess and when someone comes towards you telling, you know, are they angry? Are they upset? Are they, you know, do they find it funny? That's really helped. The mask, as you say, has caused a massive barrier.

She's got a PDF that sort of shows, you know, how you can read people with just their eyes. Yeah. Well, worth a look. And something I always get on the DITC site, actually. But yes, have to get that one up there.

Terry Cook: 01:04:52

Speaking of ditc, which is the Driver, Instructor and Trainers Collective.

Chris Bensted: 01:04:58

Yes, yes, close enough. Anyway.

Terry Cook: 01:05:00

Yeah, I'll say that I'M going to open this up a little bit, very broad. Talk to me about it, tell me what it is, tell me what the purpose is, tell me how it started. I know we've dipped in and out, specifically around it.

Chris Bensted: 01:05:15

When. When you come into the industry, we've invented something that we're calling pre PDIs.

You know, they've always existed, we've just given them a label. Because when you're looking to become a driving instructor, it's really hard to find something that isn't sales pattern or possibly DVSA fact.

But that's just the minimum standards as we've established and the criteria for passing. They don't tell the dbsa don't. Because it's not their job and I don't expect them to.

They don't tell you how to do the job, they don't tell you that actually, you know, yes, you need to be able to deliver instruction, whatever that means, but they don't say, and you need to be able to market yourself and you need to be able to, you know, you need to be able to work with people on stuff that isn't necessarily driving because it will affect their driving. Some of the stuff's touched on in the DVSA book, Better Drivers as Better Driver Training.

We did object slightly to the name, but in that book they talk about the human factors. Doesn't get covered in the information that's put out there. So you get promise the earth, work the hours that you want.

Laughable, you know, earn 30 to 40,000 pounds a year. It's not impossible, but, you know, good luck getting there.

Especially when you first start out and all of these things that are, you know, real sales patter challenges. How do you find the truth behind it? And now you can't even say to a local instructor, can I come and shadow a couple of lessons?

Because that's difficult. Not impossible, but difficult. So trying to find that out and then we all get biased and we all hate what went wrong for us.

So you get a lot of independence that, you know, if you mention a national franchise, you know, they're all evil. It's not as long as you know what you're going into. Read the contract is my biggest thing. People, don't.

We, you know, it's that thing of when you get an app or a bit of software and it says, you know, please read the terms. Yeah, you just click accept. We do that and we're a business, we can't afford to do that.

But the same with pupils we work on trust it's all right until it goes wrong. And Covid seen a lot of going wrong with contracts and franchises and situations and cars and all sorts.

So we were very aware that it's a badge of honour. If you're not. If you haven't made that mistake or one of those mistakes, you're not a driving instructor. We laugh about it. Again, it's in jokes.

But actually, we should have a platform so that we can find information, we can discover what's really out there, we can find the tools that are going to benefit us and we know where to go.

And it's not necessarily going to be the place with the answer, it will be the place with the signpost to the answer, or, you know, it will join the dots, the industry middleman. So that's. That's largely what the DITC is. There's the website, which is, you know, free access, might get a members area. There's. There's.

There's one set up by a driving instructor who has made our website because that's what he also does. We're keen on engaging with industry expertise from outside of the industry as well, and we're working with all of those things.

There is, as you know, there's the members level as well. So what we're also offering is a subscription, keeping it really cheap, £6amonth.

And one of the first and biggest success stories was that we negotiated with Totem, who used to be NUS Extra. But basically it's a student card, because that's the language that people understand.

We don't care what it's called, it's a student card to get discount, to recognise professional learning, that as a driving instructor, on your lesson, you are continuously learning what works and what doesn't. As we said earlier, it's not failure, it's learning. And instructors are doing that constantly and to meet their criteria.

We've explained that process and they have accepted that process, that as long as you're reflecting for two and a half hours worth of lessons, not for two and a half hours, but for two and a half hours worth of lessons a week, you meet the criteria to be a professional learner. Instructors are doing that for far more.

PDIs are definitely doing it so you can get a student card as part of the membership and we're saving more than it's costing to be a member on, you know, almost a monthly basis with the savings that are available and we want to do more of that. So there's going to be savings and benefits for the membership and, you know, there's going to be exclusive stuff coming through.

We had a brilliant meeting this morning with a company that have an app that we're going to be putting out in the next, probably a couple of weeks.

Once we sort out a small print of opportunities we might have achieved my holy grail, which is a free cup of coffee every week for driving instructors or tea or hot chocolate or whatever you want, but. Or vegan, whatever the alternative is, sorry, I know your market so, you know, offering support and benefits, offering opportunities as well.

We want to represent what the industry is there. To quote another NLP presupposition, the map is not the territory, which is something took me a long time to understand.

But your how you see things and how I see things are our perspectives, but they are not necessarily what is actually there, it's our perspective of what's there. So the industry hasn't got a map, you know, they've got how individual instructors see it and how it is sold to us through a lens.

But we haven't got a map, we haven't got a place we can go to.

And go right, this is this, this is this, you know, this is the company or companies that provide diary, you know, alternatives to a paper diary, you know, digital alternatives.

We haven't got, you know, associations, you know, go to that NASP are the one that are pushed, but there are others and if you don't know what is there, how can you choose what's best for you?

You know, I have a 10 year old who doesn't like eating, you know, trying new foods, but he has just discovered curry and you know, I now accept, I don't need to get a DNA test done, but he is, he, he, he, he was, he was born on curry as well because both my other half and I are big curry fans. But he, if he, if he doesn't try it, how's he ever going to know if he likes it?

So it's not I don't like that or I don't need that, it's let's go and discover what it's about. And for me that's what we're trying to create. Whether it'll be exactly that in a year's time, I don't know.

Because what we want to do is to represent the industry and we're not the industry, we're just in and myself just two people inside of it. The more members we get, the more we can listen and we can introduce things that are going to be of use to people.

But what we're trying to do is not to be an association. We love associations. We think all instructors should be a member of at least one because they are a way of connecting.

But we, you know, we want to deliver that opportunity to engage and be an open door.

Terry Cook: 01:13:57

I recently started using something called linktree and for those that don't know, it's just something where you put everything of yours. So for example, all my podcasts are on there and it's got all links for Apple, Spotify, Google, all that. So you click on the links, right?

Then pick whatever one you want. It feels to me like the DITC is like linktree with more detail. There's a bit of that there.

Chris Bensted: 01:14:21

I'll take that. Yeah, I know Linktree because my other half is TikTok famous.

And Linktree is very big on TikTok because you've got one line to say how to contact you. This is my YouTube or this is my Twitter or Instagram. And we all know we have multiple contact points.

So linktree is a really good way of saying, all right, here's my contact to my multiple contact points. And what, what I love, and I'm a big.

This week I've become a big believer in this going forward is that all instructors should have that, all driving schools should have that, all associations should have that. And I think we're gonna, we're gonna advocate that because then you can manage your links.

If you stop engaging with Facebook, you can take Facebook off of that. So you don't miss those opportunities, but you give people other ones.

If you find a new platform and they don't always work out, you can add those as well. So, yes, I think that's a lovely way of describing it, and it is. Hopefully we're also bringing some flavor to it as well of the different areas.

So people will discover new opportunities through that. But I think having that, the signposting to other places is definitely what we'd like to do. Have you discovered what three words?

Terry Cook: 01:16:01

No.

Chris Bensted: 01:16:02

So what three words? They've divided the whole world up into. I think they're 3 meter squares, but you know, into squares.

And each location has three words that is a exact reference for that place. So your front doorstep will have three words associated with it.

Unfortunately, they took all the funny ones out because I was desperate to find, you know, find some. Something thoroughly inappropriate to use as my example on my write up. But I think as an instructor, what.

Three words is a brilliant tool because if you've got pupils that live in the middle of nowhere, they know no one can find their House, but they don't bother telling you why. So if we all have on our link tree a.

This is my, what, three words for the location that I'm gonna, you know, that I meet people at in a particular place or. And you have what, three words for your pupils that you can type it in and it will take you straight to that place.

And yeah, it's being used more and more, so I think there's another one there. It's not quite the same for us because we're roaming, we're all over the place.

But when you're trying to find someone or if you're arranging to meet someone at the local shopping centre, you can give them a very specific point to go, and I will meet you at the Cone Duck Donkey. So they know exactly where you're at. And if you're saying to them, I'm by the exit and there's three exits, we can avoid those problems.

So that's where I'm meeting you.

Terry Cook: 01:17:49

Yeah, I'll give that one a nausea. The.

At the moment, the people that I'm getting on this podcast are people that I endorse or that I've used or that I believe in or are showcasing something that I'm an advocate of. Going forward, I may change that and have some fun to get some people that completely disagree. But at the minute, it's. It's about things I endorse.

And I sort of accidentally stumbled across the ditc and I was mightily impressed by it. Mightily impressed with everything you've just said.

I feel that, like you said, I think you use the word signpost and I think I feel that that's the one. If I'm just talking Facebook group for a second, that's if now I had a question of I wanted to find something, yours is the place I would go.

And it sounds like that's the. The goal you were aiming for above everything else. So, yeah, I would recommend to anyone at the very least that they check it out.

But there's two things that you said there to me that I think are game changers. I really do. And again, that's almost getting into the taxidermy tagline. This podcast, again, the game changes, but I think that's home card. The.

The idea that you've. You've managed to get this and I just find that bonkers. You 100% right in what you're saying.

We are learning, we are students, we are developing all time. But I would never have put that two and two together. That two and two to me makes 47 that I don't get that.

But I think the fact you've done that is phenomenal. And also the idea of pre PDIs, I love that term, I really do. And just touching back on that for a second, do you.

We spoke before about above and beyond not being accurate. Our standards should be higher. Then if you want to go above and beyond that, that's a different scenario.

Pre PDIs, is that the opportunity to instill that? So you're coming into the industry with this? No, no. These are our standards. No one can see this. I'm raising my hands. These aren't our standards.

These are our standards. That's the opportunity to do it.

Chris Bensted: 01:19:53

Yeah.

I think it's the same with learners as well, that, you know, what we'd love to be able to do is to get into schools and deliver some kind of understanding of the process of learning to drive, you know, to work with those, with people as they come through, you know, starting with education, of driving around with kids in the car. The same thing goes for coming into the industry. You know, people are coming into the industry because they want to.

How many of those people then say to you, oh, yeah, I've been thinking about this for years. I've looked at it a few times. We want to get them then.

Not when they phone me up and has happened numerous times during the last year, particularly where they phone up and they say, I've signed a contract with xyz. I'm hoping there isn't an xyz. If so, just random title, I promise.

You never know in this industry, but I've signed a contract with these people and it's not what I thought it was going to be. Or I've now realized that I'm trapped in a.

In a contract that even if I fail and, you know, by not passing that part three, three times, the training provider hasn't got me to the standard that they promised they would get me to. If I fail that part three, I've still got to pay the franchise for the next three years because that's the contract that I've signed.

Firstly, no, you shouldn't have signed that contract. Yes, you should have read that contract.

But we've all been there, you know, if we can get in before they've signed and say, these are the questions to be asking. These are the potential pitfalls. These are the things, the ingredients you need to know to decide whether you're going to like it or not.

You know, they're the ones that are going to work for you possibly, but wouldn't work for someone else or vice versa. And you know, national franchises can be amazing for some instructors. They deliver exactly what they need. Awesome, you know, all for it.

If it's with a franchise that is capping your earnings and you are not able to get the best out of that for you as an individual and therefore you're not delivering the best for your pupils because you're working yourself ragged. You know, work smarter, not harder. I'm inherently lazy. People go, how'd you get so much done?

I've got a really short attention span with things, so I like bits, I like bits of stuff because then it keeps me interested and that, the job does that for me and I like finding easier ways to do things, which involves hard work.

But it gets better as it goes along and you know, yeah, if we can get into people at that point and say, yeah, there are opportunities, there are things to look out for, but we'll be honest, it's not all roses, then what better time to get them on board? And that benefits instructors because the quality goes up.

It benefits pupils, it benefits trainers, especially the independent trainers, the individual ones out there who are fighting against the mass marketing machines of the likes of Red aa, bsm, Bill Plant, who if you Google, they're the ones that come up at the top.

Yeah, it's really hard for us as two audit trainers who are delivering really bespoke and one to one PDI training that is designed at creating a driving instructor and not just passing a test to get that conversation to say, have you considered whether you want a training scheme that continues after your part three that supports you as an instructor, whether you go independent or whether you come with a driving school doesn't matter. We'll mentor you through the process. So you've got someone you can pick up the phone to and that's the other side of what we want the DITC to be.

You've got someone you can pick up the phone to. You know, if it's me, I don't always know the answer, but I hopefully know someone who does.

Terry Cook: 01:24:17

I, I love that ethos. And then just to sort of tie a bow on the, the ditc, what's. If you could set an end goal? Is there an end goal in mind or is it open?

Let's see what happens. If you could take it anyway, where would you take it?

Chris Bensted: 01:24:35

Ian would say world domination, but that's just because he made that. He made the Lego Death Star at Christmas or his birthday one, the other.

But I think what I Want is for the industry to be working for instructors and pupils to achieve life. Life goals and life skills so that we're moving away from minimal standards.

Terry Cook: 01:25:06

Yeah.

Chris Bensted: 01:25:07

So it's about the maximizing. You know, it's that reach the stars and you might reach. Might reach the moon rather than go, what's the bare minimum that I need to get away with?

I dread the day that they bring in a minimum number of hours or a set amount of money for a lesson. Because actually, you're capping things. We never achieved anything by saying we'll do the minimum. Yeah. You know, by putting a cap on things.

I love the fact everybody does it differently. I don't want everybody to be the same, but I want us to be able to embrace the fact that everybody does it differently.

Terry Cook: 01:25:45

Cool. Now, in your group, I asked if anyone had any questions for you.

Now, there were some interesting ones, but I've taken up a lot of your time already, so I'm only going to ask one. Okay. What three words would you use to describe Ian Barrett?

Chris Bensted: 01:26:04

Oh, that's really, really difficult.

Terry Cook: 01:26:07

Are they the three words really, really difficult?

Chris Bensted: 01:26:11

He is that. That would be perfect. But I, you know, I think, oh, it's four. I'm trying to get it down to three. It's not quite good English, but. Oh, that works.

My total opposite. Right. And because of that, that's why we work so well, because we find a happy medium, we challenge each other and we do that and get on quite well.

I married him. So, you know, married to him or.

Terry Cook: 01:26:49

Married him and someone else.

Chris Bensted: 01:26:51

I married him and someone else, so. But a lot of people thought we were going to marry each other, so we thought we'd at least prove the heart. Right. And I got to. With.

Along with the bride's sister, we got to host the ceremony and do all of that, which was great. So it was good, fun and lovely to be part of. But there's even a picture of me cutting the cake with him, I think.

But, yeah, I think, yeah, my total opposite. And I say that with a hint of respect, but I won't admit that.

Terry Cook: 01:27:36

The last question, then, if you're leaving this episode now, what one piece of advice. What one tip. What words of wisdom would you leave for instructors or PDIs? Now?

Chris Bensted: 01:27:49

I'll go with two things. The first one is read the contract before you sign it, because I think that solves a lot of problems in our industry.

And the other one is be open to change.

Terry Cook: 01:28:06

Awesome. I think wise words there on both parts with those ones. Right. So where can people find you? I will put all your details in the show notes.

So if anyone's listening wants to go check them, then there'll be links. Well, so I can go straight to you, but where can people find you? Where can they find the ditc? And is there anything else you want to promote?

Chris Bensted: 01:28:26

I haven't yet got the link tree sorted so I can't use that.

But for finding me personally, Facebook is always a good one but Google me and I come up somewhere but the DITC is the best place for people to go as instructors. So it's the DITC. Allisone word.co.uk and you know you can get us for everything else through there. So that's the hub, that's the whole point.

So go there and you'll find the other places if you need to.

Terry Cook: 01:29:00

Awesome. Well, thank you for your time today Chris. It's been an absolute pleasure.

Chris Bensted: 01:29:04

I've enjoyed it. Thank you for the opportunity.

Terry Cook: 01:29:13

So I'm sure you all enjoyed that one.

Chris is not one who's frightened to give his opinion, so it's always good to listen to what he's got to say because he's not going to mince his words. I like his approach.

He's taught me a few things today about maybe things I was a little bit scared to do on lessons but now I'm just gonna fully commit to doing. It's giving me a little bit more self belief talking to him and hopefully it'll give you a little bit more self belief.

Leave just listening to him as always. If you've got any feedback, be sure to get in touch with me or Chris.

All in the contact notes are in the show notes so you can head over and click the link to get in touch with us if you're enjoying the episodes. If you're listening anywhere like Apple, make sure you leave us a nice little five star review and maybe even some glowing words of praise.

So yeah, I wish you all a very good week and stay safe. So thank you for listening today.

If you've enjoyed this podcast, make sure you click subscribe wherever you're listening so that the next one will drop straight into your podcast feed. If you want to get in touch with a show, head over@tcdrive.co.uk and get in touch with me by any method over there.

And remember, let's just keep raising standards and stay safe.